Why does PD keeps tinkering with the physics.

[Siren]

Is there anyone here on your level of understanding and experience? Could you provide a resume' so we can assess our own qualifications in relation to yours to see if we're worthy of submitting a PM to you?

short answer yes there are lots of people on the same page as me , maybe you are too ? one way to find out ... PM me =) i said what i did in my previous comment as i would like to carry this topic on with some one who knows there stuff rather than some one who thinks on a "i know whats changed in physics by lap time" kind of level of understanding

Does it make a difference. Talking to someone who knows their stuff is not gonna change the physics. And what's so wrong with knowing what changed based on lap times ?

 

[Damo The Don]

because a lap times difference before and after a physics tweak will only tell you if your car has got faster or slower as a result of whats been changed and thats it , lap time isnt going to give any indication to whats been changed at all after all its just a lap time , knowing what has or hasnt been changed will come through feel/feedback from the car, also testing of specific parts ie are the springs reacting the same after the update ? ect ect , the short answer is you cant tell whats changed based off just seeing if your lap time is faster or slower.

As for whom your talking to depends on what you want from the conversation, no good discussing a topic that one person knows about and the other doesnt as it becomes more teaching the other person rather than staying on topic to what the initial discussion was about.

As for on topic talk right now i really do feel there has been very much changed for the better in the physics each time they have been tweaked , 2 ps3's one updated and one not , to me the difference between the two is vastly different and almost always changed for the better , the current version of gt6 just feels more crisp , the response and feedback you get from the cars is one of the biggest changes imo

 

[CBH]

lap time isnt going to give any indication to whats been changed at all after all its just a lap time

A lap time may give you and indication on a physics change.

 

[Damo The Don]

A lap time may give you and indication on a physics change.

a lap time is a indication of how fast your car has traveled round the current track from start to finish nothing more nothing less , please read the sentence you quoted me on .. obviously a lap time can show theres been a possible change in physics by being slower or faster but if you read the sentence properly it says ...
"lap time isnt going to give any indication to **whats** been changed at all after all its just a lap time"
as you can see its not has there been physic changes , its what physics have been changed

 

[CBH]

a lap time is a indication of how fast your car has traveled round the current track from start to finish nothing more nothing less , please read the sentence you quoted me on .. obviously a lap time can show theres been a possible change in physics by being slower or faster but if you read the sentence properly it says ...
"lap time isnt going to give any indication to **whats** been changed at all after all its just a lap time"
as you can see its not has there been physic changes , its what physics have been changed

Every time there is an update things do change in the physics I have notice this in my lap times so PD should tell us everything in what physics has been change after the update this will make a lot of players happy when they tuned a car.

 

[Damo The Don]

Every time there is an update things do change in the physics I have notice this in my lap times so PD should tell us everything in what physics has been change after the update this will make a lot of players happy when they tuned a car.

yes u will notice a change in time of course but like i said not what has changed , i persoanly like the no info on changes , it gives more insight into breaking the games physics down and learning , after all the best tunes come from the guys who genuinely know the games physics best

 

[Siren]

yes u will notice a change in time of course but like i said not what has changed

Why are people not understanding what you're trying to say lol. LapTime is just digits. You can't feel how the car has changed based off a lap time. Now what you can do is try to beat or get close to your laptime while studying what changed. Like maybe the car under stairs in this particular corner more than it did before or its more stiffer or lose. stuff like that.

 

[Bo]

You can't feel how the car has changed based off a lap time.

I don't think anyone ever said that. A lap time can back up a claim in a physics change, if you have ghosts/replays that show significant areas of difference (such as cornering speeds).

 

[CBH]

hsv is spot on about the ghost/replays that will definitely will give you an indication on a physics change after an update I have notice this with tunning cars because I just do time trials . So it would be nice if PD will tell us players they are tinkering with the physics and then we will know about the changes and everyone would be .

