WSCC Production Cars Group-N Race Series

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kprawny1

kprawny1

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kprawny1



Production Cars Group N (246hp-1200kg) Race Series

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A racing league open to all normal production cars respecting following rules:
Minimum weight: 1200 kg
Maximum power 246 bhp (or 250 PS)
Tires: comfort or sports (no race tires)
All drivetrains (FF, MR, FR, 4WD, RR) allowed
All other modifications allowed – No Performance Points limit
New 1.06 update features ballast and power restrictor allowed
Are not allowed: RM-cars /Concept cars / Race cars / Tune-Drift cars (Mugen, Nismo, etc.)

Tuesdays at 9:30pm UK/2:30pm EST - Starts March 1st

Season Calendar:
A 3 Months Season (Prize car each Month)
Each Month 3 “thematic” events (2 races of 20-25 minutes) and 1 endurance


Season Prizes
1st place and season winner will receive the prestigious title of WSCC Group N (246hp/1200hp) Champion, a place on our Wall of Champions and a 2010 McLaren MP4-12C
2nd place will receive a Amuse Nismo 380RS Super Leggera
3rd place will receive a 2007 Mini Cooper S

Racing rules
Start and grid order: Standing Start with False Start Detection
Race 1: Qualification / Race 2: inversed result Race 1
Boost: off
Race finish delay: maximum allowed
Track edge/wet track traction: real
Tire / Fuel depletion: On
Mechanical damage: real, you will need to pit in order to have repairs
ASM/Active Steering/Skid recovery: off
All other assists: drivers choice
Please respect WSCC rules and have fun

Sanctions: All replays will be reviewed and Penalties given for reckless driving and cutting corners.
Delay for sending claims concerning racing incidents and rules violations to the host: next day 5:00 pm WSCC-time.

Championship points
Regular Races: 1st to 5th: 10-7-5-3-2.
All other drivers who finish the race: 1 point
Endurance Races: Double points

Event Schedule (approximately)
22:30: Lobby open; qualifying can start on Track 1
22:45: End of qualifying / Start Race 1
23:30: Start Race 2 (except for Endurance Events)
00:00: Official Event End

Join us for this and many more clean racing events at WSCC!


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Oh man, I love your ideas for all of these series, but the times don't work at all. :(
 
Micra_K11Squad
Count me in on this one!

Hi Micra, welcome to the series.
The races will take place in my lounge.
March 1st is a test trackday, on March 8ththere is a preseason event and the actual championship starts on the 15 th.
During the championship (detailed program on the WSCC members site), two races will be held on a custom Toscana track.
Since you're already on my friends list, you can already download these two coursemaker tracks. "WSCC endurance" will be used in Month 2, "WSCC drafting Paradise" will be used in Month 3.

EDIT:

My lounge will be open from 22:00 GMT to 23:00 for car testing on Cape Ring periphery.
I prepared a dozen of cars and will put some of them on my share list, that should permit those who still hesitate to test without having to prepare a car.
 
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i would love to do this...250hp lets me use my wide range of Celica's....but unless you can start a little later...like the same time as the low power cup...i can't do it.....im in new york city....and i work full time so it is a little to early for me
 
The problem is that for europeans, if we start at 22:30 GMT, the events will end very late, too late for those who have to work the next day.

Nevertheless, only one day after the announcement, we already had several reactions. The question should be discussed within the WSCC-club (to participate to the championship, one should join the WSCC-club (membership is free)). But I believe, that if there is enough interest, we could perhaps start an independent american championship, with an american host.

You'll be hearing from us.
 
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Matyltest
This looks so cool!

Gonna try my best to show up=)
Click to expand...

You'll see: we'll have great races with these cars.
Don't forget to register on the WSCC website.

By the way: you didn't hit me yesterday in the Fiat 500 race. I went wide to double you and forgot my tires were cold.

But your apologies show that you are the kind of fair driver we can use in WSCC-events:tup:

If you don't have a prepared car yet, you can borrow one. I put two of mine online.

At the end of the weekend, i'll post here a "Test report" concerning some potential cars.
 
Hi everyone,

Thank for your interest in this series, please remember that you must be a member of the club to participate, it's very easy, just go to WSCC in the membership page are simple instructions on how to become a member.
Once your membership is approved just sign-up for this or any other club events in the forum event sing-up thread.

