Will improved wheel/pedals improve my learning/confidence?

[ttcbj]

Several years ago I setup a sim rig and iracing with the intention of gaining confidence in order to drive real cars on the track. I had a very nice computer (Corsair Vengance with RTX 4090), but I did not spend a lot on the wheel pedals. I bought a logitech G920.

I had trouble learning to catch slides, and often ended up off the track, which did not improve my confidence. I also had a VR setup, which I found tedious to turn on and uncomfortable. After a time I gave up on the project.

Recently, I learned that catching a slide has a significant element of 'feeling' the wheel get light or kick. I have been thinking about returning to my project with significantly upgraded wheel/pedals and with triple monitors. Maybe something like a Fanantec Clubsport DD (https://www.fanatec.com/us/en/p/wheel-bases/cs_dd_us/clubsport-dd-us) plus wheel, and maybe also Fanatec ClubSport Pedals V3 for a load cell pedal.

My question is, do you think this upgrade would make car handling/catching a slide appreciably easier, since it would deliver more feedback and feel? Would it make it more likely that I could learn useful skills from iracing? Or, am I going to spend all the money and be right back where I started? I'd appreciate feedback from anyone who is either a good sim driver, or who has done a similar upgrade, or had similar goals for sim racing.

Thanks!

 

[Fossilized]

Any DD wheel will be a huge improvement over a belt drive wheel. But if you're still interested in using simming to up your real life skills, it's apples and oranges.

What you feel in the wheel is very different to how a wheel feels in real life. Most of what you feel in real life comes from your ass in the chair, the wheel transmits MUCH less info. You FEEL the car rotating, your eyes, ass and inner ear quickly recognize when the car isn't pointing in the direction it's actually GOING!

None of that happens in a sim rig. So a lot of 'fake' sensation is sent to the wheel to act as an analog for what you'd feel in a totally different way in life. But that 'analog' is a lot more detailed with a DD, even low power ones (still way more power than a G920!).

Probably the one thing that you're thinking of doing that will translate to better real driving is better load cell brakes.

 

[Nexus]

Belt-driven and DD wheels will help you catch slides better, yes. When I went from a Driving Force GT to a T300, drifting became much easier in Assetto Corsa. Going to DD wasn't as big as a difference, though still noticeable - though that's probably down to me getting a less powerful wheelbase (Moza R5).

Load-cell brakes will help your consistency when braking (and therefore improve your laptimes), but a better wheelbase will just make the driving feel better in sims (which is still important, but irrelevant if you're only focusing on speed).

 

[eran0004]

If the goal is to gain confidence for driving real cars on track, perhaps it would be better to buy a cheap old car and go to a track somewhere nearby?

A flaw with simulators is that the force feedback you get from the wheel is not the same forces you will feel through the wheel of a real car, so if you spend a lot of time learning on the simulator you might not be able to translate that into the real world.

You can probably find a cheap car for about the same price as an expensive sim rig.

 

[i386]

My question is, do you think this upgrade would make car handling/catching a slide appreciably easier, since it would deliver more feedback and feel?

If you enjoy/love the new setup and drive a lot more then yes
I think only by driving/racing more you will improve your skills to catch the car (even with the logitech you already have)

 

[ttcbj]

Thanks for the feedback.

Regarding the real car, I am looking for a lower-consequence way to gain skill/confidence. I have seen a bunch of youtube videos were people appear to be driving well on the track until suddenly they aren't. I'm especially aware of cases where people overcorrect and then spin the other way (tank slapper). My previous track driving has all been perhaps 7/8 tenths, well within the limits of the car, but a loss of focus or misjudgment might put me over the line. I wish I had some confidence that if I ever accidentally go beyond those limits, my instincts will be solid.

Regarding returning to iRacing, this thread has been helpful but inconclusive. It seems like people feel iracing is good in general for learning skills (Verstappen and other pro drivers use it, after all), but perhaps not the specific skill I am trying to learn (catching slides), since even with a better wheel the real-world sensations are still different than the sim sensations.

Thanks for the feedback!

 

[Nexus]

Regarding returning to iRacing, this thread has been helpful but inconclusive. It seems like people feel iracing is good in general for learning skills (Verstappen and other pro drivers use it, after all), but perhaps not the specific skill I am trying to learn (catching slides), since even with a better wheel the real-world sensations are still different than the sim sensations.

Drifting in Assetto Corsa seems to translate well to drifting IRL, and I'm sure regular counter-steering/catching slides would be similar:

 

[Fossilized]

I think the reason IRacing is used by a lot of pro drivers is simply the NUMBERS playing it. More drivers mean more splits. More splits mean fewer griefers at the highest levels. And iRacing has a ban/kick pathway for egregious drivers that is human reviewed.

I don't think it is because of any particular superiority in physics, FFB etc.. In fact, iRacing's tire model is widely criticized for its on/off behavior. But, n the end, NONE of the sims are perfect, so it's down to numbers...

 

[Greycap]

Over the last 20 years I've had a Driving Force Pro, a G25, a T-GT II and a T598, played games from GT4-GT7 to LFS and even Grand Prix Legends, and at the end of the day pretty much the only thing any sim can teach is the general direction and timing of the first move when things go wrong. The clunky plastic DFP and GT4 did it just as well as the direct drive T598 and GT7 but nothing can prepare you for the feeling of the entire car moving around, every car has a massively different steering feel, and the entire experience is just incomparable to anything on a screen. But any half decent sim teaches the basics and eventually they'll become second nature to the point in which you don't have to think when something happens, you just act.

And, having said that, that first move can be a huge thing. When the tail steps out, even if you don't get the first correction exactly right, knowing even approximately how much to turn and at which moment buys you enough time to save it and then do the correct move later as you're still on the track - although slowed down and fishtailing a bit - instead of backwards in the sand trap or the wall.

 

[i386]

I think the reason IRacing is used by a lot of pro drivers is simply the NUMBERS playing it.

I think the numbers are driven by the selection of cars and tracks that are available on the service, the accuracy of the tracks (especially the tracks that are used by IMSA) and that you can meet some of the iracing folks at different events/conventions (I saw/met some of them 2009 or 2010 at the cebit, they had simulators in formula/indycar style there)

 

[Fossilized]

I think the numbers are driven by the selection of cars and tracks that are available on the service, the accuracy of the tracks (especially the tracks that are used by IMSA) and that you can meet some of the iracing folks at different events/conventions (I saw/met some of them 2009 or 2010 at the cebit, they had simulators in formula/indycar style there)

AC has a greater selection, and probably the highest regarded wheel feel and FFB (after modding on PC), but it doesn't have the sheer numbers of racers that frequent iRacing. The two leaders in online racing are GT7 and iRacing, so there goes track selection or accuracy as the driving force.

It's about the numbers...