Why do some cars feel slow in 1st gear?

[G.T]

This is something that's been bothering me for a while now but I haven't found an answer for it.

In some cars I've been in, while accelerating hard in 1st gear the car doesn't seem to accelerate that fast. But once it's shifted into 2nd, it accelerates a lot harder. My friend's new Fiesta does this and he and I definetely noticed it - his old Ka didn't - that car accelerated just as well in 1st as it did in 2nd. My parent's Qashqai does the same thing - you might as well put it in 2nd gear from about 10 mph and it'll accelerate harder than in 1st. The Civic did this too but no where near as bad. Some cars have been absolutely fine...

Why are some cars like this and some not? Maybe it's something to do with putting less strain on the car?

 

[Keef]

I think it's only the smoother, longer powerband of the taller gear that makes you "feel" like you're going like a bat out of hell. The accelerative forces change rapidly in 1st gear as an engine moves from no power down low to lots of power in the middle to flattening out at the top. But in second gear you're in that middle power zone for a lot longer, and you go "woah". Mind games.

Gear ratios don't lie, unless the engine's computer has some wacked out programming that cuts the power drastically in first gear. That's a ridiculous idea.

 

[homeforsummer]

I think it's only the smoother, longer powerband of the taller gear that makes you "feel" like you're going like a bat out of hell. The accelerative forces change rapidly in 1st gear as an engine moves from no power down low to lots of power in the middle to flattening out at the top. But in second gear you're in that middle power zone for a lot longer, and you go "woah". Mind games.

Gear ratios don't lie, unless the engine's computer has some wacked out programming that cuts the power drastically in first gear. That's a ridiculous idea.

I reckon this is a pretty fair explanation. I do know though that a fair few newer cars also have a lower rev limit in first, presumably to save on drivetrain wear. This applies both to my dad's Saab and my brother's Clio, but doesn't apply to my older Fiesta (very similar to the Ka mentioned in the first post).

1st gear though, becase it's so low, is usually a bit of a rush to the redline and then a quick change into 2nd, which as Keef says is probably why second feels quicker, as it's a little longer. I know in many turbocharged cars, 3rd gear feels even quicker because by then, the car often has full traction and the gear is longer still so when the turbo is spooled up fully you're getting the boost for longer.

 

[Boffin]

My Volvo is faster in first than second.

I think the reason why some cars aren't is because they are driven by people who don't care much for driving. The Fiesta and the Qashqai are not exactly driver's cars. They give them an chance to change before the redline and the throttle resonse would be dulled so that they don't accidentaly floor it into someone in a car park. In these cars, 1st gear presision is more important than acceleration.

My Opinion

 

[Stevisiov]

I have definetly noticed what G.T mentioned. My first gear Rev's up quick enough but it doesn't really translate to motion. It feels as if the car is being held back, its not anything to do with a lack of traction either.

It's odd because it accelerates @ 2000 quicker in second than @4000 in 1st, without any wheel spin. Its almost as if 1st gear is way to short but is torque limited. This doesn't happen in the focus, only the 306.

 

[Azuremen]

Gearing and the power band. If it is a remotely peaky powerband, you'll have very little power under 3,000 RPM. Combine that with once you do hit the power, the engine gets up to that rev limiter very fast.

If anything, some of the speed or the feel there of is likely more a result of the slight pause between the 1st and 2nd gears. Build up in first, shift, and then start second in the power band.

 

[G.T]

Gearing and the power band. If it is a remotely peaky powerband, you'll have very little power under 3,000 RPM. Combine that with once you do hit the power, the engine gets up to that rev limiter very fast.

If anything, some of the speed or the feel there of is likely more a result of the slight pause between the 1st and 2nd gears. Build up in first, shift, and then start second in the power band.

Yeah, this and what Keef said could be it. The 2nd gear in the Fiesta is quite long, so maybe that's what we're feeling the whole time.

But what Steve said is definitely a good explaination though of it though. I'm sure something else is at work here since both cars definitely feel flat in 1st gear no matter how hard you accelerate or rev it. Then second feels fine. It definitely feels as if the torque is limited some how. I can understand what you guys are saying but what puzzles me is that some cars I've been in are absolutely fine and acclerate hard in 1st just as well as in second. My friend's Civic and Yaris both accelerate hard in 1st.

