Your personal opinion on Simcade so far?

[GTxForza]

Dear GTPlanet forum users

Here is my personal opinion on this sub-genre of driving game, to me, it's great for those who are new to driving games that feature photo-realistic graphics (F1, Gran Turismo & Forza Motorsport series) so the players can get hang onto the handling model before they may go and transition to the proper hardcore sims like Assetto Corsa Competizione, iRacing, rFactor 2, Automobilista 2, Assetto Corsa & DiRT Rally 2.0.

Also, I reckon that Simcade is the console & simplified version of Sim Racing, as they make the handling model more forgiving in order to optimize both the controller pad and racing wheel easier, while hardcore Sim Racing's controller pad optimization is not that good, so their respective developers would rather focus on the racing wheel optimization instead as they tend to get the physics as accurate as possible to the real world.

Overall, I still like Simcades for the purpose of a nostalgic feel and taking a break from hardcore Sim Racing before I jump back into it.

P.S Comparing Sim Racing to Simcade is like comparing Tennis to Table Tennis.

 

[strela]

I'm not sure what a simcade is anymore. Is there even a thing that makes a simcade game different from a sim game or is it base only on personal feelings? You are even mentioning hardcore sims. Are there different sim categories too? Which game could be considered as the first sim? And could a game considered a sim in the past become a simcade with the latest standards? I'm asking because the sim community have different opinions on some games. Like Project CARS for example which some consider as a simcade. Maybe there is a light sim racing category too?

I'm a simple guy. I play games that I like no matter what, so a simple label can't make a difference in the joy I'm experiencing while playing. But than I'm not a hardcore sim racer so the whole sim thing is something my brain can't really understand.

 

[GTxForza]

I'm not sure what a simcade is anymore. Is there even a thing that makes a simcade game different from a sim game or is it base only on personal feelings? You are even mentioning hardcore sims. Are there different sim categories too? Which game could be considered as the first sim? And could a game considered a sim in the past become a simcade with the latest standards? I'm asking because the sim community have different opinions on some games. Like Project CARS for example which some consider as a simcade. Maybe there is a light sim racing category too?

I'm a simple guy. I play games that I like no matter what, so a simple label can't make a difference in the joy I'm experiencing while playing. But than I'm not a hardcore sim racer so the whole sim thing is something my brain can't really understand.

So here is my theory on how Project CARS ended up being Simcade? because to get the controller pad optimized and let me explain why the proper hardcore Sim Racing isn't good for controller optimization.

Say, when the player is playing Assetto Corsa Competizione on a PC with a controller pad, for example, they push the left analog stick to whichever direction, the steering wheel instantly all the way to maximum angle, which is not possible to do that to Sim racing wheel and the real car.

 

[PJTierney]

Simcade is a fuzzy, often derogatory term used when people think a game is “lesser” than another one.

Any game that attempts to simulate motorsport with real cars/tracks is a simulator in my opinion. Some intentionally go for a simplistic recreation, some go for a more realistic. No game is better than another just because of how serious/relaxed it approaches this aspect, only on how fun and meaningful it is to play, and that will differ depending on who you ask.

Racing is for everyone.

 

[Scaff]

Simcade is a fuzzy, often derogatory term used when people think a game is “lesser” than another one.

Any game that attempts to simulate motorsport with real cars/tracks is a simulator in my opinion. Some intentionally go for a simplistic recreation, some go for a more realistic. No game is better than another just because of how serious/relaxed it approaches this aspect, only on how fun and meaningful it is to play, and that will differ depending on who you ask.

Racing is for everyone.

This.

It's not a series of boxes that titles have to fit into, it's a spectrum and not just one that has a single category in it either.

As we talking about the accuracy of the physics simulation? If so which bit, the tyre model, suspension, aero, diff, etc. What about beyond physics and into the simulation of Motorsport, in that regard the F1 series, which doesn't have the most in-depth physics simulation, has one of the most in-depth simulations of the actual structure of F1 as a motorsport. In that regard, F1 22 is a better (Motorsport) simulator than RFactor2, but RFactor 2 is a better physics simulator than F1 22.

