You Can Buy Gran Turismo's Insane TVR Cerbera Speed 12 When it Heads to Auction in May

  • Thread starter Famine
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I'd worry about damaging the engine anyway. And I agree about price. The Helical TR cost around 1 mill new I think? Yes. Not the same but maybe a kind of benchmark?

I know of 3 bodies. And rollcage present in all of them :).

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The motorshow version which was like the smooth road car but had vents in the bonnet. I don't know if this car became the road car or one of the race cars. The bonnet at least has disappeared somewhere.

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Then there's the smooth road car at Goodwood FoS 2000. I've always preferred this one. Although it does look better with the wing. This was the body that was for sale a few years ago maybe 2018? Below is what it looked like in 2018 although the roof is off the racer so needs surgery.

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Of course the 3rd body is what it has now so I won't post pics of that. But TVR left quite alot of stuff outside the factory after use. The 7/12 body sat outside for years.

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I wonder if the original 7/12 body would fit over the current cars chassis, I definitely much prefer that one over the Cerbera model. :cool:

Still it's a pretty cool car but at most I can see it maybe getting around $900k, as mentioned it doesn't really have any real pedigree outside of being in a few racing games and moderate success during racing but nothing special. I can definitely understand the appeal of it though.
 
TVR-Cerbera-Speed-12-1.jpg
tvr-speed-12-2.jpg

I prefer the original more clean design Cerbera Speed 12

Rocket in straights a whale in corners, those are the things i most remember from GT about this car
 
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You could compare the TVR more to something like a Lister Storm, the road going Version never sold over half a million i think.
If I recall, I think only 4 Lister Storms were built or sold before production ended (Priced at £220,000 last I checked). Funny thing is even with its less then steller sales, The Storm is yet another car that's mostly associated with winning so it would be yet another exacerbation to the Speed 12's already troubled issues with its appeal.

So what we can establish so far is that when it comes to the Cerbera Speed 12 is that:

  • It didn't sell at all (Something at least the Lister Storm managed, albeit barely)
  • It didn't really have much success at the track (Something both the Mclaren and Lister manage far more of)
  • It vanished into obscurity upon its cancellation (Something not even Gran Turismo or Forza could salvage)

So it comes down to a tough question the folks at the Silverstone auction (Both the folks selling this car AND the people buying) really need to take a hard look at themselves: What compelling reason is there for anyone to spend at best seven figures if at all for a car that frankly only THE most hardcore car nerds even know about? If you want big power, pretty sure there's gonna be plenty of cars that do that just fine from damn near all over the world. You want a V12? Pretty sure both the Mclaren F1 and Lister Storm have you covered there too in both German and British Varieties (and there's Lamborghini, Ferrari and Maserati if you like yours abit more Italian as well). If you want something British, Have you considered Jaguar? Aston Martin? The aforementioned Mclaren? Maybe you've heard of them. Frankly, there's not really anything unique I can see that it would offer unless you count owning a "Road Car" from the late 90s/early 2000s where you have to go through a very tedious and laborious process just to even get the thing fired up when seemingly everything else from the same era is nowhere near as complicated, To which given how hardcore some people are about the "Good ol' days" despite many even existing during said period, maybe some people are into that. And even then, how many of them are that have that much to spend? How many Trevor Fans are there with pockets that huge?
 
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I think a lot of people in this thread are missing the point about this car. Sure, the McLaren F1 does the driving/motorsport part better, but the Speed 12 is the much more frightening car.

It’s engine is literally Frankensteined together, it’s not pretty neither is it elegant like a lot of other British cars are. It just wants to kill you, plain and simple. That’s why people love it.
 
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lol implying that the Hagery values have anything to do with anything beyond how much more money it nets PD every time the prices are arbitrarily raised.
 
If I recall, I think only 4 Lister Storms were built or sold before production ended (Priced at £220,000 last I checked). Funny thing is even with its less then steller sales, The Storm is yet another car that's mostly associated with winning so it would be yet another exacerbation to the Speed 12's already troubled issues with its appeal.

