Zeroes to Heroes: how to learn a track in Driveclub

Discussion in 'Driveclub' started by Moto54, Jun 21, 2015.

  1. Moto54

    Moto54

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    144
    The idea is simple. Mcpartyman and myself will both drive the same new track, in the same car, and
    over a (hopefully) reasonable amount of time work out what it takes to make a Top 3 Leaderboard time.

    But we will also be posting here what it is, exactly, we are learning and doing as we progress.
    And that more than anything is the whole point of this thread. Its not to help us, its to help you!
    So it would be great if you tried it too- after all you have McPMan here to answer your questions,
    and he has multiple #1 Leaderboard times at other tracks. He's proven he can be as fast as anyone
    in Driveclub globally. And you have me. I am mostly known for being famous in my own mind, as a rule.

    Lets get started.

    The car we will use is the Ferrari 458 Italia
    It has a good gearbox, a good sound, it handles well, and it looks stunning in blue.

    The track chosen is Sinclair Pass, Canada.
    It has fast sections, some technical parts, and is one of the best looking sites in Driveclub.


    STAY TUNED
     
  2. Mcpartyman

    Mcpartyman

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    236
  3. Mcpartyman

    Mcpartyman

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    236
    Here is our challenge then. Just to measure what we need to achieve I tried a lap. I went round fairly flat out breaking for all sharp bends and no crashes. My time is a whopping 12 seconds off the pace!! Clearly work to do.
     
  4. Moto54

    Moto54

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    144
    Oh god, this is going to be brutal!
    I have a lap I thought deserved to be dipped in gold and retired in the DC hall of fame, but
    it turned out to be dipped in poo.. after seeing the Leaderboard.
    My best right now is a 1:31.112.
    Where oh where are those missing seconds going to come from??
     
  5. Moto54

    Moto54

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    144
    I have a theory. Its not a conspiracy theory.

    What I've felt at other tracks- I feel here at Sinclair. Theres a certain
    part of a chicane that 'excites' the speed you are going. So if you miss those spots the chicane feels
    normal (but ultimately slow) but if you hit the entry to a chicane a special way your rev's do not drop
    and even seem boosted.

    Remember that write up I did of the chicane at Fraser Valley? If you read it I even mention this!
    I said something like, "if you downshift the second time in the dip area you seem to get a boost".
    So this is not a new thought for me and this is exactly what I'm talking about at Sinclair.

    Mcpartyman I think you must have felt the same thing at the first chicane at Fraser (R)..
    I know about 4 days ago I wanted to ask you to have a look at my first split there in the RUF,
    and I spent about 40 minutes on only the first split. What I realized was the same thing:
    if you hit the entry to the first chicane a certain way your rev's seem to stay high or
    even get excited. This is my theory of how those extra fast times are possible at Sinclair.
    Its how my WR laps were done at Fraser, thats for sure.

    I only know its happened to me a couple of times without me realizing what was going on. And there
    are TWO chicanes at Sinclair and its no mystery that these seem/feel to be the important parts of
    the lap. The make-or-break parts of the lap. And they are!

    If (and its a big if) we could session only the chicane, we could pretty quickly sort out whats
    going on. As it is we encounter them only in the heat of battle. Not the best time to be
    inwardly questioning these things.

    So thats my theory. The point of this thread was to expose what it took
    to make a good Leaderboard time, and this theory is probably going to be my main contribution.

    Sinclair is a very cool track, only I dont know that I entered this challenge expecting to un-DaVinci Code the programming! The real test would be to have the replay of a #1 time.. we could just check the speedo at the chicanes.
    Unfortunately the leaderboard-mentality encourages secrecy, not sharing.
    I mean, thats the point of having a secret weapon.
    Its secret.
     
    Last edited: Jun 22, 2015
    MeanElf likes this.
  6. Centura

    Centura Premium

    Messages:
    1,642
    Hah. Kind of funny that you chose my favorite track and favorite car. :p

    I returned to the game two days ago after not playing for a month to finish the DLC from last month. Awaiting this month's DLC now! :)

    Anyway, since you picked such an amazing combination, I thought I would take a shot at it! I managed to get down to 1:30.732 in eight laps or so. It's #10 as of writing.
     
    Last edited: Jun 22, 2015
  7. Moto54

    Moto54

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    144
    Ive never bettered this first split time of 0:26.769. Try to beat it!
    Try it and keep hitting Restart. If every attempt only takes 27 seconds you should have a good idea whats
    possible in about 5 minutes! How about you Centura?