 

[ColinNZ]

I'm just glad there is so much variety in racing games these days. I'm actively playing GT7, ACC, MotoGP 21 and Dirt 4 at the moment, and am enjoying each for completely different reasons.

 

[MroczMR]

i still thing that viperconcept youtuber did nail perfectly meaning of arcade->simcade>sim genres. He made it as a axis going from arcade to sim. You just can't say one game is simcade and one is full sim since every game do represent different things better or worse. You can say ACC is the most realsitic sim, but collisions and damage physics are better in Wreckfest or Beam.ng so which one is more sim then? One with better driving model or the one with better damage system? We can go even deeper and some sims do better job on simulating tyres and other suspension. Need For Speed is also more realistic than Ridge Racer but less realistic then GRID. I can take a lot of examples why strict Arcade/Simcade/Sim categories doesn't work. I see it more like this:

EDIT: Oh. Every type of racing game is worth playing and trying. Realism or lack of it isn't advantage or disadvantage it is just design choice.

 

[csmirnoff]

View attachment 1171534

I kind of agree with the concept but there are some very weird (wrong) choices there. Grand Prix 4 or Richard Burns Rally less sim than F1 2020? Not a chance. BeamNG has worse graphics than RaceRoom or iRacing? Don't think so. I know it's about the concept, not the chart itself though... hehe.

 

[MrCrynox]

I just play any racing game that I think I will like. I'm happy playing simple games, I'm happy playing complicated games. The main thing for me is enjoyment not what imaginery category my game might sit within, why would I care about that ?

 

[MroczMR]

I kind of agree with the concept but there are some very weird (wrong) choices there. Grand Prix 4 or Richard Burns Rally less sim than F1 2020? Not a chance. BeamNG has worse graphics than RaceRoom or iRacing? Don't think so. I know it's about the concept, not the chart itself though... hehe.

This is Viperconcepts chart. Yes I would change some thing also. Like NFS Shift 2 is more realistic than Motorstorm . But the most important thing is concept.

 

[05XR8]

It’s just simulating racing.

In the real world, there are some racers that could probably set up a car, definitely in amatuer racing(solo time attacks, karting, entry level/grassroots circuit racing motorsports). As the tier raises, drivers communicate what they feel to the engineer. Many players can not tune a car. So, then, what’s the most players will achieve from playing any race simulator?

A simulator that allows players all the tools to tune a car may not be used. That player may still play the game as if it’s MarioKart.
A game like the first TOCA was excellent in giving the player a simulation of a race weekend and full season championship. The physics are horrible by today’s standards, but sitting in the cockpit, barely looking over the steering wheel with the white thumb & forefinger thrill of bumper to bumper racing, simulated the real BTCC racing very well.

If a game can come close to portraying the thrill of any king of motoracing, regardless if it has a slider for settings or needs an F1 engineer’s handbook, it’s just a racing simulator.

 

[MroczMR]

It’s just simulating racing.

In the real world, there are some racers that could probably set up a car, definitely in amatuer racing(solo time attacks, karting, entry level/grassroots circuit racing motorsports). As the tier raises, drivers communicate what they feel to the engineer. Many players can not tune a car. So, then, what’s the most players will achieve from playing any race simulator?

A simulator that allows players all the tools to tune a car may not be used. That player may still play the game as if it’s MarioKart.
A game like the first TOCA was excellent in giving the player a simulation of a race weekend and full season championship. The physics are horrible by today’s standards, but sitting in the cockpit, barely looking over the steering wheel with the white thumb & forefinger thrill of bumper to bumper racing, simulated the real BTCC racing very well.

If a game can come close to portraying the thrill of any king of motoracing, regardless if it has a slider for settings or needs an F1 engineer’s handbook, it’s just a racing simulator.

