Will we ever see a classic Gran Turismo mode ever again?

  • Thread starter vasio
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Will we ever see a classic Gran Turismo mode ever again?

  • Yes

    Votes: 22 28.6%
  • No

    Votes: 55 71.4%

  • Total voters
    77
46
United Kingdom
London
vasio
breddas
Will we ever see a classic Gran Turismo mode ever again? You know, the one that the fans were clamouring for in GT7, only to be served that weird, boring Menu Book campaign instead. I still stand by my theory of it being cut from GT7, as we saw glimpses of it in early marketing materials (what happened to the Championships icon on the world map?) also Kaz teasing they were going back to the original formula and we’ll be getting everything that was in the previous games etc.

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Surely Kaz/Polyphony/Sony saw the fan backlash to GT7 and will go back to the tried and tested formula, right? Or will they stick to their guns and do another menu book campaign or a new thing?

Leading up to GT7, most people were begging for a GT4 reincarnated, myself included. I understand that the amount of content being produced in a AAA game today is almost unfeasible but they have the base of GT7 now, cars, tracks, GT Auto etc, so there’s really no reason not to do it. Creating a proper GT campaign really shouldn’t take too long so could we see it in GT8 or whatever comes next? With the fan reaction to GT7, which if I remember correctly was meant to last the whole generation with continuous updates, could they decide to do a GT8 sooner to satisfy the fans of the series?

P.S. Sorry if this has been asked before, it’s been a while since I’ve posted - GT7 almost killed my love for the franchise.
 

Dave A

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JDA1982
Given how many remakes there are now I wouldn't doubt if a classic GT with the classic mode gets a remaster, but I sadly doubt that a new game would go with the classic mode because it doesn't optimize the m iacrotransaction sales.
We won't ever get a remake of a previous Gran Turismo beyond fan made projects/mods.
 
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46
United Kingdom
London
vasio
breddas
I can’t see there ever being a remake but I also don’t think you need a remake when it comes to GT games. Some tweaks to the physics and FFB of GT7, a proper classic GT mode, decent AI and the roulette and prize money sorted and you have brilliant title. Sounds simple but it kinda is.
 

Dave A

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I can’t see there ever being a remake but I also don’t think you need a remake when it comes to GT games. Some tweaks to the physics and FFB of GT7, a proper classic GT mode, decent AI and the roulette and prize money sorted and you have brilliant title. Sounds simple but it kinda is.
All they really need to do is expand the Custom Race mode.

Make it so that we can share custom races and the game will set whatever AI cars were chosen on creation as the opponents so you don't have to own them yourself/continue to own them.

Also increase the payouts to somewhat reflect what you earn in the GT World races and then finally give us control to select 4 and 5 chilli difficulty.

If they did that, boy would it add legs to the game. But they won't.
 
1,103
United Kingdom
London
DEAD_DULLAH123
hyperspeed980
Unpopular opinion - I prefer the Cafe approach rather than a GT League.

Just needs a load more menu books (and for them to have more than 3 events in each one).
The way I see it is - the Cafe and Menu Books work perfectly as a side mode that complements the main GT League. But the way GT7 has done it, where the Cafe makes up the main career mode that awkwardly throws events at you in an overly linear fashion, leaves a lot to be desired.

Let's hope GT8, or even a massive overhaul to GT7, can sort out the career mode's issues.
 
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7,332
Exorcet
OE Exorcet
All they really need to do is expand the Custom Race mode.

Make it so that we can share custom races and the game will set whatever AI cars were chosen on creation as the opponents so you don't have to own them yourself/continue to own them.

Also increase the payouts to somewhat reflect what you earn in the GT World races and then finally give us control to select 4 and 5 chilli difficulty.

If they did that, boy would it add legs to the game. But they won't.
Sometimes, the answer is surprisingly simple. A custom race mode should be standard for any serious racing game made today, end of. It allows the game to provide the widest possible breadth of content to satisfy the maximum amount of players. Yet features like this are so rare in games. It makes no sense.

Forza 4's custom online lobbies to this day have been the best single player racing experience I've seen. How those same options were not included in the offline portion of the game is something I can't understand.
 
427
Uruguay
Uruguay
All they really need to do is expand the Custom Race mode.

Make it so that we can share custom races and the game will set whatever AI cars were chosen on creation as the opponents so you don't have to own them yourself/continue to own them.

Also increase the payouts to somewhat reflect what you earn in the GT World races and then finally give us control to select 4 and 5 chilli difficulty.

If they did that, boy would it add legs to the game. But they won't.
I'd love if we could save specific Custom Races so that they're saved and accessible from the same list as the regular events, or maybe more like you press triangle or something to toggle between both lists (basically the custom events from FH). The current way of saving custom races is ok but having all races in the same list with weather options not even carrying over makes it very unpractical.
 
1,311
United Kingdom
United Kingdom
I get the sentiment here but there's nothing to say that the "Championships" section in that screenshot just housed the championships we see in the World Circuits screen we have now.

I'd wager that entire announcement trailer is composed of placeholder buttons and assets to be honest, when you delve into things it doesn't make too much sense - for example you also have Championships listed under each individual circuit and then when they open the screen the championship event isn't in there and the GT Cup has a 300pp limit (whilst the GT3 car the player is in has near 600).

