Analysing the AI behaviour and performance in GT6

[fifomaniak]

I didn't read all of the posts here, cause I didn't have time yet, but just wanted to add that player's PP definitely has an affect on AI level in career. When I used lower PP cars, they were also driving slower, but when I used cars similar to theirs, just dropped tires by 2 or 3 grades down, they were driving faster than before and I actually had good fight with them sometimes.

 

[Racelouse]

i think there is a rather simple reason why the AI is so bad in GT6 and thats because of the whole concept of how the career mode is set up: almost all of the races are very short and you always start from pretty much last position.

how is that supposed to work if the AI was actually competitive? you can only overtake 10 opponents in 3 laps if they are much slower than you.

and its not helped by the fact that the grids in the later races are often made up of a lot of similarily powerful cars and then one or two cars which are much faster. how can you have fun in those races of you need to use a car which has much more power than 90% of the grid just to catch those two fast guys up front.

the whole way this is set up does not favour good competitive racing.
it actually boggles my mind how the guys at PD can neglect the heart of their game in such a way.
especially when on a racing game you do not need to invent a complicated storyline or any such thing.
setting up a career event should not take more than a couple of minutes and a few mouse clicks,
all of which can also be influenced by the player himself with the use of a few sliders so that everyone can
set the races to their liking.

at the moment the races in career mode are just something that you need to go through, not something that i do because i enjoy them.

i would wish for longer races around 10-20 laps, qualifying and practice modes and an AI that is adjusted to your skill in a much more subtle way.

besides that the championships could be randomized a little to improve replayability.
weather should be different each time and racetracks should be randomly choosen from a selection that fits each championship.


career mode could be so vastly improved with so very little work involved...

 

[eran0004]

@Samus

AI in a racing game will always be tough to do, even the PC sims with 1% increment adjustment levels aren't perfect, they can feel like they're breaking the physics and simply programmed to go faster through other means if you turn them up (at least that is my experience). On consoles though the bare minimum they should be offering are several tiers, even if it's just the basic 'Easy/Medium/Hard'. That would help a great deal in catering to more people. Plus as you say it gives the scope for improvement. Sure you will always have the best guys that can smoke the best AI on the hardest settings but not much you can do for those guys.

And it's not just a matter of adapting the AI to suit the gamer, it's also a matter of adapting the game to suit the AI. I mean, it's not an AI issue that the events feature cars of different performance, or that the races are short, or that there are rolling starts with hundreds of meters between every car. Those three circumstances combined forces the events to be balanced so that the gamer is so much faster than everyone else.

 

[KamilCader]

If you set the number of laps to unlimited in single race, the handicap algorythm will never occur and there will be at least one competetive AI that you wont be able to overtake that easly.

 

[Samus]

So I decided to some more testing this morning. First of all I wanted to see how far off at least my ultimate pace that Jaguar XJR-9 was running, so I took it one, stock, in a TT on Motegi road. As per the previous test the AI was lapping at 1.53 - 1.57, I managed a best of 1.43.4 after five laps. So at worst, 10 seconds faster, at best 14 seconds faster a lap.

So, nowhere close to my limit. Next I decided to test this theory:

I didn't read all of the posts here, cause I didn't have time yet, but just wanted to add that player's PP definitely has an affect on AI level in career. When I used lower PP cars, they were also driving slower, but when I used cars similar to theirs, just dropped tires by 2 or 3 grades down, they were driving faster than before and I actually had good fight with them sometimes.

First of all I did the race again with the XJR-9 bone stock, on racing hards, identical to the AI in the race.

AI laps:

1. 1.53/4 approx
2. 1.51.4
3. 1.50.4
4. 1.49.8
5. 1.53.2

My laps:

1. 1.48.4
2. 1.44.4
3. 1.45.4
4. 1.42.0
5. 1.42.5

So nothing hugely surprising, the AI was consistently slower than me and I caught and passed it on lap 3, winning by several seconds. The AI got faster as the race went on, just like the Lambo race, but he seemingly gave up on lap 5, no chance of catching me and no challenge from third. The pace of the AI car was a little faster than the Lambo race though, but not by much.

