Would the Autobahn work in North America?

[Schwartz]

After reading about the possible speed limit increase on the 401 in Ontario, Canada, it got me thinking... What if there was an Autobahn in North America? While we all agree that high or unlimited speed limits would be awesome, do you think could a road like this actually become a reality someday? In the our current economic situation, spending money on roads isn't really at the top of the Government's list. However, the creation of an Autobahn would be appealing to many people if they looked at how much safer it is to get around Germany's Autobahn than it is on a 60 MPH highway in the US.

Although the creation of the Autobahn would cost alot of the Taxpayer's money, do you think it could possibly work?

 

[hawkeye122]

After reading about the possible speed limit increase on the 401 in Ontario, Canada, it got me thinking... What if there was an Autobahn in North America? While we all agree that high or unlimited speed limits would be awesome, do you think could a road like this actually become a reality someday? In the our current economic situation, spending money on roads isn't really at the top of the Government's list. However, the creation of an Autobahn would be appealing to many people if they looked at how much safer it is to get around Germany's Autobahn than it is on a 60 MPH highway in the US.

Although the creation of the Autobahn would cost alot of the Taxpayer's money, do you think it could possibly work?

Not in California. Someone in the capital would find a reason that it destroys the environment, or is just too "unsafe". Plus it would be 30 years by the time it was finished.

 

[YSSMAN]

They tried doing it in Montana with unlimited speed limits, but they ended up reeling them back a few years ago. The big problem is that with so many of the interstate systems winding through congested urban areas, Autobahn-rated areas would be mostly suburban, or rural.

Beyond that, we'd have to federalize the highway system in a way that standardizes road quality and maintenance. There is far too much variability in funding, execution, and even weather to make it work appropriately. Up here in Michigan, they're more concerned about the cost of paving and re-paving a road than actually making an investment in materials that would last. Take a trip down our highways, even at their worst, they are better than others. Indiana is a disaster, no one wants to talk about the apocalyptic hell-hole that Ohio is.

So, its a no-go. Not in our current mix of "don't trust the government, we're spending too much" nonsense.

 

[GTMail]

There is no point to an autobahn like road anymore. What benefit does having no speed limit provide? Besides the fact that you can dangerously go as fast as you dare, there really isn't a point to it. Unless you're really late to work.

 

[SVX]

There is no point to an autobahn like road anymore. What benefit does having no speed limit provide? Besides the fact that you can dangerously go as fast as you dare, there really isn't a point to it. Unless you're really late to work.

IIRC, its benefit is to reduce highway congestion.

 

[TheCracker]

The biggest problem with an autobahn-style freeway would be educating the population to use it effectively. If users have no lane-discipline then your 'reduced congestion highway' will end up constantly ground to a halt due to the increased number of major accidents that's bound to happen.

We could never de-restrict the UK's motorway system, since 80% of the population don't know how to use a multi-lane road.

 

[Ibonibo]

It will not help free the freeways in rush hour.

Lanes changes can not be deliberated. You actually need the turn signal, make place for a faster car in your Truck....
Germany has a specific mentality in that aspect.

Will never happen, they already are drasticlly reduced in Germany, no other country will ever reinstate something like that.

 

[homeforsummer]

The biggest problem with an autobahn-style freeway would be educating the population to use it effectively. If users have no lane-discipline then your 'reduced congestion highway' will end up constantly ground to a halt due to the increased number of major accidents that's bound to happen.

We could never de-restrict the UK's motorway system, since 80% of the population don't know how to use a multi-lane road.

This. I've driven on the autobahns in Germany and it works well because everyone has immaculate lane discipline. Unlike the UK, or the US, or anywhere else I've driven.

People don't seem to abuse the privilege in Germany either - they travel quickly, but they don't take the piss. Can't see that being the case in the US.

 

[Rykon Zero]

Yeah... Not too keen on the idea.

The Autobahn itself is actually just a highway system. Sure, it's really smooth, but that's not going to be that much of a problem if it isn't. What America would need to do is simply train the drivers better which is of course, not going to happen. I'm properly terrified of German drivers because of how they go around corners, accelerate, and in general, drive a car. But that's simply because they know exactly what they're doing. American drivers are the other way, they drive extremely carefully because in general, they've got no idea what they're doing. They don't take corners ungodly fast or cruise down a narrow, barely paved farm road at 120 KPH because they know they won't be able to fix it if something goes wrong.

 

[Luminis]

Well, I'm in no position to judge American roads or drivers, but the Autobahn, for the most part, isn't unrisctricted anymore. Mostly because it's said to be bad for the environment and the like.

Anyways, maintaining the Autobahn does cost, to my knowledge, quite a lot of money. Which is partly gained due to the ionsane amounts of taxes you've got to pay when buying a gallon of gas in Germany.

As for the training of German drivers, though... Well, yeah, you could say that that is pretty strict, to say the least. As well as expensive. Add to that that we have the TÜV, which is equally strict when it comes to allowing cars to even be used on the road and it makes for a situation that allows high speed limits in the first place.