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I truthfully don't think they ever intended for GT7 to have any form of progression that's much different than what we have now; outside of the events we know were cut (the Super GT events, RBX2019 events, etc.).

Much as I wish things were different, I don't think a different UI design suggests we were due anything other than what we have. The removal of the Championships button is pretty much undoubtedly just to improve UX.
 
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112
United States
United States
What exactly are you looking for out of the game? There are 36 tracks with 104 different variations to play on. You have 454 cars you can buy and race with. 45 different circuit experiences to achieve, 5 different licenses to obtain, 7 separate missions to complete, the cafe menu events, the various extra events at each track, 3 online races that change weekly, a 1 lap time attack event where you compete against players from around the world that changes weekly, the occasional manufacturers cup events that pop up, The world series events that popped up, the ability to create your own customized races, the ability to create your own rooms to race online against your friends, soon it will be implementing VR headset compatibility... I mean, what else do you want??? What is this game lacking that is keeping you from being satisfied???

There are hundreds of hours worth of play time in this one game alone and you don't have to spend any additional money other than your initial purchase of the game to play it all. Okay, you need a PS+ account to play any of the Sport mode events, but that PS+ account expands well beyond just GT7. There are several AAA titles that cost just as much as GT7 and only give you 6-10 hours of play time and you have completed the game. Thats it. Game over. GT7 is hundreds of hours in its base game play with online play that is constantly changing. The latest updates have added more tracks, more cars, more missions, extra cafe menus, blah, blah, blah. Seriously, how are people still complaining about this game?

EDIT: Not to mention, custom car liveries to design, custom helmet and outfit liveries to design, custom tuning of all the car's power, aerodynamics, suspension, tires... basically all their performance attributes. Its pretty much limitless in the amount of customization you can do.
 
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14
United States
United States
What exactly are you looking for out of the game? There are 36 tracks with 104 different variations to play on. You have 454 cars you can buy and race with. 45 different circuit experiences to achieve, 5 different licenses to obtain, 7 separate missions to complete, the cafe menu events, the various extra events at each track, 3 online races that change weekly, a 1 lap time attack event where you compete against players from around the world that changes weekly, the occasional manufacturers cup events that pop up, The world series events that popped up, the ability to create your own customized races, the ability to create your own rooms to race online against your friends, soon it will be implementing VR headset compatibility... I mean, what else do you want??? What is this game lacking that is keeping you from being satisfied???

There are hundreds of hours worth of play time in this one game alone and you don't have to spend any additional money other than your initial purchase of the game to play it all. Okay, you need a PS+ account to play any of the Sport mode events, but that PS+ account expands well beyond just GT7. There are several AAA titles that cost just as much as GT7 and only give you 6-10 hours of play time and you have completed the game. Thats it. Game over. GT7 is hundreds of hours in its base game play with online play that is constantly changing. The latest updates have added more tracks, more cars, more missions, extra cafe menus, blah, blah, blah. Seriously, how are people still complaining about this game?

EDIT: Not to mention, custom car liveries to design, custom helmet and outfit liveries to design, custom tuning of all the car's power, aerodynamics, suspension, tires... basically all their performance attributes. It’s pretty much limitless in the amount of customization you can do.
I know right!? Guys just love to complain. The game can be frustrating but it’s the best damn game out there. Geesh
 

Dave A

TreVoR fan for life
Premium
29,331
United Kingdom
Cuddington, Cheshire
JDA1982
What exactly are you looking for out of the game? There are 36 tracks with 104 different variations to play on. You have 454 cars you can buy and race with. 45 different circuit experiences to achieve, 5 different licenses to obtain, 7 separate missions to complete, the cafe menu events, the various extra events at each track, 3 online races that change weekly, a 1 lap time attack event where you compete against players from around the world that changes weekly, the occasional manufacturers cup events that pop up, The world series events that popped up, the ability to create your own customized races, the ability to create your own rooms to race online against your friends, soon it will be implementing VR headset compatibility... I mean, what else do you want??? What is this game lacking that is keeping you from being satisfied???

There are hundreds of hours worth of play time in this one game alone and you don't have to spend any additional money other than your initial purchase of the game to play it all. Okay, you need a PS+ account to play any of the Sport mode events, but that PS+ account expands well beyond just GT7. There are several AAA titles that cost just as much as GT7 and only give you 6-10 hours of play time and you have completed the game. Thats it. Game over. GT7 is hundreds of hours in its base game play with online play that is constantly changing. The latest updates have added more tracks, more cars, more missions, extra cafe menus, blah, blah, blah. Seriously, how are people still complaining about this game?

EDIT: Not to mention, custom car liveries to design, custom helmet and outfit liveries to design, custom tuning of all the car's power, aerodynamics, suspension, tires... basically all their performance attributes. Its pretty much limitless in the amount of customization you can do.
An engaging single player career experience.

There is nothing wrong with the volume of track and car content in GT7, but a good single player experience it is not.

If all I want to do it pick a car and track and drive there are better games for that, if I want the classic GT experience of buying and tuning cars for different events and championships, GT7 is a very shallow implentation of that model.

