A taste of GT5 online? I hope not...

  • Thread starter Earth
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The only thing that concerns me, and admittedly I haven't had much experience with the ranking system on the Forza series, is that we all have a corner or 2 we wish we could have back. I remember a couple months ago in F1:CE where I completely nuked one of the top 10 online players on the 2nd hairpin at Bahrain. Although quite embarrassed, it was just one of those moments where I had a brain freeze in traffic and completely missed the braking point.

So I guess the question is how does the peer ranking system account for these bone headed, but not necessarily intentional, moments? Or do they just come out in the wash?
 
icelt
So I guess the question is how does the peer ranking system account for these bone headed, but not necessarily intentional, moments? Or do they just come out in the wash?
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Get a headset and apologize profusely.

Or if it is just a one time thing they get mad and give you a bad rating but otherwise you have good ratings. It's like real-life drivers trash talking each other because one guy made a mistake and ruined the race for someone else. Every other driver that isn't fuming mad understands that accidents do happen.
 
You are always going to get idiot racers out there, but a penalty system would be a good idea, as I have never seen one put in place for a racing game on a console. You aren't ever going to have a clean race either, so I suppose a few taps here and there are allowed, but an all-out smack from the side or behind for not paying attention would be a good way to penalise the someone who hit the other car. But then you will get the players that aren't very good in the first place so might frequently hit the player in front. I suppose here the host would have to specify that the race is for newer players only and that has the penalties turned off, or that collisions are turned off.

There are loads of variations and solutions you can make to try and minimize these problems, but you will never get away from it completely. PD will just have to try somehow to keep this as minimum as possible.
 
Actually F1:CE has penalties for course cutting that can be turned on or off for online play, hopefully they could do the same with in game penalties that GT4 had for hitting another car.
After a couple of penalties the bad drivers would be out of the picture until they were lapped.
 
TheMoose
Actually F1:CE has penalties for course cutting that can be turned on or off for online play, hopefully they could do the same with in game penalties that GT4 had for hitting another car.
After a couple of penalties the bad drivers would be out of the picture until they were lapped.
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Or even just black flag them and like F1:CE force them to sit in their garage area and wait for the race to finish. 👍
 
FoolKiller
Get a headset and apologize profusely.

Or if it is just a one time thing they get mad and give you a bad rating but otherwise you have good ratings. It's like real-life drivers trash talking each other because one guy made a mistake and ruined the race for someone else. Every other driver that isn't fuming mad understands that accidents do happen.
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Don't have a headset, but when warranted I always immediately make sincere apologies.

Anyhoo... other bad behavior that is more challenging to flag is bad breaking technique. Sometimes it can be hard to tell if someone is intentionally break checking or just inexpereinced on a particular corner. And to another watching they may not notice that the car in front broke way early and may only see the surprised follower ramming into the rear end of the first.

I definitely support some sort of ranking system to keep the 🤬 in check, but I guess I am also a little concerned that even that kind of system can be abused both subtlety and overtly.

However I suppose I'm thinking more of F1:CE here which does not support voice chat. Since GT5 should/will have chat abilities during racing it should make it alot easier to address these points right as they happen, as opposed to minutes later in a text lobby.
 
Foolkiller said exactly the thing that I've been thinking of ever since I saw there would be an online mode.
I'll get a headset for sure.

Of course all my thoughts of GT online always had exclusively cool and fair people playing, people that were there to have fun and have a great race, that could tap/rub fairly, knowing what they're doing and with the certain that the others would think and feel the same way...

You know, utopia.
 
It almost seemed like he was testing the AI. which as you can see, is far more improved from the previous game, scratching the lunatic driving and this video is niche for showing the flaws [as stated on the first page]
 
Rick Kelly was apparently the one playing the game as he seems to follow the coda "if you can't beat 'em ... punt 'em off!"
 
icelt
Don't have a headset, but when warranted I always immediately make sincere apologies.
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You can get a decent bluetooth headset for cheap, and it will work with your cell phone too.

