Would the Autobahn work in North America?

[hawkeye122]

On my trip from Redding, California(About 100-ish miles from the oregon border) to LA (More specifically, Tustin), I found that North of the Bay Area/Sacramento, people drove fairly reasonably. On the 2-wide bits, people only went to the left if they were passing. On the 3-wides, the Right lane was for trucks and Vans, and then everybody was in the middle at 70, and only at the far left if they were passing. (This is Interstate 5, one of the longer, more traveled roads in the USA)

Meanwhile, once you get past about... Stockton, people get lazy. Nearly everyone but the trucks stay in the left lane. This means that if you are driving the way the system intends, you are fighting to get back into the left lane just to pass a single truck. You make the pass, and pull back to the right. Eventually, you catch another truck, and have the same battle once again.
Eventually, you become tired of this, and just stay in the left lane, like everyone else. The pace of the left lane is usually about 80-85 MPH. But for myself, that isn't acceptable, because my parents were in the car (I'm 16.5 years old). So you slow to 75, and soon, people behind you become impatient. They then dive into the right, and race up to pass you. Again, being a courteous driver, I let them in, which in turn slows the whole train down, again. It's a constant game/battle until you get past the Grapevine, and the lanes go to about 5 wide.

I think it's safe to say that from my experience alone, that the average So-Cal driver couldnt pull it off.

Not to mention, if theres an accident blocking the road, and you get rush hour traffic totally stopped... I'm fairly certain the Trophy Wives driving their husbands lifted F350 have the ability to stop from 80+ in time to not hit someone.


I see speed limits as Natural Selection. I know thats pretty cold, but honestly... If you're going too fast, thats your own fault. And if you get hit by that guy, you obviously werent paying enough attention, didnt have the reaction times needed, etc.

 

[Antonisbob]

Sure, we'd need stronger tires though (Probably) lol.

 

[Doog]

I could see it working, somewhat. The main issue is that a lot of people don't use their turn signals, especially on the East side of town where I live. Over here, people are good about doing a reasonable speed and not tailgating and whatnot, but when it comes time to change lanes, they can't be bothered to flick that little stalk on their steering column. Lazy gits. Now on the West side of town, people drive faster, and there's more people on the highway to begin with. But, at least they're smart enough to signal when they want to change lanes. Problem is, an autobahn wouldn't really work over there, because the highway runs through a built-up suburban area, with tons of people, and for a 5 mile stretch, there's an exit every mile. Factor in all the people entering and exiting the highway all at once at high speed ends up to bed disaster. Now, in the northern area of town, it starts getting less crowded, and the highway there is long and straight, and the exits are nice and long, with plenty of braking time. I could see an autobahn being used there, and I could see it being used more effectively from getting from the outskirts to the city and vice-versa without having to putter along at 65. So, it could work, but only in rural areas that have a good infrastructure.

 

[YSSMAN]

In west Texas the speed limit is 80mph and people can't do it. They do about 70mph (whether for gas mileage or safety). I've never seen anyone out there going nuts.

Very strange as a Michigander. Speed limits are 70 MPH, everyone usually goes 80 MPH on the west side. East of Lansing? If you aren't doing 90 MPH, you aren't going fast enough.

 

[McLaren]

No. Not only because our country has the worst driving standards, but because Americans already have it in their head that the Autobahns are always unlimited; there are in fact speed limits on it & they are strictly enforced.

We don't need them here, esp. not in DFW. The George Bush Tollway, North Dallas Tollway, & 121 unofficial speed limits are already 80-90Mph & are open enough for those who are brave enough to test the State Troopers, hence why we call them "Mexico". I can't imagine Dallas drivers having any more freedom to actually go faster without it being against the law considering half of them will actually continue to drive 5-15mph under the limit in the fast lane.

 

[Kylehnat]

Speed limits in the U.S. are too low, given the braking and handling capabilities of today's cars. The driving talent in this country is too low to raise or eliminate the speed limits, even on rural freeways. If we went to an Autobahn-like system, Americans would EVENTUALLY adapt, and it would work. In a backwards way, it actually promotes responsibility. However, there would be an immediate spike in accidents and deaths on the unlimited sections of road. Lawmakers, lawyers, and the insurance industry would demand speed limits...and they would get them back.

I felt more safe on the unrestricted sections of Autobahn than I do driving from Olympia to Seattle on I-5. Even with closing speeds of 60-100 mph, the Autobahn seems to work. The lane discipline and general awareness shown by German drivers is so far ahead of North Americans, it's disgusting.

