GT5 Tuning Guides

Discussion in 'GT5 Tuning Forum' started by Scaff, Nov 29, 2010.

  1. Rotary Junkie

    Premium
    United States Canton, MI
    PSN:RJs_RX-7

    That's the problem...

    The "backwards" effects aren't actually backwards. You stiffen the rear of the car, the rear suspension gets stiffer (and vice-versa) but the effects are wrong at times. Not always though which is what makes it a bit problematic.
  2. CSLACR

    United States
    PSN:GTP_CSL

    This is true.

    The simple answer, panjandrum, is ride height, springs, dampers, and anti-roll bars.

    But as RJ said, lower the rear, the rear will be lower, stiffen the front, and the front will be stiffer, etc.
    People often debate the semantics of what could or might sometimes happen in real life, the overall idea of real world tuning from what I've read shows that the entire left side is exactly backwards on how it affects cornering.

    People can (and have) go on for days thinking of things like "maybe the rear is bottoming out" to explain why a lower rear slides more then a high one, but at the end of the day, this is what you'll want to know:

    Ride Height - Lower rear equals over-steer, lower front equals under-steer.
    Ride Height 2 - Lower corners faster, higher has more acceleration grip.
    Springs - Stiffer front, over-steer, stiffer rear, under-steer.
    Dampers - Same as springs.
    Anti-roll bars - Same as springs.

    This post does not reflect any opinions I have on real world tuning, as I hate discussing semantics with people on the internet.
  3. Thanks! That's exactly what I'm looking for. I'll just print that out and stick it next to my wheel and every time I go to tune the suspension I'll try to ignore what I do in the real world and just follow these instructions. It'll be a big help.

    (BTW, as far as I can tell camber and toe appear to function as they do in real life. Is that the general consensus?)
  4. CSLACR

    United States
    PSN:GTP_CSL

    I believe so.
  5. esoxhntr

    Canada toronto

    panjandrum, other than the ride height, the opinions you've been given on suspension settings in gt5 are backwards. in my opinion. :D

    best bet is to experiment yourself and see what works for you.
  6. Rotary Junkie

    Premium
    United States Canton, MI
    PSN:RJs_RX-7

    There's a reason I said stuff works "right" some of the time and backwards other times. ;)
  7. Adi3567

    chicago IL USA
    PSN:adi3567

    Maybe it works right on some cars and backwards on others...
  8. Rotary Junkie

    Premium
    United States Canton, MI
    PSN:RJs_RX-7

    It depends on both the car and the settings you're tweaking from. If you've got two of the same car, one set up one way and the other another, one will respond differently to any given tweak than the other.
  9. Adi3567

    chicago IL USA
    PSN:adi3567

    Did
    you figure out exactly how it works?
  10. CSLACR

    United States
    PSN:GTP_CSL

    And yet I'll bet he finds that it's exactly true.

    When I see a single shred of evidence that a stiffer rear can ever increase over-steer in GT5, maybe I'll change my mind.:tup:

    And that's all I have to say on the matter.
  11. shirakawaa

    Premium
    None  
    PSN:GTP_shirakawaa

    The evidence that it's not backward is that stiffer rear springs do prevent rear suspensions from bottoming out on road bumps, if they were with softer springs. You can check this with the new Tire Load Indicator. A car to experiment this easily is the premium Shelby Cobra 427, which comes as stock with a low ride height and very soft suspensions.
  12. CSLACR

    United States
    PSN:GTP_CSL

    We've already covered that they have the proper "effects" in that way.
    Lower rear, rear lowers, stiffen front, front gets stiffer.

    I'm talking about how they effect cornering, and in every single car, on every track, online, offline, grip real/low, any combo you can think of, a stiffer front will give you more oversteer, as will a lower rear.

    I'm not concerned to discuss "how it should be" one bit, because it always turns into people trying to "prove" single case scenarios while at the same time talking about all the variables, and none of it matters for playing the game.
    In the game, making a softer rear will increase over-steer, in any and all cases, as does stiffening the front. Whether you or anyone reading considers it "backwards" or not isn't my agenda, just how the game works.

