Yet Another Attempt at the Tuning Industry

[speed junkie]

I know there are some members here that would be directly affected if these new laws were to be passed. A prelude to what is likely to become of our beloved automotive world? I hope not. As far as I can remember, we had rights. At least here in the US

Modified Car Armagedon

 

[Racedude]

The link doesn't work.

 

[hawkeye122]

Lets ban modifying cars, since it contributes to:

Poverty
Death
Obesity
Fiscal policy
Education
Understaffed Police and Fire departments
Afghanistan
Syria
Julian Assange
Drugs
Theft
Taxes on medal winners
Illegal Immigration


Oh wait, it doesnt. Those are things that ought to be solved before they get down to telling us how we can and cant modify cars.

 

[speed junkie]

Link Fixed!

 

[MSTER232]

I know there are some members here that would be directly affected if these new laws were to be passed. A prelude to what is likely to become of our beloved automotive world? I hope not. As far as I can remember, we had rights. At least here in the US

Modified Car Armagedon

This is the biggest piece of BS I've heard all day. What's a good explanation for making car modification illegal? The world has bigger problems to worry about than checking if every car for aftermarket parts. What's worse is that not even aftermarket rims are allowed if this rule gets passed on, I mean, seriously? If anything it's going to increase the economy of the car since alloy wheels are lighter than normal ones.

My conclusion is that whoever thought up this 🤬 is either drunk, or has been playing too much GT5 where tuning to your car isn't allowed.

 

[homeforsummer]

Much as it's something I wholeheartedly disagree with, I can't see how the law would be passed in the UK. It would immediately render illegal cars on tens of thousands of driveways across the country, and destroy a tuning industry that contributes millions of pounds to the economy. Would be commercial and political suicide.

 

[niky]

Like CARB?

They have to provide an out, simply because there is little difference between aftermarket and stock in some areas, and clear superiority for aftermarket, in others.

Very hard to justify banning "loud" exhausts on grocery getters when even louder ones are fitted to exotics as standard... or to ban aftermarket wheels, when many aftermarket wheel manufacturers are subcontracted wheel suppliers for OEMs.

The way the UK does it is most sensible. Let the car pass or fail registration on its own merit... or allow exemptions for products that pass environmental impact testing or industry standards like CARB or JASMA.

 

[CinnamonOD]

They have more important things to solve before they do that

Will this affect racing teams from the UK?

 

[CSLACR]

I could see them passing it.
Governments don't give a damn about who their choices affect, and they're too stupid to realize the consequences of their actions.
This is why every major empire must fall at some point, and always does. Have no fear though, the US is first in line to collapse.

The bigger picture, over the loss of jobs for the tuning industry, etc, is the loss of ability to get to work, god forbid you have done anything to your car.
At least in the US, millions of jobs would suddenly be lost for lack of transportation.

We know these cars don't hurt anything, but they irritate old people. The elderly rule the world, and they're generally ignorant of anyone's needs or wants, only their own desires.
I can only wish you guys luck...

 

[daan]

It seems to me that this is knee jerk reaction.

The way I read it, for the UK at least (and, OP, I fail to see how EU legislation will affect anything in the US...) that a car older than 3 years needs to pass an MOT to say it is roadworthy. This new legislation looks like it means that any modified car with have to take an IVA (Individual Vehicle Assestment) test at a higher cost, and that seems fair enough to me. If you've modified your car, it'd be good to know (for all parties) that you've done it correctly and safely.

It will not make modified cars illegal.

 

[Ibonibo]

As I understand it, it outlaws mostly "dangerous" modifiacations (cutting springs,...).

UK and most of the older EU countries have annual (or bi-) test to check the car on the safety (roadworthiness) like the TUV, Mot, and what they are called in all the countries.

Modifications will still be allowed but need either and E mark (EU wide homologation) or a TUV paper or something like that.

It will ban mods like this from the road

which is probably not a bad thing.

Also on the positive side, a car registered in the EU must be homolgated by an other EU country. It will make buying cars within the EU much simpler.

Also, this was discussed before on other forums, and Germany isn't to fond of this as they have a better national requirements and lots of countries do.
(look who proposed this, the guy comes from a country where those test don't exist).
In all honesty, it does seem very likable that this will not pass, or not without changes and then for most of the EU, nothing will change, maybe will even simplify it.

 

[Keef]

(and, OP, I fail to see how EU legislation will affect anything in the US...)

If you haven't noticed, nations around the world have steadily eroded their own sovereignty in favor of multinational organizations and that has contributed to the entire world becoming steadily more Orwellian as a whole. That fact is that European decision do affect us, and vice versa, and that's a terrible thing considering many Europeans are virtually powerless to stop their governments from making decisions without permission.

One good thing about this legislation would be that the scooter scene would become even bigger (the Honda Ruckus tuning scene is hilariously awesome) and I'd bet go kart building, modification, and racing would go through the roof.

 

[McLaren]

It seems to me that this is knee jerk reaction.

