Why do most new Japanese Cars Lack Personality?

[buickgnx88]

Yeah... I really really miss these.

(Pictures)
All I can think of atm...

Don't forget the coolest Toyota Pickup ever:

 

[V1P3R]

It's ok. Sorry though, I don't do trucks or SUVs.

 

[buickgnx88]

Haha well I do and I really love the blackout look of it.

 

[JCE]

so a V10 is a measure of excitement?

i got a ford F350 and a dodge truck for you. available with all wheel drive and ungodly torque!!!!!

seriously need to stop and consider the topic at hand. cars. personality.


what the personality is, hasn't been defined. power alone isn't it. looks aren't it. handling isn't it. it hasn't been defined.

id say it is an ingredient that can't be summed up with one qualifying variable. its a sense of just rightness that some cars just have and others wish they had.
personality. character. charisma. class. soul. call it whatever you want to. define it first. otherwise people will throw out the tripe that i just disproved with my second sentence.

miata is a car that lacks so much of everything, but cannot be called lacking in personality. it brings a grin to your face. perhaps thats the it factor that were trying to define.
the FD certainly had it. whereas the supra and 3000GT didnt. the 300ZX seemed to nearly have it. the old BMW M3s had it. im not so sure this last one does have it. the E30 had it, the E36 less so, the E46 moreso than the current one. the current one may have more power and performace, but word on the street is that it leaves you feeling a little unfulfilled. it lacks soul. it doesnt grab you.

the M5 has also become more awesome and less fun. the uber audis. the G35. coupe or sedan. beautiful car. doesnt make one want to go the long way. S2000 nice handling and specific output, but rather limp in the pants.

what happened to the E/J/H/K hondas and thier ilk? datsun 510. the NSX. the suzuki samurai. yes i said samurai. fun little car if you realise its limitations. prelude. MR2. AE86, integra type R. first gen SC300/400 (a little soul less, but a styling out the park homerun. who expects that from the japanese when the europeans simply take two doors off thier cars to make a coupe?) sentra B13 SE-R? FD is already mentioned.

toyota is the worst culprit. i can think of only the MR2 as a car id like to own of thier recent offerings.
they have good enough engines and suspensions and cars. just not all at the same time.

perhaps its because the cars are getting higher and higher performance. and its getting harder to exploit that performance without going to a track. which would explain the cult like status of the miata and probably soon, the mini. and heavier. and bigger. and more luxurious with each successive iteratinon.

All your opinion, and I do respect your opinion. Everyone is entitled to decide what cars have personality to them...that's the real key. I may feel the RX-8 lacks enough personality that it bores me while others disagree. This "personality" arguement/issue is subjective based upon the individule.

Did you do more than just run both cars through the gears? Because if that's all you did, then it's no wonder the RX didn't do anything for you.

I ran the cars down several different types of roads including; curves, straights, sharp corners, and even did some minor sliding around the dealership's empty lot. I just felt the RX-8 lacks the feeling of what I want in a car. I usually don't prefer a high rev'er (some I do--see Prelude/S2000), and the RX-8 you need to drive around in 1st gear @ 85,000mph to get any sort of "feeling" in the power department. The engine noise makes me nautious also. I just don't like rotary engines.

The Z has a much stronger powerband and makes much better noise.

Oh, tell me about it.

But the RX-8 is a much better handling car and to me

I'm not disagreeing with you that the RX-8 doesn't handle better than the 350Z--because it most certainly does. But as you stated the Z isn't exactly lacking in the handling department. Which is why it usually will eat a Corvette C5 on a track with significantly less power.

Or how the 8 has MUCH better balance and will rotate under braking or the throttle... whereas with the Z you have a choice between understeer or more understeer? Or how the 8 manages to ride better AND grip harder than the Z?

Disagree on the understeer or more understeer portion. I found it quite easy to get the tail out most of the time when pushing it through corners. A manual transmission and throttle control combined along with the driver can easily get the Z sliding. I'm not saying you don't have the ability, I'm just saying that it is quite possible to oversteer and do it easier than you think.

