Yamauchi at DICE 2011: Gran Turismo to invoke mimesis creating Existance

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I haven't played GT in 3D, but I'd like to point out that good graphics play almost no role here. I've never cared much for graphics, and older GT games have provided experiences rivaling the newer ones. The gameplay is important, not 3D.
 
I haven't played GT in 3D, but I'd like to point out that good graphics play almost no role here. I've never cared much for graphics, and older GT games have provided experiences rivaling the newer ones. The gameplay is important, not 3D.

Of course that goes without saying. But when you combine the great gameplay (physics), with a great sounding car , a great track, day/night, a good steering wheel and then put it in 3D, you do truly get a stunning experience that you won't forget.

I WIN:):):) Just joking, nice to not always be at loggerheads with you:sly:
I'm semi-reasonable :)
 
- Ahhh the good life huh. Wish i could say the same sometimes.

And I lived in Buffalo NY for ten years, so I very much appreciate having no neighbors that 94% of the time smell like burnt curry mystery meat smelling up my apartment! Plus I can crank GT5 on my 1000watt home theater to +16.5 db and no one cares!
 
BWX
And I lived in Buffalo NY for ten years, so I very much appreciate having no neighbors that 94% of the time smell like burnt curry mystery meat smelling up my apartment! Plus I can crank GT5 on my 1000watt home theater to +16.5 db and no one cares!

After 11pm my neighbour asks me to turn the subwoofer down because apparently it vibrates his bed headboard and he doesn't appreciate it. I'm jealous of you.

I'm like wtf what can be better than sitting in the lounge,lights off with the surround sound cranked up max doing hotlaps of nurburgring in the night and then it's all ruined when he come's a knockin...
 
Yeah I went through that with neighbors. I just never really cranked any music/movie/game etc.. especially after dark. That sucked.
 
Play it in 3D with surround sound and then comment,otherwise your talking without a clue.

it's nothing special.

the local sony pro shop has it, my friend also has a samsung 3D TV, but I never use the 3D effect for serious driving because it kills the fps.

Wipe out had 3D before GT5 do, actually 3D is pretty accessible on PC if you have the graphic card, it really doesn't add much.
 
@sk0pe : this thread is meant to discuss Kaz's talk at DICE, not your over exuberant fanboyism, calm down
 
Mimesis in it's true Platonic sense is really about the imitation of nature. Turing himself touched on this when disserting about the attributes of a perfect Artificially Intelligent entity.

KY isn't alone in trying to make perfect AI, it's been the target of game designers for many years.

My advice is not to get to attached to the hyperbole that inevitably surrounds the launch of products that cost a lot to develop.

Here's how I think the conversation went at Sony:

KY: It's called Mimesis. It's going to be great.

Sony Exec: Um, yeah. How's the racing game going?

KY: It's my vision for a Utopian synergy between the microchip and the natural forces of
nature...

Sony Exec: But there's still racing, right?

KY: ...that immerses the player in a believable universe where every action has a consequence and those consequences change the game world permanently.

Sony Exec: (Slowly) Uh-huh. And, er, how many cars?

KY: Ten thousand. All Skylines.
 
I have GOT to get a 3D television, so that the excruciating AI starts to drive like real people, and the bad PS2 car imports finally look as good as the Premium's :rolleyes:

No doubt it adds back the missing 400 A-Spec events from GT4, and puts an end to the grind once and for all, too :crazy:

Damn! I GOTS to get a 3D TV! 💡 :dopey:
 
Mimesis in it's true Platonic sense is really about the imitation of nature. Turing himself touched on this when disserting about the attributes of a perfect Artificially Intelligent entity.

KY isn't alone in trying to make perfect AI, it's been the target of game designers for many years.

My advice is not to get to attached to the hyperbole that inevitably surrounds the launch of products that cost a lot to develop.

Here's how I think the conversation went at Sony:

KY: It's called Mimesis. It's going to be great.

Sony Exec: Um, yeah. How's the racing game going?

KY: It's my vision for a Utopian synergy between the microchip and the natural forces of
nature...

Sony Exec: But there's still racing, right?

KY: ...that immerses the player in a believable universe where every action has a consequence and those consequences change the game world permanently.

Sony Exec: (Slowly) Uh-huh. And, er, how many cars?

KY: Ten thousand. All Skylines.

ROFL! Someone should make a vid of this conversation on xtranormal.com !
 
