SCC Old Timer Event - 1970 Ferrari 512S - Sun, Jan 03rd - 20:00 GMT * Event Complete*

Supercar Challenge - Old Timer Event - Sunday, January 03, 2010 - 20:00 Hr GMT featuring the 1970 Ferrari 512S



With the holidays fast approaching or already here for some people, we'll be taking a short recess from the classic series to spend time with family and relax. The action will pick up again immediately following New Years, on January 3rd. Consider it a little present before returning to work. Event number 6 in the classic series leads us to the fast and beautiful Ferrari 512S. Now we're getting to some serious levels of performance. This car maybe even older than I am but it's a true Le Mans prototype with impressive speed, high levels of mechanical and aerodynamic grip and impressive braking performance. Going from the dismal brakes of the 250TR to the race bred brakes of the 512S is night and day.

For the most part, the rules and format will carry over from previous (365 GTB/4) event including running these races in a private lobby. But there are some rules and settings which I haven't yet decided on, including: Grid order & car set-up. Considering what took place during the "one-off" 250TR test event, I'm wondering if Biggle's suggestions of 'fastest lap' grid order wouldn't be a better idea. (Although I suspect it will make things rather boring). And now that we know raised suspension height is recognized to be a genuine bug by Eutechnyx, one that they're working to eliminate in the next patch and one that will resort in leaderboards being wiped again, it remains to be be seen how this will pan out.

I will open a lobby under my PSN ID: jjaisli approximately 5~10 minutes before the event starts and will first send race invites to those on my buddy list who have raced in the Old Timer series in the past. If anybody new would like to join, provided there's space in the lobby, you're more than welecome. Just send me a PSN message and I'll send you an invite in return.

Points will be awarded as follows:
1st place: 25 points
2nd place: 20 points
3rd place: 16 points
4th place: 13 points
5th place: 11 points
6th place: 10 points
7th place: 9 points
8th place: 8 points
9th place: 7 points
10th place: 6 points
11th place: 5 points
12th place: 4 points
13th place: 3 points
14th place: 2 points
15th place: 1 point
With an additional 1 point going to the fastest lap holder. Watch your red lines.


LOBBY CONDITIONS
TC: Off
ABS: Off
SC: Off
RL: Off
Transmission: Automatic (which will allow you to choose manual, semi or full auto)
Collisons: Off after penalty* (see below)
Penalties: unlimited
Setup Restrictions: Default Setup ONLY
Grid Order: * see below

- I encourage the use of headsets, although to be realistic, we know headsets don't work very well when more than 4-5 people are using them at the same time. And if we really have a large lobby, I would like to ask everybody to turn off their headsets completely once the race gets started as it will save bandwidth. Once back in the lobby, feel free to use the mics again.

- Between each event there will be a 5 minute break, longer if needed or requested. But I ask everybody to please stay in the lobby.

- I will write down times, fastest, laps etc after each event. But please keep track of your own times, just in case. I'll post the results either later that night or the following morning.

- We'll be trying a few new things for this event so please read this carefully:

- 1) For the first time we'll have a qualifying session. I will set collisions off and we'll have a quick 2 lapper to determine the grid order for the first race. I will ask everybody to TAKE IT EASY for the first lap, STAY IN GRID ORDER and DO NOT race each other on lap one. Drive quickly but try to keep a gap to the car in front of you of about 5 seconds. Once the second lap starts, this is your one and only qualifying lap. Collisions will be off so drive as fast as you can. After qualifying is over, I will set the grid order for the race by Fastest Lap and turn collisions back on (off after penalty).

- 2) As I would prefer this race to be default setup only, I will ask everybody to choose a specific default livery before qualifying to equalize setups. For the race, you will be able to run your own choice of livery provided you don't leave the lobby.

- 3) There will be only TWO races for this event. But they will be endurance races. 20 laps each. It's going to be long and tiring. The faster guys will be lapping the tail enders. So I ask those being lapped to please respect lapping cars and give way. And I ask those lapping to please appreciate that lapped cars can simply not roll over and disappear, especially if they're engaged in their own battle for position and they will make way at the first opportunity.

- 4) Race no. 2 will be run in REVERSE finishing order of Race no. 1. So there will be no qualifying for race 2 and the guys who finished on the podium in Race one will have it all to do in race 2. On to the events.

