[GUIDE] So you want to drive without ABS... (please read OP)

[FordMKIVJ5]

So you want to Drive without ABS...

Taking the step to driving without ABS is a big one, the new characteristics unlocked from each car mean that driving in GT5 takes on a whole new dimension.

Starting Out

Input Devices:
Controller- difficult and I wouldn't advise it. That's not to say that it's not possible/fun. Recommended to set the brake and gas to either the right stick or to L2/R2.
DFGT (what I use)/G25/G27- Relatively mushy brake pedal, but the force feedback makes up for it in terms of feeling the brakes. Never had a real issue with the mushiness though.
Higher end (Clubsports etc.)- Should be great, never tried anything like this myself.

At the end of the day, no pedal is going to replicate the feedback you get from a real life brake.

Car choice and track choice are important to starting out. Choose a low powered car that you're comfortable with and is, most importantly, stable.

I'd recommend something like the Premium Honda Civic Type-R (EK) completely stock. It doesn't take too much to lock the wheels, however when it does it's neutral and doesn't spit you off into the nearest barrier. This way you can get used to dealing with front wheel lock up and learn how the car reacts. I'd certainly recommend front wheel drive cars to start with. RWD cars tend to react very differently to braking.

Track choice is also rather important, although it may not seem it. You'll want to choose something that has nice, simple corners that don't require some deft brake work: avoid Daytona, Suzuka and Tsukuba as turn 1 at those tracks are a nightmare to the inexperienced no ABSer. I'd recommend something like Monza to get used to high-speed braking and something like Nurburgring GP/D for more complexity and a bit more trailbraking.

Beginner's guide to no ABS brake balance settings:

What you have to realise when beginning driving with no ABS is that no car has the same braking characteristic. Some will be supremely stable (generally speaking FFs), some will react violently to trail braking (generally 4WDs and MRs) and some will have very little threshold before the tyres lock (Camaro SS '10 etc.).

First things first, brake balance is your friend. The GT5 standard 5:5 brake balance will send you into a spin the first time you touch the brakes. Because of this, you have to adjust the brake balance to suit each vehicle's individual characteristics, both through the overall braking power (how high your values are) and the ratio of front to rear bias. Generally speaking a bias at which the front locks before the rear is desirable, as in the case of lock up, you'll plow into the corner, rather than going in taillights first.

Technically having a brake bias where you can lock the brakes at any speed is best because you can reach the threshold at any speed, however I've found it to be faster and certainly more consistent to set so you can hold 100% for a few seconds (i.e. you'll lock up below 100mph). This is also a lot more realistic and a lot more fun.

Here's my method for getting a reasonable setting:

Road Cars:

Starting balance: 4:2

From there, if you find you are locking up the front too easily, move each value down 1, to 3:1. If you still find you're locking the front too easily, try 2:1 or 2:0. Beyond that you are losing too much braking force at high speed. It's also good to note that a brake value of 0, does not mean no braking on those wheels, it is just the minimum value.

In some cars, for example a lot of 4WD cars, you'll find that the rear slides out under trailbraking. This is why I always use a starting value of 5:2 for 4WDs. If you find you're locking too easily, try 4:1.

For MR cars, they are always a bit unstable and even with a good BB setting they'll generally still get loose when trailbraking. However start from 4:2 and tailor from there. With MRs, I generally find 4:2 or 4:1 to be best.

Racing Cars

Starting Balance: 6:3 (for older cars I'd start with 4-2, for example I use 4:1 on my Ford GT MkIV)

Because racing cars have higher grip tyres and downforce, they can withstand more braking force. That's not to say, however, that some racing cars won't lock easily. For example, the Autobacs Garaiya lock it's front tyres rather easily, so for that car I use a balance of 4:2.

Apply the same rules as for road cars to tailor your BB. Locking the rear? Try 6:2 or 5:2. Locking the front too easily? Try 4:2 or 5:2.

