Why use tc? With a properly tuned lsd

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chattimus

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chattimusmaximus
Hello fellow GT enthusiasts,
The target audience of this thread is "hardcore sim guys" who still use TC on most if not all vehicles they drive. This does include the others to like active steering, and the stabability one which to be honest i dont understand what they do. Now for recreation and fun for all the older adults who have young families and childern and dont have the time to invest in the game but wanna have fun still i comppletely understand. But for instance when i raced super gt ive been in countless rooms where the name of the lobby was something ridiculous like best racing ever and the leader and half the other drivers were using aids and my question is whyyyy???? Ive been running alot of LMP (Le Mann Prototypes) rooms and i run into countless comaplining of why dont you turn on traction control? My answer is simple it slows you down. Now i do understand yes especially on the lmp's there is a steep learning curve to it but the satisfaction you recieve from running a hot lap with no aids makes it so worth it. Due to the fact that you are in complete control of the car. And with a lil time spent on tuning your LSD it does work almost like a TC system. Now yes if you dont have the throttle control required or braking you will spin unlike in a TC room but thats kinda the point i believe. The game is a sim its meant to be difficult not easy in no vehicle with 900 BHP can you slam it in the apex of a turn and expect to stay stable and pull through. I would like to hear about everyones opinion on this whether you agree or disagree. But before you post remember im only really asking the guys who say they are good and use it. Because in the end you are faster with practice and without TC.

Your gt pal
chatty

p.s. Also if anyone is interested I have a sick setup for the toyota gt one on de la sarthe with no aids and abs 1 just hit me up and i will share and maybe we can get together and have some good racing. Also for LMP enthusiasts I have a social club for us heres the website https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/group.php?groupid=312
I would love for more to join cause Iam already in the process of settting up a championship series thanks to world league racing https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/group.php?groupid=312 and my buddies speeddmon and teneightyone :dunce:
 
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Wow. Block text.

You are right, but sometimes I don't have time to tune the LSD before an online race and I have to stick traction control on 1 just to keep the rear of the car in check.
 
u guys up for a race?
 
Throttle control is difficult with a DS3. Personally I don't use any aids except ABS 1. Even if you reassign your buttons it's not so easy etc...But I think the same could be said for turning ABS off. If I could master the pressure sensitivity for my controller I would definitley drive with ABS off.
 
i agree with your point in priciple chattimus however i usually have TCS on 1 as i do not have a clutch peddle and find it very difficult to get a clean start with TCS off. apart from this i agree you are faster and it is more fun, however i think TCS should be allowed along with ABS as most cars have this anyway in real life.
All other aids are for people who cannot drive properly IMO and should not be used
 
900HP cars are meant to be difficult, but the game is also meant to be fun. I would love to be able to drive with the aids off on a excellent wheel and peddle setup, but I only have my DS3 controller so all the aids that help me to get a better time stay on. While I have tried to use the trigger button for acceleration it just ends up killing my hand after a short time so I have to use the X button, and the best you could do with that is continually tap the button to try for throttle control. So I live with SRT on and TCS on, and with TCS as high as 4 if I am trying to save tires. However, I have found I can painlessly use the trigger button for breaks so I have been experimenting with ABS off, and found when the break bias are set right I increase my time plus wear the front tires at the same speed as my back tires. With that more even wear on tires I can setup my suspension more aggressively, and pick up more time.
 
TeddyBear-420
really? most car come with Traction Control. try to drive most super cars with it off and you will wrap it around a tree.
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I don´t care since I mostly never had any issue with driving a supercar with a steering wheel. Since I switch TC off, I won´t be able to use it ingame on 1 ;) Sounds logical, right? Ok, there are a few which are undrivable in stock settings, but those wouldn´t go faster with TC set to 1, either.
 
I still turn off all aids with the DS3. It works, just blip the throttle on/off/on/off.

Not the most effective way, but it beats traction control.
 
ninjasansan
I still turn off all aids with the DS3. It works, just blip the throttle on/off/on/off.

Not the most effective way, but it beats traction control.
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I think there isn´t an (un)effective way to play GT. Only important thing is that you go fast :)
If this being done with activated TC, then why not? Or you, blipping the throttle. It´s working for you and that´s what counte 👍

Have fun!
 
To my experience a lot of folks claim that not using TCS is faster just to get beaten by folks who use it.

To quote Chris Harris "I use TCS (in a Porsche 911) because it's useful."
 
I never ever use tc or srf when I drive with my wheel, but if I don't feel like taking my wheel down I appreciate tcs amd srf because with a ds3 no aids I am like 2 seconds slower per lap than with my wheel and wih tcs1 and srf on I am only about .5xx seconds per lap from my wheel times..
 
