Why is Enthusia so unknown?

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Ryan81

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Most people I've asked have never heard of Enthusia, which I found surprising since it does contain 211 cars, many of which aren't in GT4. I would have thought that fans of racing games would have come across it by now.....I happened to come across it on amazon when I was looking for some fresh driving games for my ps2.
Thankfully, I took a chance and it paid off well 👍
 
Subpar marketing effort; untimely release date (see Forza Motorsport); physics unfriendly to the beginner or casual player; quirky game modes, menus and music; less graphics sharpness than GT4; only two distinct real-world tracks; and mediocre reviews. The game was kinda common knowledge for a while, but most people that tried it hated it, so it faded into the background as just another one of those mediocre racing games that no one plays.

Enthusia really had the cards stacked against it, looking back. :lol:
 
Because most people don't know good racing games when they see them. Maybe I'm cranky because my Houston Rockets lost their series with the Jazz (again), but I'll show my reasons why. Forgive me if I seem to be too angry in typing this post up. Have a few minutes on you?

--- The Basics ---
Enthusia is so unknown simply because not a lot of people cared. It was just another boring GT4 clone to many people. GT4 and Forza were still battling among themselves. Most people don't really look on the shelves to see Enthusia. Read all the stuff I've posted showing my support of Enthusia Professional Racing. This is a good game. Maybe not a great game, but much better than what most people take it for. You could race on a track with falling precipitation- GT4 and Forza doesn't. You can race six cars on a wet track- Forza doesn't have any at all while GT4 had only 2 for a track. Enthusia has an amazing lighting system- GT4 and Forza lack this. It even has point-to-point events, a more refined rally racing experience than its competitors, and even downhill touge racing! But why did people not care? Not much exciting. You know, EVERY racing game has to be Forza- demolition derby damage, online play, six-figure exclusive superexotics, annoying and ear-bleeding rock music... and Enthusia was overlooked.


--- Reviews and Criticisms; True Fans vs. Mainstream ---
Just because a game has jazzy music and mediocre rock music (I did love Pacific Gateway's theme) doesn't mean it can't be a good racing game. If people weren't so stupid and insensitive as to what makes a good racing game (at least the bare essentials), people would have given Enthusia a better chance. But because of this, it's supposed to be collecting dust on store shelves and getting bad reviews by gaming media (according to the haters). All I ever read is "mediocre," "not very good," "cars driving like on ice," and stuff like that. Some of that may just be true. I just wished more people gave this game a chance. I love Gran Turismo 4. I've grown to respect the Forza series. However, more people should have given Enthusia much more credit than it deserved. But why didn't it?


--- Why Forgotten? ---
The politically correct answer is that this game didn't have too much to offer for the casual gamer. The personal (as in mine) answer is that most people still don't know what a good game has as opposed to how gaming is today. I'm still an old-fashioned thinker with games. I still always say that online gaming is never a requirement no matter who challenges my claim. A game doesn't need damage, but it helps. And if you do damage, do it right to the point where it's acceptable for casual gamers. Do it wrong, and it may prove too challenging and almost virtually unplayable. There was another game around this time that Enthusia was up against among racing games- "Burnout 3: Takedown." More people were either into GT4, Forza, or Burnout 3 than Enthusia. Racing games have nowadays been about crashing other cars. That's it. Racing's overrated, not everyone wants to be the next best racing hero, it's just about taking cars (licensed or non-licensed) and crashing them all day long. If a game didn't have this kind of ability to wreck cars, it was not worth the money. It's just all these things that contributed to Enthusia not being looked at with any real consideration. And this is one more thing in Enthusia's favor- it costed about 20 dollars... and well worth it even with $50 GT4 and Forza at the time. Konami must have felt like they failed their world of fans by coming out with Enthusia and not making it compete with GT4 and Forza (or just GT4 since this is a PS2-only title).


--- In Conclusion... ---
Why was Enthusia forgotten? The mainstream and all the greedy and obsessive things that mainstreamers make gaming dark horses look like lame ducks. For the rest of the world, Enthusia was a GREAT game no matter what IGNore, GameSpot, X-Play, or whoever the hell else have a bone to pick with this game. Haven't played EPR yet? It's cheaply-priced and a better game than what most people give (or lack thereof) it credit for. Find out yourself what mainstreamers and gaming media failed to realize about Enthusia.
 