Or I have an unopened USB headset that was meant for the PS2 and would be willing to work something out.
 
FoolKiller
You can get a decent bluetooth headset for cheap, and it will work with your cell phone too.

Or I have an unopened USB headset that was meant for the PS2 and would be willing to work something out.
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Oh yeah I know, just being lazy. And I don't own a cell phone, shocking I know, so I wouldn't get much extra functionality there.

I do appreciate the offer of assistance, but there's still a fair chance I'll get a retail version of Warhawk.
 
Which Bluetooth headset will you guys suggest, considering the signal quality, minimal (none if at all possible) connection drops, good sound quality, and price?
 
un_peacekeeper
Which Bluetooth headset will you guys suggest, considering the signal quality, minimal (none if at all possible) connection drops, good sound quality, and price?
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I'm just using the one that came with Warhawk. It works fine for both my phone and PS3.
 
Having spent some time online in Forza 2, I can safely say that I'd rather race offline than hop into a server at random. It's a rearenderfest, so if you have the lead, do everything you can to distance yourself from the pack, or get ready to eat some wall from a love tap from the rear. I was able to follow one guy around the Nurb tight on his bumper so I know it can be done, outside of lag which I saw one rather comical example of.

Racing online is one area where you have to find a group of real racers to hang and run with. And with Prologue having up to 16 real humans? I'm definitely hooking up with the people here. With the PS3 still being a little pricey, I'd hope the twerps would be at a minimum, but I bet it ends up as bad as it is in Forza. :P
 
Tenacious D
Having spent some time online in Forza 2, I can safely say that I'd rather race offline than hop into a server at random. It's a rearenderfest, so if you have the lead, do everything you can to distance yourself from the pack, or get ready to eat some wall from a love tap from the rear. I was able to follow one guy around the Nurb tight on his bumper so I know it can be done, outside of lag which I saw one rather comical example of.

Racing online is one area where you have to find a group of real racers to hang and run with. And with Prologue having up to 16 real humans? I'm definitely hooking up with the people here. With the PS3 still being a little pricey, I'd hope the twerps would be at a minimum, but I bet it ends up as bad as it is in Forza. :P
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If you get the chance, play F1:CE online... it's a great experience, and having the optional crash damage is a big bonus. 👍
 
Just a thought, why not have the percentage of time off the track as a tracked stat along with lap times. It would let you see roughly who was crap (slow and off a lot, like me), quick (fast and on a lot), and cheating (fast and off)
 
Earth
This video just gets worst and worst and worst. I don't even want to imagine the maniac behind the wheel. Maybe he just got done playing motorstorm for 12 hours straight? He seems to have the two games mixed up.

http://www.gametrailers.com/player/26968.html


He isn't playing online, but just like your typical "win at all cost" idiot you find on every competitive online game this guy goes all out to "win"

  • Cutting the course in ways I didn't think possible

  • Driving like a lunatic

  • Slamming into cars at every possible opportunity.

  • Look at 2:24 in the video. He even tries to run a car off the road for no apparent reason. Imagine that being you
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Sorry, but if you didn't know you could drive across those grassy areas like that, you can't have played the game much. Also, if PD are not going to penalise you for ramming cars like that, people will do it. That wasn't on-line as you say - you could tell by the parading cars.

As for the rep system, why limit it "per game"? SONY should have implemented a reputation system the same as Microsoft, because if they mess about in one game, and get bad rep, it messes things up for them across all of their games.
 
That video is quite dissapointing.

I know its not the pro physics setting, however you can see that car to car contact is not even remotely realistic. Most of those contacts should have resulted in a spin. Try that in forza and you dont get very far. And that annoying tyre screech... When I am an old man checking out GT10 I bet ill still be hearing that sound.

As for the driving in that video... Get used to it. My years of online experience tell me that PD will ignore it and every leaderboard will be filled with wall riding and corner cuts. Not to mention whatever physics glitches people will find, and they WILL find them.

