Fanatec CSW/CSR Elite Modders Thread *UPDATE February 2014*

  • Thread starter eKretz
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Hello Guys, just stubled up this thread and registered to gtplanet.

I am very much interested in this motors order but I just managed to read a couple of page back and would like to read the whole story before committing to anything.

Do I still have a day or two? looking at the first page I understand motors are only a part of this mod...

Thanks!
 
ilgello
Hello Guys, just stubled up this thread and registered to gtplanet.

I am very much interested in this motors order but I just managed to read a couple of page back and would like to read the whole story before committing to anything.

Do I still have a day or two? looking at the first page I understand motors are only a part of this mod...

Thanks!
Click to expand...

You have time! Make sure you're sure before signing up for anything. :)

As an update to the list and the poll...

We've had some folks bow out, which is fine. I appreciate you making that decision now rather than when the order is about to get placed.

That said, we've also had a couple new names show up! Imagine that.

The list currently looks like this:
  • 14 people signed up for the $85 per motor price
  • 1 person signed up for the $70 per motor price.
Of the 14 that have completed the poll, we're literally at a 6 to 6 tie between pulling the trigger immediately and giving it some more time to allow more folks to join up. Only 2 of the 14 respondents have opted for holding out for 30, though.

The 1 person signed up for $70 per motor is sticking to their guns, which is also fine! Given the weight of the response, however, it seems very likely they'll miss the boat (unless of course we have an explosion of new interest in the coming week(s)).

I propose that we set a deadline, maybe? Perhaps May 23rd (or even the end of the month? sooner?) to give the signups more time. In the meantime we could start finalizing pricing and maybe even collecting money for the order. Those details I leave to eKretz, though. I'm just a data guy. :)
 
Anybody seen the new wheel released by Fanatec? I think they're really starting to lose it over there. I hope this is a joke.

It's been almost 2 years since the release of the CSW, no rims to speak of during that time and this is what they come up with?

More and more I see the accuforce wheel in my future. Damn it.
 
F1 Enthusiast
More and more I see the accuforce wheel in my future. Damn it.
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Well I don't think there's anyone who denies that those servo wheels are better,, but it is the money that makes a diffrence. I would buy one in a heartbeat, but I don't seem to have a luck in lottery.
 
bumer
Well I don't think there's anyone who denies that those servo wheels are better,, but it is the money that makes a diffrence. I would buy one in a heartbeat, but I don't seem to have a luck in lottery.
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I hear ya. Really hope this motor mod works out and Fanatec comes out with some better rims, so I don't have to go down that route. It will take forever to save for that thing.
 
nubrocket
You have time! Make sure you're sure before signing up for anything. :)

As an update to the list and the poll...

We've had some folks bow out, which is fine. I appreciate you making that decision now rather than when the order is about to get placed.

That said, we've also had a couple new names show up! Imagine that.

The list currently looks like this:
  • 14 people signed up for the $85 per motor price
  • 1 person signed up for the $70 per motor price.
Of the 14 that have completed the poll, we're literally at a 6 to 6 tie between pulling the trigger immediately and giving it some more time to allow more folks to join up. Only 2 of the 14 respondents have opted for holding out for 30, though.

The 1 person signed up for $70 per motor is sticking to their guns, which is also fine! Given the weight of the response, however, it seems very likely they'll miss the boat (unless of course we have an explosion of new interest in the coming week(s)).

I propose that we set a deadline, maybe? Perhaps May 23rd (or even the end of the month? sooner?) to give the signups more time. In the meantime we could start finalizing pricing and maybe even collecting money for the order. Those details I leave to eKretz, though. I'm just a data guy. :)
Click to expand...

Agree with the deadline. We need to put some time constraints to this. May 23rd sounds good, as that gives us 3 weeks.
 
F1 Enthusiast
Anybody seen the new wheel released by Fanatec? I think they're really starting to lose it over there. I hope this is a joke.

More and more I see the accuforce wheel in my future. Damn it.
Click to expand...

US/Euro$350 for a rim. Seems like they're coming up with ways to justify the cost of the motor mod from eKretz.

bumer
Well I don't think there's anyone who denies that those servo wheels are better,, but it is the money that makes a diffrence. I would buy one in a heartbeat, but I don't seem to have a luck in lottery.
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Sub-US$2000. I think that some people aren't all that far off that region with getting their Clubsport wheels to work as they should. It's also about where the money goes....

In case people missed it on another thread:
LeMansAid
I like to play the percentage game, but I don't think that Fanatec would like me doing that.

CSW - Approximately 1.5% of retail price goes to motors. No pedals included.
T500rs - Approximately 15% of retail price goes to motors. Pedals included.
I have an Ecci 7000 wheel. Very expensive wheel, but still around 10% goes to the motor.

