Why no love for Diesels, PD?

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Liquid
Aesthetics might also come into play. Some (most?) diesel cars are also of a standard trim level and certainly don't look as appetising as the hotter models.
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True, but a fair number are (aside from a badge) identical in looks to the petrol version. The Golf GTi/GTD and V40 R-Design spring to mind.
 
GT_Alex74
True. In GT6 context is does not really matter.



Yay, top speed. Doesn't mean a lot. There are 130hp cars which can reach that. How fast do you get there compared to the ST ? Is your front axle as agile as a ST's ?

As for the BMW comparison, it's also true in GT6 (both tested in my Time Trial experiments) - although the difference isn't huge. But keep in mind both have similar displacement, but the diesel is turbocharged. FIA regulations usually give a displacement coefficient between x1.4 and x1.7 for turbocharged engines compared to petrol ones. Which would make the 120D an equivalent of something between 2.8l and 3.4l ... Same year model, same manufacturer, there's the M3 E46 which fits in, with a naturally aspirated petrol 3.2 delivering 340+ hp. Or I could point you towards the numerous turbocharged 2.0l petrol engines chilling around 300 hp figures. Heck, you can even find naturally aspirated 2.0 engines that are more powerful (SR20VE, K20A, F4R...)

That 120i is not built and sold as a sports car. But then, you have the 130i you could order with an M sports pack which came out one or two years later that will torch the top-tier diesel 1-series BMW. And even with a 3.0 inline-six, it is still lighter than the diesel one.

As for taxes, emissions laws are ******** in EU, clearly favoring the diesels for years to support local industries (while Japan banned them in cities for decades because it was health threatening, which might also be a reason as pointed out by @Huks ). Even with the VW scandal, they managed to actually say they'd raise the limits for diesels, because the poor chaps couldn't deal with them.
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As far as I'm aware my ST TDCI is the same as the ST regarding the overall package except I've only got 1 tail pipe not 2 & it's a 2.2 4c vs a 2.5 v6, yes regarding acceleration against the petrol I lose but the torque in the diesel makes great mid/high range acceleration which is where I win (sort of) :) from 40/50mph onwards my car pulls quickly & gets to 120/130mph quickly + the engine only gets broken in around 40 or 50000 miles, they last so much longer. Don't get me wrong I'll take a petrol anyday for fun (focus RS, M5, RS6) but my lifestyle regarding long journeys means a sports diesel is a better option.
 
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I wouldn't mind if they had a few of the BTRA or similar big racing trucks in the game. Watching those monsters go around Brands Hatch is a sight to behold lol.
 
StigBelcherStyl
Current Diesel Cars in GT6

The cars shown in the list below display the current diesel cars that are included it GT6. As most of them are Racecars will we be receiving any more diesel cars in the near future?

Audi R10 TDi, 2006
Audi R10 TDi Stealth Model, 2006
Audi R18 Prototype, 2011
Audi R18 TDi 15th Aniversary Edition, 2011
Audi R18 TDi (Audi Sports team Joest), 2011
BMW 120d, 2004
Jay Leno Tank Car, 2003 (?Diesel?)
Mazda KUSABI, 2003 (?Diesel?)
Peugeot HDi FAP Base Model, 2010
Peugeot HDi FAP - Team Oreca Matmut, 2010
Peugeot HDi FAP - Team Peugeot Total, 2010
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RE: Kusabi:
Tornado
The original version of the [Kusabi] concept was a 1.6 liter diesel. The version that appeared at the Tokyo Motor Show in 2003 had the supercharged Demio engine, and is the one represented in the game.
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;)
 
Diesels are great for a daily basis use, but not so great for the classic sports car feeling of gasoline, although they can perform well too. The fact that GT6 has got very few of them is because the performance spec cars are usually not diesel (usually)
I find stupid to hate diesels though. There are many Diesel haters out there and those kind of engines are great in their own way, and more effient than gasoline engines.
 
The BMW 120d is diesel. I believe it was the last street car in GT6 to have a diesel engine. It was not the first one though. I believe in GT2 there was a Mitsubishi Gallant diesel. And then there are the LP diesel cars, like the Audi R8 and Peugeot 908.
 