It does have a lot going for it, but it's not cohesively brought together. It's sadly a case of the game not matching the sum of it's parts IMO.

I don't value how good a game is by the number of hours put in, that's a very poor barometer. People spend hundred of hours opening crates and loot boxes in mobile games, it doesn't make them better games than FF7 or MGS which are fantastic experiences but are completed far quicker than any F2P mobile game is.

Apply that same logic to movies, is a 3hr movie better than a 2hr movie because for the same price you get to watch for 3hrs not 2hrs?
 
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Dave A

TreVoR fan for life
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Please, expand on what you believe an engaging single player experience would look like to you.
An engaging single player experience is one that well, engages you, it hooks you in and you don't want to put it down. I put GT7 down after trying out the new content the day the last update hit after about 35 minutes and I haven't picked it up again since.

Just as a few examples of what I feel about GT7 as a single player experience, in my opinion Gran Turismos 3 and 4 are hands down the best two Gran Turismo games to show this.

With GT7 you motor through the Menu books pretty quickly, it chucks cars at you during that brief period, including what you need for the next menu most of the time and it chucks away the open career sandbox of previous titles. It makes little use of many of the cars in the game and no use of other cars outside of creating custom events.

In GT3 and 4 you had a lot of choice over what order to buy cars and complete events, it wasn't linear beyond the licenses and one event (IIRC) in GT4, and there was a lot of choice. Even after all of these updates there are far fewer races in GT7 than there were in GT3, let alone GT4.

The races themselves are poorly thought out, feature chase the rabbit style processions rather than the normal grid style setups so you start 30-40 seconds behid a lead car and rather than battle with the pack you end up in a race to the front before you run out of race. It's not an engaging format at all.

In GT3 and 4 the grids weren't as big but the races felt more like actual races and the variety of races was much more engaging. GT3 is a particular delight for me with it's structure.

The custom races for some reason limit you in odd ways, the payouts are really poor making not a good way to grind for credits and you have to handicap your own car to make the AI competetive because they've declined to let you choose 4 or 5 chilli difficulties. It's a great idea and it's executed ok, but it takes a long time blancing a race and your own car setup to get a competetive race constructed and when you finally do manage it, that's due to you.

The games economy itself is heavily geared towards grinding and nudging those inclined into buying Cr via microtransactions and the grind itself is uninspiring yet even those 3 races result ina long trudge towards obtaining the LCD cars.

Which brings me to another problem, the LCD and UCD being based on real days rather than in game days, some cars have been missing from the LCD for over 3 months. If you really wanted one of those there is nothing fun or engaging with waiting days/weeks/months for an ingame item to appear. It tkaes considerably longer to purchase the most expensive car in GT7 compared to previous titles. And the less said about the invitation cars the better.

GT7 isn't a terrible game, but it's a dissapointing Gran Turismo as far as the single player experience is concerned. It's structure feels more like that of a mobile game than a AAA full priced title. To be clear, it isn't that of a mobile game, and I'm not saying it is the same, but it makes use of a number of the same mechanisms a F2P mobile game does to try to force engagement, longevity and MTX transactions.

For the record I have created and released a moble game in the past and am fully aware of the way F2P games are structured and how to use FOMO in game design as well as how to utilise and push MTX's and no amount of debate around GT7's game mechnisms and nudge towards MTX's will change that GT7 makes use of FOMO to drive engagement and pushes towards MTX's.

That's my personal opiion on it, and of course others are free to agree/disagree with all or part of this as per their own opinion. But
 
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11,480
United Kingdom
West Yorkshire
Tired_Tyres
Not a chance. Kaz saw that players liked GT2/3/4 due to players in competitions would take their old consoles with them. He saw that and still came up with something completely different with the menu system, which is nothing like the classic modes, with stupid chase the rabbit dodge the mobile chicanes non racing. In a race game. There has been no attempt at a proper GT-mode since online became a thing.
 
44,166
Australia
Australia
All they really need to do is expand the Custom Race mode.

Make it so that we can share custom races and the game will set whatever AI cars were chosen on creation as the opponents so you don't have to own them yourself/continue to own them.

Also increase the payouts to somewhat reflect what you earn in the GT World races and then finally give us control to select 4 and 5 chilli difficulty.

If they did that, boy would it add legs to the game. But they won't.
Plus, it saves them from making new races. We can see how livery editor+parts releases them from adding certain real life race cars and making racing modified models.
 
112
United States
United States
An engaging single player experience is one that well, engages you, it hooks you in and you don't want to put it down. I put GT7 down after trying out the new content the day the last update hit after about 35 minutes and I haven't picked it up again since.

Just as a few examples of what I feel about GT7 as a single player experience, in my opinion Gran Turismos 3 and 4 are hands down the best two Gran Turismo games to show this.

With GT7 you motor through the Menu books pretty quickly, it chucks cars at you during that brief period, including what you need for the next menu most of the time and it chucks away the open career sandbox of previous titles. It makes little use of many of the cars in the game and no use of other cars outside of creating custom events.

In GT3 and 4 you had a lot of choice over what order to buy cars and complete events, it wasn't linear beyond the licenses and one event (IIRC) in GT4, and there was a lot of choice. Even after all of these updates there are far fewer races in GT7 than there were in GT3, let alone GT4.