The CSW must be the worst performing wheel in history in this game.
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LeMansAid
T500rs motor - Buhler 1.13.044.236
Costs around $100 to buy

ECCI motor - Ametek 14206S011
Costs around $260 to buy

CSW motors - Mabuchi RS-555PH-22130
Hard to find, but equivalent motors cost 2 or 3 dollars. The cheapness is well documented.
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I think that the Accuforce will do just fine in the percentage game. And even go quite well in the retail price game.
 
eKretz
The reason I don't do this is there are just too many variables involved to give a general price. I will post my standard price for the complete motor block ready to drop in - but this is the price with refurbed motors. Subtract $60 and add the cost of 2 new motors to get what the new price would be. All machining is included in this price to include the mods on the motors themselves. Cost will come down from here if you can do any of the machining of your own stock parts or want to have your stock parts modded instead of new ones (motor mount and pulleys). If you can source your own motors that is fine too. Here you go:

I am currently offering drop-in motor blocks with motors, new motor mount and pulleys, new wiring harness with plug and air cooling kit with all hardware, fasteners and spacers (internal to the wheel) fully sealed, assembled and soldered (ready to bolt in and plug in to your circuit board) for $280 USD plus shipping. I also offer the kit unassembled (you get a box of parts and assemble, seal air passages and solder yourself) for $250 USD.

Either way you will need to drill 2 holes in your rear cover for the quick release air fittings and you'll need to source a 24VDC min. 10A power supply and an air pump that flows 30-40 LPM for cooling the motors as well as 3/16" and 1/4" ID tubing from the pump to the wheel (1/4" for most of the distance then a split into (2) 3/16" tubes when entering the rear cover) and a splitter. If your AC voltage is 120V I have a deal worked out with a pump supplier for a good pump at $29 plus shipping. All you need to do is add a power cord and hook it up to your tubing.
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I know you or someone answered somewhere else in this thread, does your new motor improve reliability?
How tough it is to add motor within base?
Does you accept to ship these motors at international?
If yes and if it it relatively simple to mount motors, i can promote on another racing forum which many csw owners barely know about the weakness of base
 
Hi Guys, Been an avid but silent follower of this thread. Awesome stuff eKretz, appreciate your effort man. And everybody who has contributed along the way. Great stuff.
Just wondering if anyone else involved in the group motor purchase is in Europe or all accross the pond?
 
simonmpower
Hi Guys, Been an avid but silent follower of this thread. Awesome stuff eKretz, appreciate your effort man. And everybody who has contributed along the way. Great stuff.
Just wondering if anyone else involved in the group motor purchase is in Europe or all accross the pond?
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No my friend I´m in EU as well, just a bit to the east of you I suppose hehe..

I´m very interested to know how much shipping would be for a complete package from eKretz ready to bolt in and hook up to air cooling?
 
I,m thinking of shipping costs. From Germany to US and then back to UK. I,m thinking of motor weight travelling back and forth across The Atlantic.
Would it be possible for motors to travel direct to me and I carry out the required mods?
 
simonmpower
I,m thinking of shipping costs. From Germany to US and then back to UK. I,m thinking of motor weight travelling back and forth across The Atlantic.
Would it be possible for motors to travel direct to me and I carry out the required mods?
Click to expand...

The motors won't come from Germany, they'll come from the U.S. distributor to me for modding, then to customers.

If you have machining capability you can do the machining yourself on the motor mount and the pulleys. I would recommend you just buy the parts kit in that case but if you want to try sourcing all the bolts and fittings and machining everything you are more than welcome to.

Shipping for just a motor block and pair of motors will probably run something along the lines of $40-$50 USD to UK/EU. A lot of my customers have been from outside the U.S. actually.
 
Ah ok. Thats sweet. I had a horrible feeling that shipping costs would be kings ransom. At that kind of cost I have no issues whatsoever. I no longer have machining capability so would have used a local engineering shop but as you get the motors from a US supplier there would be no real benefit.
Thanks for putting my mind at rest.
 
ultimate
I know you or someone answered somewhere else in this thread, does your new motor improve reliability?
How tough it is to add motor within base?
Does you accept to ship these motors at international?
If yes and if it it relatively simple to mount motors, i can promote on another racing forum which many csw owners barely know about the weakness of base
Click to expand...

Yes it does improve reliability. I had been using a set of the Bühler motors for about a year with no issues until I dissected then to check for wear/damage along with a stock motor. Those photos are posted in this thread - the Bühler armature and commutator had normal wear from use and slight discoloration from age and heat. The stock motor has turned color from copper wire to blue/black/purple.
 
For those who aren't following the comment thread within the announcement of the new wheel, here's a quote from Thomas:

The motors of the CSW are the same or similar as used in millions of FF wheels. There was a large batch of bad motors which caused big problems but with the latest motors those issues are gone.

Think about it. We are using the same motor on the Porsche wheels with 2,5 A and we use 2 of those motors in the CSW at 5A. The application is the same and stall is stall - no matter how you achieve it.