I'm not saying the Z handles like crap or anything, because it doesn't. It's an easy, intuitive car to drive fast and fairly forgiving. But the 8 has a deep talent in the chassis, whereas the Z is simply competent.

I'm glad you agree that the Z isn't any slouch in the handling department. For something that is slightly hefty it actually handles quite well.

If lack of grunt is your primary beef with the 8, you're missing out on a lot of qualities the car has to offer.

Lack of grunt when referring to these cars is 65% of my beef. The other percentages are due to the fact that the RX-8 looks like a retarded fish and I hate the stupid small doors--which BTW make it a SALOON NOT COUPE.

I like your naked attempt to appeal to my sensibilities.

I actually didn't do that on purpose. But, it is quite humorous now that I see it.

On a side note, the Z has an interior about on par with most Kias

Hey! I like the Z's interior!

So what's your beef with the Boxster?

No beef so far as to say its a rubbish car. I was simply using the TopGear referrence to it. I'm actually very strongly considering buying one now that I know I can get one for $15k USD or less. Its still a poor man's 911.

Agreed its got plenty of personality. Its a big brawny bruiser that will slap ferraris silly on the autobahn.

Thank you for agreeing with me, seems we're alone with this opinion.

Don't forget the coolest Toyota Pickup ever:

+1 I loved those things, they are the best truck Toyota has made. This is the one all tricked out for the Back to the Future too.

*edit*
Oh yea, that Toyota truck has oodles of personality.

 

[buickgnx88]

Haha yah that's how I thought of it is while i was watching the movies.

 

[Pupik]

When an Italian makes a sportscar:

It costs as much as a new house.
It costs as much to repair as a foreclosure.
It is not for sale in America.

When a German makes a sportscar:

It tops out at 155mph.

When the Japanese makes a sportscar:

Fanboys swear it can transform into a robot and make Italian sportscars affordable.

 

[Tornado]

It costs as much as a new house.
It costs as much to repair as a foreclosure.
It is not for sale in America.


It tops out at 155mph.


Fanboys swear it can transform into a robot and make Italian sportscars affordable.

+ Invisirep.

 

[High-Test]

It costs as much as a new house.
It costs as much to repair as a foreclosure.
It is not for sale in America.


It tops out at 155mph.


Fanboys swear it can transform into a robot and make Italian sportscars affordable.

I did one about the Japanese!?

But..

+1 invisirep

 

[Jay]

. If you really think about it, it isn't all that revolutionary,

You don't even have to think about it, it's not revolutionary AT ALL.

 

[///M-Spec]

I ran the cars down several different types of roads including; curves, straights, sharp corners, and even did some minor sliding around the dealership's empty lot. I just felt the RX-8 lacks the feeling of what I want in a car. I usually don't prefer a high rev'er (some I do--see Prelude/S2000), and the RX-8 you need to drive around in 1st gear @ 85,000mph to get any sort of "feeling" in the power department. The engine noise makes me nautious also. I just don't like rotary engines.

Alright, that's fair enough.

I'm not disagreeing with you that the RX-8 doesn't handle better than the 350Z--because it most certainly does. But as you stated the Z isn't exactly lacking in the handling department. Which is why it usually will eat a Corvette C5 on a track with significantly less power.

Ugh. I hope you're not basing that on a Best Motoring clip.

Disagree on the understeer or more understeer portion. I found it quite easy to get the tail out most of the time when pushing it through corners. A manual transmission and throttle control combined along with the driver can easily get the Z sliding. I'm not saying you don't have the ability, I'm just saying that it is quite possible to oversteer and do it easier than you think.

I'm sure you can get the tail out if you leave plenty of grip in reserve at the front end. In other words, if you approach the corner with the intent on hanging the tail out --but not necessarily to drive a clean line as quickly as possible-- getting tail out is probably pretty simple. It is, after all, a RWD car with plenty of wheel torque, an LSD and a short wheelbase.