     
    Last edited: Jun 22, 2015
    bluemoon_19 likes this.
  8. Mcpartyman

    Mcpartyman

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    236
    Lol, you are well ahead of me. I had a quick go this morning before work but only got down to 1-34!!! My best first split was low 27 secs. I did get some big variety in speed through the woods depending on what line you take. I will look into that more closely. That chicane at the end is massive, I am sure like FV there will be a way of speeding out of it. Feel a bit lame at the moment as everyone else is 3-4 secs up on me!!!
     
  9. Moto54

    Moto54

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    144
    I have a feeling theres not much time to be found in the first split, and for the reasons I used
    about 5,000 words explaining elsewhere :)
     
  10. Centura

    Centura Premium

    Messages:
    1,642
    I continued doing some laps for a while. I managed to make my time a little bit better, but it's getting pretty damn hard.

    Most of my first sectors have been 0:26.8XX to 0:27.0XX. However, while doing complete laps, I actually managed to do a 0:26.642. The best one before that one was somewhere between yours and 0:26.800.
     
  11. Moto54

    Moto54

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    144
    Thanks for the reply!

    On a flying lap (non-AI started lap) you can hit the first corner better/harder.. not by much, but maybe
    worth a tenth or whatever.

    I picked the 458 Italia because I dont use it and heard its supposed to be a car
    for 'everyman'. But since I've been thrashing Sinclair I went back to a car I know I like to see if I
    could improve. I did. Could you please tell me where this would put me one the Leaderboards??
    (its a blessing and a curse not to have my PS4 online) :)
    Its the McLaren 650S. A car I like.
     

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  12. Centura

    Centura Premium

    Messages:
    1,642
    You can definitely drive through the first corner better on a flying lap. I think you also quite easily carry more speed over the finish line than A.I.

    Oh, hehe. :)

    #1 1:28.566
    #2 1:28.739
    #3 1:29.647

    EDIT: The new #1 is actually 1:28.488 courtesy of yours. :p This leaderboard was definitely not as competitive. I spent way, way more time on the 458 Italia today and I was still almost one second off. I feel like my best 458 lap was way better than my best 650S lap too...

    And I forgot to say; Yeah, the McLaren 650S is a wonderful car. It's a bit harder than the 458 Italia because the rear end is a lot more loose, but I feel like that's beneficial for some corners.

    EDIT2: It feels like I have slightly derailed the purpose of this thread. I'm sorry about that!

    EDIT3: I figured it might be worth mentioning; On Sinclair Pass, I struggle heavily with the double right hander before you start climbing the hill.
     
    Last edited: Jun 22, 2015
  13. Mcpartyman

    Mcpartyman

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    FB_IMG_1435013767757.jpg FB_IMG_1435013753285.jpg
    Haha, congrats on the 650s time, very impressive indeed. The 458 leaderboard is extremely competitive, I think only 2 seconds separate the top 50!! I could only get to 1-32 tonite so to reassure myself I also went a little off piste back to FV reverse and tried a couple of ferrari's I hadn't driven before, GTO and 458 special. The special is a beauty to drive, so much so I had the WR within about 5 mins!!! I might try that on Sinclair. Oh well did crap on our challenge but another 2 world records at my fav track.
     
  14. wdreamsmaycome

    wdreamsmaycome

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    225
    notes for sinclair pass at least in my opinion:

    - you *have* to do a flying lap, you can also set things up the lap before with an exit from the last turn that makes you go a little faster over the line

    - you have to basically be already turning left over the finish line, you can cut T1-left nearly completely no problem

    - ignoring the shallow turn T2 is quite important not to go too far in otherwise you're going to pay on the exit, same deal for T4 which is really important to start the downhill with as much speed as possible

    - T6R (after the shallow left hander) is fairly important to line up the small next chicane (which should be taken pretty much straight)

    - IMHO one of the most important turns of the track is the next one (right hander) as it sets up your speed for the longish uphill, if you mess this up even a bit you're going to pay

    - the double right hander can be cut quite a bit, which is helpful

    - the next left chicane is probably the second most important turn as it's really easy to lose a lot of time, but if you take it right you don't lose much speed

    being only a second off the top after an hour or so means this leaderboard should be fairly 'soft', I usually am 2 seconds off the 'hard' world records (say, evo challenges when kie was still racing) so I am expecting it to go in the low 28s or maybe even cracking the high 27s
     
  15. wdreamsmaycome

    wdreamsmaycome

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    225
    hah, I was wondering if somebody here was running laps as when I logged in I was #11 today from #10 last night :)

    I just improved my time (#7 now, and of course I messed up one of the middle turns, lost a good 0.3/0.4 there, argh) and my first split was 26.529 FYI, I was probably 0.4 ahead of the #1 ghost at that point so there definitely is some good time to be had there. Personally I am most inconsistent on the double right hander before the uphill, so hard to figure out a good line to take there, the final chicane is important too but much easier to get right than the double right hander IMHO.