I have GOT to get a 3D television, so that the excruciating AI starts to drive like real people, and the bad PS2 car imports finally look as good as the Premium's :rolleyes:

No doubt it adds back the missing 400 A-Spec events from GT4, and puts an end to the grind once and for all, too :crazy:

Damn! I GOTS to get a 3D TV! 💡 :dopey:

Your a shift fanboy right? Your always talking about it.. Shift2 Car list so far is 145.
GT5 has a little over 200 premium models that are far more detailed than anything Shift2 is bringing to the table. So why get hung up on the standard cars ? Immature or troll ? I can't decide which.
Kaz has said himself the standards are just included for variety, would you rather they not be there ? Think about it 💡
It's not a case of if there wasn't 800 standards then they could have made more premium's LOL @ u here.. As i have seen you say over and over again.
They made as many premium car's as they could since the day they decided to use them in game. 6 years ago they didn't envision they could make the premium models they have today, i think he said it was 3 years into development they realised these model's could be used.
You already said it yourself, the standards are just ps2 imports so that obviously took up no time what-so-ever maybe a day or 2 ? Then a bit of time for the very few standards that received a little bit of a touch up.

You wanna get hung up on the A.I ? Iracing has absoulutely no A.I what-so-ever , would you rather that ? 👎
Use a car with the same weight (within 50kg) , and the same horsepower or less. Don't floor it from the start, let a few pass you so your at the back of the grid and go go go! You will find it is actually a very fun challenge starting from the back of the grid with a comparable car or less.
Frankly GT5 is online capable now, make some friends and race them online.
Why on earth do you wanna race against the computer all day, when there is real competition to race ? Will it be too hard for you then?
It easy to bag the slow A.I but your not forced to race them, it's not like GT's A.I has ever been stunning, so it's not like they dropped a feature here.

And son, when you have played on 3D tv the last thing your worried about is how the A.I is.. You can hotlap with or without the A.I or race a friend or two.
Heck, isn't that what this site is about fundamentally? Meeting people with the same interest's and having a debate and a race against each other, regardless of your skill level. But instead you come here to whine about how the computer isn't going fast enough for you, well i got new's for ya sunshine there is PLENTY of people here who will go fast enough for ya ! Check and mate.

Give me an Amen LOL...

JJ72-it's nothing special.

the local sony pro shop has it, my friend also has a samsung 3D TV, but I never use the 3D effect for serious driving because it kills the fps.

If you knew anything about the 3D technology used then you would realise you have to adjust the tv's and In-game settings which controls the amount of depth you see and many other things.
All of which is personal taste, every person views 3D slightly different so the settings they had on the tv would be different than if your were at a mate's mucking around with it properly.
 
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See this is the whole problem for me. KY has this epic vision of what he want's to create. It's a fusion of all sorts of different ideas based around a computer racing game. The problem is it just doesn't work. Technologically it's not possible or he is incapable of getting his vision to work. And what has resulted with GT5 is a bit of a mess. I really wish he and they had just concentrated on making the greatest racing game of all time.

I think it's fantastic that he has dreams and a vision of the utopia he wants to create but when those dreams and that vision gets in the way of the product then I can't help think he's doing all of this for his own needs rather than the needs of the paying customers. What percentage of the paying customers who bought GT5 are interested in, “It would make me happy to see a game that really makes you think about how a person should live and how they should come to terms with death,”. It just seems that he has so many thoughts and ideas in his head that he struggles to bring them together into a coherent, focussed direction. After reading what he said in this speech I fully understand why GT5 turned out like it did. Should have just concentrated on making a kick ass racing game KY.

+1 from me. I know you posted this a few days ago, but still....

/thread
 
+1 from me. I know you posted this a few days ago, but still....

/thread

I don't know why people insist on saying /thread... But anyway I agree. I struggle to understand how KY though he could possibly convey these ideas through a racing game. Maybe he should write a book or something, because his crazy vision prevented GT5 from being the best game ever.

I have nothing against his view on life or death or whatever, but they are taken completely out of context. If he wants to go down that path, he should let someone else take charge of the GT franchise before it gets any further off track
 
I don't know why people insist on saying /thread... But anyway I agree. I struggle to understand how KY though he could possibly convey these ideas through a racing game. Maybe he should write a book or something, because his crazy vision prevented GT5 from being the best game ever.

I have nothing against his view on life or death or whatever, but they are taken completely out of context. If he wants to go down that path, he should let someone else take charge of the GT franchise before it gets any further off track

Oh boy, way to take it out of context yourself. He is talking about someday he want's or think's someone else should making a game about " I think it's about time people should have a game where they are shown how they should live and die "

Watch this Interview if you don't believe me, it's 24minutes long and the question your looking for is at 22.00min, so fast forward to there if your not interested in the whole interview.
http://www.crunchgear.com/2010/01/12/interview-kazunori-yamauchi-creator-of-gran-turismo/

He never mention's that in GT5 he wants to show you how you should live and die lol...jesus some people...
 
