A taste of GT5 online? I hope not...

[nasanu]

You are downplaying the online capabilities of GT5 based on past experience of......wait they haven't done true online yet.

What is PD's online status quo? Oh, they haven't tried it yet, so there is no status quo.

Actually PD promised online play for GT4. They failed to get it working and gave up. Their track record as it stands is 100% failure.

Your comments about their LAN play are purely your experience alone and sound like a hardware/connection issue, or exaggerated. As there have been many GTP gatherings where LAN play has been done successfully many active, long-time members know that the LAN play can support a full grid quite well.

GT4 can only handle 4 cars, not 6. I am sure the lans would have been organised in groups of 4. But dont take my world for it:

https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?t=54688#post1524046
-"I have tested the LAN settings over and over and found that these settings below result in the least lag (YES, I said LAG! Coz the game stutters!"

http://forums.gttimes.com/viewtopic.php?t=11297
-"Depending on driver numbers we may test out a 6 player grid once again. I know our past attempts with 6 PS2’s caused severe slowdown"

Maybe someone did find some settings that worked for GT4, I dont know. However just the fact that you have to search for a solution to lag on a high bandwidth lan is inexcusable.

I'll just thow in another page of complaints about GT4 lan mode for good measure...

http://www.gameplanet.co.nz/mag.dyn/Reviews/2866.html

Actually he was pointing out flaws in your argument, not attacking you personally. If he had called you names then it would be simple attacks to hide his lack of ability to argue his point. But pointing out what he sees as a flaw in your argument is a good debate tactic.

He was not pointing out flaws in my argument, he was saying I exaggerated and lied with nothing to back up his claims. Big difference.

Argue with me all you want however some simple facts remain:

1: PD has never been able to stop the common forms of cheating in any of its racing games.

2: PD has no history of any sucessful online play.

3: History shows that reducing the possibility of cheating is not a concern for most publishers/developers.


I am not saying GT5 online wont be great, it just may well be. Its also in the back of my mind that Sony is focused on online with Home and perhaps they won't let PD ship GT5 with a bad online mode. Having said that I am still saying dont get your hopes up. Thats all.

 

[G.T]

GT4 can only handle 4 cars, not 6. I am sure the lans would have been organised in groups of 4. But dont take my world for it:

Nope. It can handle 6.

https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?t=99500

And having been to one of these meetings the lag is minimal.

 

[nasanu]

Nope. It can handle 6.

https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?t=99500

And having been to one of these meetings the lag is minimal.

Well a lot of people including myself could not get over 4 playable. But thats really not the point. There should be no lag in a lan. None. Lans can handle megs of data a second. Online racing games need only 30kbps max (12 players over xbox live uses less). Even if you managed to get only minimal lag, something is still very very wrong.

 

[RACECAR]

Thing is I dont want to have to wait untill I can get all my firends online at the same time just to have a clean race. And I want to be able to compete on leaderboards. Being able to setup and control your own races is fine but it does not help with any of the above.

Who said you have to wait? I know I didn't. It could be a planned gathering or meeting(however you say it)way ahead of time as oppose to waiting. Wanna compete on the leaderboards? Thats what the online times trials are for.

Also we have no idea if PD is interested at all in stopping online cheating. Some companys just arent. Turn 10 who do Forza 2 are quite good at patching cheating where they can. However Bizarre who make the PGR series just turn a blind eye even when their fans are screaming at them. PD may well do the same.

I do not recall anyone saying PD WILL, but I do remember people saying they could. Why would you judge what one developer would do based on what another did? Just like we don't know PD is interesting in stopping online cheating, we also don't know if they'll be as careless as Bizarre(rather fitting name for this case,huh?).

Their track record as it stands is 100% failure.

Not to offend you at all, but that sounds like you have rather unreasonable expectations with that comment.

he was saying I exaggerated and lied with nothing to back up his claims. Big difference.