The races themselves are poorly thought out, feature chase the rabbit style processions rather than the normal grid style setups so you start 30-40 seconds behid a lead car and rather than battle with the pack you end up in a race to the front before you run out of race. It's not an engaging format at all.

In GT3 and 4 the grids weren't as big but the races felt more like actual races and the variety of races was much more engaging. GT3 is a particular delight for me with it's structure.

The custom races for some reason limit you in odd ways, the payouts are really poor making not a good way to grind for credits and you have to handicap your own car to make the AI competetive because they've declined to let you choose 4 or 5 chilli difficulties. It's a great idea and it's executed ok, but it takes a long time blancing a race and your own car setup to get a competetive race constructed and when you finally do manage it, that's due to you.

The games economy itself is heavily geared towards grinding and nudging those inclined into buying Cr via microtransactions and the grind itself is uninspiring yet even those 3 races result ina long trudge towards obtaining the LCD cars.

Which brings me to another problem, the LCD and UCD being based on real days rather than in game days, some cars have been missing from the LCD for over 3 months. If you really wanted one of those there is nothing fun or engaging with waiting days/weeks/months for an ingame item to appear. It tkaes considerably longer to purchase the most expensive car in GT7 compared to previous titles. And the less said about the invitation cars the better.

GT7 isn't a terrible game, but it's a dissapointing Gran Turismo as far as the single player experience is concerned. It's structure feels more like that of a mobile game than a AAA full priced title. To be clear, it isn't that of a mobile game, and I'm not saying it is the same, but it makes use of a number of the same mechanisms a F2P mobile game does to try to force engagement, longevity and MTX transactions.

For the record I have created and released a moble game in the past and am fully aware of the way F2P games are structured and how to use FOMO in game design as well as how to utilise and push MTX's and no amount of debate around GT7's game mechnisms and nudge towards MTX's will change that GT7 makes use of FOMO to drive engagement and pushes towards MTX's.

That's my personal opiion on it, and of course others are free to agree/disagree with all or part of this as per their own opinion. But
I never played GT3 - GT6/Sport. I did GT1, GT2 and now GT7. To me, GT7 is much more engaging than either GT1 or 2. It's similar to them, but the number of tracks, the number of cars, the number of races, the amount of customization to your cars, attire, types of races and the addition of all the online racing completely opens the game up to nearly endless possibilities. So I'm very happy with how GT7 operates and I love the fact that PD are giving monthly updates that bring more cars, tracks and challenges to the game. For a game that only costs ~$60 (even cheaper during the holidays) I have found months worth of enjoyment out of it and it keeps being expanded on.

I keep reading how people are being pushed towards micro-transactions in GT7. You arent the first to mention this, but since you brought it up, I thought I would respond. Not once have I ever been prompted to make a micro-transaction in this game. No ads ever pop up pushing micro-transactions, Sara never tells me that I can purchase credits for actual money, no cars are locked out from buying unless I purchase credits. There has been no push what-so-ever. So your claim about being pushed into making micro-transactions is completely baseless. The push you feel is your own impatience nudging you towards purchasing credits, not the game.

Are some cars from the LCD expensive? Sure. I saw the McLaren F1 come by the last couple weeks and thought it would be a cool car to own, but am I going to spend 20M credits for it? Nope. There are so many better cars in the game that are much cheaper to buy that I have no desire to waste my credits on it. So it came and went. I may not see it come back up for another 6 months, but that's okay because I don't need that car in order to enjoy the game. There are many ways to play this game, many choices you can make to either make races a challenge or a cake walk. There are currently 4 big credit making races that you can run endlessly if you want. You can earn millions of credits a day if you so desire. Or you can try to be in the top 3% of all the people in the weekly one lap time attack. That will net you 2M credits and its quite challenging if things have become too easy for you. So there is no reason to purchase credits for actual money.

I mean, when I look at everything this game offers for price vs the amount of hours of enjoyment I get out of it there is no other game that is currently beating it. I haven't tried the other racing games out there, I'm sure they are all good too.

Have you considered playing some of the other racing games out there, or even the non-simulator driving games like GTA. Those could have a more engaging single player mode that could suit your needs more so than GT7.
 
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Dave A

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I never played GT3 - GT6/Sport. I did GT1, GT2 and now GT7. To me, GT7 is much more engaging than either GT1 or 2. It's similar to them, but the number of tracks, the number of cars, the number of races, the amount of customization to your cars, attire, types of races and the addition of all the online racing completely opens the game up to nearly endless possibilities. So I'm very happy with how GT7 operates and I love the fact that PD are giving monthly updates that bring more cars, tracks and challenges to the game. For a game that only costs ~$60 (even cheaper during the holidays) I have found months worth of enjoyment out of it and it keeps being expanded on.
Sure it's got more variety than GT1 but it doesn't have more than GT2. GT2 has more races, takes longer to complete and is far more open. But sure, GT7 is a far better game overall but it should be, GT2 came out 24 years ago. I was a bit critical of GT2 being so single race heavy over championships back in the day but GT3 and 4 nailed it IMO. You should try them if you ever get the chance. They lack the graphical polish of games today, but they're still pretty good otherwise.
I keep reading how people are being pushed towards micro-transactions in GT7. You arent the first to mention this, but since you brought it up, I thought I would respond. Not once have I ever been prompted to make a micro-transaction in this game. No ads ever pop up pushing micro-transactions, Sara never tells me that I can purchase credits for actual money, no cars are locked out from buying unless I purchase credits. There has been no push what-so-ever. So your claim about being pushed into making micro-transactions is completely baseless. The push you feel is your own impatience nudging you towards purchasing credits, not the game.
That you personally have never felt compelled to buy MTX's doesn't negate that the push is there. Designers know all too well what percentage of players will ignore them and what percentage will buy them in low numbers and their real target are the whales. Those are the guys who will spend far in excess of the majority but will make up over 90% of the total revenue taken from MTX purchases.