Important notes on BB setting:

• 
  
  
  • These are just my tips, some people like to use higher balances, some people like lower ones. Find what suits you.
  • Each track may require a different balance. A track with lots of high speed braking zones (La Sarthe, Monza etc.) might be better if you raise your BB a bit. A track like Laguna Seca where trailbraking is very important and the heavy braking zones are bumpy (T2 & Corkscrew), might be better suited with a slightly lower bias.
  • Locking the inside wheel isn't necessarily a BB issue. It can also be down to a bad diff setting. The Deceleration value can be tailored to lock the inside or outside wheel first, try to get a happy medium.
  • Adjust your BB to suit the situation you're using it in. For example, in a one off hot lap, running higher brake balances is preferable to gain that higher braking force (especially at high speed). However in a race where tyre wear is a factor, you may want to lower your BB slightly to minimise lock up.
  • You'll also want to change you BB to suit the state of both the weather and the state of your tyres. If it's wet, you'll lock up a lot faster (I mean a lot, it's very easy to underestimate) so keep the same ration of F:R, but lower the values (using 6:3? Go to 4:2 or even 2:1 etc.). If your front tyres are getting worn too fast, flick the rear value up slightly, or take 1 click off your front one. If your rears are wearing, put a bit more front on. You'll also want to change your bias even if they're wearing evenly, however, keep the same ratio.

General Tips for Braking with no ABS

• 
  
  
  • First off and very importantly; don't be afraid of locking up, it's not that big a deal. Simply ease back up on the pedal until your tyres regain grip. Don't jump off the pedal, especially if your turning, as that unsettles the car and will send an already unstable car, over the edge.
  • Listen and (if you're using a wheel) Feel. Due to the distinct lack of feedback that your pedal/stick/button gives you, you need to learn to listen to when the tyres are close to locking and, more importantly, feel it in the force feedback. You'll know when you feel it, it's a lightening of the wheel.
  • Understand threshold braking: The faster you are going the more force the brakes can apply to the tyres, as your speed decreases, so does the brake threshold (the exact point at which the tyre loses grip and locks). This means that in order to brake without ABS you need to tailor your brake pressure according to the speed at which you're entering the corner. For a fast corner, you may need to apply 100% pressure for a split second before slowly easing the pedal out, keeping it in line with the brake threshold for maximum braking efficiency. This is tricky to do and will take some practise. You can always hold a steady lowish pressure, however you will not be braking as effectively.
  • Trail Braking: turning uses up some of the available grip of your tyres, this means that in order to trail brake into a corner, you can't use all the available grip of the tyres by threshold braking. Instead you have to adjust your braking to the amount of steering angle you are using. More steering angle=less brake pressure. Simples.
  • When using no ABS you need to be aware of the track surface, if there's a bump in the braking zone (Corkscrew, Tokyo Reverse T1) you need to modulate the brake pedal to avoid lock up (ease up).
  • Some cars just don't work well without ABS, some do. Car choice is a key part of enjoying no ABS driving.
  • Smoking the inside wheel every now and then doesn't really matter, we all do it, however in a race where tyre wear is a factor, you may want to be a little more cautious.
  • Use it to your advantage. Some cars, especially 4WD ones, you can slide the car slightly by braking and turning hard. I find that if used correctly and appropriately, this can help you immensely on twisty tracks.
  • Don't be afraid to race people using ABS, challenge yourself.
    
    But why would I want to make myself slower?...
    
    Simply put, you won't. If you spend enough time practising and develop a feel for the brakes you'll be putting in times on a par with your ABS times. The fact is that if you get a perfect lap without ABS, it will be as good as one with, however you have more things to go wrong and therefore might not be as consistent.
    
    It will take time to get used to no ABS, it isn't going to happen overnight. So don't expect to be able to match your ABS times straight away, it may well take a good 10 hours of practise to get anywhere close.
    
    You need to practise. You need to get to know what brake balances work for you, how much you can brake while turning and the way the car reacts to braking in general.
    _____________________________________________________________________________________
    
    And most important of all: Have Fun
    It's not for some people and don't try and force it if you don't enjoy it. However, don't disregard turning ABS off without giving it a proper go first. 👍

I searched but couldn't find anything similar, however, apologies if it's already been done.

Anyway, I hope this is helpful and if anyone has any suggestions of what to add, please tell me and I'll do so.

 

[Ridox2JZGTE]

Great guide, Ford, this should have been done sooner, now if only this thread and the ABS 0 Community where are you ? thread can also be stickied. That would help a lot for people who are learning or starting ABS 0 driving

 

[FordMKIVJ5]

Thanks. 👍

 

[X-Power]

Good guide. I recently started driving with no ABS and the physics feel much better now. I think the ABS in GT5 works more like a stability assist.

 

[amar212]

Here is my guide for the non-ABS, made for the wheel users few months ago.