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Race No 1 : Riviera -20 Laps - Dry

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Race No 2 : Spa - 20 Laps - Dry

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- Now that the patch is out and we've seen a marked improvement in collision avoidance, I suspect the races will be much more interesting and closer fought, assuming we tone things down a bit. I'm not opposed to a hard battle and a little 'trading paint' but I'm against the idea of closing one's eyes, yelling "Banzai!" and throwing your car into a corner in a desperate attempt to pass and make it stick. Shoving cars around to push your way forward is NOT the way I want these events to pan out. I hope watching the videos posted from the 250 TR event made everybody realize that from a 3rd seat, it looked like a free for all and not very pretty. So let's keep our heads and keep things clean.

I hope to see everybody on the 3rd. In the meantime, Merry Christmas, Happy Holidays, Happy New Year and good luck making the GT Academy cut.

Hi Jeff

I'm really looking forward for this event, since this is one of my favourite cars in the game. I'm eager to see what tracks you will pick for this one (please, please NO VIR!! It'll be a crime get this car in that-thing-that-some-actually-think-it's-a-track-but-in-fact-was-made-by-a-drunk-guy-inside-a-row-boat-crossing-the-ocean-in-mid-storm-weather!)

I'd like to hear what everybody think about the set date. It's the first Sunday of the year and usually a lot of people are off during that weekend. I think that if we find that most of the usual drivers are likely to be absent because of this, that we should consider to postpone it for the Sunday after (the 10th). Tell me what you think of it.

As for the set-up thing I think it should be allowed even with the bug issue. It's better to have it free, and everyone would try to find their set-up at their will, rather then imposing the default set-up rule, and then to see during the event guys that aren't following it. (beside's I don't want to get rid of my lovely Martini-Racing livery costum made for this car... so 70's!)

Agree with Bullie in what concerns date and setup. About date, because the weekend after new year's eve is still a "holiday weekend". About setups, If the host cannot impose default setups, it's better to let them be customizable. One less problem.

About grid ... back in the TRD3 days I often had my lobbies with "reverse last results grid" and that was fun, so it's a bit of the opposite of what Biggles suggested. But a reversed grid only works (is fun) when the top guys don't exactly "push" their way to the front, so ... there are pros and cons to every solution. Your call Jeff

Well, January 10th is out for me personally. And in fact, even the 17th is up in the air. So I didn't want to abandon these events for a whole month. But come on guys, I know it's a holiday but it's the end of the holiday. In the evening. Three days after the new year. If you guys are still 'at it' or recovering by this point, let's just say, you take your partying much more seriously than I do. Let's just run it and whoever can make it is welcome to join in. Fair enough?

As far as the setups are concerned, I'm still in-between. Knowing that the current format is due to be scrapped, I'm wondering if it's just better to try and level the playing field. We'll see.

Just for you bullie, the first venue will be 20 laps of VIR in the rain.

EDIT: But just for the record, as we know oval races are still a problem, we'll stay away from them.

jjaisli

Just for you bullie, the first venue will be 20 laps of VIR in the rain.

Click to expand...

AAHHHHHH! You just got to love this guy!... (You @#%*%€$#!! )

About the dates, thing is that usually people will be away for the new year's eve and would come back home on Sunday. This will be my case. If I make it in time of the event I'll join in. If not... well I always have those practice sessions with you guys !

I would vote strongly for default set-ups. I don't see why everyone wouldn't stick to that - it's pretty obvious when someone does jack the back end up.

I didn't suggest "fastest lap" grid. I suggested EITHER fastest OR reverse fastest. My reasoning is this: keep the fastest drivers together, either at the front or at the back & they are able to keep in touch with each other. I suspect that (other than plain incompetence ) what makes the racing get a little hairy, is when one fast driver is at the back, desperately trying to make it to the front before his rival gets too far ahead.

I would prefer the 10 th too,but hey look your the boss Jeff( and yes before you say it here in Portugal we take partying very seriously...he,he.
I will try to make it but if i can't i suspect you guys wont miss me that much...
As for the grid order i'm with biggles either fastest lap or reverse exactly for the same reasons...
As for setup limitations i don't think there is really much sense in imposing restrictions to their use if you can't control it (there are no effectiv rules whithout the implied sanction)and it will only result in the rule observers to feel cheated by those who wont...

hi jeff
Sadly I cant be there for this event.The day before i go on a much needed vacation
to a warm place (canaries).I hope i am ready for the following event since i've missed
alot of your great events.

Hmmmm, well, I don't want to be driving around the track by myself either. Does the 3rd work for ANYBODY?