GT7 uses FOMO and a heavy grind to do much of the nudging and reinforces that with the notification to top up your Cr. You earn Cr relatively slowly and the pricing of the cars is very wide with a decent portion of the car list being very expensive in game, therefore taking a long time to grind for.

Then there's the notification, every time you click on a car you are given the option to top up your Cr, which you can see even if you cannot afford the car. The more desirable cars are time limited and only appear every few weeks/months or locked behind an invitation that if you are fortunate enough to win are also time limited. So if you can't afford those and/or don't have the time or inclination to grind for them, MTX's is your route if you are so inclined and that's by design. MTX's are also linked to addiction and mental health, they obviousely don't impact everyone, but impact some people in a very big way.

They influence the design of a games economy, slowing down the grind and effecting the high costs of items. So while you personally may not feel inclined to purchase, the game is most certainly designed around them. That's not to say the game has to automatically be bad because of that, I don't like it, but if you do that's your prerogative, and you are not wrong for enjoying the game any more than I am for not, it's all personal perferences and tastes.

But the idea that a game designed like GT7 doesn't push MTX's is a fallacy and absolutely wrong. Yes it's always an individuals decision to purchase MTX's, but arguing the game is doing nothing is like arguing that advertising is pointless as people will decide to buy the product if they want to anyway. Some will, a lot won't. We all know advertising is very, very effective and that's why companies chuck so much money at it, the nudges towards MTX's are no different in design. Some people will never buy them, a lot of people in fact, but they are still impacted by them through game design and it still is hooking the whales and pushing that "hey you can sppeed up the grind here for £xx.xx" to those more on the fence.

Look at mobile phones, how many poeple get a new phone every 2 years? A lot. Why? Beucase this new one is newer and fancier. They don't need a new phone. Most of the time there's nothing wrong with their old one, but the trend is to get a new one when your current deal runs out rather than reduce your bills. There's a way a lot of people behave and companies know how to benefit from that.
Are some cars from the LCD expensive? Sure. I saw the McLaren F1 come by the last couple weeks and thought it would be a cool car to own, but am I going to spend 20M credits for it? Nope. There are so many better cars in the game that are much cheaper to buy that I have no desire to waste my credits on it. So it came and went. I may not see it come back up for another 6 months, but that's okay because I don't need that car in order to enjoy the game. There are many ways to play this game, many choices you can make to either make races a challenge or a cake walk. There are currently 4 big credit making races that you can run endlessly if you want. You can earn millions of credits a day if you so desire. Or you can try to be in the top 3% of all the people in the weekly one lap time attack. That will net you 2M credits and its quite challenging if things have become too easy for you. So there is no reason to purchase credits for actual money.
There's no reason to buy Cr sure, but as per the above, the game is designed to encourage people to do just that. THey know most people won't, but that doesn't mean the push isn't there just like an advert onTV might not interest you, but it's still pushing a product/service/business to those inclined to be influenced by that advert. You clearly are not the target the model is intended to influence, that doesn't mean that model isn't realy, it very much is real it's very big money if it's done right.
I mean, when I look at everything this game offers for price vs the amount of hours of enjoyment I get out of it there is no other game that is currently beating it. I haven't tried the other racing games out there, I'm sure they are all good too.
I'm glad you enjoy it. I don't hate the game, but it frustrates me and doesn't engage me. It does a lot of things right but it's mixes them together in a dysfunctional way IMO. But that's just my opnion.
Have you considered playing some of the other racing games out there, or even the non-simulator driving games like GTA. Those could have a more engaging single player mode that could suit your needs more so than GT7.
Of course, and I do, I'm not sure what that has to do with the discussion at hand.
 
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Terronium-12

For My Mom, Always
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27,988
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KR_Viper
I Renown I
What exactly are you looking for out of the game?
A compelling experience, first and foremost.

There are 36 tracks with 104 different variations to play on.
And how many of those are used in the "career" mode? I guarantee you it's nothing close to the totality of either number.

You have 454 cars you can buy and race with.
And do what with them? If this entire comment is predicated on "Guys, you can make your own events!" then, while a novel feature that extends gameplay is not a rebuttal for the blatant lack thereof. GT4 still has more events across the entire game and that was on the PS2. Hell, I'm fairly certain (do correct me if I'm wrong) GT5 and/or GT6 have more events. What's even more interesting is both of the latter two feature online racing.