Thank you and have a great time, it's going to be a fun series.

Prawny
 
ID_racing
I´ve picked and prepared 2 cars for testing on trackday tomorrow, looking forward to this event.
Click to expand...

I've been testing with a dozen of cars. They all are pretty close (less than 1 second difference on Tsukuba, 2 or 3 seconds on the 5.8 miles WSCC road endurance). Testing showed also that, on different tracks, the hierarchy of the cars is quite different. For the moment, I hesitate between a Civic and an RX8.

We might have an issue: on the 197 BHP Club page,

https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?t=179024

they say that powerfull cars restricted to 50 or 60% of their power might blow away the concurrence. I'm going to do some testing this evening to see whether this is true for the 246 bhp limit. If it is, we must restrict the list of cars that can participate by a rule like: "no cars with a nominative power higher than xxx". (the complete carlist on http://www.mygranturismo.net/ could be used as an indication.



Of course, the aim of the competition is not that everybody lines up with Ferraris, Lambos or Corvettes restricted to 246 BHP.
 
turbogeit
We might have an issue: on the 197 BHP Club page,

https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?t=179024

they say that powerfull cars restricted to 50 or 60% of their power might blow away the concurrence. I'm going to do some testing this evening to see whether this is true for the 246 bhp limit. If it is, we must restrict the list of cars that can participate by a rule like: "no cars with a nominative power higher than xxx". (the complete carlist on http://www.mygranturismo.net/ could be used as an indication.
Click to expand...

I agree. The weight reduction option I like because I can reduce the weight to slightly below race specs, and "fill up" with ballast I can use for finetuning.

But the HP restriction seems in my logic to be unfair. Imagine a car which in stock condition is close to 246 BHP. (250ps) Then you add racing air filters -manifolds, exhaust, cat ..the works, and smack on a high rev turbo.

Reduce the HP to 246, and I would think that you get the added benefit of a certain percentage (the percentage you reduce the HP to) of the effect of the racing air filters -manifolds, exhausts, cats and turbo!...compared to the stock car.

And thats probably why, people see a better torque performance from reduced cars than stock with the same amount of BHP.

I like the idea of distinct racing classes, 200ps, 250ps 300ps etc, I fear we are going to see GT500 cars reduced to 300BHP and having advantages over the real GT300 cars etc. Its going to be a **** mess.
 
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I agree with you guy's, but only if the event is not set-up properly. Take for example the GT300, at WSCC you can only use GT300 cars to compete in that series (starting in the near future), and likewise for the TG500.
In addition, the performance points take in to account all of the cars performance like braking, grip, acceleration, power, etc. So to set-up an event properly one has to consider the cars, the power and the performance points.
This is only part 1, part 2 is taking that list of cars and after all the specifications are on paper, actually test each one on the same two tracks, one with lots of turns and one with long straights to compare lap times. The reason for the two tracks is that two cars with the same total performance can and will behave differently, one can be much faster in the straights while the other much better at cornering. Also the cars must be tested with stock tuning settings to get a true image of each car’s performance.

Step 3 involves a study of the data and applying varying performance points limitations to each car to achieve a close and balanced field as best as possible. In the case of WSCC’s Super GT series, I am on stage 3 and almost 2 months of testing in to it.

Things can be simplified by using the maximum performance points of the lowest scoring car as the maximum for all other cars in the series, this is a quick way to get things going and usually works fairly well, but the process described above really fine tunes the entire field for a very competitive event.

After all this is said and done, each driver then tunes their cars, this changes the cars behavior sometimes for the better and sometimes not.
It’s important to note that tuning a car’s settings may not increase or decrease its performance points but can destroy the cars handling if done incorrectly or turn it into the ultimate driving machine, both will impact lap times along with driver skill.
 
I agree with you for 95% . Problem is that a big part of the testing was done before the 1.06 update and that the new features (extra weight and power restriction) change the picture.

When I had the idea to create the group N production series, those features didn't exist and it was impossible to use a car with a nominative power of more than 260 BHP. Some 246+ bhp could be used at the condition that you never give them an oil change.

