Why FR or FF

[skylineGTR_guy]

Originally posted by humbo
I believe the V-Spec and V-Spec II models with ATTESSA also have better suspension and other performance oriented changes than the GTS models. So a GTR with the ATTESSA disabled will still have differences with the GTS other than the weight. Um is that correct?

yes there are many differences such as brakes, turbos, underbody diffusers, etc. I'm one of the lucky few who have had the pleasure of driving a skyline in the US. Unfortunatley it was a GTT not a GTR but it was still a skyline. Once the new one is released in the US in 2007 I plan on marching straight to the dealer and buying one....well after a proper test drive that should make the sales guy wet his pants With 400 HP, AWD, Twin turbo and an anti lag system that shouldn't be to hard

If your interested in the skyline and wan't to know more feel free to stop by the skyline club (just click the link in my sig) or PM me and I'll get you an answer.

 

[advanR]

all cars are made fwd because auto manufacturers are interested in making more money rather than making a better car.

 

[OoNismoO]

Originally posted by TVRKing
Typical example of a FF car.

Ford Mondeo

why dont we have that ford car here in the US? is it new? or is it sold only in europe? that ford mondeo looks a lot better than any of the ford sedans that are being sold right now though.

 

[Duke]

Originally posted by advanR
all cars are made fwd because auto manufacturers are interested in making more money rather than making a better car.

That's a completely unfair and inaccurate statement.

For consumer cars that are not intended to be high-performance vehicles, the average FWD car is a far better layout than RWD. They are more forgiving to drive under all conditions, they are volumetrically efficient in providing the most interior space for the smallest exterior package, and they are cost-effective to manufacture, meaning they offer more value to the consumer.

In fact, I'll bet my next paycheck that the profit margin on most RWD vehicles is far higher than it is on FWD vehicles.

Like it or not, the M3 is not the perfect car for every person in the world.

 

[Jay]

Originally posted by skylineGTR_guy
The skyline does something like that automatically. It will start out in RWD and stay that way unless you decide to have a little fun and floor it, then it automatically shifts 50% of it's power to the front wheels. If you want to remain strictly RWD all you have to do is pull the fuse

i thought this only worked on the R32, later models are more complex ( i didnt do any research on this so im probably wrong)

and wouldnt it be better to put a switch in there so you could turn it on from inside the car

 

[skylineGTR_guy]

Originally posted by VIPERGTSR01
i thought this only worked on the R32, later models are more complex ( i didnt do any research on this so im probably wrong)

and wouldnt it be better to put a switch in there so you could turn it on from inside the car

I know you can't do it on the R-34, thats why the directors of 2f2f decided to drop the front driveshaft what asses.... I'll ask sean about the R-33

 

[slimer90210]

Originally posted by neon_duke
Like it or not, the M3 is not the perfect car for every person in the world.

No car is THE perfect car for EVERYONE. Different peoples need different cars. The sad truth is MOST people couldn't handle a FR can in all conditions, thats why for many people their car driveline of choice is FF.....

 

[Glut]

I don't know many people who can handle a high power fwd vehicle in difficult conditions, either.
awds are perfect for everyone!

 

[skylineGTR_guy]

MOST people should stick to walking

 

[Takumi Fujiwara]

I'm pretty sure the fuse trick only works on the R32.

BTW, there's another use for the trick. It's not common, but there are people who drift a GTR. It's really impressive when it's done, too. The only real problem: the car's power. The tires are smooth after one run.

 

[Jay]

ive got a mate that had a R32 GTR and he used to pull the fuse, now he's got an R33 GTR and ive never seen him do it to the R33 (although i dont see him very much only when we go out for street drags)

 

[slimer90210]

Originally posted by skylineGTR_guy
MOST people should stick to walking

Right On. Right On.

 

[skylineGTR_guy]

Originally posted by slimer90210
Right On. Right On.

It's true, I mean just look around at how badly most people drive.

 

[Scaff]

Originally posted by slimer90210
No car is THE perfect car for EVERYONE. Different peoples need different cars. The sad truth is MOST people couldn't handle a FR can in all conditions, thats why for many people their car driveline of choice is FF.....

Hate to break the news to you, but about 80-90% of car owners would not be able to tell you if the car they own is FF or FR.

Generally only car enthusiasts will know (or care), for Mr & Mrs Average, they want cheap, economical, lots of room inside and safe. Driving dynamics and drivetrain layout don't even appear on their list of requirments.

As for FR cars being dangerous in the wet, well yes that can be true of cars with a high power output, but for the average saloon (i.e. in the UK BMW 316,318, Lexus IS200) its not true. These cars and a number like them will understeer before the back steps out of line and with the limited power its unlikely that most people will be troubled by this. They will ease off the power before they get that far.

In true the entire 'which drivetrain layout is best' argument is far to simplistic. Best for what?

For example

Interior space - well FF has the lot beaten here
Handling - MR, but only if the driver has the talent.

See clarify the question and its not that simple to get a consistent answer.

It also depends on the car in question, The BMW Z3 is FR, but its a poor car to drive; The Intergra Type-R is FF, but drive one and you would be hard pushed to tell.

I've worked in the motor industry for most of my adult life and can tell you that the drive towards FF is customer lead, they want cheap, safe cars with lots of room inside and FF meets the needs of the majority.

 

[slimer90210]

Originally posted by Scaff
As for FR cars being dangerous in the wet, well yes that can be true of cars with a high power output, but for the average saloon (i.e. in the UK BMW 316,318, Lexus IS200) its not true. These cars and a number like them will understeer before the back steps out of line and with the limited power its unlikely that most people will be troubled by this. They will ease off the power before they get that far.

