Why do Driving Aids slow you down?

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When looking at the online time trials, the best drivers don't use any driving aids. I wonder why that is? Is it possible to driver faster without them or do the best drivers just enjoy driving without them?

For my part, I don't seem to get any faster when disabling the driving aids. On the contrary, it slows me down a couple of seconds per lap on Fuji with the LM GT. Why is it that other drivers seem to go faster without aids?
 
Racing on the edge to shave of those seconds is not safe, it's racing on the limit with squeeling tires, grip losing and coming back, and all those other things that make it thrilling and fast...

Driving aids keeps you away from that limit and imo is therefore not usefull, turned it off since the GT2 days. You shouldn't even questioning that! Just turn it all off and practice practice!!!
 
Turn one aid off and once you're faster than you were with that aid on, turn another aid off. Eventually you'll be much faster with them all off. They rob you of power and control of the car.
 
Of course you will go slower. When those aids work like they are suppose to they reduce throttle when wheel slip. It is possible to go almost as fast as those guys with the TCS is set on 1 but anything beyond that will slow you down. They work just like in your 'real' car. :)

If you want to remove them from your driving experience do it slowly! Each day you race take the Stability management down a point. And take a point from TCS down a point. And just remember to slow down in the right place and pick the throttle up in the right place.
 
I think it's the mentality and skill driving without assists provides, if you ask me. Could I drive faster without the assists? Likely. But I have this sense of skill and accomplishment from doing it without, not to mention that being forced to learn how to do it the hard way, you're naturally going to perform better than someone who's done it the easier way, you get what I'm saying?
 
When looking at the online time trials, the best drivers don't use any driving aids. I wonder why that is? Is it possible to driver faster without them or do the best drivers just enjoy driving without them?
It's very much possible to be faster without driving aids - in fact, it's almost mandatory to turn them off to be fast.

Stability control should be turned all the way off all the time. It interferes with your understanding of what the suspension is actually doing under the car. It's like trying to tie your shoes when your hands are numb.

I don't have GT5:P yet, but I'll give an example from GT4. I bought a used Integra Type R, added a few parts, and headed out for Sears Point (Infineon). If you're familiar with the track, at the very top of the hill is a fairly sharp right turn which apexes right at the crest of the hill.

Normally, front-wheel-drive cars like the ITR tend to understeer a bit. In my usual attack at Sears Point, I turn into this corner before the top of the hill, fairly aggressively, and count on the suspension unloading as the car crests the hill to let the back end slide out a little and rotate the car through the turn.

In my hurry, I forgot to turn off any of the driving aids. I turned in on the upslope, where the front suspension is loaded, and waited for the crest to unload the car so it would rotate... except that as soon as it did, the stability control assumed the rotation was oversteer (spinning out). So it applied the left front brake in order to stop the right-turn rotation, and added some throttle in order to transfer weight to the rear of the car for better traction.

This of course immediately resulted in the car understeering directly off the outside of the corner exit and into the grass. So even though the car was doing precisely what I wanted it to do, the stability control interfered with my driving and slowed me down. It doesn't always put you off the course, but it slows you down a bit at nearly every corner, and that adds up a lot.

Traction control is not as bad, but almost. The only traction control I ever use is at the very lowest setting in the most highly-powered cars, and usually not even then. Traction control prevents wheelspin by cutting the throttle for you. The higher the setting, the more it cuts the throttle. It is obvious why this slows you down if you can manage to control the throttle yourself. And if you don't have that skill yet, relying on traction control will prevent you from ever learning it.
 
Thanks for the replys guys.
It does make sense that the driving aids will slow you down when it forces the car to do something you didn't want it to do (as Duke explained above).

I'm trying to tone down the driving aids and with some cars the difference is hardly noticable (probably with most of the 4WD). Others (MR) are much more difficult because of the take off oversteer... But I must admit, the back breaking out is a lot of fun!
 
Thanks for the replys guys.
It does make sense that the driving aids will slow you down when it forces the car to do something you didn't want it to do (as Duke explained above).

I'm trying to tone down the driving aids and with some cars the difference is hardly noticable (probably with most of the 4WD). Others (MR) are much more difficult because of the take off oversteer... But I must admit, the back breaking out is a lot of fun!

I think you can see a huge difference with aids on and off with the slower cars, the ford focus and the like. Ive found when I suggested people turn off the aids, they have ended up winning races they couldnt even do in the C-class and B-class events. Especially ASM, without it, you can finally full throttle around the faster corners without being held back.
 
