Gran Turismo 6 vs Forza Motorsport 5-Test Drive SRT 2013@Bathurst

[jay.s]

TCS = Traction Control System. Traction can still be lost. Yes, ABS can allow wheel lock up. I've locked up the brakes on my own car driving on the highway. It comes with ABS.

May I suggest you take your car to a garage and get the ABS checked out as a car with ABS SHOULD NOT LOCK UP THE BRAKES unless it is not working! when it is working you will feel a pulsating through the brake pedal when doing an emergency stop etc. this pulsating is the abs working. I have driven my fair share of cars with and without abs in my 16 years of driving and have never once had an abs car lock up.

As for this game comparison I am not surprised that Forza 5 won , its is on a new machine which has a much better number crunching ability and will have better physics etc because of this. If PD had more processing power to work with on the PS3 then GT6 would of been even better. A fair test for Forza 5 would be something running on a PC or on PS4 not a 10 year old PS3. Considering what it is running on I think GT6 is very good

 

[Bo]

May I suggest you take your car to a garage and get the ABS checked out as a car with ABS SHOULD NOT LOCK UP THE BRAKES unless it is not working! when it is working you will feel a pulsating through the brake pedal when doing an emergency stop etc. this pulsating is the abs working. I have driven my fair share of cars with and without abs in my 16 years of driving and have never once had an abs car lock up.

As for this game comparison I am not surprised that Forza 5 won , its is on a new machine which has a much better number crunching ability and will have better physics etc because of this. If PD had more processing power to work with on the PS3 then GT6 would of been even better. A fair test for Forza 5 would be something running on a PC or on PS4 not a 10 year old PS3. Considering what it is running on I think GT6 is very good

Nope! ABS isn't fool proof. A car will still skid to some degree if you do 70mph emergency stops.

 

[TRC GeorgiaDawg]

Clearly, the only fair and relevant comparison is between FM4 and GT6. Both are the final efforts by their respective developers on last gen hardware. And both games are said to be pushing the hardware to the absolute limits.

In that comparison I'd give a small advantage to FM4 over GT6. Personally, I find GT6 to be the superior game when it comes to cars, tracks and physics, but even a stripped down of online features FM4 crushes GT6 in that department. Sad as that is. @HBR-Roadhog said it best about FM2. That game should be the standard other games look to for online features. That being said if PD hits a home run with the community features that advantage will swing the other way.

 

[Exorcet]

May I suggest you take your car to a garage and get the ABS checked out

I was sort of waiting for someone to say this. The car did not lock up and skid down the road, it was intermittent lock up from the ABS working, similar to what is seen in Forza 4/5 ABS. The system in my car is working fine.

Clearly, the only fair and relevant comparison is between FM4 and GT6. Both are the final efforts by their respective developers on last gen hardware. And both games are said to be pushing the hardware to the absolute limits.

In that comparison I'd give a small advantage to FM4 over GT6. Personally, I find GT6 to be the superior game when it comes to cars, tracks and physics, but even a stripped down of online features FM4 crushes GT6 in that department. Sad as that is. @HBR-Roadhog said it best about FM2. That game should be the standard other games look to for online features. Now, if PD hits a home run with the community features that advantage will swing the other way.

F5 vs GT6 is just as relevant, if not more so. The bottom line is ISR does overviews of the sim racing genre. Anyone looking for a console sim right now that wants the best available can only choose between GT6 and FM5. FM5 is a better sim, so if you want all out console realism, go for FM. GT6 may be cheaper to own, so if you're on a budget and happen to have already spent some of the money required to get GT6 already, then GT6 is the better deal.

I agree on the old FM's, but only based on what I've heard. I never played Forza online until 3 and I've only played F1/2 on demo stands many years ago. The premade Forza online rooms are very bland, boring, and restrictive. If more people used the custom rooms in FM4 it would have changed the game, but there were only ever a handful of them open at a time.

Physics wise I think GT6 is behind even FM4. Someone said that FM3 would beat GT6. I don't agree, but when I had FM3 I compared to GT5 and went with GT. Forza as of now has changed drastically compared to then (especially 3 to 4) while GT seems to have settled at a particular level of realism. To me it almost seems as if PD is reluctant to make the game more realistic than it currently is.

 

[Gerarghini]

Comments like that don't say much, other than you think of Forza too highly.

Well at least Forza 3 has damage and better sounds than GT6. They may be neck and neck at best.