It could be also true. Sim is used for sci-fi games like Space sims (elite dangerous) or mech-sim like Mechwarrior. Those things doesn't even exist in real life, yet games try to simulate feeling of using those machines as close as possible to how we feel it could work... Same with arcade racing games, sim was used in earlier days for every racing title, I even remember that one old gaming magazin did categorize first Need For Speed as simulator It is just... there are more real sims and less real sims. Like that.

 

[Morbid65]

Aside from people trying to use the "arcade" and "simcade" as a way of putting people down for playing one over the other, I never got the fight against such terms. There are generally distinctions and sub-genres within just about everything, and they are typically used more commonly by enthusiasts/fans to help be more specific when discussing them.

Is kinda the same with music. "Heavy metal" covers a lot of things, but if you find someone that says "yeah I like Black Sabbath" then it wouldn't make any sense to suggest they check out Napalm Death just because "it's metal too."

I agree the terms shouldn't be used to attack or put down people who enjoy Need For Speed and things like that, but I don't see any need to get bent out of shape when someone calls a game arcade-y.

to me, it's great for those who are new to driving games that feature photo-realistic graphics (F1, Gran Turismo & Forza Motorsport series) so the players can get hang onto the physics before they may go and transition to the proper hardcore sims like Assetto Corsa Competizione, iRacing, rFactor 2, Automobilista 2, Assetto Corsa & DiRT Rally 2.0.

I agree with your logic here, but I think it often doesn't turn out this way... Games like GT and especially Forza Motorsport teach really bad habits that people struggle to drop when trying to make the transition to more realistic/less forgiving titles. Join any random public lobby in PC2/AC/ACC on console and I think you find most of the people in the lobby will also have trophies/achievements for Forza/GT etc, but still 50% of the field will crash before turn 1 and 75% of the field will have crashed by the end of lap 2.

I've helped organize a Forza Motorsport league for years now and we have looked into branching out into other titles further towards the sim side of the spectrum, like PC2 and AC. Even for guys who are serious enough about their racing to have joined an organized league, we have found that most of the guys really struggle with the less forgiving physics and higher emphasis on weight transfer and tire temperatures and things like that after getting so used to Forza.

A lot of the Forza/GT style career modes have people doing 4 lap races where they are expected to win every time out to get their gold medal and unlock whatever car, and the Forza hoppers in particular mostly consist of 5min races that force you to get up to speed and find your rhythm instantly so you can be aggressive and make moves because you don't have time to be patient. Particularly Forza, even when doing longer enduro races, is really a game of doing qualifying laps as tire wear and such are non-issues, and most of the leagues out there that do run longer races often force in a bunch of mandatory pitstops to ensure no one will have to use their brain no one will "unfairly" run out of fuel or tires and have to stop more than the rest.

Carrying that "attack attack attack, push for green sectors every lap" approach into PC2 and AC sent a lot of our guys crawling back to Forza after they got angry because they couldn't drive more than 2 consecutive laps without crashing.

Of course it's all just a mind set thing... for those who are truly "students of the game" and are putting in the thought/effort and analyzing their mistakes and stuff, then yes those titles can make good stepping stones, but it can still be hard to shake the habits. Myself coming from Forza and stuff, then buying a wheel and playing more AC in particular, sometimes I still zone out and fall into the "every lap must be new PB" aggressive approach that I do in Forza and end up backwards in the fence with a totaled car.

 

[TypeRDC5]

As much as I enjoy AC and ACC I always find myself playing Gran Turismo a lot more.

I appreciate the physics and sound on simulators but most of the time I don't want to mess around with tyre pressures etc and with GT I can hop straight on and just have fun that isn't too arcadey.

Also I don't have a PC and only a T150 pro wheel and a PS5 so I guess 'simcade' is a much easier option for me to enjoy racing.

 

[Mr Fahrenheit]

Useful classification for sure, but I don't really like it. Boiling down the entire game's quality into just car handling (and graphics in some cases) is too reductive for my taste.

As with the others, I don't try to concern myself too much with the sim vs. arcade vs. simcade trichotomy as long as I'm enjoying the game itself. That probably has something to do with me being the world's most boring man who wouldn't know realistic handling model even if it punched me in the face.