 

[Schwartz]

I felt more safe on the unrestricted sections of Autobahn than I do driving from Olympia to Seattle on I-5. Even with closing speeds of 60-100 mph, the Autobahn seems to work. The lane discipline and general awareness shown by German drivers is so far ahead of North Americans, it's disgusting.

Definitely. In Germany you have to be 18 and actually be a good driver to get your license. There are some people I know who should not be allowed to drive.

 

[ShobThaBob]

No. Not only because our country has the worst driving standards, but because Americans already have it in their head that the Autobahns are always unlimited; there are in fact speed limits on it & they are strictly enforced.

We don't need them here, esp. not in DFW. The George Bush Tollway, North Dallas Tollway, & 121 unofficial speed limits are already 80-90Mph & are open enough for those who are brave enough to test the State Troopers, hence why we call them "Mexico". I can't imagine Dallas drivers having any more freedom to actually go faster without it being against the law considering half of them will actually continue to drive 5-15mph under the limit in the fast lane.

I find it odd that you say that. Texas is twice the size of Germany, but we have several large Metro cities which could easily be connected by main highways. Travel time across and around Texas could be shortened by quite a bit with higher speed limits. Having incredibly high speed limits in cities isn't the best idea, but as a way to travel quickly, there's no reason not to. 110/120 doesn't have to be all that different from 80mph.

The other to consider is the term itself. If speed limits were reasonable, they would actually be enforced as a 'limit' and no a "you can all go this speed and not get a ticket." There's a huge difference between those two things.

 

[Antonisbob]

Definitely. In Germany you have to be 18 and actually be a good driver to get your license. There are some people I know who should not be allowed to drive.

We've got a show here called "Canada's Worst Driver" that comes to mind discussing all this. One of my favorites actually.

 

[MedigoFlame]

Definitely not in the United States. There just isn't enough training for drivers to be responsible on roads without speed limits. I'm sure plenty of teens would go nuts...and then crash. If it was to happen, I have a feeling things won't go down too well.

 

[CMvan46]

We've got a show here called "Canada's Worst Driver" that comes to mind discussing all this. One of my favorites actually.

Fantastic show 👍

No won't work in North America. In much of BC and Alberta the freeway winds far too often because of the landscape it travels through and around.

Also, something not about driver ability, is that the cost associated with an Autobahn is very much a waste of money. That money could be used in many better ways than to help people get where they are going 10 minutes faster.

 

[ShortAznGuy]

We would all die.

 

[niky]

While some of us can drive at speeds of 100-120 mph, no problem, most cars and drivers on the road can't... and most drivers can't be trusted to know that they can't, and to know that the car they're driving can't, and that the conditions they're driving in won't support it.

Even those of us who are perfectly comfortable driving at high speeds aren't supermen. I remember one blog post by writer Jack Baruth that had the readership in an uproar, where he credited training and racecraft with saving his life. It "saved his life" because he was doing 130 mph when he came upon the scene of a pile-up... durrrh...

I think 80 mph is a perfectly acceptable limit, because most people find their comfort zone between 60-70 mph. But anything below 60, in modern cars where you have to feather the throttle with micrometric precision to maintain such a speed, is just cruel.

Ya'll can have your autobahn, but the faster you drive your car the more appealing flying a small plane becomes.

I'm sure Buddy Holley felt the same way.

So sayeth one who is deathly scared of flying...

 

[McLaren]

I find it odd that you say that. Texas is twice the size of Germany, but we have several large Metro cities which could easily be connected by main highways. Travel time across and around Texas could be shortened by quite a bit with higher speed limits. Having incredibly high speed limits in cities isn't the best idea, but as a way to travel quickly, there's no reason not to. 110/120 doesn't have to be all that different from 80mph.

The other to consider is the term itself. If speed limits were reasonable, they would actually be enforced as a 'limit' and no a "you can all go this speed and not get a ticket." There's a huge difference between those two things.

Texas already has the highest speed limits in the entire country at 80mph & the approval to raise the limit to 85Mph, which is around the average speed of the Autobahn to begin with. And even though that limit exists only on 2 roads in West Texas, you still have a 65-70Mph limit on other highways.

And these people can't drive for hell on these roads. You have folks who don't pay attention to the road & then you have folks who can't do the speed limit. A 110Mph limit isn't going to stop these idiots from deciding 90Mph is fast enough.

 

[Blackbird.]