 

[LVracerGT]

May I suggest you take your car to a garage and get the ABS checked out as a car with ABS SHOULD NOT LOCK UP THE BRAKES unless it is not working! when it is working you will feel a pulsating through the brake pedal when doing an emergency stop etc. this pulsating is the abs working. I have driven my fair share of cars with and without abs in my 16 years of driving and have never once had an abs car lock up.

I love people that get all worked up because they're sure they're 100% right.

Every time you feel the brake pedal kick from the ABS pulsing, you're getting momentary lock up. That's how ABS works. It monitors the wheel speed sensor and as soon as it sees one wheel hit 0 it pulses the ABS. Have someone drive your car at 50 mph and slam on the brakes in front of you, I can guarantee you will see the front wheels lock up momentarily a hand full of times.

And just in case you don't believe me, I'm an auto tech IRL and was trained on how ABS systems work in school, and worked for Skip Barber where I personally witnessed this exact thing happening on BMW M3's and Lexus IS-F's during threshold braking exercises.

 

[TRC GeorgiaDawg]

I


F5 vs GT6 is just as relevant, if not more so. The bottom line is ISR does overviews of the sim racing genre. Anyone looking for a console sim right now that wants the best available can only choose between GT6 and FM5. FM5 is a better sim, so if you want all out console realism, go for FM. GT6 may be cheaper to own, so if you're on a budget and happen to have already spent some of the money required to get GT6 already, then GT6 is the better deal.

IMO It's no more relevant than comparing FM4 to GT7 when it comes out. They are on completely different generations of hardware. The next time it will be relevant to directly compare the two will be FM6 vs GT7. Both developers will have had plenty of time to develop a next gen game. And let's face it, neither game has been met with glowing love from their target audience. So the pressure is on both to step it up. And that's not even including the wildcard that is Pcars.

I know some people treat ISR reviews as some kind of bible. They're ok, but they've got their biases and always have. As far as which one is the better sim that's completely subjective. I think both do certain things better than the other. The tire model is better on Forza 3 than it was on 4 IMO. The weight transfer and feel of the tracks is miles better on GT6 IMO.

And what exactly is sim? I'd say it's more than physics and perfect car models. Which is all anyone seems to care about. Does FM5 have day/night transition? Weather? Qualifying? That's all sim as well and it's all absent in FM5.

 

[another_jakhole]

Make that GT6 vs FM4 and FM4 will still come on top, it'll still get the edge on sounds, damage and physics.

Well, then we should make it GT5 vs FM5...

Are we (you) talking about comparing the physics only? Oh, never mind.

 

[JK1977]

I would play Forza because has nice sound , and maybe for the LMPs

 

[jay.s]

Nope! ABS isn't fool proof. A car will still skid to some degree if you do 70mph emergency stops.

The brakes will lock for less than a seconds while it shifts braking around the car

I was sort of waiting for someone to say this. The car did not lock up and skid down the road, it was intermittent lock up from the ABS working, similar to what is seen in Forza 4/5 ABS. The system in my car is working fine.

The way you originally wrote your message gave the impression the abs was not working as abs kicking in and wheels locking up are different things... you wrote: I've locked up the brakes on my own car driving on the highway. which to me sounds like the abs is not working. maybe should of put the abs was doing its job:idea:

I love people that get all worked up because they're sure they're 100% right.

Every time you feel the brake pedal kick from the ABS pulsing, you're getting momentary lock up. That's how ABS works. It monitors the wheel speed sensor and as soon as it sees one wheel hit 0 it pulses the ABS. Have someone drive your car at 50 mph and slam on the brakes in front of you, I can guarantee you will see the front wheels lock up momentarily a hand full of times.

And just in case you don't believe me, I'm an auto tech IRL and was trained on how ABS systems work in school, and worked for Skip Barber where I personally witnessed this exact thing happening on BMW M3's and Lexus IS-F's during threshold braking exercises.

I know exactly what and how abs works thanks and yes they will lock for a sec before shifting braking effort but that is not what I would call locking up! this is locking up which the op gave the impression he had done

 

[Tenacious D]

That's generally because if he says anything bad about GT then he gets abused...Been like that for years.

I take it you haven't spent much time in a Forza board.

All this comparison does is highlight the usual endemic shortcomings of both series, and a lot of it is based on personal preference. To one extent or another, GT and Forza sneer at each other, and PC simmers sneer at both of us. Everyone defends their adopted precious. Surprised?

