- 28,471
- Windsor, Ontario, Canada
- Johnnypenso
Give us better sounds - PLEASE !!
- Thread starter steamcat
- 4,667 comments
- 334,278 views
- 7,830
- U S A
- Tetsumura
- Nigel Fox
Griff is sensing the same change in the air I do.
I'm beginning to seriously think there will be some grumpy guses around here when E3 hits.
- 34,632
- Addison,Texas
- GTP_RACECAR
Your time here at GTP pretty much should already have given a forgone conclusion that its inevitable. I pretty much expect it every year, "Screw that stupid game, SHOW GT!!!!!". I'm gonna be $5,000,000 richer by betting that this is the kind of comments I guarantee we'll see when the Sony Press Conference comes around.
- 28,471
- Windsor, Ontario, Canada
- Johnnypenso
If I were a betting man, and I am
, I'd say the sound update has near zero chance of being on GT6. This game is dead in the water and there would be so little to gain by letting a new sound package loose, given the relatively small audience and the puny chance of a surge in sales. Much bigger bang for the buck by introducing it with GT7P or the full game and they can avoid the obvious inference that if these new sounds were possible on the PS3, why didn't we have them 3 years ago? The only possible benefit I can see is to use it as a sort of beta test to gauge community reaction on which sounds are popular and which are not and then doing some refinement for GT7.
nothing from PD suprises me anymore since the super awesome GT4 HD ports!
- 8,698
I have no idea about GT6 being dead in the water, or otherwise, and I'll leave that to Sony to decide upon, naturally. I just want to play it - Ronda and the new sounds, plus the new physics we already have, will do it for me. We should at least get Ronda.If I were a betting man, and I am
The only possible benefit I can see is to use it as a sort of beta test to gauge community reaction on which sounds are popular and which are not and then doing some refinement for GT7.
I don't really know what gauging community reaction as to "what sounds are popular" actually means, though. I think it's a forgone conclusion that any and all flexibility in customisation that PD could choose to include would be welcomed with open arms, both for the enabling of artistic freedom, and for the ability to sidestep sounds players "don't like".
It's fun to keep noting, though, that the new sounds are in the game already, just (presumably) incomplete. As for why they couldn't be in 3 years ago, my suspicion lies firmly with the audio issues you're having on Bathurst, and the graphics issues (slowdown) practically everyone has there.
Also Ronda.
Huh?
- 8,698
So do you think there is a second, new sound engine actually in the game for those Red Bull cars or simply that they've created better samples? What do you believe they've done, technically?
I accidentally left the Ronda part in the quote but you mean the reason we've not got that properly is because of the new audio?
I accidentally left the Ronda part in the quote but you mean the reason we've not got that properly is because of the new audio?
- 8,698
It's all interlinked, is my thinking - and given the nature of the tasks (geometry streaming, sound streaming), they are likely to be done on the SPUs, which are all manually balanced / tuned. I wouldn't be surprised if the eventual "Spec II" (as it most likely will have to be at this rate) was forked before the game released.
Yes, the Red Bull sounds are clearly not samples.
- 8,698
Effectively, yes. There has to be a reason all the Red Bull cars seem to have the exact same exhaust pipe on them.
My thinking, as soon as the Junior was unveiled, was that they are making up for missing sources. Those missing sources can't just be added to the game in the same way the current ones are, because there's only so many concurrent sounds you can have. Something has to give, ideally you'd swap sources in and out as and when they are prominent and then "not important" any more - there are many ways to achieve such "virtual" channel schemes, and they need to be both robustly programmed and non-jarring in their aesthetic effect.
There is one key difference in the way GT6 handles camera transitions in replays over GT5 that gives the impression that virtual channels are already partially implemented (GT6 briefly plays the same sounds from two positions in space, GT5 kept the old listener location briefly). Then you have to consider all the streaming / dropout issues everyone is having, and what I said about the fiddly nature of scheduling on the SPUs.
GT has historically only really had exhaust sounds. Exhaust sounds on their own do not do the cars justice, as we know from every GT game, and from the example set by other games. The Red Bull cars, therefore, are exaggerated (I made a video demonstrating it a while back) to compensate, since they still only have exhaust sounds also. I believe I was able to recreate the particular way they have been exaggerated, also (in terms of physical descriptions of the bits that make sounds, translated to my own "model").
So no, the technique used on the Red Bulls (exaggeration) is not transferable to the other cars, the sounds for which will have been authored (mostly already) using the full scheme (all sources) as a target (if only for PS4). Hence also why the Red Bulls all use the same over-the-top, long, resonant, raspy exhaust pipe, as a placeholder (which is why it wouldn't be applied to the 97T, in my opinion - it'll get new samples like the Hudson did.)
There is potentially an element of wishful thinking; I dearly hope that PD plan to include intake sounds as a minimum in their complete new method. That may not happen (esp. on PS3), but it must for their new method, as I've interpreted it, to work properly / convincingly. The facts remain, though: the Red Bull cars really do have a DSP-style exhaust "effect" that is distinct from samples (which they also have assigned to them, in the Data Logger), and that really is "completely new". I'm hoping "illicit behaviour" can offer something more conclusive, but that's for the real experts to share.