    The semantics of variables are over-discussed on this site to begin with, so I've decided to refrain from all discussions of it.
  13. MrGrado

    Australia Perth
    PSN:MrGrado

    Evidence of increased rear spring rate causing increase of oversteer.

    Regular rear spring rate:

    [​IMG]

    Increased rear spring rate:

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    The track is autumn mini, offline practice mode. The tune is ~500PP NSX RM available at my garage. The spring rate increased to max for second and third pictures. The pictures were all at the start of the first lap. The second and third pictures are in sequence.

    I did a full lap with increased rear spring rate and through the middle of the lap I would apply heavy throttle and if there wasn't any oversteer the car would run wider but it's clear there is increased oversteer in turn one.

    I also think there are cases where lower rear spring rate can cause oversteer too. If you have maybe a muscle car with low weight over rear wheels and you have very soft rear suspension I think the car may oversteer due to the rear suspension not giving adequate control at the rear of the car. The same thing in some high power race cars too. I struggled with my Nomad Diablo tune until I had made the rear suspension stiff enough to control the car, this original tune can be found at Avid racing factory
  14. CSLACR

    United States
    PSN:GTP_CSL

    First off, I've tuned NSX's, and the same rules applied to them as any other car.
    Second off, a picture or even video of a sliding car is not "proof" by any stretch of the word.

    Most importantly, when I tuned the NSX, the stock front springs were stiffer then the rear, reversing this immediately helped stop over-steer.

    Lastly, there is no way to "prove" to someone else what suspension changes do, we're all entitled to our own opinions, and for me, the day increasing rear spring rate increases over-steer on any car, will be the day PD changes the way tuning settings work.
  15. esoxhntr

    Canada toronto

    i thought that was all you had to say on the matter. :sly:

    you're entitled to your opinions but, don't preach them as gospel.
  16. CSLACR

    United States
    PSN:GTP_CSL

    The stock NSX over-steers, we all know that. If what you say is true, why did you reverse the suspension? Stock the front is stiffer, your tune has a stiffer rear, why would you tune the car that over-steers to over-steer even more?
    Because stiffening the rear decreased over-steer.

    Your posted tune only adds to it, rather then disprove it in any way.
  17. I didn't want to start an argument - why does every thread turn into an argument?

    I really just wanted a quick and concise guide to "what's backwards and what isn't" (we had the same problem with GT4). It was just way too confusing trying to think what I would do in reality and then try to remember which settings were reversed. Thus I thought that maybe, instead of tuning guides which try to look at reality and apply it to GT5, it might be nice just to have a guide as to what really works what way in GT5, ignoring reality along the way. So thanks again for the "short version" of the guide.

    For those arguing, using the backwards method definitely and quite clearly works for me. Every car I've tuned exhibits less oversteer as I stiffen the back as compared to the front, or soften the front as compared to the back. And that *is* the reverse of reality for the most part. On my Porsche, for example, I can go from "nice and neutral" to "holy-moly loose" just by adjusting my rear sway bar from a softer setting to the stiffest setting. And that's what most real-world tuning guides will give you as a general rule-of-thumb. And that's why so many of us see GT4/5 suspension tuning as "backwards". But that's probably simplistic. In reality the "softer end sticks better" is not an absolute truism. For example, a stiffer front sway-bar setting is usually said to increase understeer, but depending on the car, suspension type, setup etc. it might actually prevent the chassis from leaning enough that you maintain a better contact patch and thus you might decrease understeer instead of increasing it. My Beetle, with it's antiquated suspension based out of the 1940's, understeers less as I stiffen the front because I'm able to retain a more consistent (and larger) contact patch on the front end. Stiffening the rear (adjustable shocks on that end plus a heavy sway bar) cause the swing-axle design to react very strangely and to hit the limiter-straps (to prevent wheel tuck) too often, so that's a real juggling act between stiff enough and too stiff, and it probably doesn't react the same way to that adjustment as most other cars would. So it's not a surprise that we have differing opinions. What works for some, or even most cars won't necessarily work for all of them.
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2011
  18. CSLACR

    United States
    PSN:GTP_CSL

    Yes, the second half of this post is what I refer to when I say people get caught up in the details. (not saying you shouldn't, just that I don't care to)
    There is no "absolute" for what always happens IRL, because of the variables, and that's fine, people can go all day about those.