I do recall DN saying "I also think the strength of a person's opinion is diminished by the amount of exaggeration that person uses to support their opinion… especially when they don’t even have their facts straight" but I don't see where he claims you "lied".

I know you guys are excited over GT5 and I am too. However thats no reason to be blind.

It is wiser to assume the status quo than to expect some revolution.

From what I'm reading in these two posts, you appear to be telling us not to be so optimistic rather then what possibly might happen. Why dwell on the negatives when there are positives right in front of you? I say be a bit more positive.

 

[nasanu]

Who said you have to wait? I know I didn't. It could be a planned gathering or meeting(however you say it)way ahead of time as oppose to waiting. Wanna compete on the leaderboards? Thats what the online times trials are for.

What I was getting at is being able to turn on the console, search for a game and have a good race. Having to orgainse everything before hand is totally unrealistic. And I do intend to enjoy competing in the online time trials. However if they are implemented in the same mannor as they are in GTHD then this will not be possible as wall riding will consume the top of the leaderboards on most tracks.

But wait before the reply of 'its only a demo', I am fully aware of this and the fact that in the real game things might change. However it does show that either a, they didnt even think about cheating or b, they did think about it but could not figure out that people would wall ride (not possible) or c, they dont care or dont think it will impact their product. If stopping cheating was important to PD then anti cheating measures would be in the demo. I think it is quite self evident.

I do not recall anyone saying PD WILL, but I do remember people saying they could. Why would you judge what one developer would do based on what another did? Just like we don't know PD is interesting in stopping online cheating, we also don't know if they'll be as careless as Bizarre(rather fitting name for this case,huh?).

I agree that we dont know and that each developer is different. But we can learn from history. It tells us that players will find every possibe means to cheat and that cheating has been possible in every single GT game to this day. It also tells us that cheating is not really on developers radar when making a racing game. To thier credit they did put that reduced speed and blur effect into GT4. But it was almost totally useless being so easy to circumvent. And now in GTHD we are back to nothing again (I assume the same in the GT5P demo?).

I do recall DN saying "I also think the strength of a person's opinion is diminished by the amount of exaggeration that person uses to support their opinion… especially when they don’t even have their facts straight" but I don't see where he claims you "lied".

He said I didnt have my facts right. In other words, I was not telling that of which was true -> a lie. Or you can read it like he was saying I believed something that was false which is bascially calling me an idiot. Either way what he was not saying was anything to back up his claims.


But anyway I'll make this my final post in this thread, however I will be digging this up when prologue is out (if it has online support). Well, after I have played it to death

 

[FoolKiller]

What I was getting at is being able to turn on the console, search for a game and have a good race. Having to orgainse everything before hand is totally unrealistic.

As we have done this with Warhawk, by basically saying, "Hey, I'll be on tonight if any of you guys want to play," on these very forums I can tell you that it is not unrealistic. Or many times I just see who is online and then follow them to their game. Personally, I like to let them know I am there by joining the other team and then killing them, but some of us jump into a game on the same team and chat while we play. Considering only a few GTP PS3 owners have Warhawk and I expect nearly all to have GT5 I imagine this will be even easier to just say you will be online or organize or just find someone on your friends list that is already playing.

And then of course there is the aspect of finding people online randomly that you enjoy gaming with and adding them to your friends list too. I have a couple of those.

I think you are thinking too negatively about how this can work. So far my online experience with the PS3 has gone extremely well and I expect the GT5 experience to continue this way. If the maturity level of gamers in Warhawk over Halo is any sign then the maturity level of GT5 over PGR and Forza should be huge.



As for all your other online fears. Prologue is out in Japan now so once we get some good feedback we can determine from there. Let's stop the petty arguing and save the criticisms and/or praise for that shall we?

 

[RACECAR]

What I was getting at is being able to turn on the console, search for a game and have a good race. Having to orgainse everything before hand is totally unrealistic.