Right so next test is to lower the tyres on the Jaguar so it laps about the same pace I could lap the Lambo. Sports Medium is what I chose, able to lap around the 1.50 - 52 region in TT. Similar to what I did in the Lambo. So i'm entering the race in the same car, same PP, but lower grade tyres that match the PP performance of the Lambo.

I've done a little table for this one:

So despite my laptimes being similar to the Lamborghini race it plays out very differently. The two AI lead cars dart away setting the best lap times yet, the BMW taking the lead. After three laps I've seemingly got no hope of winning, the AI are significantly faster or similar at best, and two laps to go. But then the 'let you win' mentality kicks in on lap four, and kicks in hard. The AI drop their laptimes by a massive 10/11 seconds allowing me to quickly catch them in the last two laps.

It's as if they went hard out to win thinking I had similar performance from my PP being the same then by the start of lap 4 they realise i'm not fast enough and they start driving very slowly to let me catch up. It wasn't quiet enough to let me win as you can see but still it made a joke of the whole 'race' and it does show indeed that the AI 'read' PP first, see how you're doing and then if necessary adjust to let you catch up. If you however start with much lower PP they'll take it steady the whole race, allowing you to catch them steadily.

If you set the number of laps to unlimited in single race, the handicap algorithm will never occur and there will be at least one competetive AI that you wont be able to overtake that easly.

This is somewhat true but of course doing that you can never actually finish a race. Endlessly lapping and then just quitting when I get bored doesn't really appeal to me.

 

[eran0004]

Here's the replay in external camera. Framerate is better, but the resolution is crap and as the sound was nowhere to be found I added some contrasting music instead.

 

[Johnnypenso]

So despite my laptimes being similar to the Lamborghini race it plays out very differently. The two AI lead cars dart away setting the best lap times yet, the BMW taking the lead. After three laps I've seemingly got no hope of winning, the AI are significantly faster or similar at best, and two laps to go. But then the 'let you win' mentality kicks in on lap four, and kicks in hard. The AI drop their laptimes by a massive 10/11 seconds allowing me to quickly catch them in the last two laps.

Pretty much the same conclusion I drew, that the AI match your pace, faster or slower to create the illusion of a good race, when in fact it's more like winning from second in F1 because your team mate had team orders and had to pull aside to let you win. I'm sure there are limits, you probably couldn't take a Vitz into that race and win (should try that) and if you had a similar car as the AI on RS tires it probably won't be able to come near your laps times and you'd blow the field away. But it does sort of nerf the idea that you can adjust your car to get a good race, because all you are really doing is handicapping yourself so that you get the AI's outer limit of speed (higher or lower) that it'll let you win with.

 

[Johnnypenso]

Sorry for the double post This discussion of real life physics, speed of light, mass vs. top speed is wonderful, but could we get the flat floor thing figured out in here and maybe put the general physics stuff over there?:

https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/thre...physics-discussion.306774/page-7#post-9583872

 

[Samus]

Pretty much the same conclusion I drew, that the AI match your pace, faster or slower to create the illusion of a good race, when in fact it's more like winning from second in F1 because your team mate had team orders and had to pull aside to let you win. I'm sure there are limits, you probably couldn't take a Vitz into that race and win (should try that) and if you had a similar car as the AI on RS tires it probably won't be able to come near your laps times and you'd blow the field away. But it does sort of nerf the idea that you can adjust your car to get a good race, because all you are really doing is handicapping yourself so that you get the AI's outer limit of speed (higher or lower) that it'll let you win with.

It would be interesting to see when the cut off is so to speak, when you're too slow that the AI just thinks "Sod it they're never going to catch us, let's keep going at full performance".

It was also interesting that they didn't exhibit this behaviour when using a lower PP car but did with an equal PP car running on slower rubber.

 

[NCRthree]

Thanks Samus for spending the time with all your research here. Nice to see actual data used. Confirms what I've experienced which makes GT's career lacking.

What works best for more competitive driving/"racing" vs AI is simple. Infinite lap count in single player which KamilCader mentioned. This eliminates the most annoying AI aspect: slowing up for the player toward race end. Granted there's no credit reward or satisfaction of beating a particular event. However I've had my absolute best offline "racing" in GT6 by simply hitting "Infinite".

