Why is most of the GTPlanet community so Un-Grateful?

[ajns73]

It has been the norm for years now. I do not see it changing anytime soon. It started on PC quite a ways back, and now its all over.

Its good and bad. Great that bugs could be patched out, and features added. Bad that it makes QC less extentensive.

There are still companies that release solid games, and kill any missed bugs shortly after release. I have to say FM4 release was good and solid and the one huge bug with the assist steering got fixed in good time. Then you have a game like Shift2 that was unplayble with a wheel at release. 2 patches later, and it still has game breaking bugs (except on PC that had a 3rd patch AND a community made one), and then all support was pulled.

In a nutshell, DLC and patches are comman place now, and will be here for a looong time to come.

I agree with the dichotomy, but what I find really interesting is how I reacted to the last line. I found myself thinking, "When was the last time that I honestly felt that DLC was an addition to a game and not a bone thrown to make up for a failed first/second/third attempt. I'll also add, that developers today have a bigger challenge from a hacking standpoint than was ever the case before.

 

[kimi123]

It has been the norm for years now. I do not see it changing anytime soon. It started on PC quite a ways back, and now its all over.

Its good and bad. Great that bugs could be patched out, and features added. Bad that it makes QC less extentensive.

There are still companies that release solid games, and kill any missed bugs shortly after release. I have to say FM4 release was good and solid and the one huge bug with the assist steering got fixed in good time. Then you have a game like Shift2 that was unplayble with a wheel at release. 2 patches later, and it still has game breaking bugs (except on PC that had a 3rd patch AND a community made one), and then all support was pulled.


In a nutshell, DLC are comman place now, and will be here for a looong time to come.

Fixed

Updates that GT5 has got is rare and not seen in other games. They could have easily throw in the towel and said we will listen to the fans reactions, feedback for the next game.

 

[CSLACR]

This may point to the heart of the matter. The fact is that regardless of what this game is called or how a non-player would conceive of it, it is many things to many people among those that actually play it. For me, the last 2 updates were great. However, I am a collector first, racer second (as I have realized over the past few months). I couldn't care less about racing online, but I sure would be ticked off if I couldn't trade cars, gear, etc.

In the end, a blanket statement about anyone who voices an opinion about an update is counterproductive. There are too many variables to objectively determine the true value of one update over another. I can find just as many "collectors" that think the last two updates were spot on as someone else can find "online racers" that are still upset about the state of online racing. What is very easy to determine is what constitutes the proper way to voice an opinion and how one should comport themselves in public. In this regard, there have been transgressions on both sides of the argument. I have no quarrel with someone who voices a reasoned complaint about an update. I do have a problem with folks who go all out in one direction or another either demonizing or deifying GT5, PD, or Kaz himself and do so without regard for good sense or decorum.

Overall very well put.👍

I also don't care for people who state opinion as objective fact. It may seem like a semantic argument, but it really rubs me the wrong way when people say "What PD should do is X instead of X." I'd much rather read, "I wish that PD had done X," or "If it was me, I would do X." Part of the reason some threads degenerate is precisely because of this sort of thing

But this is the problem around here a lot. Everybody wants to hear "in my opinion". Who cares? Is it really that bad if the person says something that's clearly a matter of opinion, without the redundancy of saying "in my opinion"?

The black Viper ACR looks best. Why do I need to explain to anyone that this is my opinion? Seems like only an idiot would take it in any other way. Of course it's my opinion, that's all it could be.
People get far to carried away with "this 🤬 think everything he says is how it should be, let's teach him it's just his opinion". It's just internet arguing, rather than discuss the facts, people get preoccupied trying to simply prove the other guy wrong in some way.
That's 75% of your GT5 wars right there. People making to big a deal about always repeating what's their opinion, when it's not needed to say because it's so obvious.

Have you been reading from a different set of patch notes from the rest of us?

Online is the area they ignore the most?. Funny as I'd say its GT Life thats mostly gone untouched. Do you see mech damage in GT Life mode...Only if you do practice laps.

Do you see user defined races in GT Life?. MIA.

All the options that came with GT5 and included in the updates, have been reserved for either online or arcade modes. If GT Life gets anything, you can guarantee its sloppy seconds.

Not great when its always been GT's core component since the series started. When I want to have a good race, GT Life is the last place i'll look now.