But, what's wrong with that? The hard nosed of every camp refuses to see all the good things the other brings to the table, assuming that anyone in their right minds would dump the object of scorn in half a lap - i.e., "if you're really intelligent you'll agree with me." But in spite of all the doomsayers, GT still sells right along. "The worst Gran Turismo in history," GT5, sold a million more copies last year, even as GT6 was coming. Reports of poor GT6 sales are sketchy at best as they ignore factors such as online sales and downloads, and Europe, GT's biggest market. Gran Turismo, for all the mockery it gets, some deserved, some not, doesn't keep it from consistently outselling its competitors in multiple millions. And carrying on as if nothing ever improves in the series helps no one's arguments. Might as well be attacking windmills.

 

[Exorcet]

IMO It's no more relevant than comparing FM4 to GT7 when it comes out.

If the point of that comparison is determining the best available sim at the time, it fails as a comparison because you wouldn't be using the best Forza game. Forza has a hardware advantage yes, but that's a design choice. If you're comparing cars and you want to find who makes the fastest cars, a Dodge Viper is going to do a lot better than a Land Rover. Land Rover could come out later on and make a F1 car and destroy the Viper, but they don't offer any such product at the moment.

It's not a sleight against PD, they just don't happen to have a strong FM5 competitor right now in terms of raw physics.

As far as which one is the better sim that's completely subjective.

Which one a person likes more is subjective. Which one has more realistic physics is not.

I think both do certain things better than the other. The tire model is better on Forza 3 than it was on 4 IMO.

If I recall, it was hard to get some road cars to break traction in FM3. It had the opposite of GT's "traction oval". GT had more lateral grip than longitudinal. Forza has more long than lat. FM4 made it more of a circle.

And what exactly is sim? I'd say it's more than physics and perfect car models. Which is all anyone seems to care about. Does FM5 have day/night transition? Weather? Qualifying? That's all sim as well and it's all absent in FM5.

Asking what a sim is, is a good question.

It's fair to say that one game can have advantages over the other, and I think that's what most people are saying. I know for sure when I say that Forza is better I give my reasoning and explain where that reasoning applies.

Forza does lack qualification (as does GT outside of online). This is pretty much inexcusable in a modern sim. I don't see the lack of time transition and weather as being terrible in Forza. Ideally they should be there, but they are secondary factors compared to the physics engine, which is far superior to GT's. While GT does have rain and night racing, it's rain and night racing with improper physics.

The way you originally wrote your message gave the impression the abs was not working as abs kicking in and wheels locking up are different things... you wrote: I've locked up the brakes on my own car driving on the highway. which to me sounds like the abs is not working. maybe should of put the abs was doing its job

That's due to context. The argument was over the "lock up" that occurs in Forza when you use ABS brakes.

 

[LVracerGT]

The brakes will lock for less than a seconds while it shifts braking around the car

I know exactly what and how abs works thanks and yes they will lock for a sec before shifting braking effort but that is not what I would call locking up! this is locking up which the op gave the impression he had done.

Not to drag this too far OT but that's not the way ABS works. It does not "shift braking effort" around the car. Are you sure you know how ABS works?

 

[MOTORTRENDmitch]

Not to drag this too far OT but that's not the way ABS works. It does not "shift braking effort" around the car. Are you sure you know how ABS works?

 

[ildd]

Im guessing your calling GT6 7 years old due to dev time on GT5 & 6? If so surly the 7 year old game should be near perfect compared to 3 months? (Still trying to figure out where the 3 months comes from)

GT6 was developed and built for a computer system that uses 2005-2006 technology.
Forza 5 was developed and built for a computer system that uses 3-5 month old technology.

 

[eSZee]

GT6 was developed and built for a computer system that uses 2005-2006 technology.
Forza 5 was developed and built for a computer system that uses 3-5 month old technology.

Uh uh, that's not the case. The console came out recently but the components are neither new nor terribly powerful. Aren't both the cpu/gpu based on early 2012 tech or comparable in performance to AMD tech from that time?

 

[makimak22]

No Tornado, Forza has more processing power, so 6th grader

A game has more processing power?

To me, Forza will always be about using kinect to drive (FM4) and how ridiculous it turned out to be. GT has major manufacturers collaborating with varios projects, and it has crossed the game/reality boundary with GT academy. But the most important thing for me in GT6: Senna DLC.