The lead AI's will simply not give up this way. I've even experienced passed AI that will speed up after some time and give chase, not backing down whatsoever. This was really surprising to me, completely different than career mode. A full rear view mirror lap after lap with no room for error. Also, lead AI that continues to build it's lead and is impossible to catch. Heck I've been lapped by a faster car in long runs. It would be interesting to make note of the AI's lap times with this variable.

I don't have a problem making my own lap or time limit. Or handicapping my car with ballast or less grippy tires. What I enjoy is taking a stock road car and driving it for a much longer period of time than the typical quick 5 lap dash. Getting to know the feel of a stock vehicle.

 

[KamilCader]

Ive played alot and studied the behaviour of the AI in the Forza series from 1 to 4, and I think that the counterpart in GT6 in terms of reacting for dynamic changes on track like avoiding, overtaking is equal or even better than Forza's. In my opinion, creating an unbeatable AI or the one with the racing pace experienced in the infinite single race isnt a hard thing to do for PD, but the truth is that most of their customers are casuals or are slightly interested in automotive culture who would be easly frustrated by too long or imposible to win races. People who want more challenging racing must ask PD to give them an option to disable the handicap algorythm completly and reduce the strenght of slipstreaming, because I dont see any other serious issues with the AI itself comparing to the one in Forza or even Codemasters F1 series.

 

[LVracerGT]

Unfortunately all I've gotten from this thread is evidence of another half-assed feature implemented into GT6, the whole freaking game is unfinished. The tire model is beta, the suspension model is beta, the "new" AI is beta, the new lighting model is beta, the online is borderline alpha.

Good thing GT6 was released at full price and over-hyped with all the features that still haven't been added and what is is the game can hardly be called consumer ready.

 

[Samus]

Ive played alot and studied the behaviour of the AI in the Forza series from 1 to 4, and I think that the counterpart in GT6 in terms of reacting for dynamic changes on track like avoiding, overtaking is equal or even better than Forza's. In my opinion, creating an unbeatable AI or the one with the racing pace experienced in the infinite single race isnt a hard thing to do for PD, but the truth is that most of their customers are casuals or are slightly interested in automotive culture who would be easly frustrated by too long or imposible to win races. People who want more challenging racing must ask PD to give them an option to disable the handicap algorythm completly and reduce the strenght of slipstreaming, because I dont see any other serious issues with the AI itself comparing to the one in Forza or even Codemasters F1 series.

That is why you have difficulty levels. Of course one difficulty level that is very high is just as bad as one difficulty level that is too easy.

 

[KamilCader]

That is why you have difficulty levels. Of course one difficulty level that is very high is just as bad as one difficulty level that is too easy.

What kind of difficulty level would appeal to you, because I think that nonhandicapped AI and weakened slipstream effect would be enough for 99% of gamers. There is no serious problem with the AI's reaction on the racing conditions ( of course, there will always be some bugs in certain situations ), the solution I see is to ask PD for the options I've mentioned via update. If the community will specify exactly what they want regarding the AI behaviour, I'm sure it wouldn't be a big deal for PD to do.

 

[Samus]

What kind of difficulty level would appeal to you, because I think that nonhandicapped AI and weakened slipstream effect would be enough for 99% of gamers. There is no serious problem with the AI's reaction on the racing conditions ( of course, there will always be some bugs in certain situations ), the solution I see is to ask PD for the options I've mentioned via update. If the community will specify exactly what they want regarding the AI behaviour, I'm sure it wouldn't be a big deal for PD to do.

I already outlined the four main areas of improvement, obviously for the next game, not GT6 patching.

1. Removing all forms of rubberbanding/AI slowing/speeding up on purpose
2. Removing the staggered start, either add standing starts or realistic double file rolling starts
3. Adding some difficulty levels, perhaps two more above the current one and two below. Certainly at least one either way.
4. Make sure all AI cars are equal and as close to the race PP limits as possible

Just doing point 1 wouldn't help much, nor will changing the slipstream effect make a big difference.

 

[CSLACR]

I already outlined the four main areas of improvement, obviously for the next game, not GT6 patching.