JohnBM01
Because most people don't know good racing games when they see them. Maybe I'm cranky because my Houston Rockets lost their series with the Jazz (again), but I'll show my reasons why. Forgive me if I seem to be too angry in typing this post up. Have a few minutes on you?

--- The Basics ---
Enthusia is so unknown simply because not a lot of people cared. It was just another boring GT4 clone to many people. GT4 and Forza were still battling among themselves. Most people don't really look on the shelves to see Enthusia. Read all the stuff I've posted showing my support of Enthusia Professional Racing. This is a good game. Maybe not a great game, but much better than what most people take it for. You could race on a track with falling precipitation- GT4 and Forza doesn't. You can race six cars on a wet track- Forza doesn't have any at all while GT4 had only 2 for a track. Enthusia has an amazing lighting system- GT4 and Forza lack this. It even has point-to-point events, a more refined rally racing experience than its competitors, and even downhill touge racing! But why did people not care? Not much exciting. You know, EVERY racing game has to be Forza- demolition derby damage, online play, six-figure exclusive superexotics, annoying and ear-bleeding rock music... and Enthusia was overlooked.


--- Reviews and Criticisms; True Fans vs. Mainstream ---
Just because a game has jazzy music and mediocre rock music (I did love Pacific Gateway's theme) doesn't mean it can't be a good racing game. If people weren't so stupid and insensitive as to what makes a good racing game (at least the bare essentials), people would have given Enthusia a better chance. But because of this, it's supposed to be collecting dust on store shelves and getting bad reviews by gaming media (according to the haters). All I ever read is "mediocre," "not very good," "cars driving like on ice," and stuff like that. Some of that may just be true. I just wished more people gave this game a chance. I love Gran Turismo 4. I've grown to respect the Forza series. However, more people should have given Enthusia much more credit than it deserved. But why didn't it?


--- Why Forgotten? ---
The politically correct answer is that this game didn't have too much to offer for the casual gamer. The personal (as in mine) answer is that most people still don't know what a good game has as opposed to how gaming is today. I'm still an old-fashioned thinker with games. I still always say that online gaming is never a requirement no matter who challenges my claim. A game doesn't need damage, but it helps. And if you do damage, do it right to the point where it's acceptable for casual gamers. Do it wrong, and it may prove too challenging and almost virtually unplayable. There was another game around this time that Enthusia was up against among racing games- "Burnout 3: Takedown." More people were either into GT4, Forza, or Burnout 3 than Enthusia. Racing games have nowadays been about crashing other cars. That's it. Racing's overrated, not everyone wants to be the next best racing hero, it's just about taking cars (licensed or non-licensed) and crashing them all day long. If a game didn't have this kind of ability to wreck cars, it was not worth the money. It's just all these things that contributed to Enthusia not being looked at with any real consideration. And this is one more thing in Enthusia's favor- it costed about 20 dollars... and well worth it even with $50 GT4 and Forza at the time. Konami must have felt like they failed their world of fans by coming out with Enthusia and not making it compete with GT4 and Forza (or just GT4 since this is a PS2-only title).


--- In Conclusion... ---
Why was Enthusia forgotten? The mainstream and all the greedy and obsessive things that mainstreamers make gaming dark horses look like lame ducks. For the rest of the world, Enthusia was a GREAT game no matter what IGNore, GameSpot, X-Play, or whoever the hell else have a bone to pick with this game. Haven't played EPR yet? It's cheaply-priced and a better game than what most people give (or lack thereof) it credit for. Find out yourself what mainstreamers and gaming media failed to realize about Enthusia.
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Thanks for your long and rather detailed explanation, John :)

I have already found out what gaming media and mainstreamers failed to realize (I never take any notice what they say, anyway). I've always been a massive car fan and when I saw all the cars in Enthusia that weren't in GT4, I just had to get it. Glad I did. For me, it's not important whether the tracks are real-life ones or fantasy ones. What's important is the gaming experience and personally, I prefer driving simulators like EPR and GT4 to arcade-style racing games like the NFS series, although I do like it a lot, too.
 