What's the excuse here?

5 different licenses to obtain
And, if I recall, beyond the A license play absolutely no pivotal role in the game unlike the prior mainline GT games. For being touted as a "return to form" it seems to ignore what that form was originally.

There are several AAA titles that cost just as much as GT7 and only give you 6-10 hours of play time and you have completed the game. Thats it.
That lingers a bit on being dishonest. For, what I presume are the single player games you're referring to, there's replayability in higher difficulties/new game plus, going through a collecting missing lore bits, weapons, armor, etc, etc. GT7 can be presented exactly the same, and for many this would be/is the case: once you complete the campaign and menu books what else is there to do? I have little to absolutely no interest in online racing so that's never the slightest of considerations when I'm buying a racing game.

The latest updates have added more tracks, more cars, more missions, extra cafe menus, blah, blah, blah. Seriously, how are people still complaining about this game?
The extra menu races average, as far as I've been paying attention, 2-3 additional hours of racing and then it's back to repeating the same races ad infinitum to amass credits for cars that are unnecessarily expensive because "LOL, real life". However, the game itself offers no compensatory advantages to anyone unless you spend real money. Selling cars? One of [insert car here] per day because of in-game "marketing" trends. Its entire design language is borderline predatory.

GT7 exhibits why it may very well be time to reboot the entire series and start anew.

GT5, for every problem it had (and there were many) does almost everything GT7 attempts to, but better. GT5 is a measuring stick now, that's how far the series has strayed from its — at least original — identity.
 
1,387
Zimbabwe
Zimbabwe
Unpopular opinion - I prefer the Cafe approach rather than a GT League.

Just needs a load more menu books (and for them to have more than 3 events in each one).
Then that's no longer the Cafe approach as Kaz intended.
 
1,370
Portugal
Setubal, Portugal
Grimm66Jack
A compelling experience, first and foremost.


And how many of those are used in the "career" mode? I guarantee you it's nothing close to the totality of either number.


And do what with them? If this entire comment is predicated on "Guys, you can make your own events!" then, while a novel feature that extends gameplay is not a rebuttal for the blatant lack thereof. GT4 still has more events across the entire game and that was on the PS2. Hell, I'm fairly certain (do correct me if I'm wrong) GT5 and/or GT6 have more events. What's even more interesting is both of the latter two feature online racing.

What's the excuse here?

And, if I recall, beyond the A license play absolutely no pivotal role in the game unlike the prior mainline GT games. For being touted as a "return to form" it seems to ignore what that form was originally.


That lingers a bit on being dishonest. For, what I presume are the single player games you're referring to, there's replayability in higher difficulties/new game plus, going through a collecting missing lore bits, weapons, armor, etc, etc. GT7 can be presented exactly the same, and for many this would be/is the case: once you complete the campaign and menu books what else is there to do? I have little to absolutely no interest in online racing so that's never the slightest of considerations when I'm buying a racing game.


The extra menu races average, as far as I've been paying attention, 2-3 additional hours of racing and then it's back to repeating the same races ad infinitum to amass credits for cars that are unnecessarily expensive because "LOL, real life". However, the game itself offers no compensatory advantages to anyone unless you spend real money. Selling cars? One of [insert car here] per day because of in-game "marketing" trends. Its entire design language is borderline predatory.

GT7 exhibits why it may very well be time to reboot the entire series and start anew.

GT5, for every problem it had (and there were many) does almost everything GT7 attempts to, but better. GT5 is a measuring stick now, that's how far the series has strayed from its — at least original — identity.
Couldn't have put it any better myself.

I bought GT7 myself for the single player campaign. In fact, every game I buy is for this experience alone unless it actually has a fun and engaging online mode (GTA until it started to get boring and borderline ridiculous for example). The only thing online these days I do... is for the trophies. I wouldn't care about Sport Races at all (they would've been at 0 if not for this) otherwise... Which is why I hated the trophies in GT Sport where it forced me to do 322 races online... At least GT7 made an "improvement" on that aspect and you only need to complete 50 and you don't need any poles or wins.

Extra Menus actually aren't events... Extra Menus are the Menus where you simply collect cars. For many people who have collected them after almost 10 months of playing this game, these Extra Menus are completed with the touch of a button.
These are basically grinding menus... They give you the objective to just collect cars from the credits you earn from grinding. So this is far from being engaging at all.

Café Menus and "Singular Races" (which I'm still baffled why they keep adding these pathetic races and not make actual championship formats with each individual category of cars) add for 1 hour of gameplay per month. So you're being quite modest with those 2-3 hours... Other than the update in April where they added an extra Mission Menu with 8 1hr Endurance races, no other update has provided more than 2 hours of content.
 
112
United States
United States
So, at what point did GT7 become disengaging to you? Approximately how much time of enjoyment did you get out of the game before you felt the fun is gone? I ask this because I've been playing the game for 2-3 months and have 212 hours of play time logged in, 93 of which are driving time. I haven't completed every race, I haven't completed all the missions yet, I still need to get the gold medal on S-10 to get all golds on my licenses, I only own 141 cars, I still have a lot of circuit experiences to complete and I've only began to dabble in the Sport mode/Online racing.