    OTOH I got 26.529 on a flying lap, if you were able to get 26.7 from a restart you are definitely faster than me as a flying lap gains probably 0.3-0.4 easily compared to a restart one.

    The only difference in our lines that I can see is that I take the first right a lot wider than you and get to the apex later, the next 2 turns we are taking pretty much exactly the same way, if at all I am a tiny bit tighter on the second but not by much
     
    Last edited: Jun 23, 2015
    Moto54 and Mcpartyman like this.
  16. Mcpartyman

    Mcpartyman

    Messages:
    236
    This is the best guide yet, thank you. I am sure one of you will get this within a day or so. I am a slower learner so I may catch you all eventually!!!
     
  17. Centura

    Centura Premium

    Messages:
    1,642
    Same. I still haven't figured out a good line through there. I'm pretty sure I'm losing half a second to #1.

    It's extremely important to keep your speed up, but you can't go too wide after the second corner because you need to get on the throttle hard to begin to accelerate up the long straight.

    EDIT: I was trying some other leaderboards last night and I noticed that some ghosts are broken. I actually beat the #1 ghost on one of them, but in reality I was actually still one second off...
     
    Last edited: Jun 23, 2015
  18. Moto54

    Moto54

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    144
    Not at all! The purpose was for Mcpartyman and myself to try to unravel how a new track works..
    not for our sake but for others to be faster. Unfortunately I do not feel qualified here to help others.
    I'm not fast enough in the 458. But YOU are. If anything I think you should consider posting a replay
    for others to learn from (as I have done for other places). At the moment I've stopped even trying.

    All I have is this:


    You arrive at the first chicane after an uphill part and a fast left kink. At the crest of the uphill
    part you take the kink on the left side of the track, and the track is bumpy there. I believe the bumps
    play a part in whatever boost can be had going into the chicane. You can tell this by measuring how early
    (or if at all) you need to upshift leaving the chicane (before the next right corner.) If you're carrying
    some boost you upshift just as you leave the chicane. If not, you just plod along and barely reach redline
    in the gear you're already in.

    Compared to PCars DC doesnt have much FF going on at all; what it does instead is use things like the bumpy
    road just before the 1st chicane to insert it own brand of drama and consequence. Its not limited to Sinclair.

    I have gone from thinking Evolution consciously decided not to have a racing line graphic option, to thinking
    Evolution realized it would be impossible for them to HAVE a racing line option! Its pretty clear: in the
    absence of having to battle Force Feedback effects while racing, an alternative is to have racers battle
    where they need to BE while racing.

    Evidence of this is how you can drive what seems to be a correct corner, for example, and still find yourself
    tenths of a second slower that you imagined. Bandipur (R) is the best example of this, as there is only one
    actual corner before you see the frist split time, and yet notice how complicated it seems to drive ONE
    corner exactly correctly the way Evolution has it planned! I suppose its fun, but you never would think one
    corner could extract so much fuss. Plus it might not be fun. It might turn out to be annoying.
     
  19. Centura

    Centura Premium

    Messages:
    1,642
    Unfortunately, I think I have hit my ceiling. Only reason I got a pretty decent time so fast was because I love this car and track. However, it's really fun to learn the small and little, but important details. I thought I knew Sinclair Pass pretty well, but there was actually much more to it.

    Very interesting!
     
  20. bluemoon_19

    bluemoon_19 Premium

    Messages:
    1,098
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    Oh dear I was gonna say I just managed I 1.30.935 but I used the wrong 458:lol:. Still room for improvement once I try the correct car as my first sector was 37.3xx.
     
  21. Moto54

    Moto54

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    144
    Good attitude. I thought I might have come off as sour grapes before, even though I'm just
    saying what I notice, but anyway went back and tried a few laps again.. improved a little but still
    just outside the Top 10, but at least inside the dreaded 1:30+ number.

    Hats off to wdreamsmaycome (whoes name hopefully comes from the movie and not the phrase
    'wet dreams may come') :) for posting some guides. Thats cool of him. Wdreamsmaycome could
    do the same as Mcpartyman and drive numerous cars at (FV(R), Sinclair, i.e. a track you know inside out)
    and be in the Top 5. Thats relatively easy.

    At the start of the second split, you set up for the fast downhill left bend. I used to stay away from
    the extreme left, but now I think its fastest. Tires off the asphalt seems fine. More than fine. One way
    to judge yourself here is by how soon you hit redline in 5th. When I 'done this part good' it seems like
    6th gear can come pretty quickly.


