Caterham Fireblade is a little underwhelming...

  • Thread starter MockngBrd
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entropy731
The caterham is very underwhelming. This poor performance really takes the fun out of it. Suzuki GSX-4 really fits the niche role in a much more enjoyable, and capable way.
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I'm a big fan of Caterham's and Westfield's in real life but the fireblade is not good. The GSX/4 on the other hand is now my favourite car in the game and a true giant killer.
 
The car should accelerate at least triple as fast 0-60, it takes like 6 seconds in the game because it doesnt want to be torquey enough feeling.
 
There's a feeling with all low-powered cars that the drivetrain has too much inertia, such that most of the power goes into spinning the engine up (try blipping the throttle and see how long it takes to peg it!).

Add to this the gear ratios are probably too tall by a factor of about 3/2, possibly because the counter-shaft's step-down isn't being accounted for in the game. The stock final drive is accurate, however.
Assuming the next update brings fully customisable gear ratios, and the 3/2 thing is accurate, these would be closer to the real-life ratios (within about 10%):

1st.....4.154
2nd.....3.000
3rd.....2.367
4th.....2.100
5th.....1.875
6th.....1.760
Final...3.270

Giving a top speed of just under 133 mph or 214 km/hr (the top speed setting over-estimates at the moment.)
Note that the 6-speed close ratio (and, for now, "fully custom") box change the relative ratios, and are not comparable to the stock overlaps etc. The ratios above should be considerably more sprightly than the stock settings!
 
When I first got hyped about gt5 this was what I had in mind: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sxwRgSZiKTk

Sadly it's just not going to happen. The physics are great but just not quite enough for a car like the caterham. The technique of very slight throttle adjustments to slide the thing carefully around corners just doesn't work in this game and so it just doesn't feel as great as I was expecting. Also I would've loved to have the r500 instead of the fireblade.

If you want a real caterham simulator try LX4 in Live For Speed.
 
Thats exactly what's wrong with the car, the engine has WAY too much inertia, it should spin 0-13k back to 0 in like 2 seconds, the real life car accelerates 0-60 in less then 3 seconds stock yet my fully tuned caterham on racing softs dropping the clutch at max rpm takes over 7 seconds to hit 100 km/hr! The car needs to be WAAAY quicker then it is. It should easily be capable of 1 minute top gear track times.
 
Another reminder as people seem to be losing sight of this, not all Caterhams are the same! The Fireblade indeed has a bike engine and is nowhere near as quick as the R500 etc, so of course it's not going to compare. It's a shame some of the faster models aren't in the game, granted, but put SS tyres on and it's a blast. Try it in the new FR seasonals, it owns the rest and they are way more powerful. Just drive clean and keep those revs up :)
 
Tyger
Another reminder as people seem to be losing sight of this, not all Caterhams are the same! The Fireblade indeed has a bike engine and is nowhere near as quick as the R500 etc, so of course it's not going to compare. It's a shame some of the faster models aren't in the game, granted, but put SS tyres on and it's a blast. Try it in the new FR seasonals, it owns the rest and they are way more powerful. Just drive clean and keep those revs up :)
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Yes, but 0-60 in less than four seconds is not slow. The fireblade in the game is slow to get going, comparatively - I couldn't get under 7 seconds, even with the 6-speed close ratio box. Keeping the revs up is definitely necessary for racing and is easier with the lower ratios, naturally.

All small, lightweight cars (in particular, those with small, lightweight, low-displacement engines) have serious issues with drivetrain inertia in GT5. The Fireblade also happens to have gear ratios that are too tall, just to compound the effect.
 
Griffith500
Yes, but 0-60 in less than four seconds is not slow. The fireblade in the game is slow to get going, comparatively - I couldn't get under 7 seconds, even with the 6-speed close ratio box. Keeping the revs up is definitely necessary for racing and is easier with the lower ratios, naturally.

All small, lightweight cars (in particular, those with small, lightweight, low-displacement engines) have serious issues with drivetrain inertia in GT5. The Fireblade also happens to have gear ratios that are too tall, just to compound the effect.
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I didn't think the Fireblade was anything like that quick anyway, thought the R500, Superlight etc were the only ones sub-4 seconds, my mistake then, I will look up the figures. Thought the Fireblade would be about 5 or 6 secs, historically there have been many Sevens that are cheaper, less powerful, and slower than the top of the range models, but still very quick, and awesome fun.
 