Texas already has the highest speed limits in the entire country at 80mph & the approval to raise the limit to 85Mph, which is around the average speed of the Autobahn to begin with. And even though that limit exists only on 2 roads in West Texas, you still have a 65-70Mph limit on other highways.

And these people can't drive for hell on these roads. You have folks who don't pay attention to the road & then you have folks who can't do the speed limit. A 110Mph limit isn't going to stop these idiots from deciding 90Mph is fast enough.

Hmm I think i need to go to Texas.

 

[daan]

Just out of interest (and perhaps I am too lazy to google it) are German cars limited for the reason that on the autobahn you could otherwise take your M3 or whatever up to 200?

Gentlemans agreement between manufacturers, probably with an eye on not letting too many of their customers kill themselves!

As I understand it, it's got a lot to do with tyres. As we all know, tyres are speed rated and the speed rating of the tyre should be higher than the top speed of the car. If the car is capable of 190mph, then so must the tyre. Limiting a potential 190mph car to 155 means that a tyre with a >155mph speed rating can be used, rather than 190mph speed rated tyre, and lower rated tyres are generally cheaper.

 

[Ibonibo]

^People who could buy the cars which broke the 220km/h in that time where very rare and expensive. So that customer group would have had the money to buy expensive tires.
The gentleman agreement was made because the autoindustry went nuts with producing cars with hillarious top speed as selling arguments. (in the 60's/70's if my memory serves me right)
Remember, in that time, there was no TC, ABS, ESP,... so doing an actual 200 mph was very dangerous for the average Joe.
To break that spiraling in achieving higher top speed the gentleman agreement was made.
That was the main reason, but was supported by road safety organisations, gouverments,fuel crisis....

For the same reason, roads received top speed limitations. There was a time, when there was none (at the very beginning).

Nearly the same reason why the limitations in Japan.

Also the cost for a speed limit free autobahn is not different from a normal highway. The most degradation these road get are from heavy load vehicules, not high speed vehicules

 

[ShobThaBob]

Texas already has the highest speed limits in the entire country at 80mph & the approval to raise the limit to 85Mph, which is around the average speed of the Autobahn to begin with. And even though that limit exists only on 2 roads in West Texas, you still have a 65-70Mph limit on other highways.

And these people can't drive for hell on these roads. You have folks who don't pay attention to the road & then you have folks who can't do the speed limit. A 110Mph limit isn't going to stop these idiots from deciding 90Mph is fast enough.

I think my point was that just because the limit could be 110 or 120, that doesn't mean that you HAVE to drive at the limit. For plenty of cars and conditions, 90mph is completely reasonable, even in a rural setting without much traffic. Moving away from a system where you must be driving 'at the limit' or else you're holding down traffic and more towards a system with reasonable limits would be better for transportation. A small bit of better drivers education could go a long way towards making long stretches of freeway easier, but honestly I don't see much issue with them now. You get a lot of idiots within cities, but long stretches of nothingness generally don't have a lot of stupid populating them.

Certain parts of the government think systems like this are a decent idea. You might recall the Texas legislature attempting to push something called the Texas Corridor or something similar out. The extra bit of land requisition would've caused problems for people getting reelected, so it never passed.

 

[Blackbird.]

I think my point was that just because the limit could be 110 or 120, that doesn't mean that you HAVE to drive at the limit. For plenty of cars and conditions, 90mph is completely reasonable, even in a rural setting without much traffic.

Well at least here, everyone's in a hurry. If the limit here got bumped up to 80mph people will be going 85-90mph.

 

[Adamgp]

Will it work here? no.

Too many big trucks, poor road conditions, etc.

Will they ever consider it, even out in the middle of nowhere? no.

Giving out tickets is a revenue generator for cities and towns.

 

[ShobThaBob]

The trucks in Europe come across as much larger, but I suppose they could be the same size. The giant Mercedes diesels just have a big profile. *shrug* Either way, it's not like everyone drives tiny 1.3s all over Germany.

Also, it HAS been considered in the US. Did you just skip over the rest of the posts in the thread?

 

[E28]

The trucks in Europe come across as much larger, but I suppose they could be the same size. The giant Mercedes diesels just have a big profile. *shrug* Either way, it's not like everyone drives tiny 1.3s all over Germany.

Also, it HAS been considered in the US. Did you just skip over the rest of the posts in the thread?

Hmm, as far as I know they are about the same size, although maybe ours are longer.

One common issue in the UK is trucks overtaking each other on dual carriageways. You end up with one truck in the overtaking lane below the speed limit going about 1 mph faster than the truck it's overtaking.