Yet, do I whinge about it every 5 minutes, no. I say my piece and hope PD hears and talk about the things in GT5 we can enjoy instead of bringing doom & gloom

The options they've added to online lobbies are awesome. 👍

It doesn't matter when half the room gets disconnected because GT5's servers suck, does it?

 

[Vaxxtx]

I agree with the dichotomy, but what I find really interesting is how I reacted to the last line. I found myself thinking, "When was the last time that I honestly felt that DLC was an addition to a game and not a bone thrown to make up for a failed first/second/third attempt. I'll also add, that developers today have a bigger challenge from a hacking standpoint than was ever the case before.

To be honest the last DLC that I got and felt it was an addition was Shift2's Legends pack. Old tracks like Monza 1958, Hockenhiem 1981, Silverstone 1971, Rouen 1952, and a large pack of "Legends" racing cars, and a whole set of career races. The furthest one I remember wasnt called DLC, but an expansion pack for Mechwarrior on the PC .

But even with Forza 's great DLC packs, I agree I dont get the feeling of a huge addition like in the old days of PC gaming. With GT5 it feels almost an afterthought....like giving someone a cheese sampler for X-Mas.

Fixed

Updates that this game has got is rare and not seen in other games. They could have easily throw in the towel and said we will listen to the fans reactions, feedback for the next game.

No, you didnt "fix" my post.

Its not rare for a game to get updated to be up to par with what was said to be in it. The only rare part is the fact it is taking them so long. If you go to a restaraunt and order a food and it comes out in teacup size portions, do you sit there for 6 hours, and thank them for bringing you anything?

Again the big updates and DLC came out on FM4 release date. I bet GT5 would not have seen any updates if FM4 was not released.

 

[xxDingerxx]

The options they've added to online lobbies are awesome. It doesn't matter when half the room gets disconnected because GT5's servers suck, does it?

That sounds more like a P2P issue more than anything. It pretty much happens with most P2P games out there since this gen started. All it takes is just one person with a crap connection to bring that server to its knees. Two or more people...The server has virtually no chance.

The best P2P games out there, usually have a very simple function. Bandwidth bars next to each individual, so the host knows who to kick before everyone else gets booted.

Maybe that is an option PD should look into, as I bet the majority of issues would simply cease to be if it was implemented

 

[kimi123]

To be honest the last DLC that I got and felt it was an addition was Shift2's Legends pack. Old tracks like Monza 1958, Hockenhiem 1981, Silverstone 1971, Rouen 1952, and a large pack of "Legends" racing cars, and a whole set of career races. The furthest one I remember wasnt called DLC, but an expansion pack for Mechwarrior on the PC .

But even with Forza 's great DLC packs, I agree I dont get the feeling of a huge addition like in the old days of PC gaming. With GT5 it feels almost an afterthought....like giving someone a cheese sampler for X-Mas.



No, you didnt "fix" my post.

Its not rare for a game to get updated to be up to par with what was said to be in it. The only rare part is the fact it is taking them so long. If you go to a restaraunt and order a food and it comes out in teacup size portions, do you sit there for 6 hours, and thank them for bringing you anything?

Again the big updates and DLC came out on FM4 release date. I bet GT5 would not have seen any updates if FM4 was not released.

No other game does it. I mentioned already in my previous post millions have bought this game this year or recently and many are going to next year as well. For those who purchased the game on release have got major fixes already. Forza as usual is a rushed game with only 5 tracks added. Along with season pass it is close to 100$, what a joke lol.

 

[kilttraeger]

The options they've added to online lobbies are awesome. 👍

It doesn't matter when half the room gets disconnected because GT5's servers suck, does it?

There are no GT5 servers hosting your lobby.

 

[omgitsbees]

It's GT5s netcode that is really awful.

 

[ajns73]

Overall very well put.👍

But this is the problem around here a lot. Everybody wants to hear "in my opinion". Who cares? Is it really that bad if the person says something that's clearly a matter of opinion, without the redundancy of saying "in my opinion"?

The black Viper ACR looks best. Why do I need to explain to anyone that this is my opinion? Seems like only an idiot would take it in any other way. Of course it's my opinion, that's all it could be.
People get far to carried away with "this 🤬 think everything he says is how it should be, let's teach him it's just his opinion". It's just internet arguing, rather than discuss the facts, people get preoccupied trying to simply prove the other guy wrong in some way.
That's 75% of your GT5 wars right there. People making to big a deal about always repeating what's their opinion, when it's not needed to say because it's so obvious...