Yup I stand corrected, couldn't find the spec on Caterham's site as not a current model, but another site says 3.8 seconds...it also said there are six speeds in forward and reverse, but I think in GT5 there are three, or four at the most? Odd...
 
Tyger
Yup I stand corrected, couldn't find the spec on Caterham's site as not a current model, but another site says 3.8 seconds...it also said there are six speeds in forward and reverse, but I think in GT5 there are three, or four at the most? Odd...
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There are six gears in GT5, but the stock gearing is good for 200 mph! :eek:
It's basically the engine and gearbox off the Fireblade motorcycle, since they're almost always cast as an integral unit, like a lot of FWD / compact MR packages are. Motorcycles generally don't have reverse gears, hence Caterham must have "added" one after the box itself, which would be why there are six forward and reverse gears! :P
 
When you get the Super7 please, do not forget to change the oil, to rebuild the engine and chassis.

Suddenly when you tune it... It does dive under 7 seconds 0 to 60...
 
I love it, when I 1st got it the gearing is a little strange, plus being a bike engine it revs forever. In stock form I was a little underwhelmed I live near Caterham and know the cars are like pocket rockets. The back end is extremely easy to slip and you have to really feed the power in coming out of most turns.

I had to beef the power up to give a better representation of how these things really go. Defiantly is a better car with full transmission added, I use it loads and in the turns it is untouchable, in long straights it lacks top end, and needs more torque to pull through the gears.

Take it to Suzuka and race some muscle cars and some Rufs, dances around them all in the corners, this is when you see how good the car is. Would be so good if more of the range of Caterhams were in GT especially the 500.

I have a max'd out Speed 12 it pulls like a trojan yet around twisty tracks the little blade lap times are as quick and far more consistent, and overall much more fun.
 
IN GT4, you were able to place balast weight to balance a car. If you added 100kg to the weight of the car (in the center), it really transformed the caterham from memory. 350kg (or whatever the car is) is just too light. Unrealistically light as its impossible for a car to weight this little.
 
Tyger
Try it in the new FR seasonals, it owns the rest and they are way more powerful. Just drive clean and keep those revs up :)
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The Alfa Zagato (that you win from the B-Spec Historic Cup) is also tons of super-light fun in the FR seasonals. 620kg and around 170 hp off the top of my head. Drives like it's on rails using Racing Hards. Also the engine sound is totally crazy!
 
andymidnite
The Alfa Zagato (that you win from the B-Spec Historic Cup) is also tons of super-light fun in the FR seasonals. 620kg and around 170 hp off the top of my head. Drives like it's on rails using Racing Hards. Also the engine sound is totally crazy!
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Seconded, I tried that too and was first somewhere into the second lap, couldn't believe that little car, had never tried it til then :)
 
TheToad263
I quite like the fireblade... put racing softs on it and tune it all the way to max HP and its actually a pretty quick car...
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I think the core issue here is that I shouldn't have to tune the bajeepers out of it to make it a quick car... it ought to be that way out of the box!
 
There are 3 problems with the way the Caterham is represented in GT5:
It is geared about 40% higher than it should be because PD didn't take into account the primary reduction ratio.
Gear changes should be nearly instantaneous (think Ferrari speedS) and they very much are not.
The engine revs far too slowly, feeling more like a crappy economy car engine than the bike engine that it is.

In real life, the car is not as fast as the Caterham R500 that was on Top Gear. However, it isn't that far off, and 4 second 0-60 times shouldn't be much of an issue for it.


XPLOSV
350kg (or whatever the car is) is just too light. Unrealistically light as its impossible for a car to weight this little.
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The specs are wrong, but in real life the car still only weighed about 380-400kg.
 
Toronado
The specs are wrong, but in real life the car still only weighed about 380-400kg.
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The GT4 version (of which this is the same I expect) was modelled from the real car built by Richard Meaden in EVO magazine back in the day. He even used a CF steering wheel... I seem to recall that the thing weighed 360+kg, but I'll need to check. There was an article in the mag at the time just before GT4 was launched (remember that?)...