I can think of a lot of things I've spent money on that cost me well above $60 that I didn't get more than a few hours of enjoyment out of. Part of me thinks you are asking far too much out of a video game. When you think about it, GT7 has likely provided you an entertainment value of less than $1/hour, but it can only go so far. Something tells me that if they added a richer career mode it would really only add about 8-10 hours of "new" content to the game. But after those hours are over you would be back here saying the game isnt rich enough. that you want more. Thats just human nature. Just like anything in life, you will eventually get bored with it. Be it a job, a car, a house, a boyfriend/girlfriend/spouse, friends, a video game, etc. You will eventually tire of it and want something "new" or "better". GT7 can't be everything to everyone and that's okay. That's why there are so many games out there to play. It's why there has been 8 (counting GT Sport) iterations of Gran Tourismo and will likely be many more to come.

I think we will all eventually get the place you are at and think GT7 is not as fun as it once was. At that point you just have to realize it provided you with entertainment for a part of your life and you have moved on from there. You have "completed" the game so-to-speak. So no real need to complain about GT7. Instead it may be better to start a thread about what you would want to see in a GT8 version of the game. Maybe GT8 could have a richer career mode. Maybe it would have you start off racing in carts and you slowly graduate to driving beater cars at real tracks, then on to group 4/3/2/1 cars. Maybe it could get in to Formula 1 cars (of course this expands the game to be even larger than it already is, but it sounds like thus is what you want).

Of course this career mode alienates all the people who just want to buy Bugattis and drive 250 mph on the oval on day 1. so it's a fine line PD has to ride in order to meet the desires of the average player.

I dont know. I'm getting way off topic now. But in any case, it sounds like you have achieved all you can within GT7 and its now a grind. Sounds like you are ready to move on to another title. maybe ACC has a better career mode and could provide you the level of engagement you are looking for. I've never played it, but I hear a lot of positive things about it.
 
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Dave A

TreVoR fan for life
Premium
29,331
United Kingdom
Cuddington, Cheshire
JDA1982
So, at what point did GT7 become disengaging to you? Approximately how much time of enjoyment did you get out of the game before you felt the fun is gone? I ask this because I've been playing the game for 2-3 months and have 212 hours of play time logged in, 93 of which are driving time. I haven't completed every race, I haven't completed all the missions yet, I still need to get the gold medal on S-10 to get all golds on my licenses, I only own 141 cars, I still have a lot of circuit experiences to complete and I've only began to dabble in the Sport mode/Online racing.
I assume this is in response to my comments, and I'm not quite sure what any answer will prove or disprove. I would say iit started to lose it's hook about 60% of the way through the menu books (as at launch) so we're talking approximately 4-5hrs in perhaps (maybe a little more with the missions). And then when I hit the end of the menu books I said to myself "is that it" and I've had far less engagement with the game since.

If all I want to do is pick a car and race there are far better games for that, if all I want to do is hotlap, those same games are better for that. If I want to buy, tune, customise, race, sell, repeat, Gran Turismo 7 was my expected fix, but it just hasn't hooked me.
I can think of a lot of things I've spent money on that cost me well above $60 that I didn't get more than a few hours of enjoyment out of. Part of me thinks you are asking far too much out of a video game. When you think about it, GT7 has likely provided you an entertainment value of less than $1/hour, but it can only go so far. Something tells me that if they added a richer career mode it would really only add about 8-10 hours of "new" content to the game. But after those hours are over you would be back here saying the game isnt rich enough. that you want more. Thats just human nature. Just like anything in life, you will eventually get bored with it. Be it a job, a car, a house, a boyfriend/girlfriend/spouse, friends, a video game, etc. You will eventually tire of it and want something "new" or "better". GT7 can't be everything to everyone and that's okay. That's why there are so many games out there to play. It's why there has been 8 (counting GT Sport) iterations of Gran Tourismo and will likely be many more to come.
So can I, but part of me thinks you're deliberately missing the point now just for the sake of argument. You can try to quantify how much something cost against how much time you spent with it as a barometer of how good something is, but that's very flawed logic because a cost/time evaluation does not = fun.

If that were the case the minute you play a free to play game and enjoy it, then that instant it becomes a better product than GT7. Because any time spent enjoying something that cost no money is better than any other amount of time spent enjoying something that cost money using that logic. Time spent does not = better, in fact it can = worse because a person may feel obliged to hit a certain milestone in a game but not enjoy the grind to get there.

In just the same way, spending £10 to watch a 3hr film is not automatically a better use of your time and money than spending £10 to watch a 2hr film. Even if you enjoyed both, that is not automatically the case, because you may have enjoyed the 2hr film more. So please stop with the nonsense about time spent = great purchase. Combined with other factors it certainly can mean that, but it most certain does not = that by itself.