Like I said, it can seem like a semantic argument for precisely the reasons you state. And I agree wholeheartedly that far too often people take what should be understood as opinion as fact just for the sake of setting up a straw man for their argument-de-jour. Personally, it rubs me wrong, especially when someone sets up a nice reasoned and logical post and then gets to the hard part and instead of finding a way to make it work or just dropping it, they throw in an opinion stated as fact hoping it will get lost in the rest and no one will call them on their ********. Your mileage may vary. I certainly wouldn't start a battle over it.

 

[ajns73]

To be honest the last DLC that I got and felt it was an addition was Shift2's Legends pack. Old tracks like Monza 1958, Hockenhiem 1981, Silverstone 1971, Rouen 1952, and a large pack of "Legends" racing cars, and a whole set of career races. The furthest one I remember wasnt called DLC, but an expansion pack for Mechwarrior on the PC .

But even with Forza 's great DLC packs, I agree I dont get the feeling of a huge addition like in the old days of PC gaming. With GT5 it feels almost an afterthought....like giving someone a cheese sampler for X-Mas.

Or worse, a fruitcake.

 

[SkateNj]

Human nature.

 

[Rudenut]

This whole thread begs a larger question about the development of games today versus the pre-patch era. I don't want to hijack the thread, but how many developers rush titles to market now knowing that they have a patch delivery system that can turn what used to be a FINAL release on disc into one last beta test? You could definitely argue that GT5 should not have had this issue as Prologue should have been enough of a last beta, but this issue has come up time and again with regard to many titles on many forums lately.

I don't believe it is an issue. Patching allows games to evolve. I do believe that gt5, on release, was unfinished and still lacks content today. However, I am happy they released what they did and continue to support it.

Important information is gathered in "one last beta" that is used to mold the game as developers learn more about what users want. This is a great time for this series...an evolutionary process. What is learned during this time will undoubtedly assist develpement of gt6 and it's evolution from release. Feedback from users is important and helpful, even if many here see it as only complaining.

One must understand that with this system possibilities are nearly limitless....but endless possibilities are still implemented one or a few at time. This means some features will take longer to implement, or never be seen at all. They will never fully satisfy everyone, but they can continue evolving the game and make an enjoyable experience for most.

I think that people need to relax...go vote on that special feature board the guys here made....can't find the link...and hope that the stuff people want the most is easily implemented. Don't get so bent out of shape just becase some avid fan has a image of what this game could be and is disappointed that it isn't. Someone might just see the opinion and agree with it...and then we may have an even better game.

 

[CSLACR]

That sounds more like a P2P issue more than anything. It pretty much happens with most P2P games out there since this gen started. All it takes is just one person with a crap connection to bring that server to its knees. Two or more people...The server has virtually no chance.

The best P2P games out there, usually have a very simple function. Bandwidth bars next to each individual, so the host knows who to kick before everyone else gets booted.

Maybe that is an option PD should look into, as I bet the majority of issues would simply cease to be if it was implemented

I'm just trying to play a video game online, I don't feel I should need a formal education on how to set up an internet connection just to be able to do that.
Maybe we disagree there.

I know people that play lots of racing games online, and GT5 is the only one that gives them problems.
I don't care if it's P2P or any other type of problem. The problem is that while other games work, GT5 does not.

There are no GT5 servers hosting your lobby.

This means nothing, thank you for a post of nothing.

You're both greatly missing the point. If people can connect and play other games just fine, including other racing games, but not GT5, then the problem lies with GT5, and not the individuals.
It's called "deductive reasoning", or logic, to the simpleton.

 

[Rudenut]

Fixed

Updates that GT5 has got is rare and not seen in other games. They could have easily throw in the towel and said we will listen to the fans reactions, feedback for the next game.

It may not be seen on console games often...but any dev team worth it's salt making pc games updates them as regularly. Often with changelogs many times as long as gt5's longest.

 

[Vaxxtx]

No other game does it. I mentioned already in my previous post millions have bought this game this year or recently and many are going to next year as well. For those who purchased the game on release have got major fixes already. Forza as usual is a rushed game with only 5 tracks added , and new cars, new graphics, new Rvials mode, leaderboards, online custom lobbies, upped from 8 players to 16, new engine swaps, new tire physics from Pirelli, new physics model, head tracking in all modes, new livery editor, new PP system, drag compund tires, autovista etc. etc. . Along with season pass it is close to 100$, what a joke lol.