I am aware of that... I'm saying he seems to be distracted by other things rather than focusing on making a racing game. Obviously he is not trying to convey life and death through GT5, I just think he needs to take a step back and either make the game or pursue something else...
 
I am aware of that... I'm saying he seems to be distracted by other things rather than focusing on making a racing game. Obviously he is not trying to convey life and death through GT5, I just think he needs to take a step back and either make the game or pursue something else...

Take a step back yourself and read your post ! Everyone is distracted by other things, no one think's about one sole thing in their life. Are you that narrow minded as to think GT5 is the only thing someone who thinks very philosophically as he does, is the one sole thing that runs through his mind ?
Wow.

Im pretty sure GT5 is one of the main focus's in his life right now though, as evidenced by this short video.
 
Take a step back yourself and read your post ! Everyone is distracted by other things, no one think's about one sole thing in their life. Are you that narrow minded as to think GT5 is the only thing someone who thinks very philosophically as he does, is the one sole thing that runs through his mind ?
Wow.

Relax, I'm not trying to start an argument. I'm just stating my opinion, there's no need to take it personally.

I think he tried to do too much with GT5 instead of focusing on what makes the GT series great, simple as that
 
I think he tried to do too much with GT5 instead of focusing on what makes the GT series great, simple as that

Saying it like that i can respectfully disagree with you on.


I'm saying he seems to be distracted by other things rather than focusing on making a racing game.
Saying that is another matter in itself. I don't take it personally i assure you, but if i read a ridiculous comment like that, i am gonna point out the flawed logic in it every time.

You see ? :D
 
3D is doomed to failure, nobody liked the glasses the first time around.

I'll wait for holographic projectors, we need your help O B 1.
 
I have GOT to get a 3D television, so that the excruciating AI starts to drive like real people, and the bad PS2 car imports finally look as good as the Premium's :rolleyes:

No doubt it adds back the missing 400 A-Spec events from GT4, and puts an end to the grind once and for all, too :crazy:

Damn! I GOTS to get a 3D TV! 💡 :dopey:

As much as i hate this " +1 " stuff... i just have no choice this time. +1 man

3D, 4D, 5D... whatever. If there's nothing to do in a game, the nothing will save it. Some fanboys will say that GT5 have tons of content, yes, maybe. But that content are not balanced at all, 1k cars (for some that's just ~200 cars) and no races to use those. Also existing races has zero replay value, because dumb AI and no random cars reward.
GT5 is all about graphics (even tho it's failed at some points, like shadows) and online races.
Maybe it's a good racing game, but as a GT it's a failure in my opinion.
I won't say for others, but if previous games were something like that... i wouldn't bought a GT5. Still have a hope, that GT6 will be a proper GT tho... if not, i won't buy GT7.


As for Kaz's interview... He said so many stuff before GT5 as well. 6 months for a premium car my...
So yeah, good read for the "lulz".
 
I mean, think about it.
A game that gives you:
(list of goodies)
I have thought about it. A Gran Turismo that offered your list of goodies would be an awesome game. However, I have to say that I'm very pleased with the existing physics of GT5 now. Collisions seem very close to what I'd see in real life. Physics feel very similar to my PC sims. Sound is very nice. The supposedly dumb, slow A.I., other than the fact that they slow down too much in turns, is good for me. In fact, I have a feeling that half the complaints people have about GT5 would still be there, even if the game was close to perfect.

Why? If a game contains all the good stuff, does it matter who it was made by?
Because. In spite of everyone whining about how Kaz killed GT5, something keeps bringing millions of us back to playing it, and more buying it. Even when a supposedly better game is out there already.

It's that something special that has sold about 60 million Gran Turismo games. That has millions of us continuing to play what is supposedly the worst racer ever made. It just doesn't exist in other games, not one. It's that special something that will keep me a GT fan till I die, most likely.
 
What would you rather have..? ONE really good car to drive around a game that 'mimesis's' GT racing to the ultimate degree, or 1000 cars to 'drive' around in a game that can't race to save its own life?

And looking to online (as banjaxed as that is, also!) as a 'fix' for AI that is worse than just about ANY racing game made today (including Mario Kart!) is just giving up, man... :crazy:

If other racing games can manage to program AI that is a challenge, and a game that responds to YOU (upgrade your car, the AI upgrade, too, bash them and they bash back etc.), what part of 'mimesis' does Kaz not get?

Thanks for the 'Shift fanboy' flame, too. Shows us EXACTLY how little thought you give to the whole idea of a racing game. You can only use less than 10% of the included GT5 game and still maintain that smug note. Race online, with friends ONLY. Me, I expect a COMPLETE game for my money.
 