The way I read it, for the UK at least (and, OP, I fail to see how EU legislation will affect anything in the US...) that a car older than 3 years needs to pass an MOT to say it is roadworthy. This new legislation looks like it means that any modified car with have to take an IVA (Individual Vehicle Assestment) test at a higher cost, and that seems fair enough to me. If you've modified your car, it'd be good to know (for all parties) that you've done it correctly and safely.

It will not make modified cars illegal.

So, we can just chalk this up as another instance of Generation Y/Z making fuss over something without actually reading the details behind it.

 

[Famine]

Unfortunately, the legislation is hideously vague - as is the Department of Transport's wording of its implementation of it.

Effectively what could happen is that all non-factory standard cars - anything with non-OE (pattern) parts used in repairs even - will be illegal to use on the public road if the "proposal" passes its second reading in 5 weeks' time. It's not likely to be quite that dumb, but it's not especially likely to be no meaningful change either.

 

[Luminis]

It sounds more like they want to implement something like TÜV in other European countries. After installing an aftermarket part into your car, you'll have to get it registered to prove the car's roadworthines. Or rather, to prove that it's not negatively affected by whatever modification you've done to your car.

It'll probably suck for those who haven't had to deal with such stuff yet, but not like it's meant to ban every car with aftermarket rims (for example) from public roads. Really, while I know that politicians are, at times, horribly dumb, I can't see them doing something that moronic.

It'd be like banning tobacco. They don't want you to stop smoking, they just want you to pay taxes for doing so...

 

[Famine]

It's a little less clear than even that.

The DfT's phrasing suggests that any part "not type-approved" (this effectively means "made by the original manufacturer for this purpose and application") for your car cannot be fitted without the vehicle then passing a (n expensive) secondary test. This includes aftermarket wheels (even of the same size as OE type-approved ones), tyres, suspension components and braking components (no more buying a better, identical brake disc, or a cheaper pattern part).

So if I replace my 255mm x 7mm brake discs with identical ones from a secondary manufacturer (with the same hub dimensions) because they have been specifically made for my car, I have to submit my car for an additional (and expensive) safety test. Worse still, because I've actually already done this (as a suit of brake upgrades) and halved my stopping distance, my car becomes illegal to use on the road unless I either submit my car the the additional test or just buy the manufacturer's original parts to make my car worse and more dangerous than it is now.

Same thing with my stainless exhaust - the OE part lasts about a year before it corrodes and has to be replaced. The stainless exhaust that sits in the same channel, following the same route and not posing any danger to anyone, has lasted 6 and is still in the same condition as it went on. The DfT's interpretation would make my exhaust illegal.

 

[Luminis]

Okay, that does sound a fair bit more annoying than anything you'd ccome across around here... I assume I just didn't get everything when I skimmed over the article. My apologies.

Anyways, I still can't see such a law getting passed. If it does... I couldn't even find the words to describe how utterly dumb that would be.

 

[Ibonibo]

^ The article is not very good written.

Overfly, read the directive.

It's more in line with Luminis first post. It will need a paper saying it is fit for your car and has been tested, thus increasing the price for the parts (TUV parts are always expensiver than a non Tuv counterpart)

Same goes for E branded aftermarket parts. Those don't even need to be passed or homologated as they have a E norm.

It will stop people from putting ebay brakes on their car that are made from plastic,...

The UK will suffer, that's for sure, they are allowed a lot more mods than we can dream of (corsa with 2 engines, couch cars,....)

The other part is the annual or bi annual test, which most countries from the old Europe already have.

 

[Famine]

Overfly, read the directive.

It's still a proposal, rather than a directive, but it's the member states' interpretations that are the problem. Here's the DfT's:

"The Commission proposes to introduce a definition for a roadworthiness test that components of the vehicle must comply with characteristics at the time of first registration. This may prevent most modifications to vehicles without further approval of the vehicle. (this will apply to many components and to all types of vehicle)"

And here's part of the proposal:

Before a vehicle is allowed to be put on the market, it has to fulfil all the relevant type or individual approval requirements guaranteeing an optimal level of safety and environmental standards. Every Member State has the obligation to register for the first time any vehicle that got the European type-approval on the basis of the “Certificate of Conformity” issued by the vehicle manufacturer.

"Type approval" is a specific test where standard, manufacturer examples of models are assessed under a number of safety criteria. Modifying the car changes its type approval:

The goal of roadworthiness testing is to check the functionality of safety components, the environmental performance and the compliance of a vehicle with its approval.

A modified car would not comply with its type approval.

It doesn't really matter what branding any part has on it - it could be cheaper pattern parts from eBay/EuroPart, upgraded but OE dimension parts from a "tuner" company or even manufacturer-origin upgrades from a different model - if it's not originally type approved on that car, fitting it renders the car unroadworthy because it no longer complies with its original type approval.

 

[Ibonibo]

So a manufactorer would need to crashtest, homologate every possible combination of the back catalogue of options??

That would give 1000's of combinations for one single car, for 2 years after it gets facelifted?

As the TUv is mentionned a lot, and Germany is known for good systems, I think they will go for the TUV way.

Meaning you want to sell aftermarket parts: you need to test them which will be costely. You pass the tests, your products get a serial Tuv number, or papers.