But when I was driving it, I was striving to find maximum corner and exit speeds. I found that when the front end washes out (and it always does), you really needed to just back off or touch the brakes. If you added throttle, it just pushes even wider. It really didn't want to rotate. In other words, the Z that I drove had a strong bias toward understeer. This is not a bad thing for a car. My M3s were pretty much the same way. (I will admit, the 03 350Z I drove was an auto.. the 6MT demo was already sold)

So fair enough: I'll amend my statement: I'm sure it's not impossible to drive a Z sideways. You just can't overwork the front first. But it certainly doesn't give you as many choices as the RX-8.

Lack of grunt when referring to these cars is 65% of my beef. The other percentages are due to the fact that the RX-8 looks like a retarded fish and I hate the stupid small doors--which BTW make it a SALOON NOT COUPE.

Saloon? You mean sedan? Don't you Texans get drunk in a saloon instead of drive them?

Hey! I like the Z's interior!

I think the design of the interior is fine. But the materials and fit and finish of early Zs were pathetic. I understand they improved it a little in later years, but man, that 2003 I drove... ugh.

If GM had made that interior, everybody would be blasting it and saying "same cheap crap again..."

No beef so far as to say its a rubbish car. I was simply using the TopGear referrence to it. I'm actually very strongly considering buying one now that I know I can get one for $15k USD or less. Its still a poor man's 911.

It's another great car that I don't think deserves the stigma attached to it.

I don't understand the whole "it's not a 911" argument. That's like saying a 350Z is a poor man's GTR... or the M3 is a poor man's M6... or the Carrera is a poor man's Turbo.


M

 

[niky]

+1 on whoever said Honda Fit some 1,000 pages ago.

Anyone who thinks modern commuter cars are all too anodyne... too soul-less... has got to drive one of these...

The corners of the car feel like they're wired to your brain, and it's just plain fun to drive. It has crap for power, a crashy suspension, a rear torsion beam, of all things, and electric power steering that's nowhere near as good as a Logitech Wheel. It looks like a micro-mini-van, to boot... but this car just hits all the right buttons when you get it on the right road.

Of course, this all means they're going to give it more power, more refinement, and a softer suspension for the next generation. Which means that the current generation will be going on fire-sale pretty soon... so it's a good time to get one, before they ruin it...

 

[GT Pro]

I would've definitely thought that 'Japanese' cars actually had the most personality of all cars, particularly if you pay attention to the wacky Kei-car concepts that are abundant at Tokyo Motor shows.

Production models such as the Nissan Cube or Toyota bB definitely have 'character'.

 

[JCE]

Ugh. I hope you're not basing that on a Best Motoring clip.

Maybe I was overzealous. It can at least keep on par and some times nudge ahead of the C5 around a track--with more weight and less power. That's an accomplishment I'd say.

I'm sure you can get the tail out if you leave plenty of grip in reserve at the front end. In other words, if you approach the corner with the intent on hanging the tail out --but not necessarily to drive a clean line as quickly as possible-- getting tail out is probably pretty simple. It is, after all, a RWD car with plenty of wheel torque, an LSD and a short wheelbase.

That = fun.

(I will admit, the 03 350Z I drove was an auto.. the 6MT demo was already sold)

The manual is much better take my word for it. As you know control of gears = power when and where you want it to the driving wheels--in this case the rear--which equals wheelspin, which equals loss of traction...etc.

So fair enough: I'll amend my statement: I'm sure it's not impossible to drive a Z sideways. You just can't overwork the front first. But it certainly doesn't give you as many choices as the RX-8.

You're quite correct, the Z doesn't give you more methods of cornering as the RX-8. But it gives me my favourite type of cornering--sideways.

Saloon? You mean sedan? Don't you Texans get drunk in a saloon instead of drive them?

I'm German not Texan. I don't wear cowboy hats, ride horses, drink water---errr American beer, and most certainly do not listen to country music. I thank god everyday I'm not a Texan..

It's another great car that I don't think deserves the stigma attached to it.

I don't understand the whole "it's not a 911" argument. That's like saying a 350Z is a poor man's GTR... or the M3 is a poor man's M6... or the Carrera is a poor man's Turbo.