I always turn AIDS off. More control on turns. I even now turn of ABS. I like to have control on what I do, and not to blame the Computer if I do something wrong.
 
if you compare it to gt4 its a huge difference...the asm in gt5 works less restricted. thats how i feel it.
 
Always raced with them on, until GT5:P :)

Haven't turned them on, unless for a very very hard car that can be uncontrollable.
 
I think driving aids only slow you down if you are actually a good driver to begin with. I admit I suck at driving games for the most part and I will run a far faster lap time with the aids at 1 then I will with the aids off just because the car will stay in control better for me. I know I will never get the top time but at least I won't end up flying backwards into a wall. I also never turn the ABS off since I can't seem to figure out the braking correctly no matter how hard I try.

The only time I turn the aids off is if I get a burning desire to figure out how to drift or something.
 
I did a test last night, I drove the Ford GT at Suzuka with all AIDS off except for ABS at 1, then I drove it with TCS at 4 and one of the steering AIDS turned on.

Both laps were near identical, around 2'09.5, but the lap with the AIDS turned on was much easier...
 
But was it anywhere near as satisfying? :sly:

Driving without the AIDS was much more satisfying, but IMO it doesn't give you as big of an advantage as it should. Online I'm constantly getting hit exiting corners by guys in 4 wheel drive cars like the Evolution X who most likely have TCS turned on. I'm babying the GT around the track and they're just slinging their car everywhere with ease

In NASCAR 2003 by Papyrus turning all AIDS off on the roadcourses was worth 2 or more seconds a lap, as you could brake 50 or more meters later if you didn't use ABS. Also the traction control really bogged you down, and the stability control in the game slowed you down much more in the corners.

In GT5:P you may gain .5 a second around a track like Suzuka without AIDS in the Ford GT.

Bring on private rooms with custom settings
 
^ Which is why I liked the Forza 2 rooms. Not that the game was great (We all know who the king is), but I could lock down the settings, ghost car for the non-drivers who used you as a guardrail, and play like that. If you wanted to play with me and my friends, it was fine, just so you knew the rules are clear before hand. No excuses, no bull, may the better driver (or car) win.

You would think a good calculation of what your setting were with respect to physics and assists, and it would give you a slight credit bonus... But it doesn't...
 
Driving without the AIDS was much more satisfying, but IMO it doesn't give you as big of an advantage as it should. Online I'm constantly getting hit exiting corners by guys in 4 wheel drive cars like the Evolution X who most likely have TCS turned on. I'm babying the GT around the track and they're just slinging their car everywhere with ease

In NASCAR 2003 by Papyrus turning all AIDS off on the roadcourses was worth 2 or more seconds a lap, as you could brake 50 or more meters later if you didn't use ABS. Also the traction control really bogged you down, and the stability control in the game slowed you down much more in the corners.

In GT5:P you may gain .5 a second around a track like Suzuka without AIDS in the Ford GT.

Bring on private rooms with custom settings

Yeah I agree it SHOULD give you a bigger advantage than it does. But I like the challenge of driving online with AIDS off. Its much easier to make mistakes, which, as frustrating as it can be sometimes, can make things more exciting. Leading the race from start to finish can get kind of boring sometimes. :lol:
 
Unless you have problems with throttle control, you'd be best off with them disabled because they kill you in turns. In GT4, I use it on high powered road cars (Speed 12, Nardo, ZZII etc.) because my throttle skillz aren't good enough with a DS2.
 
I never use the aids because you can't feel the car. Its like your playing need for speed or ridge racer. The cars just seem unresponsive and sluggish with the aids on to me. Plus you can't push the car to its limit. The ABS aid did come in handy, so i did use it some in GT4. Especially when i was using my Buick GN, seemed like the brakes would lock up so fast on that thing. Only time i would say use the aids are if you aren't a good driver and you keep spinning out with them on and just can't get it. But at least try it for a month, you might actually gain allot of skill.
 
I think driving aids only slow you down if you are actually a good driver to begin with. I admit I suck at driving games for the most part and I will run a far faster lap time with the aids at 1 then I will with the aids off just because the car will stay in control better for me.
But, Joey, what you're doing here is preventing you from ever learning to drive better or stay in control.

Having the aids on is like playing a game of Post Office - you tell the controls what to do, the controls tell the driving aids what to do, and the driving aids tell the wheels what to do. An awful lot is lost in the translation.

How can you ever learn how to drive accurately if your inputs are filtered through a black box before they go into effect? You can't know the cause and effect, so you can't learn from your mistakes.
 