So what we can establish so far is that when it comes to the Cerbera Speed 12 is that:

  • It didn't sell at all (Something at least the Lister Storm managed, albeit barely)
  • It didn't really have much success at the track (Something both the Mclaren and Lister manage far more of)
  • It vanished into obscurity upon its cancellation (Something not even Gran Turismo or Forza could salvage)

So it comes down to a tough question the folks at the Silverstone auction (Both the folks selling this car AND the people buying) really need to take a hard look at themselves: What compelling reason is there for anyone to spend at best seven figures if at all for a car that frankly only THE most hardcore car nerds even know about? If you want big power, pretty sure there's gonna be plenty of cars that do that just fine from damn near all over the world. You want a V12? Pretty sure both the Mclaren F1 and Lister Storm have you covered there too in both German and British Varieties (and there's Lamborghini, Ferrari and Maserati if you like yours abit more Italian as well). If you want something British, Have you considered Jaguar? Aston Martin? The aforementioned Mclaren? Maybe you've heard of them. Frankly, there's not really anything unique I can see that it would offer unless you count owning a "Road Car" from the late 90s/early 2000s where you have to go through a very tedious and laborious process just to even get the thing fired up when seemingly everything else from the same era is nowhere near as complicated, To which given how hardcore some people are about the "Good ol' days" despite many even existing during said period, maybe some people are into that. And even then, how many of them are that have that much to spend? How many Trevor Fans are there with pockets that huge?
That’s the thing, there sure are people who would like to own this car just because of its story being cancelled for being too overpowered and dangerous, but how big is the overlap of people who absolutely wanting to own this car and who have a big amount of money to spend on it. And there’s also then the two factors that it never got sold before and that there’s also a lot of other cars that you could buy for the money. Because it is at the end barely driveable, not that a lot of these collectors cars get usually moved a lot, but it means that this car has this feeling attached to it that it isn’t finished or something like this. It hasn’t gone into production, but isn’t a real prototype either or concept car. And there’s the question then: Who is willing to spend like 7 digits on a car that is probably killing you driving it, or just put it in a garage for display, when it hasn’t put some really noticeable remark in automotive history, and therefore also it’s resell-value can’t be calculated?
As another example you have the Shelby Cobra Super Snake, a car were only one of two survived and is also totally overpowered, a killer car. This achieved around 5 million on its latest auction, but its a extremely legendary model from a world famous brand that played a big roll in automotive history as for road cars and Motorsport. So if this achieved (just) around 5 mill, there’s no way I would say that the TVR comes anywhere near this price tag.

But like it’s always with these auctions: anything can happen, it’s hard to predict the outcome, especially on a car like this that never got sold before. I’m curious how it will turn out after all this discussion.

And yes you are right, there were only for 4 Lister Storms build for the road-going version, but I think the race-versions achieved the higher outcomes in auctions.

I think a lot of people in this thread are missing the point about this car. Sure, the McLaren F1 does the driving/motorsport part better, but the Speed 12 is the much more frightening car.

It’s engine is literally Frankensteined together, it’s not pretty neither is it elegant like a lot of other British cars are. It just wants to kill you, plain and simple. That’s why people love it.
Yeah this also has its attraction to it, but I don’t think that’s not enough for people to spend a lot of money (like millions) on it, most collectors don’t work that way I think. Obscurity alone isn’t enough for most people to spend this much money on it, and when there’s not so many willing to bid on it, the price won’t go that high.
lol implying that the Hagery values have anything to do with anything beyond how much more money it nets PD every time the prices are arbitrarily raised.
I don’t know about every car in the LCD, especially not modern cars, but for a lot of cars it seems pretty near to their real world values (except the ones who are capped by 20 million and normally are worth even more)
Like for the:

Jaguar D-Type
Toyota 2000 GT
Alfa Romeo TZ2
Aston Martin DB3S
Maserati A6 GCS Spyder
Alfa Romeo 8C 2900B
Shelby Cobra Daytona
Ferrari 250 GTO
Aston Martin DB5
Nissan Skyline Kenmeri
Porsche 550 Spyder
Maserati Merak
Mercedes Benz 300SL
Ferrari 288 GTO
etc.

