Damage on all cars confirmed by IGN

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Simple SIM
This news is all sorts of MEH

We started out with the damage model that was shown for the Impreza. The impressions from that damage model were universally negative. Now they are telling us that all the cars will have damage ( sounds great for split second ) but then there is a HUGE "but" after that and then they tell us that the rest of the cars will have damage modeling but it will be even worse than the Impreze damage model?!?!

Good lord. What are they thinking? :ouch:

I'm starting to think that no damage model at all would be better than a half assed one.

I am interested to find out how well/accurate the mechanical damage is.


It also seems pretty clear that they have delayed the game due to all the criticism.

I hope polyphony can pull this one off in the end because right now it's not lookin so good.
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Well if the damage system was finished they would be releasing the game shortly wouldn't they? But instead they're taking 6 months between now and release to improve it, which has been officially confirmed now.

Now granted, they could spend the next 6 months with their thumbs up their asses, but they could also genuinely improve it as they seem very eager to tell people.

Realisticly? I'm not expecting some major technical advancement between now and release, however I suspect that in the next 6 months PD will most likely accomplish the following:

-Better paint scratches. Not tiny hard-to-see ones, but much larger ones where after scraping a wall, you can see much larger chunks of paint missing. This alone would be a huge leap forward visually and most likely have the biggest impact on players, since the mechanical damage is pretty well done already by player accounts.

-Crumpling. I'd only expect this on the race cars like the Subaru, but I think the next goal in 6 months for them is to probably get it so bumpers deform. Not really any need with doors/hood if they improve paint scratches, but front/rear bumpers need to be deformable, and able to fall off vehicles.

Visually I'd say those 2 things are all that Polyphony Digital needs to do really.
 
I really hope they use this time to drastically upgrade the damage model. I also hope they come to their sense and implement THE SAME damage model for all cars.

Right now this is what we have.....

"Premium" Damage model

-No deformation ( even though it was shown in the E3 concept vid )
-minor paint scratches
-bumpers that come lose at one end but do not fall off and are not actually damaged in any way. Just lose on one end.
-doors and hoods that pop up. But it looks rather comical and how is an open door or hood even "damage"? It's not. I open the doors on my car every day, that's not damage.


"Standard" Damage model

-minor paint scratches



As far as the mechanical damage goes we don't know much at all, but so far the mechanical damage doesn't seem very realistic but is present to some degree.


I think it's very possible that no damage model at all would draw fewer complaints from reviewers than a poor uneven damage model.
 
SuperCobraJet
I think the following, or in combination is more likely:

In trying to make sense out of these recent release developements, going back to E3 when I first began to strongly expect this was going to be the case, many possibilities, pros, cons, considerations, etc. are involved. I have finally concluded what I believe has shaped this scenario.

As we all know, The Holiday season is "the" prime time of the year for game and console sales, particularly in the large markets of the West . That being the case, and GT5 being very likely to be releasable by this years coming season, I believe tremendous pressure was likely brought to bear on Sony from the game publishers, developers, etc. that they did not want to have to compete against one of their heaviest hitters, namely GT5, during that seasonal market. Accordingly, Sony bowed to the pressure counting on the strength of the GT series to overcome and still dominate during the spring season. Hence you have GTPSP currently at the for-front, consuming PD resources and relegating GT5 to March 2010.

This is the only reasonble explanation I can concieve of for this strategy.
Unfortunately, as a result, Kaz as well as the GT5 faithful are put in the unenviable position of having to "take one for the team", as it were.
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Combination of factors is a good idea. Altough Jordan, Famine or Amar never told us, i was 99,9% sure the release date would be between november 25th and december 5th. After reading your post, i started wondering about a possible chat between Kazunori Yamauchi and Kaz Hirai:

KH - "Kazunori my man... it's riiiiiidge racer!"
KY - "(laughs) Sup chief? What's up?"

KH - "Listen, how's GT5? Is it ready to go?"
KY - "Sure, like we promissed, we can release it at any point... and it will be december like you always wanted..."

KH - "Yeah... about that... some of our partners are afraid to go head to head with GT5... plus, we want to focus heavily on GT PSP... also, God of War III will only be out in april, and since Heavy Rain is due on february... we kind of have a proposal for you...
KY - "I'm listening, go ahead chief"

KH - "Do we have weather?"
KY - "Not yet, working to put it as a patch. Right now just the same old wet stages"

KH - "Is the damage still the transformer thing from gamescon?"
KY - "Visually yes, but mechanically is pretty good"

KH - "Can you put weather in and work on the damage in say... six months?"
KY - "Well, yeah... that's a good time frame, we almost had the code finished, but we can work on that. To be honest, i'm glad to have that extra time".