But, Joey, what you're doing here is preventing you from ever learning to drive better or stay in control.

Having the aids on is like playing a game of Post Office - you tell the controls what to do, the controls tell the driving aids what to do, and the driving aids tell the wheels what to do. An awful lot is lost in the translation.

How can you ever learn how to drive accurately if your inputs are filtered through a black box before they go into effect? You can't know the cause and effect, so you can't learn from your mistakes.

Whoa, whoa, whoa! Disagreeing while providing respectful rebuttal in a friendly way?! I must be lost, someone point me in the direction of the internet, please! :)

But that's a good point. With the assists it doesn't feel so much as driving, it's sort of brings out what all racing games are, and that's correct stick/wheel movements coupled with slight button presses at appropriate times. While the same can easily be said about driving assist free, it does add to the challenge, and you notice less and less that all you're doing is gas, break, turn LOL!!

A good demonstation is just how boring it is to play in AT after using MT for so long. You're so adjusted to it that when the option to shift isn't present, the game somehow feels only half there, and it's not long before you're bored to tears!
 
But, Joey, what you're doing here is preventing you from ever learning to drive better or stay in control.

Having the aids on is like playing a game of Post Office - you tell the controls what to do, the controls tell the driving aids what to do, and the driving aids tell the wheels what to do. An awful lot is lost in the translation.

How can you ever learn how to drive accurately if your inputs are filtered through a black box before they go into effect? You can't know the cause and effect, so you can't learn from your mistakes.

If I'm not having fun with a game I don't want to play it, spinning out and trying to learn isn't my idea of a good time. I'm not great at driving games, nor do I really care to be, they just off some sort of entertainment and allow me to play around with car I will probably never be able to drive.

If I'm going to learn driving I'm going to take my real vehicle and take a real driving school since that can help me quite a bit more then some video game.
 
Never use driving aids on GT, never have, apart from one click of traction control on real beasts. ASC is really annoying and doesn't let you drift in a controlled and speedy way, and most cars you need to slide on the limit.
 
I too have left them off since what, GT2. It's more fun and you are forced to learn car control at a more extensive level.

It's alot more challenging with the MR/RR cars, for this reason I am breaking out my old Wheel to get a better level of precision in my driving.

If you leave them off all the time and on Pro. Physics, you will eventually become a more proficient driver.

Chris
 
If I'm not having fun with a game I don't want to play it, spinning out and trying to learn isn't my idea of a good time.

Funny, that is the very definition of my idea of a good time. :lol: I love to keep trying until I master a particular car. The feeling of satisfaction is so much greater when you can drive it flawlessly with no computer assistance.
 
Funny, that is the very definition of my idea of a good time. :lol: I love to keep trying until I master a particular car. The feeling of satisfaction is so much greater when you can drive it flawlessly with no computer assistance.

Plus, driving with the aids on all the time you WILL be slower than the good drivers with them off. If you want to be competitive you have to learn to handle the cars properly.
 
It is still just a game for me, nothing more. If I'm not good at it but still manage to have a good time then the money has been well spent.
 
If I'm not having fun with a game I don't want to play it, spinning out and trying to learn isn't my idea of a good time.
Correct, driving school will be more than any video game ever could be. However, I think you're selling yourself short by driving a decent console simulator as if it was an arcade game. It's not all that hard when you're not second-guessing the aids all that time, and I guarantee it will have a positive impact on your real driving. Not a huge impact, but a positive one.
Plus, driving with the aids on all the time you WILL be slower than the good drivers with them off. If you want to be competitive you have to learn to handle the cars properly.
He's already stated that he doesn't care about being competitive, and that's fine - that's not my point with Joey.
 
But, Joey, what you're doing here is preventing you from ever learning to drive better or stay in control.

Having the aids on is like playing a game of Post Office - you tell the controls what to do, the controls tell the driving aids what to do, and the driving aids tell the wheels what to do. An awful lot is lost in the translation.

How can you ever learn how to drive accurately if your inputs are filtered through a black box before they go into effect? You can't know the cause and effect, so you can't learn from your mistakes.

I agree with you there. I am like you though when the car has so much power and rear torque then I use a setting of 1 TCS to keep the wheels from going nuts. I also use it to remind myself to be pacient on the throttle. It is a lesson learned when I use too much throttle, because it hurts my drive off.

You know another thing, how can you blame people from using traction control? Really if they can run the same lap times (online) as someone not using them, whats the difference? lol
 

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