NON-ABS BRAKING part #1
GENERAL ADVICES

- Different tyre-compounds call for the slightly different Brake Balance. You will notice how there is a difference in values if you experiment with the Comfort and Sport compound. However, it goes into category of the fine-tuning so results through experimenting will come with the time

- *ABS* in GT5 is not representation of the real-life ABS, it just uses that "name". ABS in GT5 is some kind of permanent braking assist *override* that not only prevents wheel-lock, but also have some invisible traction-control that nullify the suspension-modelling and equalises unique characteristics of the vehicles resulting with ability to turn while braking and never loose grip

- when ABS is OFF many cars will just go to snap-oversteer once the brakes are applied in full. You must never brake with full-constant power - you would never brake like that in the real-life too. In order to get maximum for your braking, you have to learn to brake is *sequences* - press/release/press/release/press/release/etc.

- you have to reconsider everything you know about braking-points and configurations for every track. With ABS off, suspension modelling becomes "free" and suddenly all elevations (lateral and longitudinal) of the surface becomes major factor in the driving. The sensation is vastly different than with ABS ON, so be prepared to revise everything you've learned to that point.

- all FR/MR/RR cars - being road or racing - have to be set with front bias noticeably stronger than rear. Through my testing I still haven't found any single FR/MR/RR car that calls for BB of the rear-brakes stronger than 2. To be honest, majority needs only 1. The key is to find proper front-strength with rear-one adjusted to point where rear brakes does not lock the rear-axle. You will know the point where rear-axle is not compromised once the car does not launch itself into snap-oversteer when braking. Once you set the rear-strength and bypass axle-lockup, you may fell that car is not stopping properly as it should. From that point, you have to force the front strength of braking until you find desired power.

On the above note, one of my last tests gave me 6/1 bias for the Ford Mark IV Race Car '67 where I needed 6/1 for proper balance of the stopping power.

NON ABS BRAKING Part #2
HOW TO MAKE NON-ABS BRAKING ACTUALLY WORK IN PRAXIS

This one have few steps.

Step A > The Mighty Sponge Ball™

Brake-pedals on all of the middle-prices wheels - Logitech DFP, DFGT, etc.. - are too loose and too soft to produce a usable sensitivity of travel in order to cope with the non-ABS braking. However, for there is a solution for that problem: The Mighty Sponge Ball™

Solution is simple: just insert the sponge under the brake and you're ready to go. Sponge will allow you to dose the actual brake-power more subtly and to actually have control of the brake-travel.

Of course, any hard-sponged material will do even better than simple sponge ball, especially high-density sponges, like neoprene for example. Once you've settled the step A) it is time for step B.

Step B > The Brake Balance Adjustment ™ - The Key to Master the non-ABS Braking

In order to achieve maximum performance and feel out of the GT5 physics engine and wheel support, you have to manually tweak few options in the game and accept few issues. First, you should go to the wheel option and set the steering to Simulation (although it affects only 270-wheels, but it is no-brainer, so just do it) and turn the Power Steering to OFF.

As for accepting issues, there is one thing you have to get use to when going into the universe of the non-ABS braking: you have to manually dial the ABS to OFF for the every car prior to the race in the Race Settings menu (unfortunately, you can't do it in the Settings menu in the Garage for the car of your choice). Once done, you're ready for the most important thing: The Brake Balance Adjustment ™

By default, every car in GT5 comes with Brake Balance set to 5/5 (front/rear). With ABS OFF and the default 5/5 value, there is no way you can properly drive the car, because that default value is messing the complete balance of the suspension and produces practically undrivable car. So, you have to manually adjust the Brake Balance for the every car you wish to use with ABS OFF.

General idea about adjust the Brake Balance comes form basic presumption of weight-distribution behaviour while braking: when you brake, the central mass of the vehicle and inertia moves from the back to the front. Thus all cars in real life have bigger and stronger brakes on the front-wheels and GT5 utilises the same logic. In order to adjust the BB, you have to re-distribute the BB values towards front. But before going onto that, one explanation.

Although Gran Turismo 5 uses the name of ABS (Anti Brake-Lock System) for that particular assist, I personally do not find it as representation/simulation of the actual ABS. I think it is nothing more than basic braking-assist which *overrides* the intertia-momentum on suspension and nullify the wheel-lock. Even ABS1 is too effective in what it does, so I do not find any mean in having the option to set it up to 10 (which game allows), so basically it is *ABS* just by name. I see it as nothing else but basic brake assist tool. Now back to BB setting.

