Why is Sex so taboo?
- Thread starter Small_Fryz
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Danoff
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No, but basically everything about her physical appearance is child-like. I mean sure, if he's not attracted to her and they just have a great relationship anyway, then everything I wrote is hypothetical and not really about them. But I'm presuming he's attracted to her and she does look like a child, and that seems somewhat inescapably pedophilia.
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- rising_glass1
Well then it's best that I don't post in anymore topics like this and the America's topic cause it just starts a bunch of BS when all I did was make a post. It's like my family always criticizes me for something I did wrong. That's what's baffling sometimes. Yeah words are hard when they express the truth!
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- rising_glass1
Lol, ok I guess if I don't have anything good to say about the topic, or does not make sense then I don't need to say anything. Case closed. Let's forget about this and move on. I won't do this anymore, I know that. It's just hard, because I feel like most of my family is against complaining that I don't do enough around the house(daily chores). See I waste a lot of time on the ps4 and online. See I'm bored and hardly have any friends, that's why I came here in 2021. Wish I had known about it 15-20 years ago.
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- 2,156
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Should the term "minor attracted person (MAP)" be more widely used because it's potentially less stigmatising?
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- 28,818
- a baby, candy, it's like taking.
- TexRex72
Is it?
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I imagine he probably is attracted to her, and I'm sure they have or will at some point have a physical relationship, but if it's not the primary driver for his attraction to her - if it's something outside the physical and that's just something they deal with between them* to have a normal, adult relationship - I wouldn't say his philia was paedo, any more than I'd say someone who has a physical relationship with someone who has no legs is an acrotomophile if the fact of them not having legs wasn't the reason for the attraction. Of course being an acrotomophile isn't quite as negative/violence-inducing.
On a point of order, I also wonder how much of paedophilia is a literal physical attraction to the shape/s of a non-mature body and how much of it is other things - total control/domination over a partner, power dynamic (particularly of intelligence), loss of innocence or virginity/purity fetish, etc. etc. Because frankly children are gross. It's not something I've spent a lot of time cogitating - I mean, I get you can't necessarily help what floats your boat, but it's a mindset I just can't even imagine, never mind being able to empathise with - but as a parent who's always wiping up something... just eww.
Also, because I couldn't remember the term, I've now got "amputation fetish" in my Google Search history. Terrific.
*As a side-note, and without wishing to get too graphic, I imagine it is quite physically limiting unless he has a particularly small penis...
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I'd only come across the term when there was outrage against its use by people working to support people with this....preference, and stopping child sexual abuse.
I think it's a question of the history of the term "paedophile", and its association with sexual offending. Another point of note is that "paedophile" is technically for those attracted to pre-pubescent children; "hebephile" for pubescent children; MAP for anyone (who isn't a minor themselves) attracted to minors.
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- a baby, candy, it's like taking.
- TexRex72
I don't know the thought process behind the post but I get the sense that @Exorcet touched on this earlier.
Pedophilia in popular culture is frequently paired with a sort of infantilism on the part of the adult. If one hasn't reached a state of emotional development across the relevant spectrum, an actual child may seem like an appropriate individual with whom to have a relationship, while the part in which sexual attraction is rooted may be more likely to have developed.
I don't really understand it, and even as I recognize that there is no legitimate harm absent action on those thoughts, it's all incredibly skeevy.
It seems like a zero-sum game to me. On the one hand, it doesn't have the immediate negative connotation that "pedophilia" has, but I think people are still going to associate attraction with action. That some are going to go a step beyond and cast aspersions upon those seeking to address the issue rationally may even tip it into net negative territory.
Danoff
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I guess mentally I distinguish a lot between being mentally/emotionally connected with someone and being physically attracted. Being attracted to someone with no legs could be because you find some aspect of them other than the lack of legs attractive, or it could have a lot to do with them having no legs. I guess what attracts you determines whether you're a acrotomophile. In this particular case, her entire appearance is child-like.
Good question. It comes up in @TexRex's quote below.
I think often pedophilia occurs in people that have been sexually abused as children. That being said, I don't think you necessarily need to be stunted in some fashion to be attracted to children, but it may occur often linked with some kind of trauma or psychology that needs to be worked through. There was a detailed article posted on GTP a while back that made it seem that even overcoming the psychological ramifications of early abuse does not alter the physical attraction, which makes living with pedophilia very difficult.
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- 28,818
- a baby, candy, it's like taking.
- TexRex72
Michael Jackson springs to mind (AAAH!!!). Of course this isn't to say that these inclinations are a foregone conclusion in the absence of a normal childhood that stimulates emotional growth, but he certainly didn't have that. Even without physical or emotional abuse (which Jackson may have experienced--I'm not familiar enough with his story), the effects of such trauma may be felt.
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Keef
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From a normal (pretty sure) perspective, I feel like this "child-like" appearance could have extremes to it. First of all, what defines child-like? I'm sure y'all are aware of changing social dress codes for example and have been in situations where you've noticed a young woman dressed to catch attention, only to realize that it wasn't a young woman but a 14 year old girl. "I can't tell how old kids are but nobody dressed like that back in my day". While you might have been subconsciously attracted to that style, presuming that only a mentally and physically mature woman would wear that, the second you noticed the physical cues of an immature girl that section of your brain immediately turned off. Age-related physical cues abound down to the wrinkles on a person's face...especially the wrinlkes on a person's face.