 

[daan]

The thing with the Autobahns is that the cars and the people grew up with them. They've always been there so there is no novelty of speed and the lane discipline is inbuilt.

Take away a speed limit, and people will go mad. There will be a period of reckless driving, huge accidents, and calls for speed limits to be re-introduced. Eventually, people would get used to it, and would end up driving at a speed that is comfortable to them and their car. The trouble is speed limits would probably have been re-introduced by that point due to the accidents and reckless driving before it settled down...

Generally, (and depending on the car obviously,) once a car exceeds about ~90mph then the fuel consumption is usually too high for sustained cruising anyway, and you lose more time by having to stop for fuel more often. In this economic climate, and with the price of fuel going up constantly, I would think people can't afford to drive at high speeds for long periods.

 

[Bopop4]

North American drivers and driving don't mix. The Americans might be able to handle an Autobahn but Canadian drivers couldn't. Going slow in the 100mph+ lane, switching lanes without signaling at 90. Yeah, it would be bad.

 

[peter_vod69]

The thing with the Autobahns is that the cars and the people grew up with them. They've always been there so there is no novelty of speed and the lane discipline is inbuilt.

Take away a speed limit, and people will go mad. There will be a period of reckless driving, huge accidents, and calls for speed limits to be re-introduced. Eventually, people would get used to it, and would end up driving at a speed that is comfortable to them and their car. The trouble is speed limits would probably have been re-introduced by that point due to the accidents and reckless driving before it settled down...

You'd expect that to be the case, but didn't the accident rate in Montana go down after they introduced the daytime unlimited freeways?

Generally, (and depending on the car obviously,) once a car exceeds about ~90mph then the fuel consumption is usually too high for sustained cruising anyway, and you lose more time by having to stop for fuel more often. In this economic climate, and with the price of fuel going up constantly, I would think people can't afford to drive at high speeds for long periods.

And that's the game right there. In Australia, it doesn't take you too long to get away from built-up areas, and into extremely sparsely-populated areas. On regular, two-lane blacktop, one can easily cruise at 100mph for hours at a time. The problem is, once you exceed 90-ish as Daaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaan says, the fuel economy goes through the roof. I once cruised between Darwin and Katherine in the Northern Territory in a Toyota Avalon (FWD whitegoods-spec landbarge) and though I could legally do whatever speed I chose, I generally sat between 90 and 100mph, simply because it was as fast as I could go without sending the fuel economy through the roof. I will admit I did pin the throttle to the firewall to see what it'd do (limited to 217kph, incidentally) but it wasn't a speed that was easy to maintain.

 

[Ibonibo]

^Not entierly true.
Totally depends on the car.
Most cars aren't and don't need to be fine tuned in that high speed region because it never gets used.
On German cars it's different, because those cars get driven at high speed.

I remember that the Golf V Gti had an excellent fuel economy at 200 km/h, it was praised for that in numberous articles.

So it really depends on the R&D that a company puts in the car for that range of speed.

My car gets driven on autobahns, and my best fuel economy at high speed is at around 200km/h with 9.5l/100km. Over 220, it surely doesn't become as efficent.

 

[MatskiMonk]

Well, this is what can happen if you're travelling at top speed, and then somebody decides to pull into your path...

Full story here: http://f10.m5post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=679088

Does it really ease congestion enough to be worth the risk?

 

[ND4SPD]

North American drivers and driving don't mix. The Americans might be able to handle an Autobahn but Canadian drivers couldn't. Going slow in the 100mph+ lane, switching lanes without signaling at 90. Yeah, it would be bad.

I'm pretty sure you're just describing French Canadians. In all seriousness they have got to be the worst bunch I have ever had the pleasure of driving with.....

 

[speed junkie]

So many reasons in so many categories of why it wouldn't work.

 

[Bopop4]

I'm pretty sure you're just describing French Canadians. In all seriousness they have got to be the worst bunch I have ever had the pleasure of driving with.....

Yeah, still like comparing Kraft Dinner and grilled cheese to a Keg steak though.

 

[Rusty*]

I would just like to add that the above photo's of the BMW is not the results of unlimited speed, its the results of most likely poor driving and/or poor conditions.

Terrible accidents are NOT the results of unlimited speeds...lethal accidents regularly happen on Highways that are only set to 110Km/h or 60mph what ever measurement takes your fancy.
R*

 

[Slash]

American people like to see just how fast they can get their car to go but I think it'd be a bit dangerous. I'd enjoy it though.

 

[Tyger]

Just out of interest (and perhaps I am too lazy to google it) are German cars limited for the reason that on the autobahn you could otherwise take your M3 or whatever up to 200?