I think Wolfe and John said it all. EPR had great advantages over the competition, but those were maybe the reason why it was unsuccessful. I'll just name a few:

a) Odds system making you chose "underdog" cars, and no incentive to crush the competition with "the better car". I think that was brilliant, but mainstream players complained about it;

b) "touching other cars" and "going off track" penalties made GT3 players learn how to win races avoiding cheating technics. I think that was brilliant, but mainstream players complained about it;

c) physics. I think they were brilliant, but mainstream players complained about it;


However, on the positive side, from all information I get from GT5P players, I think PD was more aware of what EPR had to offer than their own fanboys. What I hear from friends that were EPR players like myself is that GT5P's low-speed physics are a big improvement from GT4's.

Maybe I'm wrong, but I think we have to be thankful to Konami for leveling up the bar. And to PD for noticing it.
 
Everything that Wolfe has pointed out about why EPR failed to win popularity is true. However, to my mind the biggest shortcoming with EPR was that it didn't offer good AI & collision physics. With a lack of online or even LAN support it meant that it worked best for running Time Trials rather than actual racing.

There are some other annoying things about EPR too: the penalty system works well in Time Trials, but is too finicky for racing, forcing you to avoid any kind of contact - even the occasional "rubbing" that takes place in tight racing. (The lack of a "look-back" view, & impossible "mirror-view" also makes tight racing too difficult).

Whether PD paid any attention to EPR, I couldn't say, but the physics in GT5P are much improved over GT4. Controlling powerful FR or MR cars is as difficult as it is in EPR & the feel of the steering with a wheel is better than in EPR.
 
It's probably because everyone was too busy playing GT4. Or in my case I got bored of playing GT4 and did not really want to pick-up another console racer.
 
The steering feel improvement is probably a direct consequence of increasing the rate at which the physics are calculated. I've played with the frequency in a few PC games, and the rubberiness is a direct consequence of it. Blame the PS2's lack of grunt. Still, great to hear GT5 is that much improved. Can you do doughnuts yet?

EPR failed because it wasn't a well constructed game. It has a simulation core, wrapped up in arcadey crap. The menu system is awful and the tuning system is massively constrictive. The collision detection should have been more detailed to operate a system as harsh as Enthusia's, but you can't blame Konami for having a crack at fixing GT's biggest problem (rail riding, ai bashing).

The car selection was fantastic compared to GT4's, they actually had a good representation of the brands involved (GT4 missed the important volvos, alfas, and abarths!!), and there wasn't a concept car to be seen! My god, i am so f'ing sick of seeing concept cars in GT games...

If EPR had online play it would have taken a big chunk of GT4's audience (GT4 was delayed for a year to include online, then it was scrapped!). To the average gamer, EPR didn't offer as much as GT4 so it needed to sidestep the competition with a mega-feature. :P

RBR suffered the same issues as EPR. If it had more content, if it was more of a whole game, it would have sold like crazy. The driving model is superb, as is the damage and graphics, but it was a small game (which i am still playing to this day...).
 
Does anyone think that there will be a next gen Enthusia or they wont bother due to the small uptake of the previous game (however good it was)?

Robin
 
cubits
Still, great to hear GT5 is that much improved. Can you do doughnuts yet?
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yes but its alittle bit flawed, no where near as good as Forza 2....EPR is still better than GT5P!You still cant do figure 8/'s and there is no real inertia when the donuts swing around.
 
RBR suffered the same issues as EPR. If it had more content, if it was more of a whole game, it would have sold like crazy. The driving model is superb, as is the damage and graphics, but it was a small game (which i am still playing to this day...).
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I'm not sure that's true. Although there is a core sim-racing audience. I suspect that in order to sell really big numbers, a game has to appeal to a much wider audience. PD has included a much easier "Standard" physics in GT5P to address that issue & I think the GT series continues to do well partly based on its reputation & history as the ground-breaking console driving-sim.

yes but its alittle bit flawed, no where near as good as Forza 2....EPR is still better than GT5P!You still cant do figure 8/'s and there is no real inertia when the donuts swing around.
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Yes, it's not perfect, but I'm amazed you would say it's not as good as Forza 2 or EPR. The combination of the physics (yes, there isn't perhaps the "inertia" of EPR, but everything else is very significantly better), superb in-car view & G25 H-shifter & clutch support, put it in a class of its own IMO. Now if they can add decent AI, collision physics & damage...
 