It should work

im in

yes sounds good i am there.. jj only let the tracks be known 2 days before, plzzzzzzzzz....??????

* Bump *

Hi Everybody! I just wanted to give this thread a little bump as a reminder and say:

(1) I'll be announcing the tracks this weekend. And this event will have a very different format and style compared to the past events. It doesn't look like we'll have too many people participating (although I could be wrong) As such, it will be a bit of a test to see how it goes and if people like it or hate it. The mystery will be revealed soon so open your presents but keep watching this space.

(2) I want to wish everybody a very Merry Christmas and a Happy Holiday. I've enjoyed putting these events together immensely during these last few months and thoroughly enjoyed the time I've spent on line with the lot of you. It's been a lot of fun and I look forward to more of them in the future.

Peace and Best Wishes to all.

I wish all you guys a merry xmas...all good for you and family...and great gaming-i know that sounded like a 12 year old...but who cares


Happy holliday
👍

merry merry guys merry christmas to all....

Happy Holidays to one and all!

Grandma Biggles says: "don't forget to dress warmly"

(except those guys in the Southern Hemisphere)

I'll be there, probably.

* Bump *

Tracks and new rules posted. Please read thread no. 1 carefully.

Hi guys, hope that everyone had a great christmas!

I can now say that almost certainly I will attend the event next Sunday, since most likely I'll be returning home on Saturday.

Jeff I'd like to thank you for NOT including that "thing" called VIR in the event. I rather like the new rules I added and I'm looking forward to it. I just think that Riviera might not be the best of tracks to test this for the first time (narrow, twitchy, hard to overlapped).

Finally, I am now racing exclusively on wheel and I managed to... get my times even worse! I promise to practice hard so I wouldn't disturb the race.

Can anyone post a few of their 'average' times for this car on the selected tracks? I just want to know if it's possible for me to even be competitive (before asking if i can take part)!

Also, if mikes are turned off after starting how would you know if you are about to be lapped? I would imagine with a full lobby it might be pretty confusing to know if the guy chasing you is for position or actually lapping you?

No set-ups? This is going to be impossible to police! I'm running the car at the moment with a set-up that has a lower ride height than standard. So its going to be impossible to tell who's running what. And at Riviera with the standard set-up you'll have cars bouncing all over the place crashing into each other.

Paulzx

Can anyone post a few of their 'average' times for this car on the selected tracks? I just want to know if it's possible for me to even be competitive (before asking if i can take part)!

Also, if mikes are turned off after starting how would you know if you are about to be lapped? I would imagine with a full lobby it might be pretty confusing to know if the guy chasing you is for position or actually lapping you?

Click to expand...

I'm estimating the race at Riviera around 35 minutes and Spa around 45 minutes. This would be close to a normal stint in sports car racing and about the maximum of what I'd want to put any gamer, especially pad users through. I'd have to check the leaderboards to really see the lap times to know what is or isn't competitive. But keep in mind, you can easily gain 2-5 seconds per lap depending on the car and track if you're running a monster setup. And this is one reason, among several, that I'd prefer to leave things stock and keep the field level.

When a car is lapping you, blue flags appear. It's not always obvious but it's something people will need to be aware of. And I would suggest for this event people race with name tags. If you're racing in 9th place and the person coming up behind you has a name tag showing them to be in 1st place, let them by.

sarrinen69

No set-ups? This is going to be impossible to police! I'm running the car at the moment with a set-up that has a lower ride height than standard. So its going to be impossible to tell who's running what. And at Riviera with the standard set-up you'll have cars bouncing all over the place crashing into each other.

Click to expand...

Not impossible Sarrinen. By forcing people to select a specific livery of my determination in the lobby, whatever setup changes they made will be erased the car will resort to stock setup; even if you then reselect their own livery, it will still return to default settings. I did this already in the 250 race. But it became a bit confusing with people constantly coming and going in between events. But by having only two races, it will be easier to control. I agree that the 512S has a rather dodgy suspension. And it's for this reason that I avoided tracks like Mugello (which I originally wanted in place of Riviera) simply because it's difficult to avoid the curbs.


@ Bullie77: There are certain places in Riviera where it's tricky to pass but other places where there is plenty of room. And I hope, considering (1) we will, at least in theory, be starting out in fastest to slowest order, and (2) the fact that this is a 20 lap race with PLENTY of time to make your way around other cars that peope will take it easy and be sensible when passing.