But there are plenty of 25 year old women who might as well be 18 because they haven't developed those cues yet. Good for them, but they could literally be the same height and same build as a high school girl. Do we consider that child-like? I personally consider that very interesting but I suppose that presumes that that woman has a more mature demeanor about her.
Speaking of demeanor, that's usually the first thing we notice about a person as we view them from a distance, how they speak, how they carry themselves, etc. Typically you already have a baseline for about how old someone is before you can even see their face. We can tell a high school kid apart from a young adult who looks like a high school kid, despite high school kids trying their damndest to look 25 these days.
I think my point here is that it's kind of impossible for a non-pedophile to be "accidentally" attracted to a kid because they would've had to miss all the other cues we notice before we ever ask a person's age. But an actual pedophile would have to specifically seek out child-like cues, which this girl probably does not display because she's 23 year old college graduate. She's more like a midget or dwarf than a child.
If "tiny" is a good enough excuse to define pedophilia then a lot of us men are in deep trouble lol. But it isn't. Arguably it starts with a person's demeanor before age becomes a factor, unless pedophiles research their victims before they ever meet them.
Danoff
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I'll grant you that there is a little bit of that, but mostly she looks like a kid to me. Like an 8 year old in makeup for a beauty pageant or something. Sure she doesn't seem to act like a kid.
Depends on what you mean by kid - "jailbait" and all. I think if you looked at a statistical plot of what age the population is attracted to, it would fall off but remain significant as you went from 18 down to like 14 or 13 - and then it would fall even harder to near zero as you go below that. But never exactly zero, at almost any age.
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But...
It's easy to see that they could have hit it off outside of her physical appearance (and also he seems to be from Wales while she's from New York apparently, and the internet is a great place to not reveal your appearance!) and he just thought she was really cool, then just decided to deal with it - or, if they met on the internet, only later found out she looks about ten, and gone with "well, let's see how it goes because she's great" and not "nope, she's great but nu-uh, not dealing with that".
I mean, that's conjecture - no idea how they met, and he could well be a nonce, but it's not necessarily the case he is; he just likes this adult human woman and deals with the fact she's got no legs. I mean, looks ten.
I've read up on her and apparently her parents have been drilling "beware of who you date because they might well just be nonces" into her for years - and I think I read something about them vetting potential boyfriends (which is creepy, but I guess so is "a nonce wants to date my daughter who looks ten but is 23"). There's a good chance she's wise to it and very wary.
A fun one is the other way about. I know a woman who is physically (and chronologically) 23 but mentally eight. That's straight up "get in the ****ing sea" territory.
Edit: Apparently my wife is familiar with Shauna and says "she's canny", which is north-eastern for "great".
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Danoff
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Yea it's totally possible that he's not a pedophile. I just think the odds are he is - specifically I mean attracted to child-like appearance. Her parents have drilled into her that concern, but what exactly is the concern? I guess it's fair to say that statistically speaking the type of person who would be attracted to her may have had a higher likelihood of psychological trauma in their past. I guess what I'm trying to say is that if her parents want her to find someone who finds her attractive psychically, they should probably be glad that there are men out there who are into that sort of thing. The question is whether that necessarily comes with some other insurmountable baggage. But I'm not sure that it does.
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ROAD_DOGG33J
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I get the idea behind the parents' concern, but then that would make anybody she meets suspicious unless they were about 18 or under 18. It kind of makes it sound like the parents want her to be alone.
Danoff
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Not just them, all of the angry commenting people that the article is written about. And by extension, they want the guy to be alone as well. But who is being helped by that?
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Oof lots of reading the posts just then. Okay, maybe, maybe it’s part of white-knighting. Maybe a little bit of pity or feeling he had to be the one to save her. Maybe out of the kindness in his heart, he just wanted to show love by making good memories.
Some of us don’t truly know a person’s heart. Even by their actions. Some may see it and others may not. Example,
I had A co-worker that was a few years older than me. We shook hands, joked, he helped me out at work. He wasn’t physically dirty, didn’t tell dirty jokes. He wasn’t quiet. We didn’t hang out, but chatted during work. I shared I had a 10yo and newborn daughters.
Christmas party was coming up. He was to play Santa at a barbecue. The female workers were hush hush saying they’re not letting their childeren near him. I mean, they felt something was up, that didn’t sit right with them. They knew nothing of him, other than he had a female partner and daughter. My female team member joked with him as well, but didn’t feel uneasy about him. However, she felt something was not quite right.
I left that position and soon after, left that business.
A month later, I called my old manager for a reference. He passed me to my ex-coworkers who said they missed me. One of my ex-workmates tells me about the other team member. One morning, Police walked in, cuffed him and took him away. They found out he was grooming his 16yo step-daughter/his partner’s daughter. I totally didn’t see that from standing next to the guy for two years!