However, I don't really see what Kaz adds to this game, apart from a love for cars. Reading stuff like this, I'm inclined to think that GT1 was a lucky hit and he's actually a rather mediocre game developer.
60 million Gran Turismo games sold say you're wrong. Even if you think GT5 is a waste of a Blu-ray, there are four-plus predecessors which sold around 50 million.

Kaz brings to Gran Turismo that special essence which keeps you posting here, keeps us racing in it,and make other game developers copy it.

GT has always consisted of mostly racing, if PD are going to largely ignore the racing because its not the main aspect of the game then they need to be more inventive with events/career mode, and not put the emphasis on racing.:sick:
Some of us are evidently playing another game. I'm racing, single player offline. ;) Well, when I'm playing it.

TL;DR version: I guess my GT5 is just more fun than your guys' GT5. Oh well.

For the past week, I've been caught up in a programming project for the Arturia Origin synthesizer. It seems these guys have whiners on their boards too. The Origin has been out for three years or so, and has been promised through this time to be given templates of some vintage synthesizers. These templates essentially turn the Origin into these synthesizers. Unfortunately, the company has been slow to release these templates, and so far have only produced two, the Minimoog and Jupiter 8. Thus, the board has become rather grouchy lately, and some have even threatened to sell their Origins out of frustration.

But the thing is, the Origin is a modular synthesizer, and the parts to make these synths exist in the Origin to start with. So you don't need these templates, they just make things convenient. I tried to point this out to the posters at the boards, but they weren't too impressed with me. I can sort of understand, because these digital synths have turned keyboard players into push button addicts, used to having a ton of sounds available at the press of a button. Making your own synths takes time and is rather tedious. I do wonder though what they see in the patches in the machine already that they're using to make music, because a lot of them are rather lame sounding. I actually like this factor, because it encourages me to create my own sounds, and it makes my Origin unique.

So anyway, one of the admins suggested he see if Arturia might make some template-like synths for us. That made the boards happy and grouching ceased for the most part. I offered to roll some of my own, and this made me instant friends with a few people. I'm making "template" patches resembling to my estimation a number of vintage synths Arturia doesn't even have modeled. But my patches sound very similar to the sounds from albums these synths are featured on, so I'm confident most of the folk there will appreciate them, and fall back in love with their Origins.

What does this have to do with GT5? Well, my experience isn't much like you guyses, much like my time spent with my Origin is much cooler than theirs.

Yes, I've complained along with everyone else that the the XP system is weird and doesn't work with GT5. Making a whole separate B-Spec section of the game is okay and all, but not if the A-Spec section is just as tiny, and lacking many of the tracks the team made. Plus the online playground doesn't exist yet. The graphics overall aren't as good as Prologue's. We can't tune our cars much more than we could in Prologue. We can't adjust gear ratios. There are zero brake upgrades. The paint shop doesn't even have any freaking paint of its own! We have to steal colors from other cars! Yadda yadda, you all obviously have your fave peeves.

But...

I can't wait to get back to it. I was going to race tonight, but my idiot gubmint job is trying to kill me, so I resorted to shooting at Arab militants in Desert Combat instead to keep awake till bedtime. It was fun, but I really wanted to either race, or polish off these synthesizer patches.

And I don't want to race in other games. I couldn't care less about Shifty 2, or whatever Simbin is cooking up. I'm as excited about Forza 4 as I am about the third installment, and... well, my 360 Leet has been disassembled for more than a year. My PC sims are collecting dust.

The reason is that nothing is as cool, or suave, or delectable as GT5. And I've been racing offline. I have no big problems with the bots, because I haven't seen a racing game with astounding, incredulous, "You have to SEE THIS in action!" bots. The only game I can think of with better bots is in Toca, and that's because they're bland, boring, polite little rail riders, which will create amusing pileups as they plow mindlessly into wrecks. Wii. Every game as A.I. which falls down somewhere, and with GT5, it's the braking through turns problem. But I've had WAY more headaches with online racing and racers, so thank you but no thank you.

If there was an equivalent racer out there, I'd be playing it. When I'm not hunched over my synthesizers. But there's not. And even those that are have copied Gran Turismo to one extent or another to start with. Forza whole hog. And if there was, this board would have emptied a long time ago, and I'd sure be enjoying the lack of noise, believe me.

Evidently, some Japanese yahoo, in spite of any opinion to the contrary, has a touch with this racer which is unique in the racing game world. I mean, seriously, when people threaten to dump it and leave GT Planet, for like... months, and they're still here, that says something. :lol:
 
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