1. Removing all forms of rubberbanding/AI slowing/speeding up on purpose
2. Removing the staggered start, either add standing starts or realistic double file rolling starts
3. Adding some difficulty levels, perhaps two more above the current one and two below. Certainly at least one either way.
4. Make sure all AI cars are equal and as close to the race PP limits as possible

Just doing point 1 wouldn't help much, nor will changing the slipstream effect make a big difference.

This has been on players lists for at least a decade now, it's just not on Kaz's list.

 

[Johnnypenso]

What kind of difficulty level would appeal to you, because I think that nonhandicapped AI and weakened slipstream effect would be enough for 99% of gamers. There is no serious problem with the AI's reaction on the racing conditions ( of course, there will always be some bugs in certain situations ), the solution I see is to ask PD for the options I've mentioned via update. If the community will specify exactly what they want regarding the AI behaviour, I'm sure it wouldn't be a big deal for PD to do.

As is mentioned above, these changes desired by the community are well known and have been around for years, and yet the AI is worse than ever and the worst in all sim racing as far as I know. Obviously to this point, PD has no interest in developing a challenging offline career with adjustable difficulty so it can appeal to beginners and veterans alike. They've chosen to appeal to beginners only and I think it's cost them a great many veterans with a dumbed down career mode and dumbed down AI.

 

[KamilCader]

I already outlined the four main areas of improvement, obviously for the next game, not GT6 patching.

1. Removing all forms of rubberbanding/AI slowing/speeding up on purpose
2. Removing the staggered start, either add standing starts or realistic double file rolling starts
3. Adding some difficulty levels, perhaps two more above the current one and two below. Certainly at least one either way.
4. Make sure all AI cars are equal and as close to the race PP limits as possible

Just doing point 1 wouldn't help much, nor will changing the slipstream effect make a big difference.

Why not ask for the patch since it is possible and easy (I think) to do? You dont know when the next GT game will be released so... there is nothing to lose if community will ask for it. As for the staggered start it is a choice of the game designers in order to keep the framerate steady as much as possible, imagine a pack of cars taking the "S" chicanes on bathurst where the game already have problems with framerate even on time trials. Its an issue to be solved by the PS4 perfomance, you're right there.
As for the point 3; as far as I know in GT5 there were two sliders, one for the AI difficulty and one for its agressiveness, i think it would do the thing.
4. There are already races where AI have equal or silimar cars. In forza 4 carrer cars were tuned to the max PI limit, its not a bad idea but with poor AI or handicap it wont make any difference.
Slipstreaming gives you too big advantage currently, because even if you are making mistakes on corners you can catch opponent easly on straights. Most overtaking manuveurs are being made at the begining or in the middle of the straights while in the reality slipstreaming helps aproach the other car and overtake during braking at the end of the straight.

 

[Johnnypenso]

Why not ask for the patch since it is possible and easy (I think) to do? You dont know when the next GT game will be released so... there is nothing to lose if community will ask for it. As for the staggered start it is a choice of the game designers in order to keep the framerate steady as much as possible, imagine a pack of cars taking the "S" chicanes on bathurst where the game already have problems with framerate even on time trials. Its an issue to be solved by the PS4 perfomance, you're right there.
As for the point 3; as far as I know in GT5 there were two sliders, one for the AI difficulty and one for its agressiveness, i think it would do the thing.
4. There are already races where AI have equal or silimar cars. In forza 4 carrer cars were tuned to the max PI limit, its not a bad idea but with poor AI or handicap it wont make any difference.
Slipstreaming gives you too big advantage currently, because even if you are making mistakes on corners you can catch opponent easly on straights. Most overtaking manuveurs are being made at the begining or in the middle of the straights while in the reality slipstreaming helps aproach the other car and overtake during braking at the end of the straight.

As I said above, these things have been talked about in this community and others for years and years, it's nothing new. If PD pays any attention whatsoever to these boards, they will already be aware of our discontent and they've chosen to ignore it so far.

If you look here https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/board/features.341/?order=first_post_likes and sort by likes, you'll see standing starts, better AI, AI difficulty etc. all on the first page.