 

[mistersafeway]

I agree that it'd be good if they'd tell us if they are changing the physics, and if so, how, but laptimes prove one thing and one thing alone: that your speed is different. It reveals nothing about whether it's physics, driver ability, or tune based, at least not by itself, no matter how much anyone may want to think a loss of speed is down to a physics change (not pointing fingers). Amazingly enough, a gain of speed is always down to the driver. 💡

After reading more of peoples' thoughts since I last posted in this thread, it also seems like people are considering changes to how tuning works and cars getting faster or slower in relation to each other as physics changes. The first one is possibly classifiable as such, depending on your personal viewpoint, the second is called balancing, gets done in many games, and at best can be considered a physics change for those specific cars (I just see it as balancing myself, seeing as it's not an underlying engine change). Of course, that's based on the assumption that either of those things is genuinely happening, which I've not seen any proof of, beyond people saying 'it is happening', which is never backed up with visible evidence, unfortunately.

 

[SCER]

I suggest you fellas get this thread back on topic and knock off the off topic arguing before the thread gets locked. I wish I could contribute on physics changes but I just don't drive often enough to be certain and rarely drive the same car over and over. Sometimes when I hop into a car I haven't driven for months I think it feels incredible but I lack the certainty that comes with familiarity to be able to say that the physics have changed.

We agreed to disagree three hours ago.

 

[Nomad67]

We agreed to disagree three hours ago.

Agreed.. I think I even "liked" it

My apologies SCER for my part in that back and forth.

 

[sparkytooth]

I haven't felt changes in the dynamics since I started playing back in 1.04. Maybe it's because I use DS3 and keep most of my machines stock.

 

[Johnnypenso]

I haven't felt changes in the dynamics since I started playing back in 1.04. Maybe it's because I use DS3 and keep most of my machines stock.

If there were physics changes, driving stock cars would be the best way to notice it no? Once you start tuning, you have no idea whether a small adjustment you made affected handling or it was some outside influence.

We agreed to disagree three hours ago.

Then you're golden:tup:👍

 

[sparkytooth]

If there were physics changes, driving stock cars would be the best way to notice it no? Once you start tuning, you have no idea whether a small adjustment you made affected handling or it was some outside influence.

If there were, I haven't really noticed. The F40 does feel a bit less, hateful now or it's just me.

 

[Johnnypenso]

If there were, I haven't really noticed. The F40 does feel a bit less, hateful now or it's just me.

I'm pretty sure there was an update to the MR's and they are now a little tamer. I've seen it remarked on a few times and some big discussions on it a while back.

 

[sparkytooth]

I'm pretty sure there was an update to the MR's and they are now a little tamer. I've seen it remarked on a few times and some big discussions on it a while back.

I drove it on Monza 80s yesterday, felt less unpredictable, fun even.

 

[SCER]

If there were, I haven't really noticed. The F40 does feel a bit less, hateful now or it's just me.

The consensus is that they've really dulled down the handling quirks of the difficult to drive MR cars like the F40 and the Stratos. A shame in my opinion, at 1.00 you had to learn to drive them and now they've been tamed considerably.

I drove it on Monza 80s yesterday, felt less unpredictable, fun even.

It shouldn't be fun, you're supposed to be terrified and constantly at the limits of grip/control. Terrified.

 

[sparkytooth]

The consensus is that they've really dulled down the handling quirks of the difficult to drive MR cars like the F40 and the Stratos. A shame in my opinion, at 1.00 you had to learn to drive them and now they've been tamed considerably.

The Stratos is still well... Stratosy. The F40 however, still snaps when pushed a little too hard, so it keeps you alert.

 

[Terronium-12]

Knock the brattish nonsense off and keep the thread on topic.

The petty insults won't get any of you very far either. Just a polite warning that won't be restated should I have to visit this thread again.

 

[xiando]

Why?