Just look at the history of console racers online:
I started with V8 supercars but quickly moved to V8 supercars 2 which had a 4WD cheat, corner cutting and a bug in the aero which meant you simply set the downforce to 0 to set great lap times.

Then came PGR2 with the wall riding and pirate hacked discs.

Then V8 supercars 3 with corner cutting (didnt play it long enough to find out what else).

Next PGR3 which had wall riding, glitch shifting, corner cuts, hacked roms etc.

Forza 2 with glitches in the car class maths, shifting glitches, 4WD glitches, corner cuts, boosting.

PGR4 with physics glitch that lets a car do wheelies, wall riding, corner cutting.

With this fine history, does anyone believe GT5 will be any better? And from PD who could not even get GT4 to work over a lan?

Dirty driving will be king in GT5. Driving clean is always more fun and its the only way I will race. But if you are clean you are never going to see your name in lights on top.
 
nasanu
Just look at the history of console racers online:
I started with V8 supercars but quickly moved to V8 supercars 2 which had a 4WD cheat, corner cutting and a bug in the aero which meant you simply set the downforce to 0 to set great lap times.

Then came PGR2 with the wall riding and pirate hacked discs.

Then V8 supercars 3 with corner cutting (didnt play it long enough to find out what else).

Next PGR3 which had wall riding, glitch shifting, corner cuts, hacked roms etc.

Forza 2 with glitches in the car class maths, shifting glitches, 4WD glitches, corner cuts, boosting.

PGR4 with physics glitch that lets a car do wheelies, wall riding, corner cutting.
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You should try Formula One: Championship Edition. It has a great online racing system and can be set-up very easily to create a very accurate and fair race with no short cutting and "bouncing" off cars... which one can do on Forza 2 just as easily as any other. The damage in Forza 2 is almost entirely cosmetic, and the "crash" physics are far from realistic. Try doing the same "stunt" on F1:CE with crash damage on and you'll quickly find yourself stuck in your garage while the remaining drivers finish the race. :)


With this fine history, does anyone believe GT5 will be any better?
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Of course it will be better, but how much is still obviously in question.


And from PD who could not even get GT4 to work over a lan?
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Huh? I've play GT4 over LAN networks several times.


Dirty driving will be king in GT5. Driving clean is always more fun and its the only way I will race. But if you are clean you are never going to see your name in lights on top.
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I certainly hope that is not the case, as it has ruined the leader boards for GT3, GT4, GT:HD, Forza, Forza 2, PGR4, etc... but seeing as Sony developed F1:CE and it's online racing system is quite good at offering racers plenty of options for creating realistic and fair races, maybe they can use some of the same features.

As has been mentioned in this thread, developers for games like GT5, Forza 2, and even PGR4 face far more challenges than a game like F1CE so who knows.

If they can't incorporate realistic crash damage and mechanical failures due to the restrictions of the licenses from the car manufacturers, at least I hope they incorporate some optional stiff penalties for online races, so drivers are not rewarded for unrealistic driving, like short cutting a track, riding a wall, and bouncing off cars. 👎

Of course we really won’t know anything until the game actually comes out though right? :)
 
nasanu
Dirty driving will be king in GT5. Driving clean is always more fun and its the only way I will race. But if you are clean you are never going to see your name in lights on top.
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Why, because no one has skill anymore? Dirty driving won't be "King" as far as I'm concerned because Thats not racing, thats childish driving or "playing bumper cars" as I always say. People who Drive like that make me mad because they think knocking someone off the road is the only way to win when it isn't. I know for sure I'm only gonna race the sixteen people I know are fair racers and not some random, unskilled idiot who ruins peoples races just because he's a poor driver. I say this to any wreckless drivers out there: You can't race like a good sport, don't race at all, period.
 
I hope they develope a super online community Also rooms and tournaments that detect the g25 for the best possible gaming experience.
 
