Why do we tune our cars?

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Kent
I’m new to the whole Gran Turismo world, been playing GT Sport daily since release. Could people please advise me on why we are able to tune our cars? I know this sounds silly, but I tune the cars, race AI, (these races on professional don’t seem to be much of a challenge). I go to online races, these races have fixed rules, tuning is locked, I finish mid to rear of the pack. So I ask why do we tune the cars if all we can do is race the AI with our personal spec / tuned cars?
 
There is also online lobbies where people set their own rules to race in. People host drag, drift lobbies etc go in there with a stock untuned car your going to have a bad time.
 
Sport Mode is currently experimenting with fixed settings, it's not likely that it will be a permanent feature.
 
Sport Mode is currently experimenting with fixed settings, it's not likely that it will be a permanent feature.

"Experiments" is a clear sign that they dont actually know what is working and what is not -plus a clear fact that they did not have a plan in the first place-.
I wonder what did they do with all the data they collected all this time -starting with the closed beta-.
 
Sport Mode is currently experimenting with fixed settings, it's not likely that it will be a permanent feature.
"Experiments" is a clear sign that they dont actually know what is working and what is not -plus a clear fact that they did not have a plan in the first place-.
I wonder what did they do with all the data they collected all this time -starting with the closed beta-.

You’re saying it’s an experiment, I say it’s the best solution, if you don’t want to end up with races where everyone drives the same car. If you make a BoP, you need to have an immovable base line. If you allow tuning, you have no idea where that base line is. One car might be improved by 1s, another by 2s - nobody knows, and with literally billions of possible settings for each car, even PD don’t know what the best possible tuning setup is for each car.

By removing that variable, they can approach a BoP that’s reasonably fair by assessing a vast number of players’ times. How else would a Manufacturer’s Cup ever be fair?
 
Why not set the BoP as fixed minimum weight and fixed max HP and allow all other tuning to take place. If a stock car is under weight they must add to make up the difference. If it is over HP they must reduce. This allows those who can produce a better tune for each track to shine. Doesn't seem that difficult to me.
 
HP and weight regulations are fine in Sport Mode but we should be allowed to tune suspension, differential, etc. There are clearly cars better than others in Sport Mode right now. If they are gonna have fixed tune races they should also have tuned races. Right now tuning is mildly useless, except for in lobbies, which arent that hoppin right now. Seems like most are playing Sport Mode.
 
Tuning in this game is useless, because kids have no idea about real competition. I try to find races with equalizers like tire wear, fuel consumption etc. Starting to get real bored with seeing the same cars in the races. So not only is tuning not allowed, but custom liveries are not allowed in a lot of these races either, so you literately see the same exact cars (whichever car is the current OP car) so right now.. all I see are Vipers and AR4Cs. I spend a TON of time tuning each car for each track and saving those tunes as seperate sheets, all to find out that I never get to use them outside of time trials in arcade mode... I'm thinking I need to find a good racing league that allows tuning and has tire wear, fuel consumption and damage turned on.. a realistic racing sim.
thats fun for me.. wish me luck.
 
Balance of Performance should have already been sorted out by now with all the beta testing info they have. They can (as they have already) make minor adjustments if they need to but the best way to figure that out now is to use the manufacturer series as the test bench. Players are locked in to their cars at this point- let people get as much out of them with tuning and break the balance as much as possible now when it doesn't count before we get to the real season.
 
Tuning in this game is useless, because kids have no idea about real competition. I try to find races with equalizers like tire wear, fuel consumption etc. Starting to get real bored with seeing the same cars in the races. So not only is tuning not allowed, but custom liveries are not allowed in a lot of these races either, so you literately see the same exact cars (whichever car is the current OP car) so right now.. all I see are Vipers and AR4Cs. I spend a TON of time tuning each car for each track and saving those tunes as seperate sheets, all to find out that I never get to use them outside of time trials in arcade mode... I'm thinking I need to find a good racing league that allows tuning and has tire wear, fuel consumption and damage turned on.. a realistic racing sim.
thats fun for me.. wish me luck.
Do you share your tuning data on your cars?
 
Why not set the BoP as fixed minimum weight and fixed max HP and allow all other tuning to take place. If a stock car is under weight they must add to make up the difference. If it is over HP they must reduce. This allows those who can produce a better tune for each track to shine. Doesn't seem that difficult to me.

Well, creating a Balance of Performance is a little more complicated than this. What a BoP is trying to achieve, is to balance completely different concepts so that they can compete on a level playing field, even if one of them has a massive inherent advantage. You think e.g. a Nissan GT-R and an Audi A8 in Gr.3 will yield the same results, if you just set the same minimum weight and maximum power for both? You have a naturally aspirated V10 and a turbocharged V6, one car front-engined, one mid-engine - they will behave nothing alike. Then add some bonus of unknown quantity (i.e. a setup) to each car, and you will have a completely uneven field.

Of course, in real life you can adjust the setup, but by far not as extreme as in GTS. E.g. in a real GT3 you are not able to change the gear ratios and adjusting a setup doesn't magically make the car seconds faster.