    But as you've seen, in GT5, variables don't exist the way they do IRL, and the staple form of tuning for GT5 is to stiffen the front for over-steer, and the rear for under-steer.
    Out of the 100 or more cars I've now tuned or tweaked, not a single one has fallen outside this ruling, and I've seen where people get theories for opposite effects.
    Those theories usually involve using ride height and camber to fight against the suspension inclination, for example, a lower front end for understeer, a stiffer front for over-steer, and then more camber on the rear to stop the over-steer the rest of the tune sets off.
    There's many combinations to have a car with a stiffer front suspension end up under-steering, but you'll have to set the suspension to fight itself, which is something I would never advise.
    But the believers say it's because their setup is working in tandem, i.e, a lower front needs a stiffer spring, etc. While this is true, knowing a lower front ride height increases under-steer, and stiffer spring increases over-steer, they should know that it's still "backwards" for what's considered the "norm" in real world tuning.

    And that's why I say "in any and every case", because while you can hide (intentional or not) what the settings do through other settings, it doesn't change what the settings actually do.
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2011
  19. esoxhntr

    Canada toronto

    What tune did I post? I think you have me confused with someone else. I'm not a sharing kind of guy. :)
  20. esoxhntr

    Canada toronto

    Agreed. Too soft a front and the car will not turn well. I think PD modeled 'tire rolling over'. I've noticed instances of cars 'washing out' where a car will turn in fine but subsequently 'wash out'. This can sometimes be attributed to the tire rolling over and a stiffer front sway bar will help both IRL and in the game. However, this is an issue outside what's being discussed here, balancing a car.
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2011
  21. CSLACR

    United States
    PSN:GTP_CSL

    You're right, I was mistaken.

    In that case, there's a nice example of how someone had to stiffen the rear of an NSX to tame the over-steer up on that page. :)
  22. esoxhntr

    Canada toronto

    Which page? Which NSX?

    The NSX (and most MRs, ie. Elise, MR2), have a higher percentage of weight in the rear and would have a stiffer SR in the rear than front stock. Not vicey versa.
  23. Muffinland

    United States Michigan
    PSN:Muffinland

    i feel like im the only person here having an issue. it wont open with any of the choices it gives me. help?

    EDIT: nvm
    Last edited: Feb 2, 2012
  24. paulamag

    United Kingdom cheshire
    PSN:r-smales

    anybody have the tune ups for the nascar race cars as need to reset again and frgot what settings were at !!!
  25. bond007tsf2

    United States Florida
    PSN:bond007tsf2

    Is there an tuning app for Android? This would help a bunch! :)
  26. MikaelK

    Denmark Denmark
    PSN:MikaelK_70 / GTP_MikaelK

    Yes, there is... :)
    Search on Google Play for 'GT5 Tuner'.

    Works like a charm, to keep the details of your tunes, and it also have the function to create 'QuickTunes' based on Opposites work (published in another thread).
  27. Does this still apply to gt5? The suspension part.
    EDIT: I'm trying to understand what to do with suspension when there are lots of bumps. To keep the wheels on the ground do I need lower or higher rates. Dampers?
    Last edited: Oct 7, 2012
  28. Hi. I´m new here in this forum. Also I would like to thank you for this guide I´ll check it ASAP. see you

    gtrpilot
  29. BFBullpup

    Premium
    United States Framingham
    PSN:BFBullpup

    Thanks for both tuning guides, Scaff. It has enabled me to keep up with human opponents and better understand how cars work in general.
  30. DolHaus

    England Saltash
    PSN:Dolhaus

    I might be wrong here, but i think the LSD acc section is backwards, says that a higher value will reduce wheel spin when I'm sure that it increases it? Cars set for drift are given a high acc setting which promotes wheel spin and reduces grip whereas reducing the setting makes it easier to get out of a corner without losing traction.
    Great guides none the less, taught me all the basics of tuning and helped me no end
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