While underpowered the first few years of the Boxsster where rather less than stellar because most people just assumed it was an attempt at Porsche at selling out by making a "poor man's 911". I admittedly fell into that catagory. But I drove one and quickly changed my tune. I still think they are just expensive enough to fall out of the "poor man's 911" catagory. They are built for a purpose, and I see that now. The stimga is still attached mainly because it hasn't really changed other than more power and a slightly refined interior/exterior. I would probably choose it over the Z4 solely on the looks alone. Anyway, if I buy an early one (which is still a possibility) I plan on paying it off then fixing up the Camaro then taking my attention to the Coxster (more correct spelling?) and making it insane with some modifications.

+1 on whoever said Honda Fit some 1,000 pages ago.

Me. They are epic cars and the only thing Honda currently has in America that I would buy new with my own money at full price. That is paying full MSRP.

 

[///M-Spec]

Maybe I was overzealous. It can at least keep on par and some times nudge ahead of the C5 around a track--with more weight and less power. That's an accomplishment I'd say.

:shrugs: Too many variables. At the right track on the right day with the right guy behind the wheel I can see a Z staying with or edging out a C5. I'm sure it happens. But I would say this sort of outcome would be the exception rather than the norm.

That = fun.

No argument: it's fun. But not very fast Not to belabor the point, but I noticed over the years many car magazines and Z owners have also commented the car had an understeer bias --so I'm pretty sure it's not just me saying this.

The manual is much better take my word for it. As you know control of gears = power when and where you want it to the driving wheels--in this case the rear--which equals wheelspin, which equals loss of traction...etc.

That's why my own car is manual and always will be 👍

I'm German not Texan. I don't wear cowboy hats, ride horses, drink water---errr American beer, and most certainly do not listen to country music. I thank god everyday I'm not a Texan..

No kidding! I didn't know that. (no sarcasm)

So you don't like Texas, California, Florida, New York... did I miss a state? Out of curiosity... why did you move to the US?

While underpowered the first few years of the Boxsster where rather less than stellar because most people just assumed it was an attempt at Porsche at selling out by making a "poor man's 911". I admittedly fell into that catagory. But I drove one and quickly changed my tune. I still think they are just expensive enough to fall out of the "poor man's 911" catagory. They are built for a purpose, and I see that now. The stimga is still attached mainly because it hasn't really changed other than more power and a slightly refined interior/exterior. I would probably choose it over the Z4 solely on the looks alone. Anyway, if I buy an early one (which is still a possibility) I plan on paying it off then fixing up the Camaro then taking my attention to the Coxster (more correct spelling?) and making it insane with some modifications.

The relative lack of power seems to be why most people dump on the 986/987. Power is a good thing and I like it as much as the next guy, but honestly I wish people would learn to evaluate cars on more than just power to weight ratio. I'm not accusing you of doing this; it's just something I've always noticed and over the years started to get tired of hearing.

Several years ago, a very good friend of mine bought a '98 Boxster for about $20k. It only had 16,000 miles on it: a total cream puff. I think an early 986 is one of the best sports car bargins out there today, along with an early C5.

Did you know that 996s and 986s are nearly identical from the windshield forward?


M

 

[Sniffs]

??!
a lot of arguments made over the "quality" of things in general

think I mist be the only one that likes the "vicious" look that is currently Honda's design hallmark.
I'm an American that prefers the looks of the sweet curves on European market cars. they have just enough straight lines on them to break the monotony. I also prefer the European color-schemes. the american paint pallet for years has been the same thing: silver, dark blue, dark green, burgundy, "refrigerator"...these flat dull colors that are "insurance rate hiking proof" drive me nuts. even the red provided is just one flat color, and is getting BORING.

unfortunately, almost everything perceived as personality is subjective.

i LIKE the "curves" era of the ninties...as long as they've done away with the straight-line lights...and don't get me started on how "cop out" all the "Altezza style" and "euro style" lights look. to me they scream "poser". if I wanted to replace my tails, I would want to do it in an OE style with modern diamond lenses. this makes vehicles a LOT easier to see in the wee hours when your half asleep from a lack of morning coffee

if you want a "no Nannies" car, you can have my 4Runner...it's in severe need of Antilocks and Traction controll...as well as about 50 more ponies under the hood (a K&N only gives it a 3 horse boost...at screaming-meemie rev levels). matter of fact, I think I Flat Spotted one of my BFGoodrich winters because of lock up (you wouldn't BELIEVE how old my spare is...it's still on american tire measurements!)

