Fanatec CSW/CSR Elite Modders Thread *UPDATE February 2014*

  • Thread starter eKretz
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eKretz
The reason I don't do this is there are just too many variables involved to give a general price. I will post my standard price for the complete motor block ready to drop in - but this is the price with refurbed motors. Subtract $60 and add the cost of 2 new motors to get what the new price would be. All machining is included in this price to include the mods on the motors themselves. Cost will come down from here if you can do any of the machining of your own stock parts or want to have your stock parts modded instead of new ones (motor mount and pulleys). If you can source your own motors that is fine too. Here you go:

I am currently offering drop-in motor blocks with motors, new motor mount and pulleys, new wiring harness with plug and air cooling kit with all hardware, fasteners and spacers (internal to the wheel) fully sealed, assembled and soldered (ready to bolt in and plug in to your circuit board) for $280 USD plus shipping. I also offer the kit unassembled (you get a box of parts and assemble, seal air passages and solder yourself) for $250 USD.

Either way you will need to drill 2 holes in your rear cover for the quick release air fittings and you'll need to source a 24VDC min. 10A power supply and an air pump that flows 30-40 LPM for cooling the motors as well as 3/16" and 1/4" ID tubing from the pump to the wheel (1/4" for most of the distance then a split into (2) 3/16" tubes when entering the rear cover) and a splitter. If your AC voltage is 120V I have a deal worked out with a pump supplier for a good pump at $29 plus shipping. All you need to do is add a power cord and hook it up to your tubing.
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Thank you for clearing that up eKretz.
 
well i finally pulled my finger out and got Erics cooling setup and the new power supply succesfuly installed. still have a few minor things to do (like adding the second fan in the base). while i was running the motors on the stock power supply i did notice that while drifting the buhler motors didnt quite give the same RPM at the wheel as the stock motors, which made fast transitions a little tricky but now with the new power supply wired up the extra couple of volts out of the adjustment screw (~ 27.5V) makes all the difference. the wheel is now as fast as stock with more torque and no heat fade. very happy with my wheel now. i have checked roughly what temps the motors were getting too and hit about 42 degrees C after a long session between myself and my brother trying to beat each others laps on Assetto Corsa in the lotus 49. (i blitzed his time btw :P).

Thanks Eric for all your hard work and sharing your knowledge, i cant thank you enough!
 
IMAG0561_zpshn5fbgmg.jpg
 
How is the probe attached to the can? Thermal paste?
On mine the probe of the thermometer is stuck in the cooling fins of the stock motors, I always keep an eye in the temperature.
On the Buhler, I intent to use thermal paste to attach the probe.
 
That is about as good a way as we have to measure the temp at the moment but I want to take a moment to caution you guys just like I did Cote in PM. That temp on the can doesn't accurately reflect the temp at the armature - it will be much hotter there and especially on the insides of the wire coils where no cooling air can reach. Think of the stock motors - they look perfectly fine on the outside of the can but the armatures are blue/purple! This means there's a disparity of over 100°C! Steel first starts to discolor and turn yellowish at about 150°C and the cans don't show any color at all. The blue/purple color doesn't come about until more like 280°C! So you can see what a dramatic difference there can be. This is why I don't recommend running without cooling.
 
LOL, I just did some temp monitoring too. I just got Eric's motors but before installing them I thought I'd do a before and after temp readings. My CSW has fresh stock motors after warranty repair. I was able to get the tip of the of the prob touching the back of the top motor by sticking it through a slightly modified right cover.

Did a few track sessions until the temp stabilized using two different wheel settings. FF100 & For70 went to 41C, and FF100 & For100 went to 48C. I found the CSW fans run at three different speeds (or more). Low on startup, medium before it got to 38C, and high before 48C. Most telling I think is I noticed a hot smell when the fans were on high, not a burning smell but like hot motors smell which stopped when they cooled enough to drop the fans to medium speed. So I think its good advice to not run 100/100 FF with stock motors.