Thing is I dont want to have to wait untill I can get all my firends online at the same time just to have a clean race. And I want to be able to compete on leaderboards. Being able to setup and control your own races is fine but it does not help with any of the above.

Oh while I remenber, did you really have a FULL grid of cars over lan in GT4? I doubt it because the horrible slowdown makes it impossible. From memory at the lans I have been to we had to limit races to 3-4. I really dont believe that PD will get 16 player online working, I am betting on 6-8.

I know you guys are excited over GT5 and I am too. However thats no reason to be blind. PD have always been great in some areas and quite bad in others. Multi play is a major weak point for them. And their attempts to stop wall riding in GT4 were stupid. I have a friend who found out how to get around that within a few laps. Hairpin at 200kph? No problem. Also we have no idea if PD is interested at all in stopping online cheating. Some companys just arent. Turn 10 who do Forza 2 are quite good at patching cheating where they can. However Bizarre who make the PGR series just turn a blind eye even when their fans are screaming at them. PD may well do the same.
 
nasanu
I know you guys are excited over GT5 and I am too. However thats no reason to be blind.
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I think when someone makes judgments on a game that hasn't even been released yet is acting rather blindly, don't you think?

I also think the strength of a person's opinion is diminished by the amount of exaggeration that person uses to support their opinion… especially when they don’t even have their facts straight.

Just something to consider.
 
Digital-Nitrate
I think when someone makes judgments on a game that hasn't even been released yet is acting rather blindly, don't you think?

I also think the strength of a person's opinion is diminished by the amount of exaggeration that person uses to support their opinion… especially when they don’t even have their facts straight.

Just something to consider.
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One can judge quite a lot about a game before its released. If I was to say it was a driving game would you question that because I have not played it and dont know for sure? I have never played NFS:Pro street but I am quite sure that judging from previous games I know quite well what to expect (rubbish physics, some eye candy, lots of 'ethnic' americans acting too cool in cut scenes and of course of kind of drift events? Tell me I am wrong.).

This is the fifth game in the series. It is wiser to assume the status quo than to expect some revolution.

And if you could show my accused exaggerations and incorrect facts that would be great. Personally when someone resorts to simple attacks like you have, I feel they cant argue with what I have said and deep down must agree. Otherwise there would be no need for it would there?
 
nasanu
One can judge quite a lot about a game before its released. If I was to say it was a driving game would you question that because I have not played it and dont know for sure? I have never played NFS:Pro street but I am quite sure that judging from previous games I know quite well what to expect (rubbish physics, some eye candy, lots of 'ethnic' americans acting too cool in cut scenes and of course of kind of drift events? Tell me I am wrong.).
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But when those games say they now have a simulation mode, which is a whole new take for them, do you really know what it will be like? You are downplaying the online capabilities of GT5 based on past experience of......wait they haven't done true online yet. You have nothing to base it on, just like you would have no past sim mode for NFS to compare to.

This is the fifth game in the series. It is wiser to assume the status quo than to expect some revolution.
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What is PD's online status quo? Oh, they haven't tried it yet, so there is no status quo.

And if you could show my accused exaggerations and incorrect facts that would be great.
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Your comments about their LAN play are purely your experience alone and sound like a hardware/connection issue, or exaggerated. As there have been many GTP gatherings where LAN play has been done successfully many active, long-time members know that the LAN play can support a full grid quite well. No one comes back from these GTP meet-ups and says that we should just give it up because the LAN is horrible. In fact, the UKGTP has happened eight times now. Apparently they enjoy it a lot. And if you want you can find the thread from UKGTP 8 and even watch the videos taken from then doing this quite well.

Personally when someone resorts to simple attacks like you have, I feel they cant argue with what I have said and deep down must agree. Otherwise there would be no need for it would there?
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Actually he was pointing out flaws in your argument, not attacking you personally. If he had called you names then it would be simple attacks to hide his lack of ability to argue his point. But pointing out what he sees as a flaw in your argument is a good debate tactic.
 

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