If rain is the worse thing you every have to drive in then you are lucky. And in that case you would be right but rain and wet don't even make my list of 'bad conditions'. When I say bad conditions I mean snow and most of all ICE. Now most people couldn't handle most underpowered FR car on a nice sheet of ice, and alot of them can't even handle FF's or AWD's on ice in my expirience...

 

[slimer90210]

Originally posted by Scaff
Hate to break the news to you, but about 80-90% of car owners would not be able to tell you if the car they own is FF or FR.

Oh and most 'average car owners' I know do know and care whether their car is FF or FR.

 

[skylineGTR_guy]

I found out about tthe atessa on the GTRs. It turns out that on both the R33 and R34 you must drop the driveshaft because even if you pull the fuse it will remain active due to some backup power system. On the R32 you can just pull the fuse.

 

[Scaff]

Originally posted by slimer90210
Oh and most 'average car owners' I know do know and care whether their car is FF or FR.

If you are going to quote me at least get it right, to read that in full it should be:

"Hate to break the news to you, but about 80-90% of car owners would not be able to tell you if the car they own is FF or FR.

Generally only car enthusiasts will know (or care), for Mr & Mrs Average, they want cheap, economical, lots of room inside and safe. Driving dynamics and drivetrain layout don't even appear on their list of requirments."

I've worked with marketing and demographic material on ownership issues and purchase intentions in the motor industry (in the UK) for the last seven years and while enthusiasts will know the drivetrain layout, most average (and i'm talking true average, not your friends) people will not know or care.

To get true figures of this nature you do not speak to a small sample of people, you need to obtain figures from 10,000+. Its been done and the results are very clear, what people want is cheap, economical, safe and lots of room.

 

[Jay]

Originally posted by skylineGTR_guy
I found out about tthe atessa on the GTRs. It turns out that on both the R33 and R34 you must drop the driveshaft because even if you pull the fuse it will remain active due to some backup power system. On the R32 you can just pull the fuse.

that what i thought

 

[Famine]

Originally posted by Scaff
I've worked with marketing and demographic material on ownership issues and purchase intentions in the motor industry (in the UK) for the last seven years and while enthusiasts will know the drivetrain layout, most average (and i'm talking true average, not your friends) people will not know or care.

To get true figures of this nature you do not speak to a small sample of people, you need to obtain figures from 10,000+. Its been done and the results are very clear, what people want is cheap, economical, safe and lots of room.

Location: Swindon, UK.

slimer - Scaff knows what he's talking about. I could hazard a very good guess as to what part of the UK motor industry he works for too...

 

[retsmah]

I just got an MR2, mid engined is fun but it's terrible for space efficiency. The MR2 is roughly the same size as my Civic, but only has two seats and a couple of small and smaller trunks. With the rear seats folded down I could fit everything I own in the similarly sized Civic, or I could fit two adults and three kids or small adults.

 

[300ZX_lover]

The old one? Turbo? Even if it isn't thats still an awesome car...new body style does'nt appeal to me as much but nevertheless, congrats!

How's the drive in an MR? Is it at all like an FR? (anyone can answer. )

As far as wet driving in an FR goes, I still get a little antsy when it rains b/c a little too much gas after 3000 rpm's and I will get noticeable wheel-spin. Tires: 225/50 ZR16 all around. Then again I don't have traction control...
In my car, quick shifts and low rpm's= safety

 

[DrIft ProJeCt R]

Originally posted by Scaff
Hate to break the news to you, but about 80-90% of car owners would not be able to tell you if the car they own is FF or FR.

Generally only car enthusiasts will know (or care), for Mr & Mrs Average, they want cheap, economical, lots of room inside and safe. Driving dynamics and drivetrain layout don't even appear on their list of requirments.

As for FR cars being dangerous in the wet, well yes that can be true of cars with a high power output, but for the average saloon (i.e. in the UK BMW 316,318, Lexus IS200) its not true. These cars and a number like them will understeer before the back steps out of line and with the limited power its unlikely that most people will be troubled by this. They will ease off the power before they get that far.

In true the entire 'which drivetrain layout is best' argument is far to simplistic. Best for what?

For example

Interior space - well FF has the lot beaten here
Handling - MR, but only if the driver has the talent.

See clarify the question and its not that simple to get a consistent answer.

It also depends on the car in question, The BMW Z3 is FR, but its a poor car to drive; The Intergra Type-R is FF, but drive one and you would be hard pushed to tell.

I've worked in the motor industry for most of my adult life and can tell you that the drive towards FF is customer lead, they want cheap, safe cars with lots of room inside and FF meets the needs of the majority.

right on man just saying. the z3 is ment for more for the average man (or women) as for the integra type r (i tink ur talkin about the dc5) is ment for the person who want a sleek, race ready car. Its just common sence that a person who wants tp buy a car that is reasonable, but still has its "mean side". But we must also look at this at a nother way. FF are good cars (such as civics) but they cant be as pushed to the edge as hard as a FR can. its also like a ff or more know for being small but quick common cars, but there is also some cars that are big that are ff (dodge intrepid). lots of enthusest for drifting "only suggest" that u use 4 wheel drives and fr's. but i have seen ff's drift and it is highly possible to drift almost anything.. just every1 common sence that u dont drift a van or a truck witch is just ludicris. so im on your side of the issue of the fr vs. ff contriversue.