KH - "That's my boy... so march 2010, we're set?"
KY - "Absolutely... i just don't know if we're going to have the same impact..."

KH - "Don't worry man, we shipped GT3 in the middle of the year and that didn't hurt us... we want the public reception to be perfect, GT has to stay a league above our competitors, let's make sure of that".
KY - "Since we're postponing, does that mean we will throw that extra money to get that manufactor from Stuttgart in? I mean, i have the cars modelled already..."

KH - "Don't push it man, don't push it. See you later champ"
KY - "I was just testing my luck... See ya".

I know, i'm just making stuff up, but it would be funny if the conversation went along like this...
 
TorqueHappenS08
No more pretty shiny car's... :indiff:
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If you are part of the no damage crowd you have nothing to worry about. There will be an option to turn damage off completely if you so choose.

Just out of curiosity has it been firmly established that atleast at one point the plan WAS for a 2009 release date and that a "delay" has infact occurred?

And if there really was a conscious decision to delay the game was it actually "just" because of the damage model, or do they still have other work to do aswell?
 
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Tapey
Well if the damage system was finished they would be releasing the game shortly wouldn't they? But instead they're taking 6 months between now and release to improve it, which has been officially confirmed now.
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Remembre the delay from the expected dec release and the march is only about 3 months and the last few months before release have to be used for testing, pressing and shipping.

Now granted, they could spend the next 6 months with their thumbs up their asses, but they could also genuinely improve it as they seem very eager to tell people.

Visually I'd say those 2 things are all that Polyphony Digital needs to do really.
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It's only my opinion but I think they should have left it with some cars no damage if it could have meant a sooner release... I men we still don't have the same damage across all cars and while scratches and scuffs are nice, they amount to minor eye candy and as long as all cars have mechanical damage, seems frivolous.

Simple SIM
Just out of curiosity has it been firmly established that atleast at one point the plan WAS for a 2009 release date and that a "delay" has infact occurred?

And if there really was a conscious decision to delay the game was it actually "just" because of the damage model, or do they still have other work to do aswell?
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Depends what you mean by confirmed... so far as I can tell neither PD nor Sony has officiall released a statement as such, but everything points to it originall having been a 2009 release and according to Jordan GTP received documents saying as much.

I call that confirmed...
 
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Simple SIM
If you are part of the no damage crowd you have nothing to worry about. There will be an option to turn damage off completely if you so choose.

Just out of curiosity has it been firmly established that atleast at one point the plan WAS for a 2009 release date and that a "delay" has infact occurred?

And if there really was a conscious decision to delay the game was it actually "just" because of the damage model, or do they still have other work to do aswell?
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Lol, i am in no way shape or form apart of the no damage crowd, that was sarcasm mate :sly:
But you know, i think every body is forgetting about the damage that really matter...

"Mechanical" which is what we have. Realistic scuffs,crack's and scratches are nice. But i want to hear more about
the mechanical apsect.

torque.
 
Simple SIM
GAH....

That is NOT a damage model.

That looked like nothing more than gray chalk rubbed on the paint. Also the mechanical damage, if present, was completely unnoticeable. Right at the end that Ferrari smacked into that wall HARD ( at 1:15 ) but literally the next second had no problem at all speeding away.

That is ... not a damage model.
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Yerp I agree, but that's why this is also a demo and they have also said they're still developing the damage so it'll be different for the final game.
 
I must also say the only thing that amazes and perplexes me more than the "Damage thing is this "Release date thing".

Until the announcement at TGS the other day, there has been no "official release date" given period. And that was not regionally clarified.

Every other source of release info, reguardless of credibility, has been purely within the realm of "speculation","rumor", "innuendo", and "unverified heresay" and should have been considered as such.

Barring of course the frustration level seeking a vent, which I assume is the cause, I don't understand how the passing on of this type of info and its credibility now can be considered having being represented as "the Gospel".

This is a classic case of "kill the messenger".

I would advise not to put absolute faith in the "official release date" since its "subject to change without notice" as well.
 
killanite
Yerp I agree, but that's why this is also a demo and they have also said they're still developing the damage so it'll be different for the final game.
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I understand that this is still a "work in progress" but then why show this to the world? Why not take the opportunity at TGS to show us something else in a more complete state?

Give us a new track reveal or a tuning demo ect.