Every car BB is different, but there is some generalisation possible. FR, RR and MR cars will all benefit from the higher setting towards the front. For example, I mainly use 3/1 setting for majority of my road FR, RR and MR cars. Of course, there are exceptions like Ferrari F40 where sheer mass of the vehicle asks for higher setting in the front in order to achieve proper distribution of the weight and stop the rear-axle from going into oversteer because of the insufficient braking-power on the front wheels > so for the F40 I use 5/1 setting for example and for F430 4/1 (I also use 4/1 for SLS, LFA, M3 and similar vehicles).

**notice: after the new suspension model introduced by 2.07 "Academy" update, the rear-axle balance is always best to keep in "1". If on "2", it will lock the rear-brakes too much, thus "1" is the only proper balance.

Actual weight of the vehicle makes a lot of difference too. Ferrari 599 calls for the 5/1 setting (Sport Hard tyres) because of the weight, while stock Corvette ZR-1 C6 RM - you mentioned it in your post - calls for 6/1 balance in order to achieve stability and efficiency of braking.

For FF and 4WD cars I generally use 3/2 or 4/3 setting in order to combat understeer on the front-wheels. GT does not take pad-size into concern (check the SHIRAKAWA Akira's elaborate here), but in order to combat understeer and lockup on FF and 4WD cars I tend to *equalize* the pressure on the front-axle by minimizing the deistribution of the braking-balance from the front wheels and force the rear-axle oversteer in order to have natural entry to the apex.

PLEASE NOTICE that I use Fanatec CSP pedals and values I've described are made with that in focus. Many of my friends who use Logitech G25/27 are using slightly lower settings (where I use 4/1 they use 3/1, etc..) because the threshold of the actual brake-sets is different for every manufacturer. Experimenting is the key.

Another thing becomes important when advanced settings comes into perspective: such as having Tire Wear ON, or driving on the wet surfaces with changeable weather/track conditions. To cut it short, the RA Adjust Functions (that in-race screen you can call-in and adjust some setting on the fly in the real-time with either Manetino-wheel on your DFGT or button-combination on the other wheels) becomes very important during the advanced races, because the tire-heat and degradation can call for altering the BB, as well as the wet surfaces. However, you will come to the appropriate conclusions by yourself through experimenting during time.

Small notice is how settings adjusted through RAMenu menu does not *stay* on the car through the venues if you quit the race before the end. So if you changed the settings during your Free Time run in online-lounge fro example, you will not have them applied once the race starts > values are set to those in main car-Settings menu. So if you come to the better solution through RAMenu during the Free race, you will have to alter them again through RAMenu once the race starts if you didn't changed them in the Settings menu.

Of course, GT5 now offers option to save multiple Settings (A/B/C, in the Settings menu), so you can manually set the ABS OFF setting for every car in one of the "Sheets" - under the B for example - in order to use it when you like. Notice how another issue is that you have to first set the desired Setting Sheet (B for example), than go to Race Options and set ABS to OFF, and than come back to settings and apply the proper BB settings. That is because once you set the ABS to OFF in the Race Option settings (where "A Settings Sheet" is always default one), it stays like that for the particular car everywhere you go with it (including online). If you opt for ABS OFF in the default "A Settings Sheet" so you will have to manually re-set it to 1 every time you want to race the car with the ABS ON. A bit confusing, but once you get used to it, it becomes just another Gran Turismo Player Masochistic Routine™.


NON-ABS BRAKING part #3
Step C >Every Car Becomes Unique Without ABS™

I know that all above probably sounds complicating, but in fact it is not. Once you install the The Mighty Sponge Ball™ (for users of wheels that needs one) and get used to the logic of the Brake Balance settings, the new world opens. Once you disengage the braking-assist (one we call the ABS for reasons of commodity and easier perception for the casual players) you will finally get the proper feeling of the unique physics of the every car.

Disengaging the brake-assist and diving into the world of proper Brake Balance settings will enhance the unique "characteristics sensation" for every vehicle and make it even more *recognisable*. Once you begin to utilise the correct BB settings, you will be able to actually feel the pavement-ripping torque of the F40, the feel of the Aventador's mass decelerating while eating the front tires or difference between the braking-characteristics of all GT500 cars which pretty much handles inside the same handicap while ABS is turned on.