The problem was a wrong soldering method and wire shielding which was not suitable for high temperature. Only a limited amount of motors were affected but we are still talking about hundreds of wheels and even replacement motors had the issue as it took us too long to find out the root cause.

And it occurs ore likely if you race very often and so does the very vocal and influential minority of opinion leaders. That is the reason why you read so often about the issue.

If a motor is replaced now or if you purchase a CSW new and don't overclock your FOR or SPR power above 100 then you will be just fine. No engine will last forever and it always depends how you treat it. No matter if it is a real car or one of our wheels. But our products are designed for heavy use and the motor itself is fit for the purpose.
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I guess we shall see if that holds true. I still think it's back pedaling though. They sent me a pair of motors and specifically said they were from the "new batch" and they failed on me just like the other two pairs. None of that changes the fact that they use cheap ***** motors vs. what the T500 uses for instance, as noted above in LeMansAid's post.
 
backpedaling.gif


We'd often tell customers the same thing when we had a known issue at LaCie. "Unfortunately, you got one of the few with this issue"...blah blah. Imagine their response when it happened again?! Actually, us Fanatec owners can imagine : /

Jerome
 
With all this motor problems and failures, I'm really looking forward to the Accuforce Wheel.
Yea I know it will cost about 2000, but this thing is probably a purchase for a lifetime...I mean, you can't kill an industrial servo motor with your bare hands...that is just impossible. From this perspective, pricing is extremely relativ.

EDIT: sorry, I know it's somehow offtopic
 
No worries, I'd probably love to have that new SimX wheel too, but it's probably going to be too much $$ for me to ever afford. Got one toddler and another coming. I posted this in another thread:

For me personally at least though I am so happy with the performance of the Bühler motors and cooling setup that I'm not even really jealous of the Bodnar or SimX guys' new wheels. Although I'm under no illusions that my modded wheel is better or even really as good as those wheels it isn't the stellar difference that it is to the stock wheel IMO and I can live with that.
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Congrats buddy I didn't know about the 2nd :D

I did the mod knowing full well that my wheel may not be compatible with the PS4, if that's the case, then I'll probably sell it and sell my arcade cabinet to buy a SimX...if that is PS4 compatible...or some compatible wheel. I'm hoping that doesn't happen cause this wheel is really great (now).


Jerome
 
i have a theory on the motors, it may be that there was the problem with the bad batch an thats now resolved but i still wouldnt put too much faith in the V2 motors though. and perhaps firmware is playing a big part in this aswell, part of the reason why i think that they are reluctant to send out motor blocks now because they are altering/updating the FW or something to try reduce some strain on the motors.
just my theory on it.
 
According to Jack CEO statement, if they claim CSW can last over time without reliability issue, they should lock some settings at certain value (SPR, FOR etc...)
Or simply reducing these effects either.
 
This is only imho but I really do think Tomas & co have been bitten by the greed-bug over there at Fanatec, or at least trying to max profits to such a degree it´s ridiculous and the love for gaming hardware seams a bit lost.
He do claim he did it not just for business but also for the love of gaming hardware etc or that´s what I´v been told anyway, the new steering wheel is just a bit crazy, 350?

Although if the eKretz upgrade makes the wheel a bit better and drastically reduce heat fading that will make me a happy man, can always dream about Accuforce and such toys though. :D
 
ultimate
According to Jack CEO statement, if they claim CSW can last over time without reliability issue, they should lock some settings at certain value (SPR, FOR etc...)
Or simply reducing these effects either.
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You don't seem to understand. They make it so that you can turn them up over 100%, because some games may have weaker FFB. If they lock them to 100 like it used to be, then you'll just have to play with very weak FFB in some games, but you certainly wouldn't want to do that and definitely would come to complain about weak FFB.
I don't know about other games, but in Assetto Corsa, there is noticeable difference. I'm not saying that I need to dial those settings over 100, but comparing road cars to cars like z4 GT3, there is a massive FFB strength difference which makes me change settings every time.

superslowme
This is only imho but I really do think Tomas & co have been bitten by the greed-bug over there at Fanatec, or at least trying to max profits to such a degree it´s ridiculous and the love for gaming hardware seams a bit lost.
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There is no need to blame for being greed or something, because we don't know everything about this wheel. Like LogiForce mentioned somewhere, that if it is some Sparco's partial rip-off/licenced/whatever, it could cost that much because barebone Sparco costs over 200 without CNC machined aluminum centre cap, quick release, some electronics. To me, it doesn't come even close to being even half as greed as Apple or Samsung mobile division.
 
nubrocket
Sure thing!

It's here, in the comment thread about the new wheel they announced.
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Ok thanks. I was thinking it was somewhere in this forum.

I wanted to know as I was looking to comment about them not selling replacement motors to customers who's warranties have expired even though they claim they do sell them(I have emails to prove they don't), but I will let it go. Them not selling replacement motors led me to pursue eKretz to do the machining to make the Buhlers work which has since exploded in to a real solution for many CSW/CSRE users.
 
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