There has been atleast SOME work put into that Impreza damage model but the "damage model" ( I cringe to even call it that ) for the Ferrari looks like they started on it yesterday. Literally yesterday. How much coding and how many hours or work are actually required to smear some gray chalk on the part of the car that comes into contact with a wall? My guess is not many.

Even a 60 second headtracking demo would have been more impressive.
 
Simple SIM
GAH....

That is NOT a damage model.

That looked like nothing more than gray chalk rubbed on the paint. Also the mechanical damage, if present, was completely unnoticeable. Right at the end that Ferrari smacked into that wall HARD ( at 1:15 ) but literally the next second had no problem at all speeding away.

That is ... not a damage model.
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See, this is how the game could get pushed back even further, this could start a chain reaction of complaints.


Really almost no different then this,

skip to 1:02.

As you can see he hit the wall, and drove away like nothing happened.

In the video there all complaining about how the damage is lackluster..
 
Devedander
I hope addings scratches and scuffs wasn't the main reason the made the delay as it seems hardly worth it for what amounts to eye candy...
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lol All visual damage is eye candy. :P

Simple SIM
Also the mechanical damage, if present, was completely unnoticeable. Right at the end that Ferrari smacked into that wall HARD ( at 1:15 ) but literally the next second had no problem at all speeding away.
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As I've pointed out in the past, it's not uncommon for trade show demos to have the difficulty lowered so noobs can have a chance to check out the game without an inordinate level of frustration. In a driving game, that would include preventing you from rendering your car undrivable. If they can limit your top speed to 140 mph after a crash, there's no reason they couldn't also limit it to 0 mph after a crash, and more to the point, there's no reason to think they won't in the final game.
 
Simple SIM
GAH....

That is NOT a damage model.

That looked like nothing more than gray chalk rubbed on the paint. Also the mechanical damage, if present, was completely unnoticeable. Right at the end that Ferrari smacked into that wall HARD ( at 1:15 ) but literally the next second had no problem at all speeding away.

That is ... not a damage model.
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I think the visual damage is very cursor, I think at best the have been working on that since GC. My assumption is it will be much better by the time the game is full released (ie I hope the clearcoat shiny reflection will not be going over the scuffed paint areas by then).

I think what we are going to see when GT drops is that as many faults as the Forza damage has, they may be more foregiveable and maybe getting damage right in the world of console racers like this is harder than anyone gave credit for.

On a seperate note, one thing that still gets me is floppy doors on racecars... I think it looks really cool but I just don't see many racecars with floppy doors... I thought they were specially bolted closed or something so they DONT flop open...
 
TorqueHappenS08
See, this is how the game could get pushed back even further, this could start a chain reaction of complaints.


Really almost no different then this,

skip to 1:02.

As you can see he hit the wall, and drove away like nothing happened.

In the video there all complaining about how the damage is lackluster..
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Try watching that video again and DONT skip to 1:02. Watch it from the beginning. They actually zoom into the screen to show you that the game was set on Easy and that the damage was set to "Cosmetic"
 
Simple SIM
I understand that this is still a "work in progress" but then why show this to the world? Why not take the opportunity at TGS to show us something else in a more complete state?

Give us a new track reveal or a tuning demo ect.

There has been atleast SOME work put into that Impreza damage model but the "damage model" ( I cringe to even call it that ) for the Ferrari looks like they started on it yesterday. Literally yesterday. How much coding and how many hours or work are actually required to smear some gray chalk on the part of the car that comes into contact with a wall? My guess is not many.
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Thing is, Sony don't want you to know much about GT5 yet, because of GTPSP. And damage for GT series is a big deal (no matter how poor it is at the moment) so I think this demo was mostly to show new cars (italia/sls/gallardo/rwc cars)/graphic improvement/collision physics and a slight bit of damage to get you started as kaz said "we want to see how far the players want to go".

2ndly about the programming.. have you ever tried to program something onto the PS3 (if not, I'd like you not to start assuming it's easy), I mean.. Valve gave up all together.. it's not an easy task especially where if they're using the GT5:P engine which has no damage whatsoever and have to work all the way from the ground up to make it work.
 
TorqueHappenS08
Really almost no different then this,

skip to 1:02.

As you can see he hit the wall, and drove away like nothing happened.

In the video there all complaining about how the damage is lackluster..
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You can see at the start of the video that they have damage set to "cosmetic only" which explains why they can drive away from the wall right after a nasty crash. Mechanical damage is turned off.
 
If we dont get this kind of damage, what is the point?