Fixed for you.

So no other game get support for a year or more after, huh? So WoW, Warhammer online, NFS World, Monster Hunter, etc. etc.... point is, you are wrong. Plenty of games are fixed/updated/patched well beyond a year.

You seem to be missing the point. *IF* GT5 would have been released fixed, or fixed within a few months, they would not have to keep this continuous cycle of a years worth of "fixes". And you are calling FM4 "rushed"? . At least it is solid and features are in the game that they said would be in it.


I assume you are taking shots at FM4 because its the closet rival to GT5? I am curious if you own it, or are just going off things you have heard?

 

[ajns73]

...You're both greatly missing the point. If people can connect and play other games just fine, including other racing games, but not GT5, then the problem lies with GT5, and not the individuals.
It's called "deductive reasoning", or logic, to the simpleton.

Any chance PD just bit off more than they could chew with implementing this particular version of a racing game online? I know that probably requires more networking education than even I would like to have rattling around in my head, but what if there is just something inherent to the way that GT5 implements online racing that will not allow the volume of users GT5 has to play effectively online? I've got zero to support this idea as I have no clue where GT5 ranks in online participation compared to other titles that have a successful online component.

Not trying to pour fuel on the fire, but if this idea has merit, online may never get better in this iteration. It may be something that gets fixed for GT6.

 

[CSLACR]

I assume you are taking shots at FM4 because its the closet rival to GT5? I am curious if you own it, or are just going off things you have heard?

People take shots at FM4 to "defend" GT5.
They think somehow if FM4 is worse overall then GT5 it means there's no ground to complain about GT5.
So they try to prove FM4 worse then GT5. That's why we see FM4 get brought up constantly when we're talking about GT5.

Any chance PD just bit off more than they could chew with implementing this particular version of a racing game online? I know that probably requires more networking education than even I would like to have rattling around in my head, but what if there is just something inherent to the way that GT5 implements online racing that will not allow the volume of users GT5 has to play effectively online? I've got zero to support this idea as I have no clue where GT5 ranks in online participation compared to other titles that have a successful online component.

Not trying to pour fuel on the fire, but if this idea has merit, online may never get better in this iteration. It may be something that gets fixed for GT6.

Well, first I would say it was working great right after Spec II came out.
But beyond that, assuming there is something in what you're saying (which there could be) it's still a huge flaw in the game. To me it's ridiculous whatever the reasons may be, this game came out at the end of 2010, and it's internet functionality is sub-par, to be polite. To me there's no excuse for that.

 

[Terronium-12]

No other game does it. I mentioned already in my previous post millions have bought this game this year or recently and many are going to next year as well. For those who purchased the game on release have got major fixes already. Forza as usual is a rushed game with only 5 tracks added. Along with season pass it is close to 100$, what a joke lol.

Do you ever get tired of making yourself look like the village idiot?

Serious question.

 

[Vaxxtx]

Any chance PD just bit off more than they could chew with implementing this particular version of a racing game online? I know that probably requires more networking education than even I would like to have rattling around in my head, but what if there is just something inherent to the way that GT5 implements online racing that will not allow the volume of users GT5 has to play effectively online? I've got zero to support this idea as I have no clue where GT5 ranks in online participation compared to other titles that have a successful online component.

Not trying to pour fuel on the fire, but if this idea has merit, online may never get better in this iteration. It may be something that gets fixed for GT6.

And the issues you brought up is one of the many that should help answer the OP's original question 👍

 

[ajns73]

People take shots at FM4 to "defend" GT5.
They think somehow if FM4 is worse overall then GT5 it means there's no ground to complain about GT5.
So they try to prove FM4 worse then GT5. That's why we see FM4 get brought up constantly when we're talking about GT5.

It is not enough that I succeed, my friends must also fail.

 

[omgitsbees]

Or worse, a fruitcake.

Wouldn't wish fruitcake on even my worst enemy.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

No, you didnt "fix" my post.

Its not rare for a game to get updated to be up to par with what was said to be in it. The only rare part is the fact it is taking them so long. If you go to a restaraunt and order a food and it comes out in teacup size portions, do you sit there for 6 hours, and thank them for bringing you anything?

Again the big updates and DLC came out on FM4 release date. I bet GT5 would not have seen any updates if FM4 was not released.