 

[TofuStoreDrift]

Believe Keef hit the nail on the head. Try a little experiment. Say your redline is at 7k rpm. Drive the car to 5k rpm, in 1st, then quickly jab the throttle, and release it. Then try the same thing in 2nd. I willing to wager 1st gear will be a whole lot more violent. On second thought, this would probably be hard on your driveline parts so.... TofuStoreDrift takes no responsibility for driveline repairs or time spent standing behind police cruisers.

 

[Philly]

Some cars are torque limited in first gear, but I think that's pretty much just FWD cars with way too much power like the MS3.

 

[niky]

Actually... very few cars are torque limited in first gear. And those are mostly 400+ hp rear-drivers and a very small handful of front-drive cars with nearly 300 hp to the wheels.

All cars will accelerate more violently in first gear than second. Leave the car in first gear at 5 km/h. Stomp the throttle. Count the time it takes to get to 40. Do the same with second gear, and I can almost guarantee it'll struggle to clear the first ten.

It's just that first gear is often so short that you don't have time to go wow at what the car is doing. The car takes much longer to pull through second gear and third gear, so the difference between the low-torque part of your rev range and the high-torque part are more pronounced, and more enjoyable. But neither will match the delta-V of first gear. I've been testing cars for a few years now, and the V-Box doesn't lie. G-forces and acceleration are always hardest in the first gear... no matter how puny your engine is.

If it's genuinely slower accelerating in first gear, there are a few things that come to mind:

1. Your clutch is shot. The huge torque multiplying effect of first gear over second and third is slipping your clutch something awful.

2. Your tires are shot. Rinse. Repeat.

3. You've got engine problems... though that'd be strange... since the engine isn't under load long enough in first gear for you to feel this.

 

[Slick Rick]

In small cars 1st gear deliberately has a very low ratio in order to easily get off a standstill. Engine makes a lot of noise but you dont seem to be going anywhere

 

[niky]

If it's a crawling ratio that hits redline at. like, 15 miles an hour, I'd understand... but most modern-ish cars have a first ratio good for 25-30 mph... which is definitely not slow.

 

[Stevisiov]

Actually... very few cars are torque limited in first gear. And those are mostly 400+ hp rear-drivers and a very small handful of front-drive cars with nearly 300 hp to the wheels.

All cars will accelerate more violently in first gear than second. Leave the car in first gear at 5 km/h. Stomp the throttle. Count the time it takes to get to 40. Do the same with second gear, and I can almost guarantee it'll struggle to clear the first ten.

It's just that first gear is often so short that you don't have time to go wow at what the car is doing. The car takes much longer to pull through second gear and third gear, so the difference between the low-torque part of your rev range and the high-torque part are more pronounced, and more enjoyable. But neither will match the delta-V of first gear. I've been testing cars for a few years now, and the V-Box doesn't lie. G-forces and acceleration are always hardest in the first gear... no matter how puny your engine is.

If it's genuinely slower accelerating in first gear, there are a few things that come to mind:

1. Your clutch is shot. The huge torque multiplying effect of first gear over second and third is slipping your clutch something awful.

2. Your tires are shot. Rinse. Repeat.

3. You've got engine problems... though that'd be strange... since the engine isn't under load long enough in first gear for you to feel this.

Well the clutch has been replaced in the last year, and there certainly isn't signs of slippage anymore.

The tyres breaking loose isn't an issue

Well the engine isn't great but I can't see it as an engine related problem

I don't think the first gear delta-v is related to the above, at least in the 306.

In small cars 1st gear deliberately has a very low ratio in order to easily get off a standstill. Engine makes a lot of noise but you dont seem to be going anywhere

That's pretty much what I thought it was, the gear is extremely short.

If it's a crawling ratio that hits redline at. like, 15 miles an hour, I'd understand... but most modern-ish cars have a first ratio good for 25-30 mph... which is definitely not slow.

well I didn't check the redline mph in first, but it isn't particularly fast. The 1st gear is very short, presumably to get the car of the mark, it hasn't got overwhelming torque afterall.

I haven't the experienced problem in any of the other cars i have ever driven (its not a massively long list ).

 

[TiJayLFS]

A lot more cars than you'd think are torque limited in 1st. My Ford Puma 1.6 is as otherwise the Fiesta gearbox it uses would be overstressed. I'd imagine the bigger-engined Fiestas and some Focus' are limited too.

 

[niky]

So... besides that... what other sub-super-compacts are torque-limited? I'm willing to bet there aren't a whole lot.