FM3 and GT5 BOTH lack- flat tires, realistic cosmetic damage, realistic mechanical damage.

I am tired of the damage issue. I would rather wait 5 more years for close to realistic damage and we actually get GT5 this decade.
 
Forgot this one.

Simple SIM
-doors and hoods that pop up. But it looks rather comical and how is an open door or hood even "damage"? It's not. I open the doors on my car every day, that's not damage.
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So if your hood wouldn't close, or your doors just flapped in the breeze, you'd say there was nothing wrong with your car? :confused:
 
I made these SS's on
http://uk.ps3.ign.com/dor/objects/857126/gran-turismo-5/videos/gt5_tgs09_gmp_amg.html
Look at the GT-R.. it has some white decal or something. Livery editor anyone?
89661009.png

naamloosdx.png


By the way guys. Back to the 160 "premium" cars with interior AND damage or something.. I think they meant that only the "premium" cars will see in-car damage, and that all cars have an interior. Because the 458 and the SLS both have an interior but no damage..
 
serversurfer
lol All visual damage is eye candy. :P
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That's only somewhat true... scratches and scuffs are only eye candy, deformation can effect all kinds of things like:

Hood flies up, view is blocked
Window spiderwebs, vision is impared
rearview bend or break off, vision impared
bumpers/fenders dangle/fall off, increased drag, potentially danger on the track

More detailed damage can give you a cue as to what you are up against when close to an opponent. Scratches and scuffs provide very little info, but heavy deformation can be a que the car will not be performing well, ie heavy deformation on one side of the car may indicate cornering is impared, do not go into a corner next to this driver, he may be unable to avoid smashing into you.

magicalgin
By the way guys. Back to the 160 "premium" cars with interior AND damage or something.. I think they meant that only the "premium" cars will see in-car damage, and that all cars have an interior. Because the 458 and the SLS both have an interior but no damage..
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I am pretty sure up until a few days/weeks ago, the premium referred to cars that were going to have any kind of visual damage, now all cars are going to have some kind of visual damage, but the premium ones will have BETTER damage. I take it to mean all cars will have interior.
 
IsmokeGT
If we dont get this kind of damage, what is the point?


FM3 and GT5 BOTH lack- flat tires, realistic cosmetic damage, realistic mechanical damage.

I am tired of the damage issue. I would rather wait 5 more years for close to realistic damage and we actually get GT5 this decade.
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That kind of damage modeling is *Impossible* for consoles or even PC's to do in realtime.

And we will NEVER see damage like that on a licensed car in a video game. That wouldn't make their car look "a bit unsafe" it would make their product look like nothing short of a DEATH TRAP.

Just because that level of damage modeling isn't possible yet doesn't mean damage modeling shouldn't be implemented as best as is possible for todays hardware.
 
I don't want to judge a game that still has six months to improve, but to me it seems like devs still haven't "got" why people want so desperatly to have damage on.

It's about realism. It's not because people want to crash cars, it's not because they want to see if it looks cool or anything like that. Bottom line is, people want PUNISHMENT FOR RECKLESS DRIVING. That's it, that's easy to understand.

PD or Turn 10 could easilly wow the entire crowd by releasing a video of a car crashing and then a DNF or Retired screen afterwards. Players wouldn't care if the visual representation is not top notch, they would go: "Oh my god it's so awesome, you can end you race if you play poorly. Stupid online punters will actually have to drive properly, who-hoo".

Is that so hard to understand for them? Forget about complicated rendering calculations, the whole point of damage is to force people to drive carefully and not the way people do it right now. Throw in flat tires, blown engines and gearbox that can failure if you keep miss shifting and people will be jumping in joy.

There's no need for them to try to re-invent physics and fight with car manufactors if what we actually want it's simple: Real racing that punishes reckless driving.

I would mind GT5 with damage the way it is, if they put (and maybe they already have) the features i just mentioned.
 
Simple SIM
That kind of damage modeling is *Impossible* for consoles or even PC's to do in realtime.

And we will NEVER see damage like that on a licensed car in a video game. That wouldn't make their car look "a bit unsafe" it would make their product look like nothing short of a DEATH TRAP.

Just because that level of damage modeling isn't possible yet doesn't mean damage modeling shouldn't be implemented as best as is possible for todays hardware.
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I dont care what is possible. But since you brought it up, it IS possible for a car to flip and hit a barrier and be disabled in a video game. Get that? If my race car in the game cant be disablled, what is the point of damage? I didnt post a video of a race car for nothing.
 

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