 

[jay.s]

Not to drag this too far OT but that's not the way ABS works. It does not "shift braking effort" around the car. Are you sure you know how ABS works?

You are driving down the road and start to brake while doing so the front right wheel hits a patch of ice , the abs will cut in and rapidly start to pump the caliper ( this is the pulsing) for that wheel to stop it from locking and maintain its speed with the rest.... while doing so the rear right wheel hits that same patch of ice and abs will cut in at the back to stop that wheel from locking, that what I meant by shifting about. Or did you want me to put the ins and outs of it like the wheel speed sensor picks up am magnetic signal from the reluctor ring on the driveshaft ( on-off signal ) and feeds this to the abs module which then sorts the braking out for you.

 

[SlipZtrEm]

But the most important thing for me in GT6: Senna DLC.

Well that's certainly an interesting approach to take: what's most important is a small reference of a supposed DLC pack that we know nothing about, and it's been promised by a company that still hasn't given us a clear time of arrival for features that were originally supposed to be part of the game (and were a part of its predecessor), like team/club building, a course creator, B-spec, or improved interaction with smart phones. They haven't mentioned that supposed new track we're getting in February again either... to say nothing of that old promise of "a new track and cars each month".

But sure, I say give them the nod for a supposed DLC that banks on the name of a man.

 

[LVracerGT]

You are driving down the road and start to brake while doing so the front right wheel hits a patch of ice , the abs will cut in and rapidly start to pump the caliper ( this is the pulsing) for that wheel to stop it from locking and maintain its speed with the rest.... while doing so the rear right wheel hits that same patch of ice and abs will cut in at the back to stop that wheel from locking, that what I meant by shifting about. Or did you want me to put the ins and outs of it like the wheel speed sensor picks up am magnetic signal from the reluctor ring on the driveshaft ( on-off signal ) and feeds this to the abs module which then sorts the braking out for you.

No you don't need to go into detail, as I mentioned I went to school and was trained on all the different ABS systems. But you're still incorrect about "shifting" braking forces. Just because one wheel locks does not mean ABS will transfer the braking force to another wheel, unless there is a separate system that works in tandem with the ABS to do so.

BTW, ABS will only work the way you described if it's 4-channel

 

[MOTORTRENDmitch]

No you don't need to go into detail, as I mentioned I went to school and was trained on all the different ABS systems. But you're still incorrect about "shifting" braking forces. Just because one wheel locks does not mean ABS will transfer the braking force to another wheel, unless there is a separate system that works in tandem with the ABS to do so.

BTW, ABS will only work the way you described if it's 4-channel

Droppin' knowledge

 

[makimak22]

Well that's certainly an interesting approach to take: what's most important is a small reference of a supposed DLC pack that we know nothing about, and it's been promised by a company that still hasn't given us a clear time of arrival for features that were originally supposed to be part of the game (and were a part of its predecessor), like team/club building, a course creator, B-spec, or improved interaction with smart phones. They haven't mentioned that supposed new track we're getting in February again either... to say nothing of that old promise of "a new track and cars each month".

But sure, I say give them the nod for a supposed DLC that banks on the name of a man.

As opposed to just monopolizing the name of Top Gear, the presenters’ voice and Stig with no particular appliction to the game itself? Senna’s charity foundation is involved with the DLC and I dare to say it would be a fitting tribute to a legendary driver, NOT just a man.

And all the features you say are missing, maybe we will see them one day, but definitely won't be in a Forza game....

 

[jay.s]

No you don't need to go into detail, as I mentioned I went to school and was trained on all the different ABS systems. But you're still incorrect about "shifting" braking forces. Just because one wheel locks does not mean ABS will transfer the braking force to another wheel, unless there is a separate system that works in tandem with the ABS to do so.

BTW, ABS will only work the way you described if it's 4-channel

We will have to agree to disagree on this one although I am enjoying our conversation more than the original F5vs GT6

I think you misunderstood me , abs will cut in to which wheel is needed at the time to keep the car stable and slowed unless it is a 3 channel system where the rear is as one.... I am pretty sure most new stuff is 4 channel now as it is safer etc.

 

[makimak22]

To me, Forza sank to new low when they tried to use kinect to drive (FM4) and how ridiculous it turned out to be. M$ is just using it as a tool to sell whatever new product it has at the time. If it is a premium asset to xbox, why would they give FM4 for free if you bought a 360?（and I am sure FM5 will come free with Xbone soon）GT has done more then being just a driving simulator. It has earned respects from major manufacturers, and they are willing to collaborate with various projects. Also it has successfully crossed the game/reality boundary with GT academy. But the most important thing for me in GT6: a tribute to Senna.