You guys are not kidding about the raised back end setup - i just improved my monza lap by some 3 seconds simply by raising the rear ride height to max (but still driving the exact same lap more or less)...it seems to turn the car into a drag car

So it's basically an exploit that should be removed because it's not realistic, it just favours drivers who know about it over thos who don't.

Clearly the only way to run events is to either make the setups default as suggested, or simply specify the exact setup that everyone must use, otherwise it's all pretty pointless, that would have to be run on a trust basis.

What a shame there's no virtual scrutineering yet

We know Eutechnyx is working to eliminate the weird effects ride height has on raw speed and they've confirmed it will be fixed in an upcoming patch (not the next patch which will be out in a few days but the one after). Once that's done, I'll go back to allowing setup adjustments in my events, although I'm not 100% satisfied with the turning options in this game.

In general, I like the idea of being able to adjust your setup and fine tune things and would prefer to allow that option in these races. But so long as this bug exists, I would just as soon eliminate setup adjustments from these events. But it goes a bit further than that. Going with really extreme negative camber can give you tremendous levels of cornering grip. But there are two problems with this. (1) As the game does not simulate tire wear, it makes it a bit unsatisfying. Having such extreme negative camber would have a huge impact on tire wear and after 5-8 hard laps, you'd probably wear your tires away to nothing. If the game did account for tire wear, you'd have to think of it as a compromise and scale back in order to preserve your tires. It could be much more strategic. And (2) I hate to keep bringing it up, but I really think pad users have a greater advantage over wheel users with some of these extreme setups. In some cases, these extreme negative toe/camber settings make the car undrivable with a wheel and the affects of the built in steering assist are exaggerated with the pad.

None-the-less, I still say it's better to have than not to have and once the ride height bug is eliminated, I will allow most likely allow tuning options in future events.

Welcome to the SCC crew Paulzx.

Sounds like a good event Jeff. It will make a welcome change from that #@%$*! GT5TT! I personally guarantee that anybody participating in these events will wind up with top 100 times for the 512S at Riviera & Spa. 👍

I'll try to be there.

I'm all for defaults, surely it's possible for everybody to respect the no-tuning rule. It's not as if there are big money prizes! (...or are there, Jeff? 💡 )

The big time savers are camber and the ride height thing, so anybody running heavy on these would be easy to spot. Anyway, the use of a pre-made livery can be enforced.

Learning how to properly drive a circuit takes the greatest amount of time (much more than learning the handling of a particular car). Many people don't have much time to practice. So doing just two circuits is a good idea, because it gives everyone a better chance of knowing the circuits properly and being competitive.

I won't promise I'll be there. But I'll promise I'll do my best to attend.

Agree on the no-setup rule and on how easy it is to enforce it. Jeff, if anyone leaves the lobby for any reason between quali and race, or between the two races, or even while we are all in the lobby, you'll just have to ask that someone to use ANOTHER default livery.

Hun200kmh

Jeff, if anyone leaves the lobby for any reason between quali and race, or between the two races, or even while we are all in the lobby, you'll just have to ask that someone to use ANOTHER default livery.

Click to expand...

Agree:tup:

Paulzx

Can anyone post a few of their 'average' times for this car on the selected tracks? I just want to know if it's possible for me to even be competitive (before asking if i can take part)!

Click to expand...

Now that I'm driving on a wheel and not the pad I feel like I'm learning how to drive again! Much more difficult to keep the car balanced for accelarating off turns and braking in to turns.

I did about 15/20 laps yesterday on both tracks and my times really, really suck:

1'51''xxx in Riviera
2'31''xxx in Spa

I'm now considering to run the event back on pad so that I will not provoke mayhem amongst other drivers! I'm pretty sure that with practice I'll be able to get the pace back to the levels I had before (although not that better either...), but until the event day I only have today for practising.

What do you guys think of it?

bullie, do as you want, no probs with me 👍

Last night I was invited by a close family member - PSN ID: hartur - to race him in SCC, a game he got recently together with Shift. After a few weeks with Shift, he switched to SCC and is enjoying it very much.

Since I had been more than 1 week without playing, and will have almost no time to practise before sunday, I asked him to open a lobby with the 512S, at Spa. We also tried Riviera, but I don't remember what times I did. At Spa, I think my best was 2.19,xxx, but Alan did a 2.16,xxx if I'm not mistaken. Default liveries, of course.

Although I already knew hartur is a very good "game-driver", he actually performed much better than I had anticipated (he did a 2.19 also IIRC) and I think he clearly has the pace and consistency to enter the event so I talked about it to him.