    EDIT: I *almost* changed this whole thread early on to be an 'Aggregate Time' competition.
    The idea would be anyone could submit an individual sector split time and not the whole lap.
    We would remove a split when someone else bettered it, so there'd be this running duel based
    on 3 individual sectors. I'm guessing the aggregate time would be impressive!
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Jun 23, 2015
  22. Mcpartyman

    Mcpartyman

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    236
    I like the idea of the split times while we wait to see if someone can get the record. It most definitely won't be me, at least not in a hurry as 1-32 is my best and now I have a blister on my acceleration finger!! I need a rest from DC for a couple of days. Shame we didn't pick the 458 Special, I tried it on Sinclair and it was more fun to drive than the 458, not so rigid, meaning more variety in performance and much more green!!! Keep at it, I will be back.
     
  23. Moto54

    Moto54

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    144
    DRIVECLUB™.jpg
    The ONLY reason I didnt pick the Special is I have a few WR's in that car currently at other tracks,
    and I wanted the playing field to be more level. Little did I know I would be getting buried in that
    same field. Lets do the Aggregate thing soon though!

    This new time would have been a Top ten before, but not now (I dont think?)

    I'm saying a rosary for your little finger.. I hope it pulls through!
     
  24. Mcpartyman

    Mcpartyman

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    236
    Haha thanks for the prayers, sure it will be fine in a day or two. That time would have been top ten but as you say I think some of our guests may have pushed it back. Btw I just saw tonight there is a video on the Gt planet thread from Zakspeed doing a world number 2 lap with the Veneno at Sinclair. Have a look, it's a few pages back. I will use it for reference when I return.
     
    Moto54 likes this.
  25. torque99

    torque99

    Messages:
    6,212
    I had many goes, as this is one of my favourite cars and as I was no where near your very impressive times!- Still practising and using the tips. So....I stopped for a photo or 3 and thought I would pop one in here as my times and video of the race weren't worth saving!:boggled:

    Good thread idea :tup::gtpflag:

    DRIVECLUB™_20150623163458.jpg
     
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  26. Moto54

    Moto54

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    144
    DRIVECLUB™.jpg


    Its not as fun thinking my best time (so far) needs to be a secret. And I know not everyone is that way
    and it bums me out. Not being PS4 connected to internet probably has something to do with it (on my part)
    as I dont have the glory that comes with seeing my PS4 call tag on the Leaderboards to worry about and
    protect. I dont even have internet at home, so you see what I do to help a N-word out. Enjoy it while it
    lasts.

    Not much to see, really. The double right hander is entered in 6th and you downshift to 5th during turn in.
    Its important to let the car 'come around' on its own, in 5th, before gently accelerating in 4th after the
    car is pointed in the right direction. The last chicane-section is best done in 4th, but the trick is a lot
    of things have to be right for 4th to not bog down.

    One last thing- if any of you beat this time and DO NOT post a video, thats it. I'm getting rid of this thread.
    I will not have stingy and insecure people using generosity and good will for their own selfish needs. Ok??
    I do enough without having it used 'against me' so to speak. Be cool, post a video.

     
    Last edited: Jun 23, 2015
  27. KokosEnergy

    KokosEnergy

    Messages:
    92
    Location:
    Germany
    Awesome thread idea, thank you very much for your help!

    I am not familiar with playing manual gear... will most of the tips work on automatic since you're able to down and upshift while playing automatic?
     
  28. Centura

    Centura Premium

    Messages:
    1,642
    I'll have a video uploaded later or tomorrow.
     
  29. wdreamsmaycome

    wdreamsmaycome

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    225
    it is actually from the movie (what dreams may come) I'll see if I can figure out the video thing next time I beat my time (am not in front of my PS4 right now but I am pretty sure my #7 time yesterday was 1.30.3xx :) )

    if you don't mind a suggestion I think you are leaving some time behind on the last chicane by taking a tight entrance (which slows you down a bit for the following turns), I found it faster overall to be wide and start the turn in the chicane a bit late, basically aim where the yellow/orange things are on the right before turning in.
     
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  30. Centura

    Centura Premium

    Messages:
    1,642
    As promised, I have uploaded the video now. It's currently processing. Unfortunately, I couldn't save a replay (15 minute limit, sigh...), so I had to use the video I saved from SHARE.


    I'll write some notes tomorrow. I'm too tired right now.

    On another note, I'm jealous of your driving @Moto54. It's so clean and smooth. It looks beautiful.

    EDIT: Here's the current leaderboard:

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Jun 24, 2015
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