 

[jay.s]

Droppin' knowledge

I can assure you its nothing new to me

 

[eSZee]

As opposed to just monopolizing the name of Top Gear, the presenters’ voice and Stig with no particular appliction to the game itself?

Have you actually played FM4 or FM5?
Should we bring up how masterfully TG Test Track was utilized in GT5? You want to talk about monopolizing on the name of Top Gear and doing ZILCH with game integration, GT5 has everyone beat.

 

[makimak22]

Have you actually played FM4 or FM5?
Should we bring up how masterfully TG Test Track was utilized in GT5? You want to talk about monopolizing on the name of Top Gear and doing ZILCH with game integration, GT5 has everyone beat.

I played FM4 with Kinect and the plastic wireless wheel M$ sold at inflated price. Talk about real driving simulation! No I don't have a chance to play FM5 coz M$ is dragging their arse and have not launched XBone in my country.

Do you know the meaning of ’’monopolizing’’?? Why do you think the Top Gear track is not in GT6?? And what little they can do in GT5 with it??? If M$ paid for the exclusive use of the Top Gear materials, well can't they at least include Stig’s lap time with the cars he has tested in the game ????

 

[eSZee]

I played FM4 with Kinect and the plastic wireless wheel M$ sold at inflated price. No I don't have a chance to play FM5 coz M$ is dragging their arse and have not launched XBone in my country. Do you know the meaning of ’’monopolizing’’?? Why do you think the Top Gear track is not in GT6?? And what little they can do in GT5 with it??? If M$ paid for the exclusive use of the Top Gear franchise, well can't they at least include Stig’s lap time with the cars he has tested in the game ????

Exclusivity license? Is there a source for this?

I asked whether you played either game because what you wrote

monopolizing the name of Top Gear, the presenters’ voice and Stig with no particular appliction to the game itself?

clearly shows you haven't, at least not for an extended period of time.

Then you go on to say PD will not just capitalize on Senna...based on what exactly? The splendid job they did with TG?

All I see is a strong bias against M$.

 

[avens]

I understand most of what he said.. How ever, why the hell did he put SS on the SRT10?
He was surprised the Viper was harder to catch and had less feel in GT6, which is a problem he wouldn't have, if he left it STOCK like he said..

Besides that, well done review.

I want to see them compare the Nurburging in GT6 to that of Forza 5. Put cars like the LFA in there. That's a matchup.

If the option is there on a so called simulator then it's not the reviewers' fault but the developers'. Plus pretty much everyone that wants to compete will and does use the very much unrealistic racing softs if the option is available.

But more than that, personally I dislike all the usual upcoming excuses when comparing the GT series to the competition: all these so called bad settings, better and worse cars and tracks in each game, updates, lack of ram, fewer employees and whatnot. In the end a 2013/2014 game should be compared to its contemporaries and there's no roundabouts because the choice is there for every consumer right now. All aspects should be judged without excuses.

With that said, is it that much of a great thing that the considered to be the worst forza ever for its time is considered to be as good as GT6, which is the best GT in almost 10 years?

 

[GTsimms]

I have had a vehicle in the past, where the abs worked at normal driving speeds. But as you get to lower speeds(<15 mph) during braking the tires would lock. I have played Forza 1, 2, 3, 4. I would have to say FM4 was not bad after a few updates with the CSR wheel.

To me FM5 content seems like GT5 Prologue. Which after Fanatec wheels worked on the Xbox 360. Now, Microsoft puts the X:censoredne out to screw you out of using your FM CSR wheel(Which probably works on the PS4). Oh, just go out a purchase another wheel after purchasing your new XBOX ONE, they are cheap! Not only that T10 has a habit of banning people for no reason, will not remove a ban, and allow the top 30 designers in the livery area get away with 🤬 everything. I had a friend get banned for 20 years from the livery designs on FM4. T10 and MS seems to keep 🤬 their customers. Take look at the reduced quality of FM5 from running on a PC to the released version. I keep looking at the free games with Gold and glad I have PSN + now. You get better games with PSN + and not $5 games.

I do think, GT6 is better due to more tracks and night racing. But still needs a lot of fixes just a few ex: sounds, get more detailed interiors, and get rid of some of the repeated non-detailed cars less than 100,000.