^ + infinity

That is exactly it I've said the same analogy before as well. If you go and buy a car wouldn't you want the entire product they promised you and not get a tire every other month, the stero, panels, alternator, ignition, and ect over the course of a little more than a year with more pieces to come? I mean common sense says that yeah the entire car would be nice to have, same idea with what Vaxxtx is saying with the meal analogy.

Fixed for you.

So no other game get support for a year or more after, huh? So WoW, Warhammer online, NFS World, Monster Hunter, etc. etc.... point is, you are wrong. Plenty of games are fixed/updated/patched well beyond a year.

You seem to be missing the point. *IF* GT5 would have been released fixed, or fixed within a few months, they would not have to keep this continuous cycle of a years worth of "fixes". And you are calling FM4 "rushed"? . At least it is solid and features are in the game that they said would be in it.


I assume you are taking shots at FM4 because its the closet rival to GT5? I am curious if you own it, or are just going off things you have heard?

^ This

No other game does it. I mentioned already in my previous post millions have bought this game this year or recently and many are going to next year as well. For those who purchased the game on release have got major fixes already. Forza as usual is a rushed game with only 5 tracks added. Along with season pass it is close to 100$, what a joke lol.

Without the free DLC car pack + the special edition cars for buying that version of FM4 rather than the regular, then the following pack the week after and the track pack seems better. GT5 collectors addition was also $110 dollars and had just as many bugs if not more to fix. For example one could not tune their transmission when GT5 first came out and they needed a patch soon after to fix that. Seems kind of odd for such a key part to be missing from the game at the get go. However, bugs do happen. Point is you say FM4 was rushed and no one really brought up FM4, yet GT5 was rushed and had two and half times the amount of Forza and for the super duper addition those who wanted it also paid alot. Not really seeing where you've formulated a coherent argument. Yet this isn't about FM4, and I don't want GT to ever be FM as I've said in past post. The pieces that seem like FM are boring and make this GT game not seem like a gt game (i.e leveling up instead of licenses).

I also think it's a safe bet that others don't want GT to be FM, we just want things that seem like common sense. Simple things for starters, more freedom with your cars such as more tuning parts and the ability to personalize with either livery editor or some other design feature. Kaz supposedly said GT5 would have it but he was rushed so it didn't happen. Sound...FM, PGR and hell even the NFS games have a better sound than GT5 does and GT sounds has been an issue series wise not game wise. I remember people always complaining (before joining the forum) that GT2-GT4, when tunning a V8 to the max you always got a I4 or V6t sound in the end. Also last but not least diversity, something that this time around forza also has. These are not things people want because forza has them, they want them because it's just common sense to have them as well as being alot more realistic than the limited set up.

 

[W3H5]

Why is most of the GTPlanet community so Un-Grateful?

I assume you know most of the site to make this statement? Or are you just referring to the GT5 section?

I've been here just a short time and I'm sure I don't know at least half the people on here.

I don't even know anyone who has moaned about getting 'more, more, more' as you so put it. Sure, people do, but not anyone I know.

I'm sure this thread started out with the proper intentions of pointing a finger at the not so grateful for their complaints but as with most topics involving PD and fans it descends into a Forza Vs GT battle with people nitpicking at each one. How long before Nazis are mentioned? Ooopppsssss......

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

I assume you know most of the site to make this statement? Or are you just referring to the GT5 section?

I've been here just a short time and I'm sure I don't know at least half the people on here.

I don't even know anyone who has moaned about getting 'more, more, more' as you so put it. Sure, people do, but not anyone I know.

I'm sure this thread started out with the proper intentions of pointing a finger at the not so grateful for their complaints but as with most topics involving PD and fans it descends into a Forza Vs GT battle with people nitpicking at each one. How long before Nazis are mentioned? Ooopppsssss......

Shem you know the best way for some to bait people into arguing is to say the most irrational things so, rational people like you can call them on it. at the last part.

 

[C_Raccoon23]

If Gran Turismo 5 was free, I would agree with you. But it wasn't, we all had to pay money for it. Polyphony Digital is a corporation, that provides a product, and is looking to make a profit. In the business world, you meet the wants and even the demands of your customer base or you go under. Polyphony Digital understands this and I guarantee you they are paying far more attention to the people who are giving them feedback, and ignoring the ones (such as yourself) who are just kissing their rear ends, because that doesn't tell them anything. They know their game needs a lot of work still, Kaz has admitted as much, multiple times now. Feedback has been what has driven GT5s updates for the last year.

You come off as very immature, getting this worked up and angry over other peoples opinions.