Mr Grumpy
Also in real life that BMW 120d is quicker than the 118i petrol variant.
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The 120d is faster than the 120i in GT6, too. Check the specs:

120d
160 hp / 4,000 rpm
251 ft-lb / 2,000 rpm
1,415 kg (3,120 lbs)
388 pp

120i
148 hp / 6,000 rpm
147 ft-lb / 3,500 rpm
1,335 kg (2,943 lbs)
368 pp

At Mid-Field on Comfort Softs:




I'm a big fan of diesels, specifically bio-diesel.
 
I don't see why we can't have more diesels in GT. You tend to have to drive them differently to use their torque but that can be fun. The noise isn't so nice but ... let's not open that can of worms :-)

I think someone said "Then, not being able to start under freezing cold temperatures does not go well with reliability. It was pretty funny around there to see the mess when temperatures went under 10° Celsius". I find that very strange as my old diesel ran fine when it was -23C. I didn't use anything except for the same standard diesel which is sold all over Europe.
 
The new Mazda CX-3 is sold in Japan as diesel only. I remember the Honda Accord Euro was sold as a 2.2 diesel in Europe but, the TSX(Accord Euro) was only sold with the petrol engine in the USA.
It does say something that GT6 and even GT5 had electric cars in it but, new diesel vehicles were excluded. It's not like Mercedes, Peugeot and VW are new-comers to diesel engined cars. Some which, give petrol cars a run for their money.
 
05XR8
It does say something that GT6 and even GT5 had electric cars in it but, new diesel vehicles were excluded. It's not like Mercedes, Peugeot and VW are new-comers to diesel engined cars. Some which, give petrol cars a run for their money.
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Almost all of the road cars - especially if you look at the premiums - in GT6 tick one or more of these boxes:

a. Historic / cultural importance; being an icon (VW Beetle, Fiat 500, etc.)
b. Representing innovation and future (Nissan Leaf, Toyota Prius, etc.)
c. Being the high performance / sports version of its model (BMW M5, Honda Fit RS, Ford Focus ST, etc.)

Very few diesel cars tick any of those boxes. There are sporty diesels, but there are almost always sportier petrol versions.
 
Yes but, timing for GT6. 2014 Mazda3/6/CX-5(mind you, the standard BK Mazda3 2.3L with no MazdaSpeed version & CX-7 concept are still in Gran Turismo) diesels even the little Mazda2 runs as a diesel race car in the China Touring Car Championship(and remember the two Mazda6 diesel at the Daytona 24H). Those are the top spec cars in their line ups.

Isn't the VW Touareg diesel the top spec model?

It just may be a case of the cars are either too new, PD were concentrating on cars for GT on PS4 or PD just don't care to model diesels for the game.
 
05XR8
It just may be a case of the cars are either too new, PD were concentrating on cars for GT on PS4 or PD just don't care to model diesels for the game.
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No -- the best explanation was given right above your reply:

eran0004
Almost all of the road cars - especially if you look at the premiums - in GT6 tick one or more of these boxes:

a. Historic / cultural importance; being an icon (VW Beetle, Fiat 500, etc.)
b. Representing innovation and future (Nissan Leaf, Toyota Prius, etc.)
c. Being the high performance / sports version of its model (BMW M5, Honda Fit RS, Ford Focus ST, etc.)

Very few diesel cars tick any of those boxes. There are sporty diesels, but there are almost always sportier petrol versions.
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05XR8
Yes but, timing for GT6. 2014 Mazda3/6/CX-5(mind you, the standard BK Mazda3 2.3L with no MazdaSpeed version & CX-7 concept are still in Gran Turismo) diesels even the little Mazda2 runs as a diesel race car in the China Touring Car Championship(and remember the two Mazda6 diesel at the Daytona 24H). Those are the top spec cars in their line ups.
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The 2.3 liter Axela is the sporty version:

"Until the turbocharged Mazdaspeed Axela made its appearance, this model was popular as the highest performance model of the Axela series."

The Mazda MX-Crossport, being a concept, ticks the box representing innovation and future.

As for Mazda6, the 2.0 liter petrol engine produces 15 more horsepowers than the 2.2 liter diesel. I think there is a 2.5 liter petrol engine as well. The diesel car is also 100 kg heavier than the petrol car. It's a better tractor though as it can tow 1600 kg, compared to 1500 kg for the 2.0 liter petrol version.

I believe there were three Mazda6 diesels in the Daytona 24H, and they all lost one cylinder each :P

Isn't the VW Touareg diesel the top spec model?
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I have no idea what the top spec model of the current generation is. Generally speaking though, the top spec model is a petrol car. I'm sure there are one or two exceptions.
 
eran0004
The 2.3 liter Axela is the sporty version:

"Until the turbocharged Mazdaspeed Axela made its appearance, this model was popular as the highest performance model of the Axela series."