By the way, what I was saying, way back when, that the only way PD could improve the sounds would be to use a new method, one that doesn't use as much RAM per source, but exchanges that for processing power, correlates well with what I hear (techniques-wise) in the Red Bull X cars. But it's impossible to know the exact "exchange" they've gone for (although it is possible to know what the per-car RAM budget is for sound, in terms of limits, thanks to the updates). What you save by binning samples, you can spend on "buffers" - i.e. more sources...
Sorry for the long post, but it's hard to succinctly justify such nested "logic"!
- 34,632
- Addison,Texas
- GTP_RACECAR
So what would you say about the Corvette Concept Race car? It seems to have a sound that to my memory, has never been on any previous car. I thought it used the same sound as the Bondurant Corvette Zo6 race car, but its sounds different.
- 301
- Washington
- Chippy569
- Chippy569
No game is dead in the water until it brings in less money than it spent creating the game. And even then, if it's a massive title like GT, it probably gets "one more chance." I haven't seen GT6 sales numbers yet but I would guess it's not as apocalyptic as some here would want to believe.
- 28,471
- Windsor, Ontario, Canada
- Johnnypenso
Kaz said $60 Mill for GT5. Assume GT6 was $40 Million. Retailers get a cut, Sony gets a cut, advertising, distribution, production costs etc. No way to know the average sale price so let's assume $50 for the sake of argument. How many units do you guess they'd have to move for Sony to break even?
- 7,830
- U S A
- Tetsumura
- Nigel Fox
Well, what I meant was... *a-hem*... Prologue.
While a whole hoard of gamers are wanting to see the Next Big GT on PS4 as soon as possible, you have a certain number of malcontents who insist that PD finish what they started on GT6. And as you rightly point out, some of them are making divorce noises ahead of time, so I'm not sure what they want out of a game they supposedly have no intention of playing again.
And I really don't get the heavy negativism towards moving on. A lot of the gripes we have about GT6 is because of the cramped old architecture of PS3. GT6 is rife with unrealized potential. GT7 is rich with attainable potential made possible by a well endowed console. Rich lighting engine, especially at night. More humanlike bots. Sounds in all categories. Better physics. More dynamic and lifelike weather, and time of day transitions on lots more tracks, if not all. Race Mod and a Livery Editor. A powerful Course Maker and Event Maker. Maybe a serious damage build. Lots of cars on track at once, possibly online as well, with the possibility of exciting multiclass racing. GT Pro Mode. Real league style racing!
Who knows what's possible? I'm not sure even Kaz is. And this is why I want to move on to that new arena, to see what Kaz can bring to life.
- 1,950
- Poland
Well, what I meant was... *a-hem*... Prologue.
While a whole hoard of gamers are wanting to see the Next Big GT on PS4 as soon as possible, you have a certain number of malcontents who insist that PD finish what they started on GT6. And as you rightly point out, some of them are making divorce noises ahead of time, so I'm not sure what they want out of a game they supposedly have no intention of playing again.
And I really don't get the heavy negativism towards moving on. A lot of the gripes we have about GT6 is because of the cramped old architecture of PS3. GT6 is rife with unrealized potential. GT7 is rich with attainable potential made possible by a well endowed console. Rich lighting engine, especially at night. More humanlike bots. Sounds in all categories. Better physics. More dynamic and lifelike weather, and time of day transitions on lots more tracks, if not all. Race Mod and a Livery Editor. A powerful Course Maker and Event Maker. Maybe a serious damage build. Lots of cars on track at once, possibly online as well, with the possibility of exciting multiclass racing. GT Pro Mode. Real league style racing!
Who knows what's possible? I'm not sure even Kaz is. And this is why I want to move on to that new arena, to see what Kaz can bring to life.
Why do you think those bolded items are not possible on the PS3? They have nothing to do with hardware performance but with game design choices.
- 7,830
- U S A
- Tetsumura
- Nigel Fox
I say that because coding for PS4 will be much simpler.
- 28,471
- Windsor, Ontario, Canada
- Johnnypenso
We are malcontents for wanting PD to finish the game we paid full price for? You are truly delusional if you really believe that.
- 3,052
- Sweden
I fixed that one for ya'. A lot of the gripes many of us have about GT6 is due to poor design decisions rather than a weak and old architecture.
- 15,130
- Melbourne
- ScottPuss20
- CheetahsMeow
I don't really care about the engine sounds, because some of them are exact. Like the HSV-010, Lamborghini Gallardo, Aston Martin DB9, Lexus LF-A, Corvette C7 (I think), Aston Martin V12 Vantage, Toyota Supra (sort of) and the Audi R8 V10. Most need improving, but I can wait for that.
- 6,794
- United Kingdom
Probably about 1.5 million units.
- 28,471
- Windsor, Ontario, Canada
- Johnnypenso
Assuming that's true then it's really a disaster isn't it? If they break even at 1.5 million (I'd guess higher) then at 10 Million units they are making money hand over fist because after the first 1.5 million units it's mostly production and shipping costs and very little else. Sony won't be looking at this saying, "Oh it's ok we made a little money", they'll be saying, "Where's my other 8 million units you just cost us $200Million!!, we needed that for X, Y and Z Project"