 

[McLaren]

I think my point was that just because the limit could be 110 or 120, that doesn't mean that you HAVE to drive at the limit.

They don't drive at the limit now, that's my point. There's no point to raise the limit to those speeds because the same idiots will always go well under the limit to the point that even the law considers it a ticket-able offense.

For plenty of cars and conditions, 90mph is completely reasonable, even in a rural setting without much traffic. Moving away from a system where you must be driving 'at the limit' or else you're holding down traffic and more towards a system with reasonable limits would be better for transportation.

How so? The same morons will still hold up traffic in the fast lane because the average joe considers every lane equal. It doesn't matter what the limit is. 60mph? They'll do 50. 120mph? They'll do 100mph. These people will always retain the mindset that they don't have to go anywhere near the limit to be breaking the law, & don't care about whose behind them.

A small bit of better drivers education could go a long way towards making long stretches of freeway easier, but honestly I don't see much issue with them now. You get a lot of idiots within cities, but long stretches of nothingness generally don't have a lot of stupid populating them.

You don't see the issue? This country has the worst driver's education system in the world, from my experience. People in Asia drive like maniacs. Weird thing about it? They KNOW how to drive with each other & avoid accidents. They hold each other in regard.

People here have no regard for others & the penalty is so small, they don't care. People get away with cutting each other off, driving slow, hell, driving without a valid license. And it doesn't matter where they are. Yes, the less populated parts aren't as bad as the city areas & people tend to know to stay in the right lane. But, I've driven from DFW to Los Angeles before & there are still the same idiots who believe the road is theirs to own and everyone else is just going way too fast. This is the idiot going 15mph under the limit.

 

[ShobThaBob]

You should go drive in the middle east. Your stance on our drivers education being the worst would definitely change. That being said, there's nothing wrong with not going the speed limit. There's a very safe way to do it - in the right lane.

http://www.autoblog.com/2012/04/20/delaware-to-crack-down-on-left-lane-slowpokes-w-poll/

Just gonna drop that there. Besides, if people want to break the law, then you should be complaining about the law not cracking down on them. The thing you're complaining about is a pretty simple thing to fix.

Since this keeps getting ignored, I'll reiterate. If the speed limits weren't so low, there wouldn't be constant pressure from people like you for people to be doing the speed limit. On a 3 lane interstate outside of a city, there's no good reason we shouldn't be ALLOWED to do triple digit speeds. Allowed is the operative word. On the other side of that, there's plenty of room for people who don't want to do those speeds. The number of people who max out on the unrestricted parts of the autobahn can't be that high. There are trucks. There are cars that DON'T do 150mph. Does that mean the roads don't work? No, it means that not everyone feels the need to be going fast, and people who want to go fast need to be cognizant of that and not feel entitled to it.

People with that mindset are a big problem on our roads as well.

 

[oopssorryy]

The US is far from the best when it comes to good driving, but it's also far from the worst. The drivers around were I live drive at what ever speed they want to. I've seen people going 50 in a 65 and others going 85 in a 60. Most people don't signal or pay attention to who's in the lane they are merging into. If there isn't a hole for them to go into they will either continue to merge and hope someone moves, or slam into someone. I was taught to fear other drivers, and to watch out for their mistakes, not to respect them. Most people I talk to say "A good driver worries about the other drivers on the road. As long as your in your lane and going the speed limit, the only thing that can hurt you is the guy next to you." This, at least were I live, is the biggest reason the Autobahn wouldn't work in Ohio, if not the rest of the US.

 

[Bram Turismo]

People seem to be confusing the word "Autobahn" with a stretch of road where you can drive as fast as you like. This is incorrect. Autobahn simply means "Highway", and there are actually few places where there is no speed limit. Most places the speed limit is 130 km/h. People all around Germany just drive fast in general.

 

[ExigeEvan]

The only problem with 110 mph is that my car, for example, which gets about 25 mpg at a steady 70 mph cruise, will be getting less than 15 mpg at 110. A Cessna 172 will get that at 130 mph, in a straight line, with a near-5 hour range. Depending on rental price, flying the 172 to a destination 4 hours away and splitting the cost with three friends will be cheaper for me than driving my car there alone at 110 mph. I'll get there sooner, easier, safer, much less stressful, never dealing with traffic, with a better view and a dash of baller status because I'm a pilot.

Ya'll can have your autobahn, but the faster you drive your car the more appealing flying a small plane becomes.

Not convinced. You've still got to get too-and-from the airfield and you're going to have near nill available payload for luggage between 4 people in a 172?