Pro race car drivers make contact at times. Pro race drivers make blunders on the race track. The fact that EPR's style doesn't allow for what I like to call... acts of character are completely devoid and unable to be executed in EPR. EPR isn't an all-out fist fight in racing. Just the simple fact of leaving the course even slightly lands you a penalty. I sometimes go over curbs a lot. One tire off the actual race track results in a penalty. All I'm saying is that having some of these character moments on the track would make Enthusia much more fun instead of being a truly profesisonal-minded and not-as-fun experience. The game seems more like a test of handling a car properly on the track rather than racing to victory. Some races can be pretty frustrating. And I'm not just talking about doing ANY racing on the Nürburgring Nordschleife (which forces you to do three Black Flag-free laps in the Free Run mode), I'm talking about going around the Wintertraum and stuff.

I've taken an angry tone because gaming media and mainstream gamers make me upset, especially those that make stupid ass claims on games. The EB110 (not a Bugatti in the game) is one of the cars not even in Forza, let alone in GT4. The big pickup for me in the game was getting the Mercedes-Benz SLR McLaren. While it's hated among supercar types, it's a potent car. You may even select different transmission options. Almost every game has Automatic or Manual transmission types. Enthusia went further: Automatic, Semi-Automatic, Shift Assist, Manual, and stuff like that. Enthusia has mostly nailed most of the street cars. I even noted that beeping sound in some Mazdas wanting you to upshift at the point of the beep. I still think more race cars should have been in the game. This game has the everday car variety seen in GT games, even if Enthusia's everday cars are different compared to GT4's (Forza is mostly a sports car and compact deal, so I won't mention them). Enthusia was a game where you could enjoy driving even in a van. You may even get to ride the only RWD van in the game- the Nissan Elgrand.

Enthusia wasn't going to appeal to tradional racing gamers. Even in the E3 it was featured in, I thought EPR was GT4 or a GT4 clone. My run from RN to RS has fueled my own personal feelings of the game as I analyzed every detail available to me. This included the tracks, graphical touches, driving characteristics, variety of cars, types of races, and that sort of thing. I loved Pacific Gateway and Löwenseering in Enthusia. "Take No Losers" (Pacific Gateway) was my favorite song in the game. My weapon of choice was the Mercedes-Benz SLR McLaren. Its backup is my Midnight Blue with White Stripe Ford GT. I've loved it as a casual sim gamer. Why most other greedy and insensitive gaming media and mainstreamers didn't like this is beyond me. I know a game can't appeal to everyone, but damn it... give Enthusia a chance! You made Konami feel like they should be ashamed for making Enthusia. It's not like Enthusia was "Big Rigs: Over the Road Racing" (You're Winner!). That was my emotional look at why this game was overlooked.
 
Biggles
Yes, it's not perfect, but I'm amazed you would say it's not as good as Forza 2 or EPR. The combination of the physics (yes, there isn't perhaps the "inertia" of EPR, but everything else is very significantly better), superb in-car view & G25 H-shifter & clutch support, put it in a class of its own IMO. Now if they can add decent AI, collision physics & damage...
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I spoke of the doughnut physics only.........I really love all the other (medium to high speed physics) stuff.
JohnBM01, I do a little club racing/track days from time to time and can tell you that if I "rub" panels with someone it'll cost money and all the rest so I always liked the black flag thing for EPR. I just wish GT5 will make you pay for damage in the game to make it more realistic
 
I at least have my "character moments." Part of racing for me. I'm not known to be a hard ass, but I can be Texas tough in my racing. As X-Play's AAdam Sessler said in a GT4 review, "feel free to slam away" in relation to no damage model. I can think of Sega GT 2002 in which rubbing isn't racing. I've never played Sega GT 2002. I'm just going on stuff I've read in magazines.
 
it would pain me to see "charactar moments" forced upon a beautiful 599 Fiorano (in real life and sim) but if we was racin Nascar or any other type of race car, I wouldnt care as much because thats par for the course as they say.
 
All I'm saying is, racing is a contact sport. It shouldn't be, but there are those moments when racers and race cars have their character moments. Look at last year when Danica Patrick didn't want to put up with Dan Wheldon and pointed a finger in his face. Think of Kyle Busch whacking Dale Earnhardt Jr. in the closing laps at Richmond this past Saturday. And don't even get me started with rally racers wrecking their cars. All I'm saying is that contact happens. Just don't penalize us like we broke every Cardinal rule of racing. I don't like the perfectionist kind of thing.
 