Measuring at the back of the motors is likely more accurate than at the heat sink fins because the air flow will keep the fins cooler than the rest of the outer surface. So I think the heat sink actually contributes to less accurate temp readings by cooling the case. But I agree with Eric that any outer surface will not be nearly as hot as the armature where the problem is. Being an anal techie I just want to get some temperature comparisons especially with and without external air pump on the Buhlers. OK, its really an excuse to use the temp function on my new multimeter.
 

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MartyU
LOL, I just did some temp monitoring too. I just got Eric's motors but before installing them I thought I'd do a before and after temp readings. My CSW has fresh stock motors after warranty repair. I was able to get the tip of the of the prob touching the back of the top motor by sticking it through a slightly modified right cover.

Did a few track sessions until the temp stabilized using two different wheel settings. FF100 & For70 went to 41C, and FF100 & For100 went to 48C. I found the CSW fans run at three different speeds (or more). Low on startup, medium before it got to 38C, and high before 48C. Most telling I think is I noticed a hot smell when the fans were on high, not a burning smell but like hot motors smell which stopped when they cooled enough to drop the fans to medium speed. So I think its good advice to not run 100/100 FF with stock motors.

Measuring at the back of the motors is likely more accurate than at the heat sink fins because the air flow will keep the fins cooler than the rest of the outer surface. So I think the heat sink actually contributes to less accurate temp readings by cooling the case. But I agree with Eric that any outer surface will not be nearly as hot as the armature where the problem is. Being an anal techie I just want to get some temperature comparisons especially with and without external air pump on the Buhlers. OK, its really an excuse to use the temp function on my new multimeter.
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Let us know your results when you get your install done! I seemed to find that GT5 got my motors the hottest out of all sims. I'm interested to see if anyone does any other testing of varied sims and finds the same results.
 
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eKretz
Let us know your results when you get your install done! I seemed to find that GT5 got my motors the hottest out of all sims. I'm interested to see if anyone does any other testing of varied sims and finds the same results.
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Have you tried LFS? That sim cooks motors
 
eKretz
Let us know your results when you get your install done! I seemed to find that GT5 got my motors the hottest out of all sims. I'm interested to see if anyone does any other testing of varied sims and finds the same results.
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GT5 is also the one for me that generates the more heat, while being the one whith the less details.
AC has a lot of feedback for the less heat, the street cars generate more heat than the GT3s
 
Hey guys, there seems to be some confusion with the need for cooling with some guys, I'm going to post up a PM I wrote in discussion with someone - who can ID themselves if they wish or not. Please discuss:

The stock motors would definitely work better with better cooling. The reason most manufacturers don't do it is because it's expensive, and it's better to take the other approach I mentioned if possible - to use larger motors and run them at much lower than their full stall amperage. This is why you don't hear about failure of the stock motors in the T500. The stock motors also use armature wire that is almost definitely not rated to the same temp as the Bühler motors. This is pretty much standard in cheap motors - good quality motors use higher temperature rated magnet wire, and it's not cheap - that's one of the things that adds to the cost of the motors. Your Bühler motors in all likelihood will not fail without cooling. But. They will get heat fade just like the stock motors, and you will shorten their life compared to what it would have been with the cooling installed. The Bühler motors are also much stronger than stock and they stall at even higher amperage so they make even more heat. I also mentioned earlier in the thread that my cooling setup could be used with stock motors - just nobody wants to use them when the far better Bühler motors are available. You must remember that NO electric motor is intended to be run at full stall at unlimited or nearly unlimited amperage. Every manufacturer would call this a void of warranty. The Bühler is just constructed of much better stuff and can take the beating better - but why make things worse by running without cooling -it's just risking the life of your motors that much more.
 
I am the one bugging eKretz with my Canadian questions :guilty:, as I get better informed in this thread, I started to realize that we are blaming the cheap motors when in fact, as explained above, there is more to it than just the cheap motors, that is why for a more complete remedy, to not only failing motors but also to fading, adding the cooling solution is such a great suggestion.:bowdown:
Why only be young and healthy when you can be young, rich and healthy.:sly:
 
Are there some recommendations for good power supplies and good air pumps (with good price-performance ratio and available in europe)? I guess for air pumps the noisiness is important too.
 