 

[KamilCader]

As is mentioned above, these changes desired by the community are well known and have been around for years, and yet the AI is worse than ever and the worst in all sim racing as far as I know. Obviously to this point, PD has no interest in developing a challenging offline career with adjustable difficulty so it can appeal to beginners and veterans alike. They've chosen to appeal to beginners only and I think it's cost them a great many veterans with a dumbed down career mode and dumbed down AI.

Most developers think that they just need to do their thing (the one that will sell the most copies of game), because the community or so called "veterans" dont know what exacly they want from the series. Of course, there are many other issues like engine sounds ect. but regarding the AI, as I stated above, its the easiest thing for PD to do if the community will specify that they want "An option to disable the AI handicap completly, at least in single race mode" and "option to weaken slipsteraming, at least in single race mode". I'm sure they are observing that forum because they fixed many problems that casual players wouldnt even notice or care about and they were pointed here. I mean, stating that community want "A better AI" isnt specific enough for developers.

 

[Johnnypenso]

Most developers think that they just need to do their thing (the one that will sell the most copies of game), because the community or so called "veterans" dont know what exacly they want from the series. Of course, there are many other issues like engine sounds ect. but regarding the AI, as I stated above, its the easiest thing for PD to do if the community will specify that they want "An option to disable the AI handicap completly, at least in single race mode" and "option to weaken slipsteraming, at least in single race mode". I'm sure they are observing that forum because they fixed many problems that casual players wouldnt even notice or care about and they were pointed here. I mean, stating that community want "A better AI" isnt specific enough for developers.

This has been discussed at great length over and over and over. The AI was better and the difficulty was scalable in earlier versions of the game, versions which sold 10+Million copies, compared to just over 2 million so far for GT6. No offense, but if you think making very specific requests for improvement is going to mean anything gets done by PD you're dreaming, they don't work that way, or we wouldn't have the jumbled mess we have now.

Look at this list again: https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/board/features.341/?order=first_post_likes

This is the place where the community discusses specific changes they'd like to see. If you sort by likes, on the first page 2 things have been dealt with (off course traction control and copy/paste in the tuning menu) but one was already fine when introduced (TC) then nerfed in an update, then changed back. The other was already a feature in GT5, and they nerfed it on launch, then fixed it.

So neither one was technically an improvement at all, just fixing what they broke to begin with. Most of the rest of the list is stuff that we've been asking for for years, or stuff that was already in the game and taken away.

 

[KamilCader]

This has been discussed at great length over and over and over. The AI was better and the difficulty was scalable in earlier versions of the game, versions which sold 10+Million copies, compared to just over 2 million so far for GT6. No offense, but if you think making very specific requests for improvement is going to mean anything gets done by PD you're dreaming, they don't work that way, or we wouldn't have the jumbled mess we have now.

Look at this list again: https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/board/features.341/?order=first_post_likes

This is the place where the community discusses specific changes they'd like to see. If you sort by likes, on the first page 2 things have been dealt with (off course traction control and copy/paste in the tuning menu) but one was already fine when introduced (TC) then nerfed in an update, then changed back. The other was already a feature in GT5, and they nerfed it on launch, then fixed it.

So neither one was technically an improvement at all, just fixing what they broke to begin with. Most of the rest of the list is stuff that we've been asking for for years, or stuff that was already in the game and taken away.

If you think i'm dreaming then what is the point in that features request subforum?
I'm trying to give a specific, real and doable solution to make a better, competetive AI because in fact, there is nothing wrong whith it expect the handicap problem. TC off road and copy/paste were very specific requests and they were solved. If the community tell that they want handicap turned of in single race at least, it is also very specific and possible to do. As for the slipstream there is already an option for it in online lobbies, am I right?

 

[Roosta]

I hadn't played GT6 in a couple a months, basically since I found out about Assetto Corsa, but today I started my playstation and drove a couple of hours around Silverstone. I have to say that I am really impressed with what PD managed to create with our ancient hardware, but I already know that I will not come back to GT. And the reason why I won't play this game anymore has nothing to do with the ps3 limitations, so the ps4 is not the solution. My biggest problem with the game is the frustrating rubberbanding and the inability to create my own custom races. These two features are extremely easy to implement, but 17 years later we continue waiting. I finally understood that I was looking in the wrong place. PD has a target audience and I am not one of them. GT7 will come with gorgeous graphics and maybe decent engine sounds, but this time I'll enjoy those fantastic replays in youtube.