How is that unrealistic? People do this all the time as does every real sanctioning body or car club oso I don't see how see how organizing an event/gathering/meeting is unrealistic. Even People who play first person shooters do it so I don't see whats the problem. Besides, just searching for one will in no way gonna guarantee you gonna get it whereas when you plan, at least you'll know that you will have a good race.

 

[BlackBeadyEyes]

I think that nasanu is being overly pessimistic when it comes to GT5 online. I mean, other than dark_ruffo, every thread and basically everybody has been positive when it came to GT5 online. And that's good, because I don't have a PS3 and I have no idea when I'm going to get one. In fact, I bought a Logitech Playlink because of GT5 online, you know? So, I think nasanu needs to get over his own bad self and realize that it's going to work NO MATTER WHAT.

Just my two cents.

 

[FoolKiller]

In fact, I bought a Logitech Playlink because of GT5 online, you know?

Wouldn't a Wireless router be less trouble?

I guess it depends on how much you paid as I have seen online prices from $25 to $85.

 

[nasanu]

I think that nasanu is being overly pessimistic when it comes to GT5 online. I mean, other than dark_ruffo, every thread and basically everybody has been positive when it came to GT5 online. And that's good, because I don't have a PS3 and I have no idea when I'm going to get one. In fact, I bought a Logitech Playlink because of GT5 online, you know? So, I think nasanu needs to get over his own bad self and realize that it's going to work NO MATTER WHAT.

Just my two cents.

Well I was right for the most part. Online was horrible when it launched technically, which they have mostly sorted out now. But it IS full of cheating where possible just like I said it would be. And even now GT5P has very limited online options and is put to shame by almost all xbox live racers (for online options only).

I think I was quite justified considering what PD have delivered. For a start it was very hard for most people to even download the online update, personally it took something like 20 tries for me. Then there is the issue of no lobbies or any sort of control over event selection, no racing with friends... Pretty much every feature considered standard for other racers online is missing here.

If you have never raced on xbox live before you might be impressed by GT5P online as it stands now, but show it to a Forza2 racer and they will point and laugh. And rightly so.

 

[Hereward]

Right I just sighned up after reading the above post!
Quick history of who I am, I own a PS3 and until recently owned a 360, I was a moderator on the ill fortuned HDVG running the console section and also the forums Forza 2 team, I now run my own forum which is non console based. I have no axe to grind against either machine and I personaly consider then to be technicaly similar at this point in time, I did eventualy go over to the PS3 for it's future software titles and it's ease of use as a media center. I have been hammering the 360 and PS3 live servers for well over a year and am a member of a number of clans from FPS to driving generes.
Right thats out the way........Can I just point out that GT5 Prolouge is a DEMO! a big demo, and one you have to pay for, but it is still a demo! the online features are minimal as is the rest of the game compared to the final product! It's been stated that PD will be incorporateing patches and new features to prolouge as development continues, your in essence playing the Beta version and giving PD essential data on how to develop the online aspects for the final game. Please don't compare it to forza 2 which is a finished product, by all means compare it to the Forza 2 online demo.......but that wouldn't be a fair comparison now would it?
GT5 will have been through a longer development process and will be about 12 months further into the release callender and as such will be better than Forza 2, if there was a Forza 3 due for release at the end of the year I'm sure that would be better than Forza 2 or T10 would be taken out the back and shot! If your looking at comparisons then I'd say GT5 is looking to be a mix of Forza2 physics with PGR graphics and accesability, of course to be honest the GT series kicked off what we consider to be the "standard" raceing sim we see today but with GT5 there dose seem to be a sway towards realisim.
Right finaly, if your playing the GT5p online side of things you have to remember that your playing the Japanese version....hard to miss that one, but you also have to remember that until it's released in north america and europe tere are no "loca" servers! your playing on, or rather through a server which is not desighned to be used by people outside of Japan and as such your going to get lag and other issues!
Before I get branded a PS3 fanboy on my very first post I'm a ZX81 Fanboy and allways will be! LOL

 

[StarJunor]

That is true but real racers get punted quite a bit also.