They are calculated to their actual value (or at least their latest auction results), that’s why Hagertys is in their. If it weren’t, why have they also made a lot of cars then much cheaper in comparison to their price tags in GT Sport, like the D-Type, Miura, Alfa TZ2 and so on?
 
that’s why Hagertys is in their.
Polyphony Digital has integrated TAG Heuer’s Live Timing Technology into Gran Turismo Sport, providing unparalleled timing solutions within the racing experience.
Since 1997 Polyphone Digital has set the standard with the Gran Turismo series, combining hundreds of high-performance manufacture cars with some of the world’s best race circuits including Monza, Spa Francorchamps and of course the Nurburgring. It’s a game played by millions worldwide, and KW Automotive is hugely excited to be a part of the upcoming Gran Turismo 6 title!

Amazing how much utility those technical partnerships added to the game.


While the checks were clearing, at least.








Hagerty's is there because it is a plausible marketing cooperation that can generate free press release publication by bored automotive and gaming websites more or less every time there's a game update.





They are calculated to their actual value (or at least their latest auction results),
If it weren’t, why have they also made a lot of cars then much cheaper in comparison to their price tags in GT Sport, like the D-Type, Miura, Alfa TZ2 and so on?
There are only 12 TZ2s. Did one of those sell since GT7 came out for significantly more money than the car was "valued" at? There aren't that many more GT40s. How many of those have gone across the block? Again going to the most egregious example, the Miura is apparently "worth" almost a million dollars more than it was when the game launched; and much of its value would already be tied up in the fact that there's only one prototype chassis 702. As far as I know it's still owned by the same people who bought it when it was new and have owned it ever since. Where does the extra million dollars of valuation come from for that? How does the market value change for a car if no examples have tested the market?

To say nothing of the fact that they are trying to claim credibility when ascribing "market value" to infinite-quantity digital representations of real life objects whose value is correlated to their rarity, desirability and provenance; even if they weren't worth half as much when you try to sell them in the game.
 
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Amazing how much utility those technical partnerships added to the game.


While the checks were clearing, at least.








Hagerty's is there because it is a plausible marketing cooperation that can generate free press release publication by bored automotive and gaming websites more or less every time there's a game update.








To say nothing of the fact that they are trying to claim credibility when ascribing "market value" to infinite-quantity digital representations of real life objects whose value is correlated to their rarity, desirability and provenance; even if they weren't worth half as much when you try to sell them in the game.
What kind of an argument is this?
The game wants to simulate something that is present in the real world by implementing mechanics like these, but with its own tweaks because of its in-game economy.
Why does a Bugatti Chiron cost so much, there’s a unlimited amount of duplicates of this car you can buy, it just had to modeled once, so there’s no resources going into another digital duplicate if you buy one. They should set the price at 10,000 Cr, anything else is artificially creating a In-Game market just to sell MTX.
Why do some cars are so hard to handle, why do their tires wear out and the fuel tank get empty and I have to take pit stop while racing, there infinite amounts of digital fuel available.
You are questioning the whole concept behind video games, just in a very selective way.