 

[Gwenbors]

I can't say this across the board, but does anybody else feel like the AI has improved a little bit lately? I'm basing this pretty much just off of some recent experiences in the Brands Hatch mini-enduro in the S-class, but they actually felt a bit cleaner in dueling for position than they used to. (Granted, I still got PIT-maneuvered at one point, but I think it was an accident, and still, it felt cleaner to me).

As for the demands that PD remove rubber-banding, no offense but that's stupid. They could scale it back a bit, I guess, but remove it completely and you'll end up with either the stupid Miuras from GT5 or no competition at all, depending on the skill of the driver and the luck of the field selection. If there was a way that they could fix it a bit, that'd be nice, but removing it completely would just lead to a whole new round of complaints from players who couldn't lose or couldn't win.

 

[Lewis_Hamilton_]

I've mentioned this before elsewhere, it is a different situation to the experiments going on here but it may still be relevent to the discussion.

Take a car that is much lower in PP than the rest of the field at the SSRX Like the Wind event, yet still has a decent top speed. You can find plenty of cars that are well below 600pp (and even 550pp) that will slipstream above 250mph. If you watch in the replay from the other AI's perspective with the instruments on (the road cars, as the race cars all top out), you will see that along the 2nd straight, the AI's speed will suddenly jump or drop 10mph depending on your position without them ever lifting off the throttle. You'll also notice that if you are side by side with two AI cars, you can all be travelling at the same pace, but each speedometer will read a different output, or vice versa, each of you could have the same registered speed, but someone will be pulling away and another falling behind.

In other words, it's just like the boost feature online; the game breaks the laws of physics to rubberband the pack.

 

[KamilCader]

As for the demands that PD remove rubber-banding, no offense but that's stupid. They could scale it back a bit, I guess, but remove it completely and you'll end up with either the stupid Miuras from GT5 or no competition at all, depending on the skill of the driver and the luck of the field selection. If there was a way that they could fix it a bit, that'd be nice, but removing it completely would just lead to a whole new round of complaints from players who couldn't lose or couldn't win.

All I want is to give players an option to make the game as difficult as they want and I doubt anyone would complain. I believe it is doable and worth asking for in the future updates. All that is needed to make a better AI offline races some people are asking for.

I've mentioned this before elsewhere, it is a different situation to the experiments going on here but it may still be relevent to the discussion.

Take a car that is much lower in PP than the rest of the field at the SSRX Like the Wind event, yet still has a decent top speed. You can find plenty of cars that are well below 600pp (and even 550pp) that will slipstream above 250mph. If you watch in the replay from the other AI's perspective with the instruments on (the road cars, as the race cars all top out), you will see that along the 2nd straight, the AI's speed will suddenly jump or drop 10mph depending on your position without them ever lifting off the throttle. You'll also notice that if you are side by side with two AI cars, you can all be travelling at the same pace, but each speedometer will read a different output, or vice versa, each of you could have the same registered speed, but someone will be pulling away and another falling behind.

In other words, it's just like the boost feature online; the game breaks the laws of physics to rubberband the pack.

Exacly, that is the handicap algorythm I want PD to make an option to disable. Notice that if you follow closely any AI car from the back or middle of the field, you'll eventualy see an unnatural drops in their speed in order to let you pass, and they dont even use brakes or pull of throttle.

 

[diegorborges]

This is a video from a nice behavior from the AI I've seen last night. Like I said, the Willow and Ascari races at S Class are where I found most fun to race at. Even using powerful cars, it gets fun because the AI sometimes just act in a random way. Probably because of tire wear, etc. But they can pull some pretty interesting moves.



The Pagani really wants to win, even after doing a mistake it gets back to the pack and pass some of them. This Pagani got second in this race and the rest of the cars were not that slower. Can it be "the rabbit" of that race?

Notice how the AI handle the space well between them and do the passes nicely.