You as car owner want that piece on your car, you need to pass the Mot, (normally immediatly) after you installed it, to look if it is not a cheap reproduction, or a non-certifiate product, looks for good install, fitement.

It gets written on your pink slip and everything legal. Lot of hassle and cost involved...

 

[Famine]

So a manufactorer would need to crashtest, homologate every possible combination of the back catalogue of options??

It doesn't need to be crashtested.

Parts need to be tested to appropriate technical standards by an approved independent body, and then it needs to be Type Approved for that car (which effectively means the manufacturer must provide a certificate of conformity for the part in any application it sells the part to the end user). If you cannot buy that car from the manufacturer with that bit on it, it's not Type Approved for that car.

Third party companies - unless they are the original supplier of a given part (Brembo brakes, for example) - will not be able to provide the certificate of conformity for any part and it will not be type approved. This applies to any third party producer, whether it's upgrades or cheaper pattern parts, even if identical in size and manufacturer tested to the same standards. If a non-type-approved part is fitted to a car it must pass an individual type approval test (at the expense of the car's owner) or it will be illegal to fit and use on the public road.

And then, when the rolling 30 year "historic car" classification hits, your car must be factory in appearance too:

"The Commission proposes to change the definition of an Historic Vehicle that may be exempt from periodic testing. This may allow vehicles older than 30 years to be exempt from testing providing the vehicle has been maintained in its original condition, including its appearance."

 

[Ibonibo]

ok you intrigued me too much, gonna read the whole 25 pages...

 

[Nessy]

It doesn't really matter what branding any part has on it - it could be cheaper pattern parts from eBay/EuroPart, upgraded but OE dimension parts from a "tuner" company or even manufacturer-origin upgrades from a different model - if it's not originally type approved on that car, fitting it renders the car unroadworthy because it no longer complies with its original type approval.

Forgive me for being a bit slow (as usual), but does that mean: let's hypothetically say i purchased a Mercedes from the dealership, and then decided to purchase 'AMG' tuning parts from the manufacturers tuning arm (a few months down the line), to fit on the same model equivalent, would i not be able to so? Same goes for Fiat/Abarth etc (though i'm not sure they do upgrades, probably just stand alone models).

[EDIT]

Doesn't matter, just read the above post, kind of answers my question.

 

[Ibonibo]

I just passed this on the historic cars:

Vehicles of historic interest are supposed to conserve heritage of the époque they
have been built and considered to be hardly used on public roads, it should be left to
Member States to extend the period of periodic roadworthiness testing for such
vehicles. It should also be for Member States to regulate roadworthiness testing of
other types of specialised vehicles.

I will read the rest, but i will elaborate later, but Germany already said (among others) that this is BS. Will try to find an article

Ok to clarify Famine, what is Dft?

Because I just read the whole thing and nowhere in the article is talked about banning aftermarket parts. It doesn't even talk about modified cars at all. It's all about roadworthiness test for the car, harmonize those across the EU. MOT TUV CT, TC,... all the same, for most countries nothing will change.

Things will be made easier to buy cars across europe, and as they will collect data (negative aspect) the milage can be traced back (+ point).

And as said, a lot of countries are against this as they have already a good system in place and this will cost those countries money for a probably less strict system.

vehicle of historic interest’ means any vehicle which fulfils all the following
conditions :
– It was manufactured at least 30 years ago,
– It is maintained by use of replacement parts which reproduce the historic
components of the vehicle;
– It has not sustained any change in the technical characteristics of its main
components such as engine, brakes, steering or suspension and
– It has not been changed in its appearance;

This is in the definition section of the article, so that the old woman understands it too and has no meaning at all, it can still be a historic car with 20 years for your country with modified parts.

From your post on page 1

EC

Before a vehicle is allowed to be put on the market, it has to fulfil all the relevant type or individual approval requirements guaranteeing an optimal level of safety and environmental standards. Every Member State has the obligation to register for the first time any vehicle that got the European type-approval on the basis of the “Certificate of Conformity” issued by the vehicle manufacturer.

"Type approval" is a specific test where standard, manufacturer examples of models are assessed under a number of safety criteria. Modifying the car changes its type approval:

You know this is in the introduction
Under

EXPLANATORY MEMORANDUM
1. CONTEXT OF THE PROPOSAL
• Grounds for and objectives of the proposal
• General context
Before a...

And is what is already in place. It has nothing to do with the car owner or what might be called a "single title homologation" for a car owner with a strongly modified car.

EC

The goal of roadworthiness testing is to check the functionality of safety components, the environmental performance and the compliance of a vehicle with its approval.
A modified car would not comply with its type approval.

It doesn't really matter what branding any part has on it - it could be cheaper pattern parts from eBay/EuroPart, upgraded but OE dimension parts from a "tuner" company or even manufacturer-origin upgrades from a different model - if it's not originally type approved on that car, fitting it renders the car unroadworthy because it no longer complies with its original type approval.

This is already the same situation as in a lot of countries. I don't know if you need to pass the Mot if you modified something, but would be basicly that, you pass Mot, if the tester doesn't find a problem in roadworthiness, that you get your papers and you're good for an other year

Where is that underlined line in the quote?