One way of looking at this discussion is why speed restrictions were brought in, in the first place. Allegedly, in the UK it was some time in the late 60s when a Cobra was clocked at 170mph. Much as I love Cobras, that's pretty terrifying. It doesn't help that us Brits, as drivers, can be a bit "mental" as they say here =)

 

[MatskiMonk]

Just out of interest (and perhaps I am too lazy to google it) are German cars limited for the reason that on the autobahn you could otherwise take your M3 or whatever up to 200?

One way of looking at this discussion is why speed restrictions were brought in, in the first place. Allegedly, in the UK it was some time in the late 60s when a Cobra was clocked at 170mph. Much as I love Cobras, that's pretty terrifying. It doesn't help that us Brits, as drivers, can be a bit "mental" as they say here =)

Gentlemans agreement between manufacturers, probably with an eye on not letting too many of their customers kill themselves!

 

[oopssorryy]

I dont think it would work that well. In Ohio at least, all the major roads go right into a town, or five of them. The last bypass Ohio built took TWELVE YEARS! Our roads also hate tires in general. Most drivers are so into their radios, sat navs or cell phones that they just don't pay any attention to the road. I would just be happy if Ohio haf a couple 75mph areas.

 

[peter_vod69]

Just out of interest (and perhaps I am too lazy to google it) are German cars limited for the reason that on the autobahn you could otherwise take your M3 or whatever up to 200?

Gentlemans agreement between manufacturers, probably with an eye on not letting too many of their customers kill themselves!

I thought it was because Porsche was the official "fast car" of Germany and the rule therefore was "thou shalt not blow a 911 into the weeds on the Autobahn"?

 

[Keef]

I don't think there's any need for an "autobahn" here in the states, but the speed limit should definitely be high enough to allow reasonable people to drive at a speed reasonable for the location and conditions. This should definitely be in effect for loop highways around cities.

Even more important than that should be forceful driver education on proper highway etiquette. Lane usage, lane changing, passing, planning ahead, how to turn off cruise control without using the brake pedal, and merging, merging, merging. God damn it, merging. I absolutely refuse to move out of the proper cruising lane, the far right lane, while approaching an entrance ramp. If a person isn't going at least as fast as traffic by the time they get to the highway then that's their problem to deal with - the book says they have to yield to traffic established on the highway, and that it is their job to merge into said traffic. Your car has a gas pedal for a reason. Use it.

 

[MatskiMonk]

Even more important than that should be forceful driver education on proper highway etiquette. Lane usage, lane changing, passing, planning ahead, how to turn off cruise control without using the brake pedal, and merging, merging, merging. God damn it, merging.

Agreed, In the UK learner drivers aren't allowed on motorways (as we call 'em) until after they've passed their test and got their license, and then motorway lessons are only optional - I suspect only a tiny percentage of the population do it... so most people are never taught, or tested on, how to drive on a 3+ lane road.

 

[Keef]

Depending on location, its often likely that drivers here will never get to drive a highway while learning. The test is all surface roads. I think the driving school took me on the highway once or twice but its really up to the student if he wants to try it.

I've got zero tolerance for timidity in such a simple yet potentially dangerous situation. Either do it right or don't do it at all. The end goal should be simplicity and efficiency - safety will be a side effect of these goals, while simplicity and efficiency are not necessarily side effects of safety. Here's a life lesson for you: Safety first my ass! I've got places to be, and I expect to get there by cooperating with my competent and capable fellow drivers in a simple and efficient manner.

 

[Danoff]

In west Texas the speed limit is 80mph and people can't do it. They do about 70mph (whether for gas mileage or safety). I've never seen anyone out there going nuts.

The big mistake folks in this thread are making is that they're assuming that the crazy people they commute with in the city are going to drive just as insanely on the freeways between cities. It just doesn't happen in my experience, and I do a lot of inter-city freeway driving.

I would LOVE for the speed limit in some of these empty places to be more like 100 or 110mph, even limitless. It would really allow driving instead of flying for a lot of trips, and that's a great thing. A 100 mph speed limit puts a 1000 mile trip within a day's striking distance. Almost half of the inter-city traffic seems to be large trucks, and they handle lane discipline well. Give a few people tickets for being in the wrong lane, and everyone will shape up.

 

[Keef]

The only problem with 110 mph is that my car, for example, which gets about 25 mpg at a steady 70 mph cruise, will be getting less than 15 mpg at 110. A Cessna 172 will get that at 130 mph, in a straight line, with a near-5 hour range. Depending on rental price, flying the 172 to a destination 4 hours away and splitting the cost with three friends will be cheaper for me than driving my car there alone at 110 mph. I'll get there sooner, easier, safer, much less stressful, never dealing with traffic, with a better view and a dash of baller status because I'm a pilot.

Ya'll can have your autobahn, but the faster you drive your car the more appealing flying a small plane becomes.

 

[savage388]

Not a chance it would work. Most drivers lack the discipline to stay in the correct lane or use turn signals let alone having a pass to go as fast as they can, more than likely in cars that are way to beat on to be safe at those speeds. I'd love it though.