Ok so I geuss i still wasnt specific enough cause when is ay hardcore sim guys i do mean the ones with wheels. Of course you need TC with a DS3 I completely understand that but not to offend anyone but this is GT5 and you still havent bought a wheel i dont believe you to be hardcore. I know moneys tight cause yeah i had to save up for a while and i have people to support but i still got my wheel. So for those with TC still on and using a wheel no excuse if you consider yourself hardcore. Just admit your casual and noone will call you out or make up posts like this. Cause to behonest iam sick of joining these lame rooms where it says clean best racers ever (lol) and its full of aids and noobs.
 
I've been a "hardcore" cp/console racer for 20 years. I've used wheels in previous versions of gt and nfs but I don't have and can't afford the money for a decent wheel. If I did have the money I would spend it on my kids or rl car.

I use a ds3 with only ABS1. No TCS or other stuff. If you listen to rl racers they talk about "input control", wheel or ds3 its all the same. It takes time to learn the discipline, be it wheel or ds3. But once you have it then its about vehicle control. And vehicle control is what we play the game for. At least that's why I play. The same skills I use in the game I use in real life irrespective of input control.

Its hard to learn vehicle control with the aids on. Start with aids on and as you get more comfortable turn them down. Once I decided to not use them in GT5 it only took me a few hours in one night to learn not to rely on them.

The ABS is another animal. I feel totally comfortable leaving it on till the physics improve. I might be able to learn how to not rely on it but it would probably take me a week of endurance racing to do it.

LSD will help you unlearn the aids but only if you already understand how to tune it. It would be quicker and surer to unlearn the aids and then learn to tune the LSD. And the tune would be more correct then also.
 
TeddyBear-420
really? most car come with Traction Control. try to drive most super cars with it off and you will wrap it around a tree.
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That's why it's the hardcore sim set, you kind of expect them to be decent drivers.

And yes, I'm one of those who doesn't use TC, it bothers me and I just love to lay rubber all over the road. :)

Plus even on the DS3 (which I use) you have pressure sensitive face buttons so it's not on/off like the older games (which coincidentally don't have TC either.)
 
Perhaps if it were possible to see the stock rl settings for each cars TCS and other aids...
 
I use srf and tc with abs at 1 just because it makes it easier to play and have fun. It is still a game at the end of the day. Dont get me wrong it can be fun going without any aids, And i am reasonably good. Not great. But it just requires so much morenthought power and i like to play gt5 to relax.
(ds3 user btw)
 
See just like yourself shoeface this thread is not aimed at you man, you guys are having fun and racing clean while not perpetrating. Like I said this thread is aimed at the guys with the big fancy rooms names intros so on and so on that claim this and that or that there setup is the best and tcs is turned on 6 yes 6 look up a few tunes on here for cars with higer and youll see alot of it.
 
Chattimus, you bring up a lot of good points. I agree with you completely, which is why I exclusivley drive in private rooms with people I know. There is absolutley no punishment that I can think of that is more horrible than racing in public lobbies.

So while I may have failed to answer your question, which went along the lines of "why do people who aren't good say they are good", and I also probably mentioned a solution you are familiar with, hopefully you at least realized how pointless this discussion is.
 
chattimus
Ok so I geuss i still wasnt specific enough cause when is ay hardcore sim guys i do mean the ones with wheels. Of course you need TC with a DS3 I completely understand that but not to offend anyone but this is GT5 and you still havent bought a wheel i dont believe you to be hardcore. I know moneys tight cause yeah i had to save up for a while and i have people to support but i still got my wheel. So for those with TC still on and using a wheel no excuse if you consider yourself hardcore. Just admit your casual and noone will call you out or make up posts like this. Cause to behonest iam sick of joining these lame rooms where it says clean best racers ever (lol) and its full of aids and noobs.
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Driving with a wheel or a DS3 has nothing to do with how "hardcore" the gamer is. You could make the argument that those who rely on driving aids aren't as "hardcore" as those who don't, especially if the driver is using these devices on weaker cars. But the actual method of driving in virtuality (wheel versus Sixaxis) has nothing to do with this issue.

I would agree that certain rooms are certainly "lamer" than others. I've been in some of those so-called best racing ever rooms, half the folks in there usually don't know how to drive. For me, I tend to look for rooms that do NOT feature SRF, Boost, Active Steering. I don't mind if TCS and ASM are used, because these devices usually make the driver slower.

TeddyBear-420
really? most car come with Traction Control. try to drive most super cars with it off and you will wrap it around a tree.
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Correction. Most modern cars come with traction control. Most vehicles 10-15 years old (fast or slow) did not have this feature yet, which means these cars depended on the driver to get it all correct.