EDIT: No doubt there's probably a thread about it in the GT4 forum...
 
SergioRZ
The power/weight ratio should make the car FEEL much faster in the game. But no... it feels slow and not fun at all to drive.
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This. Tried a stock Fireblade in the British Lightweight Cup the other night. It felt so much slower than expected! Almost like driving a big luxury vehicle!
 
Toronado
There are 3 problems with the way the Caterham is represented in GT5:
  1. It is geared about 40% higher than it should be because PD didn't take into account the primary reduction ratio.
  2. Gear changes should be nearly instantaneous (think Ferrari speedS) and they very much are not.
  3. The engine revs far too slowly, feeling more like a crappy economy car engine than the bike engine that it is.
...
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2 is caused by 3, in the way that GT5 handles gear changes. Its been improved slightly from GT4, but it still shows up on cars like this.
Using a H-shifter and clutch, you can force the gear before it's matched, but the clutch just drags in a really weird way and doesn't transmit the power it should.

Since we can "fix" point 1, it's point 3 that needs the most attention at this stage, because it affects many other cars.
 
Carlos Fandango
The GT4 version (of which this is the same I expect) was modelled from the real car built by Richard Meaden in EVO magazine back in the day. He even used a CF steering wheel... I seem to recall that the thing weighed 360+kg, but I'll need to check. There was an article in the mag at the time just before GT4 was launched (remember that?)...

EDIT: No doubt there's probably a thread about it in the GT4 forum...
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Hi all

I'm one of the lucky owners of this car (sorry for my english, i'm french)

you say right, the GT4/5 model is based on Richard meaden's car, which is a *little* tuned.

his car is lightest and more powerfull than the stock one.
it's weight 369kg (400kg at stock without the cage roll-bar, composite seats and any sort of conmfort device) and have more than 160BHP (125 at stock)
It can be obtain by using carbon fiber and lightweight parts (aluminium, totanium, etc ... )

the car has 6 gears to go front, and 6 gears to go back.
It need a "reverser" (you can see it on the nova-racing web site).

with the original transmission, the power can't be in excess of 150BHP (because of the live-axle transmission) ... so the game's possibility are not possible in real life.
 
Yesterday I finally obtained a Caterham Fireblade.
I can finally confirm that the engine revs up too slowly!
Try comparing the in-game behavior with the engine start-up audio clip when you select the car!
In the audio clip it takes a short throttle blip to bring engine rpm to the redline in no time (a few tenths of seconds).
In-game, it takes forever, roughly around 2.5-3 seconds.

PD should fix this. The car is broken.
 
I find the thing pretty confusing. The engine revving is unexpectedly slow, the gearing is far too high, and for a super-featherweight car it handles very sluggishly. Acceleration and braking are insane in real life, but in the game there's not a hint of wheel spin, none of that Jack Russell-like attitude. It should drive like a large go-kart.

I don't say any of this with much authority, bear in mind, since I've never driven one in real life, but I have watched them race many times.
 
After driving a Cateram 7 Superlight at a track day in November 2009 I was very excited to drive this Fireblade, to my disappointment it was absolutely nothing like the car I drove in the real. I know it's not the same model & that it has a motorcycle engine ect, but even on Comfort Softs it had about as much character as a wet sponge! The one I drove at the track day was on slicks & it wriggled about a lot with plenty of easily to control power oversteer, the stock Fireblade in GT5 had none whatsoever, unless I deliberately steered & accelerated like a maniac to induce it, not at all impressed.


:grumpy:👎
 
oppositelock
The degree to which you enjoy this car is directly proportional to your tuning ability. I find it fantastic.
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The point is that it should perform better stock. One shouldn't need to add parts or tune to make the car feel the way it should right off the factory floor. The engine feels like it was lifted from a cruise ship not a bike.
 
freedomweasel
The point is that it should perform better stock. One shouldn't need to add parts or tune to make the car feel the way it should right off the factory floor. The engine feels like it was lifted from a cruise ship not a bike.
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Big deal, PD botched the gearing. They do it all the time, look at the SRT-4 for example. In about the time it takes to read a three page thread whining about it you can fix it yourself. A Greek tragedy it is not.
 

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