Now things are different: a 490 BHP car of 1000 kg can be brought in with 200 kg of ballast and with a power restriction of 50%.

The idea of the competition was to race with normal cars (Honda, Mazda, BMW, Ford, Audi, etc), like the ones you see every day in your street, not really to have an "asthmatic Ferrari and Lambo" competition. If these cars can blow away the Hondas, Mazdas and BMWs, they should not enter.

A second problem concerns the PP system. It works fine for cars of the same type (GT300 - GT500), which by their specifications are very close. But when you come to use them on a variety of cars, it doesn't work. For the moment, my two best cars are the Honda Civic and the RX-8. But they have about 15 to 25 points less than other cars which they beat easily on slow and fast tracks (I used WSCC road endurance and Tsukuba). If you replace the power/weight restrictions (which cannot be combined with PP restrictions) by a PP restinction, they'll blow away the concurrence.

I'll post this evening a report of my testing results.
 
Good point.

How about creating a list or just a rule that of cars allowed to enter the event, let's say under 350 horse power?

You will always have some better than others but this may help.
 
kprawny1
Good point.

How about creating a list or just a rule that of cars allowed to enter the event, let's say under 350 horse power?

You will always have some better than others but this may help.
Click to expand...

That's one of the hypothesis I'm on for the moment. I'm thinking about 246 x 1.5 for the limit (being 369 bhp). The idea behind that is that in real world most cars are available with different motorizations and that for cars up to that limit, you can bring in a "low budget version" with less power.

Even if they aren't faster when restricted, in real world racing, Ferraris, Zondas, Lamborghinis have never been considered as being group N production cars.They would on the contrary be convenient for a GT-N championship (not now, but later, after the end of this season perhaps), in which they participate in real world racing.
 
Just for the fun of it, i started to play with tuningoptions of sertain normal sedans(hrmf, subaru impreza).

What i came to after some testing is that the car can be a beast, you can tune it to 245ish hp and its good, but if you tune it to 450hp and restrict it to 245ish, then you have a BEAST(¤474PP!).

Wih carefull tuning i could get max torque already at 3100rpm, and 246hp constant from 3200rpm up to redline.

This car aqtualy has twice the torque of other cars that have a stock hp in the 250hp area.

So my suggestion is that we just rely on each other to be honest, and we all agree to just use a "sport package", and that we all agree to use the limiters and ballast ONLY to finetune the car(or if its just out of the alowed limits).
 
The power limitation and the ballast facilities open the competition for much more cars than we thought originally. This has a positive impact: most cars of 1200 kg and 246 HP are very close.

Nevertheless, there is a serious problem: restricted 400+ bhp cars blow away normal 246 BHP production cars. I made a test with a Ferrari and a Zonda C12. With the Zonda I needed only two laps to beat my best WSCC road endurance time with nearly three seconds, while all other cars were very close (less than 3 seconds between the fastest and the slowest "normal" car.

So, we'll have to introduce a limitation on the nominative power of vehicles that can enter the competition.
Example: exclusion of car that have "stock" more than 350 BHP on the reference list of http://www.mygranturismo.net/
We'll discuss this on this evenings members trackday.

@matyltest: I have no problems with the idea that people tune up the car, using the restrictor to stay in the hp limit while having a huge torque. The basic idea of the competition was to tune some "ordinary" cars as good as possible. In any case, I think we should never forbid things we can't control.

On the other hand, we must avoid that a "production car" championship becomes a competition where you have to align a Ferrari, a RUF or a Zonda to have a chance to win.
Don't forget to sign up on the WSCC-clubsite.
 
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I sent you a FR turbogeit, and i made the subaru available in my online garage, its just genericly tuned to prevent powerundersteer and uneven tyrewear.

Its almost tuned to the max and restricted down to 246.
 
Hi, last Tuesday, we had our first Group N-trackday, as you can see on the photos. We raced on SS5, Daytona Road (no photos, I got disconnected) and Monza in the rain.

Tuesday March 8th, we'll have our second pre-season race, composed by three short 15 minutes races on:

- Deep Forest
- Autumn Ring
- High Speed Ring (Rain)

You can still sign-up for the championship, which starts at Tuesday March 15th. Remember, it's a members only WSCC-event. So, you should first register as a WSCC-member.

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