 

[redline]

Well I was right for the most part. Online was horrible when it launched technically, which they have mostly sorted out now. But it IS full of cheating where possible just like I said it would be. And even now GT5P has very limited online options and is put to shame by almost all xbox live racers (for online options only).

I think I was quite justified considering what PD have delivered. For a start it was very hard for most people to even download the online update, personally it took something like 20 tries for me. Then there is the issue of no lobbies or any sort of control over event selection, no racing with friends... Pretty much every feature considered standard for other racers online is missing here.

If you have never raced on xbox live before you might be impressed by GT5P online as it stands now, but show it to a Forza2 racer and they will point and laugh. And rightly so.

What are you on about? Talk about flogging a dead horse, give us all a break and stick with Forza2 then.

I've had GT5 Prologue since it came out in Japan, and it is awesome, nothing comes close on any console, and it's just a "prologue".

The only cheating I've encountered is on the Fuji track on the Standard physics, but I only race with the simulation physics so it isn't a problem.

On the subject of wall riding, you were way off the mark on that one, so much as glance at a wall and you got yourself a penalty, enough to make people stay off them.

Same goes for other cars, rear end an opponent, another penalty, sometimes a big one, go into a corner with no hope of making the turn and your car becomes a ghost so you can't take anyone else out.

I too had reservations about online play but I'm happy to say i was wrong, thankfully i kept my doubts to myself instead of spouting off rubbish on here.

The only problem i have encountered is lag, not surprising when i live in scotland and the majority of people i must be playing online are on the other side of the world, sometimes cars can warp into you from miles away and take you out, i say sometimes, twice, out of loads of races.

So to sum up, GT5 Prologue is king, and it's not even the finished article, but you keep on playing Forza2, where a 150mph crash results in a scratched bumper, call that realistic damage? lol

 

[Jerzzzey]

Online is & will always be crazy.

 

[Obli]

On the subject of wall riding, you were way off the mark on that one, so much as glance at a wall and you got yourself a penalty, enough to make people stay off them.

Same goes for other cars, rear end an opponent, another penalty, sometimes a big one, go into a corner with no hope of making the turn and your car becomes a ghost so you can't take anyone else out.

I too had reservations about online play but I'm happy to say i was wrong, thankfully i kept my doubts to myself instead of spouting off rubbish on here.

Thanks for these details. I didn't expect the penalty system to be that good already. Sounds great. So, would you say it is hard to cheat / be unfair?

I'm all for clean racing.

 

[resistance100]

The problem is you are always going to get drivers like this, i have experienced it in Forza as well. Hopefully the custom game patch comes sooner rather than later as knowing who you are racing is the sure fire way to ensure that it won't happen.

The other thing i hope is that they make the penalties good enough, so that it puts people off driving like that, that worked really well in F1:CE imo

 

[Scratch]

This trailer is no surprise

"ITS A BMW DRIVER!"

 

[resistance100]

This trailer is no surprise

"ITS A BMW DRIVER!"

that comment made me laugh

 

[Scratch]

that comment made me laugh

Lol, i had a good laugh at one of the lectures at uni... We were doing presentation on semiotics in photography, and one of the pictures we were discussing was a BMW advert http://iplot.typepad.com/iplot/images/2007/11/24/bmwmarketing.jpg ... Turned out in a very funny argument about bmw drivers

 

[Ja5on]

The problem is you are always going to get drivers like this, i have experienced it in Forza as well. Hopefully the custom game patch comes sooner rather than later as knowing who you are racing is the sure fire way to ensure that it won't happen.

The other thing i hope is that they make the penalties good enough, so that it puts people off driving like that, that worked really well in F1:CE imo

totally agee mate.

Ive had some awesome races on forza, yes there he as been a little tap here and there or a wee side swipe but you get that in proper racing. But ppl who just run you off the track shouldnt be racing.

But then again some bumps etc can be down to lag.