You can call GT6 "GT7 lite" or "GT7 prologue" but whatever one calls it, it's pretty clear at this point that PD is and has been using "GT6" as a beta for their real product and the players as unpaid beta testers. As a result we see continuous changes in the physics, because they still don't have a handle on their own math models and presume a right to make consumers of their present version pay for their next version's debugging, not only at the register, but after the fact as players, by not enjoying omitted content they paid for and by suffering through continuous changes to the game physics without any real statement of what those changes are.

 

[SCER]

Knock the brattish nonsense off and keep the thread on topic.

The petty insults won't get any of you very far either. Just a polite warning that won't be restated should I have to visit this thread again.

Like I said earlier, the disagreement ended amicably a long time ago.

Why?

You can call GT6 "GT7 lite" or "GT7 prologue" but whatever one calls it, it's pretty clear at this point that PD is and has been using "GT6" as a beta for their real product and the players as unpaid beta testers. As a result we see continuous changes in the physics, because they still don't have a handle on their own math models and presume a right to make consumers of their present version pay for their next version's debugging, not only at the register, but after the fact as players, by not enjoying omitted content they paid for and by suffering through continuous changes to the game physics without any real statement of what those changes are.

In PD's defence it's not like there's a point at which they can say "yes, these physics are 100% accurate, we are done", the implementation of real car physics in video gaming is always going to be an ever-developing thing. You could argue that every game is a beta for the next game, as aspects of it will always be improved/refined.

 

[xiando]

Like I said earlier, the disagreement ended amicably a long time ago.



In PD's defence it's not like there's a point at which they can say "yes, these physics are 100% accurate, we are done", the implementation of real car physics in video gaming is always going to be an ever-developing thing. You could argue that every game is a beta for the next game, as aspects of it will always be improved/refined.

One can obviously successfully argue that POV for any software or product due to legacy. There is however, a palpable difference between working from a known quantity, and using a commercial release AS a defacto beta release.

 

[SCER]

One can obviously successfully argue that POV for any software or product due to legacy. There is however, a palpable difference between working from a known quantity, and using a commercial release AS a defacto beta release.

Exactly, and I wouldn't say that GT6 is being used as a beta in terms of driving physics, I actually thought GT6 had it down really well at release, I just have a feeling that they've progressively mellowed the characteristics of some of the harder to drive drivetrains to make them more accessible. The cars that were near undriveable in real life (Stratos) were near undrivable in the game, but those sorts of cars have been getting easier to drive ever since.

 

[xiando]

I could come up with a million excuses for PD, if they actually deserved that support, and indeed in the past I have, when it was justified, except I can't any more with a good conscience, due to their lack of prompt delivery and one of the worst lacks of communication I've ever seen from a software company. (No, btw, just in case you're about to reply what I read too often from others, it's not a "Japanese thing". I've never seen PD's imperious "we will tell you what we tell you when we decide to tell you...and we'll do so in vague, misleading terms and excuse it because we're Japanese" attitude from Japanese semiconductor mfgs, not from Japanese automation component mfgs, Not from their automotive sector, and in gaming, at least not from Square Enix (FFXI). Nor have I seen that attitude displayed by the many Japanese engineers and scientists with which I've worked over the years)

They pretty much showed their cards when they released that addon for privileged rich folk in lieu of providing the missing content usable by ALL the licensees of GT6, (not just the jet-set rich 0.1% of players), ie, the content that of course is still missing after 6-1/2 months and has no official timetable for release. I am well aware of how the NWO game is played. They're using this version as a beta for GT7 on the PS4, neither of which pertains to the software they sold me for the console on which it is played, instead for the next version which I do not own and am more and more unlikely to buy as a result of their "clever" tactics.

But we're veering off topic. Fact is, they're changing the physics routinely, and they're not delivering paid content for this game on time. GT7 is a known push and my bet is that they're releasing many changes to the physics so they can use player data as a large part of the development for GT7. That puts this game squarely into the realm of beta, declared or otherwise.