The BoP is the most important element for GT Sport to work. If the cars are uneven, all races will quickly turn into one-make races.
 
I am for tuning and I don't have the time to perfect a tune. Tuning is part of racing, and one tune may fit one drivers style, but doesn't mean it will fit another drivers style.
 
The BoP is the most important element for GT Sport to work. If the cars are uneven, all races will quickly turn into one-make races.

The major problem with this statement is that PD have locked setups in pursuit of BoP, and yet every class has one car that is clearly the best by a good margin. All I keep seeing about GTS is how most of the cars are useless, because there's an OP car in each class, so you basically have to save up and buy the OP cars to have any chance.

On the subject of locked setups: I'm not a fan at all. I can drive around problems in a car's handling, and have done many times before (both in sims and the real world), but I'd much rather be comfortable. I'd prefer to be able to change the car's setup to better suit my driving style. The way I see it is while I can drive around a setup that doesn't suit me, I'll obviously be faster with one that does. Having setups locked leads to a scenario where one driver may feel perfectly at home with the default setup, but another may feel uncomfortable. This hands an advantage to the driver who feels comfortable with the default setup. Let's say for argument's sake that both of these drivers are equally talented. One prefers understeer at the limit, and the other oversteer. If the default setup is very understeery, then the first driver will be faster with it than the second, because it's closer to the type of setup he's comfortable with. In what world is that fair?

PD have had enough development and testing time that they should be able to achieve performance parity in each class without the need to lock away basic things like suspension and differential settings...

Edit: And yes, making the game more realistic would have helped this, as there's no point even including set up tuning in your game if you're forced to lock it away because it doesn't work realistically and people can find exploits to gain multiple seconds from simple setup changes...
 
I am in the camp that suspension tuning, gearing changes and aerodynamic changes should all be allowed with the stipulation that:

All classes and races that allow tuning must be of minimum length to require at least 10 laps with the exception of tracks over 7 miles in length and they require minimum of 5 laps.

Tire wear at minimum of 5x to be activated.

All adjustments will affect in game the same as such adjustments would affect all systems in real life. Example castor/camber adjustments would need to affect tire wear due to changes in contact area and angles.

The purpose for these stipulations is to limit tunes to within some resemblance of real world tunes or adjustments and excessive castor and camber or toe in and out will greatly accelerate tire wear making unreal tunes using such adjustments fast for a few laps maybe but useless for a race distance as the performance degradation would be to great to quickly as a result of the advanced tire wear.

Also reducing AERO which promotes top speed again because of lack of down force under acceleration causing tire spin again decreases a tires longevity to maintain maximum grip and again excessive deviation from normal will excessively reduce lap times over a normal racing pit stop range.

I like adjustments but I also want to see the adjustments remain within a certain realm of realism.
Allowing tunes on short races invites exploitation of the tuning parameters to levels outside of realistic adjustments.
 
You’re saying it’s an experiment, I say it’s the best solution, if you don’t want to end up with races where everyone drives the same car. If you make a BoP, you need to have an immovable base line. If you allow tuning, you have no idea where that base line is. One car might be improved by 1s, another by 2s - nobody knows, and with literally billions of possible settings for each car, even PD don’t know what the best possible tuning setup is for each car.

By removing that variable, they can approach a BoP that’s reasonably fair by assessing a vast number of players’ times. How else would a Manufacturer’s Cup ever be fair?

I'll tell you what.
Pick up Gr.3 cars and go do some laps -without any kind of tuning or "upgrade"- around any track it was used in Cups/Manufacturer's Nations this week.
I did it.And there were some interesting results.There is a huge difference between those cars.But its even more interesting that the fastest (the only top 10 car used) in the track I used -the car I did use also in NC- turns out to be 2nd slowest in the class -in that track-.One of the slowest cars -when I was testing cars before entering the event-gave me the fastest time.The slower car before the event -again for me- was the 2nd fastest overall when used "stock".
What BoP did was make the faster cars slower and make the slow cars really fast.There was no actual BoP since some cars in the Cup Nations were at least 1,5-2 sec faster than others -in that track-.
My point is this:BoP should be used to make the field closer,not make fast cars so slow that the ones you "buff" are clearly faster than those.BTW my Cup Nations lap time was a little slower (0.2xx) than my best time using Gr3 "stocked".The car I used in Nations -the car that dominated the top 10 fastest times-had a difference of over 5 sec -used under BoP and stock-.The car that gave me the fastest lap was 1,5 sec faster compared to the "BoP Cup edition.
The only variably that changed was "BoP" in all these.And the only thing that "BoP" did was to turn the field up side down.Some cars gained 5 sec and others lost 2 sec.But in the end there was a huge difference between them after BoP.
To sum it up.Cars in the same category have huge difference between them.BoP used made the field up side down but not even/or close to each other.
When Closed beta was used -so that PD could test servers and issues like that- I wrote here about the two major problems this "sim" has:BoP and penalty/SR system not working (at least as good as it should).From closed Beta till now,the same problems are here.They still try to find a formula that works?I can understand that.But since after all this time,the same problems are a big issue -from my point of view at least- they are actually doing experiments because they cannon yet find solutions or they dont have the ability to sort these things out- .
One car might be improved by 1s, another by 2s - nobody knows, and with literally billions of possible settings for each car, even PD don’t know what the best possible tuning setup is for each car."