The Mazda MX-Crossport, being a concept, ticks the box representing innovation and future.

As for Mazda6, the 2.0 liter petrol engine produces 15 more horsepowers than the 2.2 liter diesel. I think there is a 2.5 liter petrol engine as well. The diesel car is also 100 kg heavier than the petrol car. It's a better tractor though as it can tow 1600 kg, compared to 1500 kg for the 2.0 liter petrol version.

I believe there were three Mazda6 diesels in the Daytona 24H, and they all lost one cylinder each :P



I have no idea what the top spec model of the current generation is. Generally speaking though, the top spec model is a petrol car. I'm sure there are one or two exceptions.
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There are the 2.5L models in the 3/6/CX-5. IN each of those, the diesel costs the most and is fitted with everything(here in Australia anyway). Hence why I'm mentioning them as the top spec. The CX-3 costs the most as diesel and has every amenity as well. Hence why I mention top spec. Sky-Activ D ticks those boxes in your "few" column, which you agree.
We'll, sew what we're given in the next GTX as road car choices.
 
05XR8
There are the 2.5L models in the 3/6/CX-5. IN each of those, the diesel costs the most and is fitted with everything(here in Australia anyway). Hence why I'm mentioning them as the top spec. The CX-3 costs the most as diesel and has every amenity as well. Hence why I mention top spec. Sky-Activ D ticks those boxes in your "few" column, which you agree.
We'll, sew what we're given in the next GTX as road car choices.
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Okay, so by top spec you mean most expensive, or most luxurious? I'm talking about performance, and with the diesel being heavier and having less power it doesn't tick the box for being the sporty version.

Fun fact though: the Sky-Active D engine is mentioned in Beyond the Apex, as an example of a Diesel engine :)
 
I'm not sure I agree that GT cars were picked on the basis suggested by eran004. There seem to me to be many cars that are there just because someone found them interesting.... and that is one of the things which still attracts me to the GT series.

Personally I'm not exclusively interested in what one might call the exotics but I am interested in cars I've driven, owned, wanted to drive or cars which are interesting. Now a diesel powered car doesn't qualify as interesting just because it's a diesel but for many of us diesel engined cars have become part of our lives so I'd like to see some in the game. I've never driven the V10 TDI VW did for a while and the old Alfa JTDs were supposed to tune nicely in their day but I somehow missed out on driving them. The Alpina D3 is supposed to be quite good with some saying they prefer it to the M3..... I'd like to see for myself :-)

Oh well, what I'd like is unlikely to influence Polyphony Digital...... perhaps that's part of their charm......
 
Mad Matt
I'm not sure I agree that GT cars were picked on the basis suggested by eran004.
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They aren't. PD have never shown strict preference for including the sportiest version in a model range. They usually tend to, but they also usually just model every upper level version of every car in the game anyway.
 
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There could be more diesel cars included simply for variety. I quite like cars with torque and l tune cars with a preference for more torque over horsepower. If calculating pp was adjusted ever so slightly to favour torque a little more, diesel cars would have a chance to compete against other cars and might become more popular.
 
MrGrado
There could be more diesel cars included simply for variety. I quite like cars with torque and l tune cars with a preference for more torque over horsepower. If calculating pp was adjusted ever so slightly to favour torque a little more, diesel cars would have a chance to compete against other cars and might become more popular.
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I agree. Even though I don't usually drive diesels, they can be interesting to drive every now and again.

(11 millionth post on GTP?)
 
Are there diesel cars in other racing games?

The problem with diesel cars is that they are unresponsive, bad sounding and boring to drive compared to petrol cars (in my opinion).

And i am saying that by having my third diesel now. First was an MK3 Golf TDI with 90 hp, second an Audi A4 B4 TDI with 110 hp and now i drive a Volvo S60 I D5 with 163 hp.
While the car definitly isnt slow (for my standards) and way faster than the 1996 Nissan Primera (116 hp) i had as my first car, the Nissan was just way more fun to drive. The constant increasing tourge and hp curve up to 6500 rpm is so much more fun to drive than the diesel ones from low to midrange.

While i had my Golf even the Micra Mouse from my wife with its 55 petrol hp was more fun to drive than the faster Golf.
 
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