Anyway, maybe I just give many people the benefit of the doubt. Again, I can’t call it with this particular guy. If she was in a circus act, would it be different? Does she have to grow more wrinkles for it then to be okay to have a relationship with her or is she just off limits?
Is an 18yo okay to have a relationship with her or an 8-17yo okay to find her attractive and want to be her boyfriend? They can show tendencies or become pedophiles as well.
Some of us don’t truly know a person’s heart. Even by their actions. Some may see it and others may not. Example,
I had A co-worker that was a few years older than me. We shook hands, joked, he helped me out at work. He wasn’t physically dirty, didn’t tell dirty jokes. He wasn’t quiet. We didn’t hang out, but chatted during work. I shared I had a 10yo and newborn daughters.
Christmas party was coming up. He was to play Santa at a barbecue. The female workers were hush hush saying they’re not letting their childeren near him. I mean, they felt something was up, that didn’t sit right with them. They knew nothing of him, other than he had a female partner and daughter. My female team member joked with him as well, but didn’t feel uneasy about him. However, she felt something was not quite right.
I left that position and soon after, left that business.
A month later, I called my old manager for a reference. He passed me to my ex-coworkers who said they missed me. One of my ex-workmates tells me about the other team member. One morning, Police walked in, cuffed him and took him away. They found out he was grooming his 16yo step-daughter/his partner’s daughter. I totally didn’t see that from standing next to the guy for two years!
Anyway, maybe I just give many people the benefit of the doubt. Again, I can’t call it with this particular guy. If she was in a circus act, would it be different? Does she have to grow more wrinkles for it then to be okay to have a relationship with her or is she just off limits?
Is an 18yo okay to have a relationship with her or an 8-17yo okay to find her attractive and want to be her boyfriend? They can show tendencies or become pedophiles as well.
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- JDA1982
Physical attraction can most certainly occur after someone has become mentally/emotionally attracted to someone. That's certainly happened to me in the past where I've found someone to be more attractive after I've started getting to know them and we've clicked. The opposite is also true, there are people I've met and thought "stunning", but as we've interacted I've changed my opinion, not to the extreme but enough to make a notable difference.
Mental attraction tops physical attraction every time, sometimes you see a couple where one is clearly attractive and the other... less so. Although there can be ulterior motives for that, money for example, there doesn't have to be, there isn't automatically and the vast majority of couples aren't together because one is rich and the other a gold digger. If you are with your partner purely because they look attractive to you, but you lack a strong mental connection then that doesn't make for a great relatoinship in my opinion.
Of course, there are times to be cautious around people and not to automiatcally assume the best, but I don't see any major problems here involving two consenting adults. If the world revolved around physcial attration only, there'd be a hell of a lot of depressed, lonely adults. As it stands there are a hell of lot of depressed adults but a lot of them aren't lonely at least.
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Danoff
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I feel like this kinda tries to sidestep the point I'm making - which is that I think he's a pedophile, and I think it's great that he found someone that can consent. My whole point here is that this is what we should want pedophiles to do - find someone they can bond with who can consent.
From a purely pragmatic standpoint, this is (presumably) one less pedophile looking at kids. From a broader perspective, it should give hope to all pedophiles that there are people out there that can consent who they might find attractive.
Of course.
That could be this situation, I just don't think it is. Maybe those are just my limitations talking - I cannot imagine being in a romantic relationship with someone who looked like a child. Could you? I wouldn't even consider it. That's part of the reason why I assume the guy is a pedophile. But him being a pedophile is perfect in this situation.
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- 29,916
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- JDA1982
No, but I've not met anyone I've connected with that also looks child like so it's not something I would think about. However, I have met someone in the past whom I wasn't initially attracted to physically, but ended up feeling attracted to physically after getting to know them. So I don't see a huge difference here.
Let's look at this a different way, if you met someone who was perfect for you in every way except for their physical appearance, would them looking young (though being a consenting adult fully capable of deciding for themselves) categorically prevent you from entering into a relationship with that person? If so does that not imply a shallowness on your part to allow appearances to dictate if you will have a relationship with someone?
How does that make the other person feel? Should they be condemned to a lifetime of loneliness purely because no one can date them without it being considered questionable?
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I wrote What I experienced to say maybe some of you, with this particular scenario, are right. Maybe he is a pedophile. Other people have more intuitive gut feelings. Maybe people can read other People better than others.
As a side, maybe there are people who would find the world’s shortest woman(Jyoti Amge) attractive. She’s 29. She’s different from Shauna in this instance, as Jyoti is very articulate and playful. Still, she looks like a baby doll.
Danoff
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"A relationship"? Not a romantic one no. Is that shallow? I guess that depends on what you think is shallow. A relationship without a physical connection is a friendship. I could definitely be friends with someone who looked like a child. No question.
You're assuming that being a pedophile makes him questionable. This is my whole point with bringing this up. I think he's a pedophile, and I think that what he's doing dating this woman is great, and that it's good for each of them that the other exists. This is how a pedophile finds love without hurting anyone. Why is that "questionable"? Keep in mind that I do not assume that a pedophile is a rapist or aspiring rapist, though some people do use the term that way.