Why we can't have this kind of AI everywhere in GT? The example above is not spectacular but it shows the AI can handle a bit more power. And some more care choosing the right set of cars for the races could improve it. Like the stupid case of the Fiat 500 thay could be easily lapped.

And we desperately need an event generator like it was ob GT PSP. It was perfect and the races could be really hard.

 

[KamilCader]

This is a video from a nice behavior from the AI I've seen last night. Like I said, the Willow and Ascari races at S Class are where I found most fun to race at. Even using powerful cars, it gets fun because the AI sometimes just act in a random way. Probably because of tire wear, etc. But they can pull some pretty interesting moves.

The Pagani really wants to win, even after doing a mistake it gets back to the pack and pass some of them. This Pagani got second in this race and the rest of the cars were not that slower. Can it be "the rabbit" of that race?

Notice how the AI handle the space well between them and do the passes nicely.

Why we can't have this kind of AI everywhere in GT? The example above is not spectacular but it shows the AI can handle a bit more power. And some more care choosing the right set of cars for the races could improve it. Like the stupid case of the Fiat 500 thay could be easily lapped.

And we desperately need an event generator like it was ob GT PSP. It was perfect and the races could be really hard.

Read my posts, this is exacly what I mentioned, the AI itself is already decent but is being slowed down by the handicap system with is turned down in the S class events.

 

[Samus]

Why not ask for the patch since it is possible and easy (I think) to do? You dont know when the next GT game will be released so... there is nothing to lose if community will ask for it.

Not being funny but are you new to the GT community? People have asked for, amongst numerous others, better AI for years and PD just haven't done anything about it. Asking is all we can do but it's unlikely PD will listen.

As for the staggered start it is a choice of the game designers in order to keep the framerate steady as much as possible, imagine a pack of cars taking the "S" chicanes on bathurst where the game already have problems with framerate even on time trials. Its an issue to be solved by the PS4 perfomance, you're right there.

Which quite frankly is just poor planning/game design. If you have to manipulate your game to maintain performance then there has been a serious miscalculation somewhere. Obviously with GT5 and GT6 it's far too late to sort now, the big decisions are already made but yes, I don't want to see this same problem on PS4.

As for the point 3; as far as I know in GT5 there were two sliders, one for the AI difficulty and one for its agressiveness, i think it would do the thing.

For arcade mode, yes. It doesn't affect career mode.

4. There are already races where AI have equal or silimar cars. In forza 4 carrer cars were tuned to the max PI limit, its not a bad idea but with poor AI or handicap it wont make any difference.

Yes, but usually only one or two cars. Except the same make/series races I've not seen any races in GT6 where every AI had a car capable of winning the race.

Slipstreaming gives you too big advantage currently, because even if you are making mistakes on corners you can catch opponent easly on straights. Most overtaking manuveurs are being made at the begining or in the middle of the straights while in the reality slipstreaming helps aproach the other car and overtake during braking at the end of the straight.

It does, yes. Slipstream and aero in general has been pretty bad since GT5.

As for the demands that PD remove rubber-banding, no offense but that's stupid. They could scale it back a bit, I guess, but remove it completely and you'll end up with either the stupid Miuras from GT5 or no competition at all, depending on the skill of the driver and the luck of the field selection. If there was a way that they could fix it a bit, that'd be nice, but removing it completely would just lead to a whole new round of complaints from players who couldn't lose or couldn't win.

I did mention that just carrying out one fix wouldn't solve the problem, rather it's a combination of several fixes. Yes if all you did was remove the rubberbanding but nothing else races would still be bad because of the staggered starts/rabbits.

However, put all the cars on the grid together, with an even chance of winning, no rubberbanding and adjustable performance and you've got about as good as it'll get. I mean, it's how the real world works and how other games like F1/Shift/etc work, why can't it work in GT? Like I said it's not rocket science. The only thing stopping it happening is PD.

 

[KamilCader]

Yes, I am new here but I'm aware that some people here have been asking for many things for years. Read my other posts so you will see my point of view more clearly. Turning off the handicap completly wont fix the problem with saggered starts but still it would make races more challenging just like the "infinite number of laps" single race or the S class endurance series( to some degree in that case ).