The Meanwell supply linked in the last few pages works on most residential AC input voltages through the world I think. (Something like 100-260VAC IIRC). The Euro guys can probably ring in on the different pumps they're using.
 
i initially used the motors i have in now with no cooling, only for very short sessions but was still enough to get them smoldering hot and i think it did damage them a little, but i wasnt too worried about it because when i received them they were 'damaged' hehe, so i was getting sent a secont pair for nothing (im still waiting for those to get through customs though). so yeah, i too would strongly advise cooling if your upgrading your motors.

here are some progress shots of the rim im working on. as i destroyed the original csr rim i have not had paddle shifters for a long time, but not for much longer

upload_2014-4-22_22-49-1.png

upload_2014-4-22_22-50-42.png

upload_2014-4-22_22-51-7.png


ive used the clubsport shifter modules and moddified my csr elite paddle to fit on, and its all attached to the hub spacer i can change wheel rims at a later stage if need be. and making up more shifter paddles to bolt on will be a breeze, i found my old porsche gt2 paddles that im going to fix up aswel. all i need to do is source some of the switches that bolt into the shifter modules and wire it all together.
 
MartyU
Did a few track sessions until the temp stabilized using two different wheel settings. FF100 & For70 went to 41C, and FF100 & For100 went to 48C. I found the CSW fans run at three different speeds (or more). Low on startup, medium before it got to 38C, and high before 48C. Most telling I think is I noticed a hot smell when the fans were on high, not a burning smell but like hot motors smell which stopped when they cooled enough to drop the fans to medium speed. So I think its good advice to not run 100/100 FF with stock motors.
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I run 100/100 in rFactor and notice that FF drops after a few minutes in some mods. Maybe I'll try 100/70. I get the hot metal smell when I'm done racing... because of that I usually leave the wheel on (and thus the fans running) for about 15-30 minutes after racing.
 
As I said here

Fanatec CSW/CSR Elite Modders Thread *UPDATE February 2014*

I am really happy with the mod. I was a bit annoyed by the extra noise of the air pump. Wanted to let you know that I found a pump that is very silent and working very well on my system.

THe brand is Aquaforte V series you can have the:

V-10 10 L/M
V-20 20 L/M
V-30 30 L/M
V-60 60 L/M



I got the V-30. Really happy with it now. I enjoy driving AC even more ;-)

BTW for those interested, MP will be in the next build of AC next Friday 2 of May :cool:
 
Regarding this mod specifically, is there any advantage to having the CSW over the CSR-E? I would like to stick with my CSR-E (Forza 4 addict) but would like some insight on whether or not I'm hindering myself by doing so. My "long game" is to end up on PC someday when I'm able to afford to build a good one.

Also, as an update to the motor bulk order progress, we are up to 10 folks signed up as of yesterday. We still need 5 more in order to hit the first estimated price break and end up with cheaper motor blocks for everyone.

Here's the form link again.

https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1q2HmZzm7DD_zaoh83KTxT3A2lYjqeaX75ZdjJmGjSfY/viewform
 
The CSR-E is an awesome wheel I think. While the wheel does not have the fancy wheel options with all the buttons, it does have a wheel that is lighter than any of the CSW one's which provides more feedback due to the lighter weight. And if you move to the PC and want more buttons on your wheel, I have a cheap method:
CSREkeyboard.JPG

This is a $20 Amazon wireless USB keyboard that I have velcro'd to the wheel which I use when I play PC games like AC and iRacing. When I play Forza or GT, I just pull it off. It does add about 3oz to the wheel though which deadens the feel some.
 
^ That's a pretty creative solution FnS 👍


Jerome
 
Derickh
You can private message him thru here. I know He will be happy to help you, he is one awesome guy.
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Thanks, appreciate the info will give it a go.

EDIT:

Found something called "start a conversation" and used that, hope I did nothing wrong and/or created some problems hehe..?

Thanks again.
 
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