I would also make the argument that a car with TCS installed (and working) could still get wrapped around a tree if the driver didn't know what the heck he/she was doing. Also, in some modern cars (performance or just for everyday driving) TCS and possibly other driving aids are defeatable, which means they are easily turned off with a push of a button or flick of a switch. Which means even if you've got a Ferrari or a Dodge, and it has TCS as one of its safety functions, it's possible to turn this off if the car allows you to do so. Some cars it's easy to turn off, some it isn't.
 
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You don't need TCS to play with a pad, the analog stick is more than sensitive enough for adequate throttle control. I did move the brake over to L2 though so I only have to press forward on the right stick for gas and can brake at the same time.

A lot the mistakes come from oversteer out of a corner and having the front wheels cut too much upon full throttle application. You need to bring the car around the turn in a smooth arc which is where fine camber tuning and LSD braking sensitivity tuning can produce a better exit angle. Then, when you jam on the acceleration the front wheels are already pointed in the direction of your intended driving line and less snap oversteer and wheelspin will occur. The rest comes down to getting dampers, anti-roll bars, and LSD initial torque and acceleration sensitivity adjusted accordingly.
 
chattimus
... The game is a sim its meant to be difficult not easy
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Well, that's the problem with your post, because for me this game is not a sim. A sim does not apply different physics in online and offline races which is what this game does. A sim also doesn't change the physics several times after its release. A sim would provide standard aids which would reflect reality + bonus aids for beginners or casual players, which this game doesn't. However this is just my criticism and I'm not sure if it belongs here.

I consider myself as a hardcore player, although I don't have a wheel. But I can manage to drive LMPs with TC0 and no changes to the LSD with only slight spinning of the tires and as long as TC0 makes me faster, I switch it off, if not it's on 1, and for cars where I know they don't have TC in reality it's not necessary to say that it stays on 0 even if I'm faster with TC on.

But thank you for the idea with the LSD to make it easier to drive with TC0, I'll try that on my yellowbird after my bob is done.

PS: no matter if a game is a sim or arcarde game, it should always be fun to play no matter if it's difficult or easy.
 
stadti
Well, that's the problem with your post, because for me this game is not a sim. A sim does not apply different physics in online and offline races which is what this game does. A sim also doesn't change the physics several times after its release. A sim would provide standard aids which would reflect reality + bonus aids for beginners or casual players, which this game doesn't. However this is just my criticism and I'm not sure if it belongs here.

I consider myself as a hardcore player, although I don't have a wheel. But I can manage to drive LMPs with TC0 and no changes to the LSD with only slight spinning of the tires and as long as TC0 makes me faster, I switch it off, if not it's on 1, and for cars where I know they don't have TC in reality it's not necessary to say that it stays on 0 even if I'm faster with TC on.

But thank you for the idea with the LSD to make it easier to drive with TC0, I'll try that on my yellowbird after my bob is done.

PS: no matter if a game is a sim or arcarde game, it should always be fun to play no matter if it's difficult or easy.
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Iam gonna have to say this is definitely one of the best arguments and i agreee with you actually with your first paragraph especially. And while we do have a few disagreements I have to respect this post.
 
Thanks for this idea with the LSD the yellowbird seems now easier to drive with TC set to 0. It still needs some finetuning but it is definitely an improvement :)
 
What I wonder about is why a car like the Mercedes 300SL from 1954 has medium TC as its default setting - since when did this car have TC - surely TC should not be an option for this car?!!
Ok, so look at it from another point of view, TC 5 on any car represents the 'real' feel of that car - because that is the default before we add any modifications or change any settings?
So .. thusfar and therefore, reducing TC to less (or more) than 5 means that you are no longer playing the 'Real Driving Simulator', as the true handling of the car is no longer being reflected.

What about the Formula GT and the F10? One can make them more easily drivable by simply upping the TC, or by manipulating other settings such as braking and suspension.
 
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All cars default to TC 5 until you turn it off for the first time. It's not to imply the car even has the function, just that PD expects the average first time driver in GT to need such a function. It is annoying that it is permanently defaulted to 5 though after every new purchase, I'd like to see a patch with an options menu override for global aids settings.
 
budious
All cars default to TC 5 until you turn it off for the first time. It's not to imply the car even has the function, just that PD expects the average first time driver in GT to need such a function. It is annoying that it is permanently defaulted to 5 though after every new purchase, I'd like to see a patch with an options menu override for global aids settings.
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But what you're saying implys that none of the cars handling's are realistic in their default setting?!
 
Jarnac
But what you're saying implys that none of the cars handling's are realistic in their default setting?!
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I'm implying that it is a game and PD sets it up easy for the Need for Speed kiddies who pluck it off the shelf and who would whine about the difficulty if all aids came turned off by default.
 
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