And of course peope tire of most games eventually, but I still play GT2, GT3 and GT4 from time to time. I also play GT5 and GT6 from time to time too, but I mod those games so the experience isn't as the game was fully intended therefore not a fair mention in this context. But in both of those I've added loads of events, custom prize cars and missions (in GT6) and balanced the games economies better so cars don't go all the way up to 20m Cr. It's much for fun, for me.
I think we will all eventually get the place you are at and think GT7 is not as fun as it once was. At that point you just have to realize it provided you with entertainment for a part of your life and you have moved on from there. You have "completed" the game so-to-speak. So no real need to complain about GT7. Instead it may be better to start a thread about what you would want to see in a GT8 version of the game. Maybe GT8 could have a richer career mode. Maybe it would have you start off racing in carts and you slowly graduate to driving beater cars at real tracks, then on to group 4/3/2/1 cars. Maybe it could get in to Formula 1 cars (of course this expands the game to be even larger than it already is, but it sounds like thus is what you want).
No not reallly, that's like saying this person thinks that film is crap, we'll all get there eventually once we've watched it enough times. That's not the way opinions work at all, not at all. You can tire of a film you liek and have seen several times, to the point you don't want to watch it again for a while yet still hold it in high regard, or you can watch a film once and think "well, that was a waste of my life".

Now, I don't think that badly of GT7, I think it has the most potential of any GT game to date, but it doesn't fulfil that potential for me, not close. I describe it having the most potential but the most dissapointing at the same time. But your logic in this discussion is highly flawed and ignorant of almost everything I have said either through ignorance or wilfulness . Either way it's not appreciated.
Of course this career mode alienates all the people who just want to buy Bugattis and drive 250 mph on the oval on day 1. so it's a fine line PD has to ride in order to meet the desires of the average player.
A very specific and obvious statement which has nothing to do with anything I've said, but ok.
But in any case, it sounds like you have achieved all you can within GT7 and its now a grind. Sounds like you are ready to move on to another title. maybe ACC has a better career mode and could provide you the level of engagement you are looking for. I've never played it, but I hear a lot of positive things about it.
No, you are completely ignoring and missing the point to everything I've said. You are not educating me on other games either. I am not here discussing GT7 becuase I don't know about other games, I'm in here because I'm interested in this discussion and I am still very much interested in Gran Turismo in general.

Allow me to remind you, you asked:
What exactly are you looking for out of the game?
I have answered this in great detail even if you are failing to grasp the points I've raised.
 
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Terronium-12

For My Mom, Always
Moderator
27,988
United States
Brooklyn, NY
KR_Viper
I Renown I
So, at what point did GT7 become disengaging to you?
Initially? The credit grind. I'm perfectly OK with grinding for money across multiple races but when it turns into monotony, not out of efficiency (how boring that is is a conversation for another day), but out of necessity because there was, at the time, no better way to make money using a car that, for all intents and purposes, didn't belong in the race, is another matter entirely.

Yes, there was also the Le Mans and Spa (it was Spa, right?) races and, yes, they were fun for a time. But as addressed above, it becomes an issue when it's monotonous.

Beyond that? A lack of events to use cars in. Why buy anything (from my point of view) when there are few places to use it without kneecapping it, thanks to BoP/PP?


Approximately how much time of enjoyment did you get out of the game before you felt the fun is gone? I ask this because I've been playing the game for 2-3 months and have 212 hours of play time logged in, 93 of which are driving time. I haven't completed every race, I haven't completed all the missions yet, I still need to get the gold medal on S-10 to get all golds on my licenses, I only own 141 cars, I still have a lot of circuit experiences to complete and I've only began to dabble in the Sport mode/Online racing.
I don't have an exact figure, but that's almost irrelevant for me. I went through most, if not all of the circuit experiences, have all of the licenses, etc. The issue for me is the game losing its appeal in less than one month's time because it was more barebones (at launch and, yes, I've played more than a few times since) than GT Sport in its then current state.

As my previous example, GT5 solved this issue with Seasonal Events. New events every week, granted after a while it was repeat events but it was still free money and a great way to use cars you'd acquired before, during or after the fact. The crux of my issue with GT7 is simply the lack of career structure. No Dream Car Championship, GT World, Super GT, etc, etc — so many licenses the game doesn't make proper use of. There's Super Formula cars — where can I use them? What happened to the Formula GT Championship? Vision GT Championship?

To be quite honest, VGT cars would be a great substitute if not compliment to the Dream Car Championship races. What happened to the creativity from previous games? GT's career was never perfect but there's little denying it was more plentiful than whatever this is now.


I think we will all eventually get the place you are at and think GT7 is not as fun as it once was. At that point you just have to realize it provided you with entertainment for a part of your life and you have moved on from there. You have "completed" the game so-to-speak. So no real need to complain about GT7. Instead it may be better to start a thread about what you would want to see in a GT8 version of the game. Maybe GT8 could have a richer career mode. Maybe it would have you start off racing in carts and you slowly graduate to driving beater cars at real tracks, then on to group 4/3/2/1 cars. Maybe it could get in to Formula 1 cars (of course this expands the game to be even larger than it already is, but it sounds like thus is what you want).
There's a reason many hold GT3 and 4 to such high regards and many of those reasons fly in the face of what you're suggesting here. I mean, GT5 already took the route of having you begin in karts and take a more...natural progression into faster vehicles. It's nothing new, which is another reason why it's so mind-numbing that we're where we are currently.

And why would it be productive to worry about what could be done in a future title when the current one is still actively being developed for? Make the current game better. Don't rely on future promises because the one(s) associated with GT7 didn't pan out particularly well.