Tuning system in this "sim" is so simple that there should be no kind of "billions" different settings.In fact,some parts of that system do not actually make any difference -in extreme numbers- so tuning is not something that should worry PD.
 
Well, creating a Balance of Performance is a little more complicated than this. What a BoP is trying to achieve, is to balance completely different concepts so that they can compete on a level playing field, even if one of them has a massive inherent advantage. You think e.g. a Nissan GT-R and an Audi A8 in Gr.3 will yield the same results, if you just set the same minimum weight and maximum power for both? You have a naturally aspirated V10 and a turbocharged V6, one car front-engined, one mid-engine - they will behave nothing alike. Then add some bonus of unknown quantity (i.e. a setup) to each car, and you will have a completely uneven field.

Of course, in real life you can adjust the setup, but by far not as extreme as in GTS. E.g. in a real GT3 you are not able to change the gear ratios and adjusting a setup doesn't magically make the car seconds faster.

The BoP is the most important element for GT Sport to work. If the cars are uneven, all races will quickly turn into one-make races.
Ok, I understand your point. You are far more experienced at GT racing and real racing than I am. I still feel there should be a better way to balance cars in the same class as is done on the track. NA or Turbo seems PD could find a more realistic method. This is supposed to be a real driving simulator. Yes, locking everything makes it about the driver, but as has been stated by others driving style makes a difference also. I am a very poor driver against humans and do not participate often. When I do participate I usually finish near the back of the field (not because of the fixed turning -- because of my skill). However, I would still like to be able to tune the car so that I am comfortable in the race and feel that I am driving to my best ability. If the pairing were balanced a little better I might then be racing against more individuals of my limited ability.
 
Correct me if I’m wrong, but in the real world like Formula One the better drivers / constructors always finish higher than the others. This makes drivers / constructors each season strive to become better by learning from previous mistakes and tuning better. The more time, effort, learning and practice you put in the better the final result. So the lazy people who want to just get in and drive will suffer in race position than the ones who take the time to tweak and practice. Surely this would add longevity to the game as people would put in the hours. I understand the reason for a level playing field like in a handicap horse race with aim that everyone finishes together at the same time (but never does) as drivers (riders) have better skills due to practice and experience and some cars (horses) are just naturally built better and run smoother.
 
suspension should be allowed. on some of these cars it's the difference between being able to use the curbs to corner or launching off of them like a kicker ramp
 
Any type of class racing the racing orgs write the rules packages with the intent of having a competitive field across the board within the class.

As new cars are allowed in then at times the rules will be adjusted if it is seen that a particular car is either gaining an excessive advantage or at a excessive disadvantage to the rest of the field. These perimeters are constantly and closely monitored in the sense of equal and close competition within the class across the field.

What I find funny is that in two instances so far that PD fictional cars the Nissan GTR and the VW gt3 beetle have been the worse offenders of being OP.
 
Correct me if I’m wrong, but in the real world like Formula One the better drivers / constructors always finish higher than the others. This makes drivers / constructors each season strive to become better by learning from previous mistakes and tuning better. The more time, effort, learning and practice you put in the better the final result. So the lazy people who want to just get in and drive will suffer in race position than the ones who take the time to tweak and practice. Surely this would add longevity to the game as people would put in the hours. I understand the reason for a level playing field like in a handicap horse race with aim that everyone finishes together at the same time (but never does) as drivers (riders) have better skills due to practice and experience and some cars (horses) are just naturally built better and run smoother.

Well, F1 is different, because that's racing where the cars are built to a given formula, so everyone is allowed to build anything that conforms with the rules from scratch. In GT racing you have to take a real production car and engine as the foundation, and since these road models are completely different from each other, you need other methods to equalise them. The final GT3/GT4 cars are homologated, which basically includes adapting the cars to the BoP-baseline that already exists. Ahead of each year the cars are BoP'd again, by FIA and often by national series separately, as they might use different tyres and that can upset the equality. This alone is an example of how delicate a BoP is. The whole point of the GT classes is though, that you shouldn't need to do endless testing (to keep the cost down), because the cars should allow you to get up to a decent speed over a normal racing weekend pretty much "out of the box".
 
One thing you have to give Nascar is over the last 30 years they have pretty much perfected the art of BoP within a racing class with different manufacturers.

Nascar controls every part that goes in or on every car, each manufacturer has body templates that cannot be altered from to eliminate aero advantages, some tracks minimum spring rates and and specific shocks are handed out by Nascar (superspeedways) to eliminate teams setting the rear of the car up super soft to drop the rear spoiler down out of the air at speed to reduce drag.
At some tracks camber limits are in place to limit camber adjustment in the interest of safety as teams were setting up excessive camber to help the cars turn and wearing the inside of the tires to the cords because of the excessive lean angle because of the camber.

Nascar does have their act together in the BoP department if no where else.
 
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