 

[buickgnx88]

American measurements aren't old, they still use them on tires but mostly drag/vintage tires and off-road/all-terrain tires.

 

[High-Test]

American measurements aren't old, they still use them on tires but mostly drag/vintage tires and off-road/all-terrain tires.

Hurst cheater slicks and the Coker Tire catalog are what percent of tires on the road, exactly?



I'd like to see the quirky character of a Nissan Cube here. I wouldn't mind a few Daihatsus either.

 

[YSSMAN]

I'd like to see the quirky character of a Nissan Cube here.

Did I put that in the news section or not? I don't think I did... Nissan says that they're bringing it here for certain, again, after they've said it like a million times before.

See? See? They're doing it(ish)!

Price it right and I'd consider it. The EPIC FAIL that is this updated xB makes me hope that this one would be efficent and fun to drive, which in actuality, may be hoping for too much...

 

[Tornado]

I wouldn't mind a few Daihatsus either.

They already got laughed out of America once, and with the Scion range currently targeting 40 year old hipsters, I dunno who Daihatsu would sell cars to.
Besides, Daihatsu seems to be tanking worldwide.

 

[YSSMAN]

Both the Scion xD and xB are Dithatsu products, I believe. Well, at least I know that the xB is. That ones called the Dihatsu Materia around the rest of the world.



Click on the photo to hear what Clarkson said about the car... And no, he didn't hate it...

 

[Tornado]

Both the Scion xD and xB are Dithatsu products, I believe. Well, at least I know that the xB is.

They look similar, but they aren't the same. Ours is like an 11/10s version, only completely terrible. Theirs is based on the Yaris. Ours is based on the Corolla. Ours is a foot longer and 700 pounds heavier.
Its like the big stupid American version of a Japanese car, which I guess is accurate enough.

 

[YSSMAN]

So that makes the xD the same then... Which at least in my opinion, wasn't a horrible car. It just wasn't particularly good either.

Which reminds me:

The Astra has a better interior than the xD if you ask me, but by no means is the Astra interior all that great. Its more "soft" (ie Quality) than the Cobalt, but it isn't a huge leap forward. Definitely not even close to the awesomeness that is the VW Rabbit and Honda Fit...

 

[Pupik]

The trouble with Scion is that the "personality" is in all the wrong dimensions. The orginal xB wasn't a bad car, but the dash reminded me of an acid trip's whacked-out sense of depth perception that is persona non grata when you're hurtling through traffic.

Long ago, I wondered who would ever buy certain cars, and yet...they're on the road. Someone's buying a certain new car not because they have to, but because they actually want to buy it. Some thing about that car was the deciding factor, the deal-maker, the killer app: That "thing", that intangible, was the personality of the car and driver as one.

Then they bring it to the service department, and the love affair is over. I have to be the marriage counselor.

 

[Rockit]

gonna toss this comment in, someone noted the skyline had less soul, and more gizmos' to act like a soul, which in part is true and why i prefer the r32 to the bland tasteless r34.

That being said, OF COURSE japan's super cars merely have steel gizmo's instead of souls,, they're in love with GIANT ROBOTS man! Just think of the skyline as a big gundam wing zero pointing the buster cannon at a)your chances of winning this race b) your old cars soul. I'm serious though can they do anything over there without involving a huge robot? ever seen eureka 7? giant, alien, surfboarding robots!

seriously i think japan wants to just get rid of organic matter and replace us all with cyborgs labled "sony"

oh and my GTA talks to me. swear. it has a digital dash option which, malfunctions just a bit, making it beep at me randomly when i piss her off.

 

[Icanhazaccount?]

Well, in terms of 'personality', per se, I'm not sure where the IS ranks, but I do like its design. I like the IS-F better, but Automobile Magazine seems to think that it ruined the stock IS's perfect proportions by being 2 inches longer.