I don't know how I missed this post. I agree with it completely. 👍

 

[urunatural]

another +1 to the OP

 

[ccjcc81]

Happy, satisfied, and competent people are busy playing the game. Unhappy, bored, incompetent people go find a place to whine and complain. No mystery.

It would appear that happy, satisfied, and competent people are busy insulting other people online for having opinions that differ from their own.

I think GT5 receives a lot of flak because it genuinely let people down upon its release. I will not dispute the fact that it is better than any console racer out there, but when I see ads that say "1000 cars," it throws me off to buy the game and see that only 200 are GT5 cars, the rest are low quality carry-overs. When I see "Now with damage for added realism," I expect to see some. If PD hadn't promised all these great things, and then failed to implement them after 8 years and many delays, then perhaps we would see fewer people complaining about being disenfranchised in whatever way. I say, set someone's expectations and then exceed them. I only tell my boss I'll have it done in 30 minutes if I know I can do it in 25. That’s why I still have a job. I don't tell him I'll do it in 30 minutes if I know it will take me 60.

I can understand that some of you don’t like to see bickering and negativity on your favorite forum, but it amazes me to see people get so emotional and insulting when other people voice legitimate complaints.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

It would appear that happy, satisfied, and competent people are busy insulting other people online for having opinions that differ from their own.

I think GT5 receives a lot of flak because it genuinely let people down upon its release. I will not dispute the fact that it is better than any console racer out there, but when I see ads that say "1000 cars," it throws me off to buy the game and see that only 200 are GT5 cars, the rest are low quality carry-overs. When I see "Now with damage for added realism," I expect to see some. If PD hadn't promised all these great things, and then failed to implement them after 8 years and many delays, then perhaps we would see fewer people complaining about being disenfranchised in whatever way. I say, set someone's expectations and then exceed them. I only tell my boss I'll have it done in 30 minutes if I know I can do it in 25. That’s why I still have a job. I don't tell him I'll do it in 30 minutes if I know it will take me 60.

I can understand that some of you don’t like to see bickering and negativity on your favorite forum, but it amazes me to see people get so emotional and insulting when other people voice legitimate complaints.

Well the rules of debate or argument are suppose to have factual merit and not emotional draw. The side for GT5 seems to use alot of emotion and run with it as fact, sadly that is not how a debate is held. GT is one game of probably a long list of series that if you were to call out even one of the games from it you'd get an Orwellian type treatment from those in support of that series.

 

[matt-mtb]

People want other things. Like when the first DLC was released, people said they wanted more road cars. Also in the updates, many people are complaining about that.

IF YOU DON'T LIKE DON'T PLAY!​

 

[GT6mebe]

So no other game get support for a year or more after, huh? So WoW, Warhammer online, NFS World, Monster Hunter, etc. etc.... point is, you are wrong. Plenty of games are fixed/updated/patched well beyond a year.

Try to name a console game please. Your clearly naming MMO's which are expected to have regular updates to keep their fanbase from paying the subscription. So until you name a console game that has had over 14 patches in one year, or even better a racing game, it stands clear that GT5 has received support like no other game.

You seem to be missing the point. *IF* GT5 would have been released fixed, or fixed within a few months, they would not have to keep this continuous cycle of a years worth of "fixes".

KY said himself he would of liked 2 more years but that was unrealistic.Therefore you are missing the point. Lets not go into assumptions because they are never a means of evidence or argument.

And you are calling FM4 "rushed"? . At least it is solid and features are in the game that they said would be in it.

Yes I would also called it rushed. It just seems to me T10 just want to stick to the 2 year dev cycle for the sake of it, not release a game when it needs to be released. I mean 90 news cars and 5 new tracks.... 5 NEW TRACKS.....is just no enough content to be worthy of a purchase. Autovista mode was a waste of time period could of added more tracks. Rivals is a rip off from Autolog from NFS and is not hard to implement.

Together with the fact that over 30 dlc cars were released in two months and the probable release fo an ultimate collection just put me off the game.

I assume you are taking shots at FM4 because its the closest thing to GT5? I am curious if you own it, or are just going off things you have heard?

People take shots at GT5 by using FM4.
They think somehow if GT5 is worse even in one regard than FM4, it means there is ground to complain (x10) about GT5.
So they try to prove GT5 is worse then FM4. That's why we see FM4 get brought up constantly when we're talking about GT5.

Fixed.