The value of rare cars like the ones we discussed ain’t just estimated by their latest auction, sorry that was just a short answer from me, there’s some more to it.
The Giulia TZ2 for example got sold not even near the over 3 million you have to pay for it in GT7, I think it was about 1.5 or 2 million on its latest auction. But the specific car with its Chassis-Nr. you have in GT7 has a successful racing history and even seems to have the original livery on it. A interesting racing history, be it winning a lot of races, being driven by a famous driver or just have participated in a legendary race like Mille Miglia, Le Mans 24h etc. can give a lot of value to already expensive car and therefore create a big difference between the price tags of the same model.
For the Lamborghini Miura prototype I can’t find any results, but considering that a production vehicle already achieved over 4 mill $ and this is a prototype, something historically important to this already historically very important car, it is not far off that it’s worth what you have to pay for in GT7.
As for the GT40 Mk I, i can’t tell, it’s the road-going version, so the price seems a bit too high looking just at its latest auction results, but given that a race version already sold for over 11 mill $, it’s In-Game value also isn’t so far-fetched in my opinion. It’s a pretty rare car with a big racing history behind, even more famous now after the movie Ford Vs. Ferrari.
It’s sometimes unpredictable, the value and therefore auction results don’t rise in a straight line, last month a Ford Sierra RS500 Cosworth got sold for 670.000€, that’s a huge jump from its previous results.
But that’s what something like Hagertys is there for, to give a clue of the cars value and the auction results it could achieve, at least as far as I understand it.

To accuse PD and their partners of just making these partnerships to make money out of it, is pretty one-directional thinking imo.
Things can be more than one thing, it can serve as a financial interest and at the same time bring something to the game.
If someone doesn’t like this or that aspect, there’s always this notion that this all is just a fraud or something, the worst allegations come up, this is the exact opposite of being objective.
 
I think a lot of people in this thread are missing the point about this car. Sure, the McLaren F1 does the driving/motorsport part better, but the Speed 12 is the much more frightening car.

It’s engine is literally Frankensteined together, it’s not pretty neither is it elegant like a lot of other British cars are. It just wants to kill you, plain and simple. That’s why people love it.
And yet that's also why it ended up getting canned before anyone was allowed to buy it, effectively ending this car from ever actually obtaining notoriety & value like said F1.
 
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And yet that's also why it ended up getting canned before anyone was allowed to buy it, effectively ending this car from ever actually obtaining notoriety & value like said F1.


That is true, I wouldn’t underestimate rich car collectors though, some of them can have very eccentric tastes and like the more obscure stuff. We will see I suppose
 
It's gonna happen isn't it? This car is never gonna see the light of day again... :indiff::grumpy:
I think the guy who owns both built the 2nd to drive it more regularly. Aston V12 much easier to look after. Plus there's the Helical/TR Speed 12. Not quite as nice imo but again it's easier to use than the actual Speed 12. You still need some big balls though.
As another example you have the Shelby Cobra Super Snake, a car were only one of two survived and is also totally overpowered, a killer car. This achieved around 5 million on its latest auction, but its a extremely legendary model from a world famous brand that played a big roll in automotive history as for road cars and Motorsport. So if this achieved (just) around 5 mill, there’s no way I would say that the TVR comes anywhere near this price tag.
Some people think Shelby was a god and It was also in Shelby's personal collection. 2 were built but it was the only survivor. The 2nd was driven off a cliff into the pacific.

I don't think anyones thinking 5 mill? It's a hard one to judge though. Maybe 2 at the absolute highest (never know if you get a couple of bidders fighting) and that's only cos the helical/TR Speed 12 is for sale for 1.2 Mill. That is a new build Speed 12 built by the some of the TVR employee's who worked on the original. No idea if they've actually sold any. It has more power than the Speed 12 but it doesn't have that engine. Which imo is the main selling point of the OG Speed 12. But on the other hand it can also hurt the price because of it's uniqueness. All depends what the owner wants to do. Stick it in a museum (which is where it's been anyway, with the odd drive out) or drive it about, risking the engine.

Some pic's I took of the TR at Blenheim Palace back in 2016.

TR Speed 12 3.JPGTR Speed 12 4.JPG

I wonder if the original 7/12 body would fit over the current cars chassis, I definitely much prefer that one over the Cerbera model. :cool:
Need to find the body first as that picture of the 7/12 is quite old so who knows where that is now. I don't know how different the 7/12 Tuscan is to the Cerb underneath.
 
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