Enthusia got on my nerves really quickly. The fact that I had to win races without any black fags in "single race" mode to unlock the cars was ridiculous. If the computer tapped me, that'd be a black flag. If I put 2 wheels on the grass by mistake, black flag. So on.
 
To be honest I remember when EPR came I saw all the commercials it didn't strike as something i got to have. Then the reviews portrayed it as a mediocre hard to drive game so I passed over it. If I hadn't heard about folks here talking about it, I wouldn't have given the game a chance. I like it okay the it was as hard as I heard to drive. I think what a lot of people find frustrating is the lottery system to win cars. Also the leveling up system being tied to how well you race can be a bit annoying sometimes. That would probably be enough to off most casual gamers. It seems crazy after a hard fought race that you get no reward.
 
JohnBM01
All I'm saying is, racing is a contact sport. It shouldn't be, but there are those moments when racers and race cars have their character moments. Look at last year when Danica Patrick didn't want to put up with Dan Wheldon and pointed a finger in his face. Think of Kyle Busch whacking Dale Earnhardt Jr. in the closing laps at Richmond this past Saturday. And don't even get me started with rally racers wrecking their cars. All I'm saying is that contact happens. Just don't penalize us like we broke every Cardinal rule of racing. I don't like the perfectionist kind of thing.
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the crash physics in a game should be penalty alone 👍 but i understand where youre comming from. EPR tuff rules just took a little discipline which in the end made u pick your moments when overtaking...........something thats missing in GT5p bump and ram allowance.
 
my two cents......GT4 is an amazing game (GT3 was better though), but the driving physics in Enthusia feels a lot more realistic than in GT4. But although Enthusia felt better, GT4 was just a bit more appealing.................as a side note though, I recently picked back up GT 1 and was having more fun driving than I had in GT4
 
Enthusia is very german in it's need for precision, I personally like it because it teaches me how to drive better in GT4 and 5.
 
Yup, no one knows about the game, even the hard core fans don't know it. I think only one of my friends knew about it, and they said they tried it. But yeah, VERY underated for such an incredible game. Personally i enjoy it more than Toca or GT4.
 
I think it's partially that Namco is used to arcade games, and that everyone accociates Namco with arcade games, and the whole thing was basically regarded as a foolish venture.

Most sim fans disregarded it, seeing it was made by Namco, and anyone who bought it because it was made by Namco was dissapointed by it's difficult realism. In my opinion, it was unfortunately destined to fail.

And, of course, there was basically no advertisement, which killed it terribly. Funny that the perfect commercial for Enthusia would be the bonus video that it shows when you don't "PRESS START BUTTON".

EDIT: Okay, I fail. Konami, not Namco.
 
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Nice posts John. It's interesting to hear about what Enthusia is like - it's a game I don't own yet, and I only heard about because I joined this forum - otherwise I'd never have known about it, or at least disregarded it not knowing it was a realistic racer. I intend to buy it some time soon, because I'm happy to leave GT4 and GT5P for a while, given that I don't have much time to play games at the moment anyway, but when I do I'd like to have something new.
 
I am actually asking for Enthusia for Christmas. I have passed it up too many times, when I didn't know much about it. But since Enthusia and GT4 were compared, I checked it out. I'm hoping to get it because of the amount of cars, realism and good tracks like Nurburgring and others. Can't wait!! :) -kevin
 
Recently the failure of my Xbox 360 (less than one year old Elite, nice work MS) led me to dust down the six year old PS2. A few minutes of GT4 and I remembered how out-of-its-depth the physics are with the big power cars (tire models in particular are pretty disgraceful). As I was about to pack up the PS2, somewhat dejected, I remembered Enthusia... So I deleted my old Enthusia save game and started a fresh! What a joyous physics model, and hey, how many other games are there that give you the comedy of racing a Toyota Aristo through the desert against a Renault 5 Turbo?! My love for enthusia has developed all over again, and such a sublime choice of cars!

Enthusia is easily the most underrated auto sim of all time - the physics model is an example not just to the PS2, but to auto sims in general, especially the loose surface modelling which is truly superb. How they got it so wildly wrong in GT4 I will never know. Enthusia is a credit to Konami and the people who appreciate it for what it is - one things for sure, I attribute its status as an unknown to the fact that the physics are just too hardcore for the masses, and without a DFP there is almost no point in playing, but with that wheel - it comes alive, at the moment I dont miss the 360 at all!
 

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