Take your time and test on the low-powered cars for start, preferably on Tsukuba and than moving to the Trial Mountain. Mazdas MX-5/RX-7 are great for FR cars basics, and once you master them you can move to the MR class with the F430 as the best car for that task. Of course, test all of them with their default tires in order to develop the feel for the actual tire-threshold and BB values you need to apply.

Good luck and I hope you'll have the great time once you indulge yourself into this beautiful universe.

 

[CJSpencer77]

Good work Ford, hopefully your guide will help ease some more GT5 fans into ABS 0 and re discover the game.

 

[Ridox2JZGTE]

Here is my guide for the non-ABS, made for the wheel users few months ago. Snip ...

Awesome post Amar , very detailed explanation and well written, if I were the one who wrote something in similar idea, I would have been branded as "elitist" I am not good at choosing words It has happened in the past, some people dislike the word "no ABS" and become aggressively defensive

 

[GTP_CargoRatt]

Awesome post Amar , very detailed explanation and well written, if I were the one who wrote something in similar idea, I would have been branded as "elitist" I am not good at choosing words It has happened in the past, some people dislike the word "no ABS" and become aggressively defensive

Thats because almost everytime you enter a thread, you immediatly start off by bragging on yourself and how you use no aids and belittle the ones that do. You continue on that if people don't subscribe to your ideas on how they should play "their" game, they are nothing but noobs. You can't seem to give advice without also bragging on yourself and thats what pisses most people off. Nothing personal, you are just not that good at giving advice.

 

[Ridox2JZGTE]

Thats because almost everytime you enter a thread, you immediatly start off by bragging on yourself and how you use no aids and belittle the ones that do. You continue on that if people don't subscribe to your ideas on how they should play "their" game, they are nothing but noobs. You can't seem to give advice without also bragging on yourself and thats what pisses most people off. Nothing personal, you are just not that good at giving advice.

I never felt did any of those - bragging and belittle others nor do I ever say the word "noobs", I never said I could do fast lap times either ( bragging in my view ), my main point was that in my opinion having ABS is like depending on assist to get faster, thus to my view, those times made with it on are not that commendable, I would give more merit to those who do not use assist for their effort, how is that bad for having different point of view ? I don't think using no aids as bragging right at all.

And only a few members here have that issue with me, more than likely less than 10 who directly reply to my post. Why get so overly sensitive over it ? Like I am hurting someone's feeling or pride ... anyway, that is just how bad my choices of words, I am sorry if I am not perfect in giving written statement, but some people overblown it with elitist treatment, even accusing me of calling other's cheaters ( I never even wrote that word ) Weirdly, those who do not use ABS never have issue with me, so go figure.

 

[FordMKIVJ5]

Please don't argue. This thread is meant as an useful resource to those wanting to try no ABS.

 

[Ridox2JZGTE]

Please don't argue. This thread is meant as an useful resource to those wanting to try no ABS.

Sorry if I cause any inconvenience, it's just that I often got these kind of replies, I never dwell on it, and I won't say anything further, I have made my point. I would gladly help anyone who wants to learn or try no ABS

 

[GTP_CargoRatt]

Please don't argue. This thread is meant as an useful resource to those wanting to try no ABS.

Not arguing, just stating how I feel about how he expresses himself to others. Also, I have had others pm me agreeing with what I have said. It doesn't make you a bad person, you just have a poor choice of words sometimes. And, for the record, I do and can use ABS 0 when the time calls for it. Otherwise, I'm not going to handicap myself when everyone else is using ABS 1 for competition.
Nice thread Ford and I'm sure others can learn from it if they chose. Sorry I got off topic a bit.
And to Ridox: Nothing personal, you just need to better phrase your advice, thats all.

 

[FordMKIVJ5]

That's all I mean, I could just see this dragging on for a few pages, which really isn't what I want. 👍

 

[Saidur_Ali]

I found 3F/2R to work well for Toyota 86 GT at recent seasonal. Very well balanced.

First time not using ABS on time trial, Ridox2JZGTE constantly saying about no ABS got into my head to try it . Did not spend too much time on it, maybe would have got into top 10 if spent more time and got a car with dirty oil.

You can drive more or less as well with no ABS as with ABS if you get used to it. I don't think no ABS is that realistic in GT5 due to it being too unstable but can be good fun. If people are worried about it taking long to learn, it doesn't if you understand what is happening and should be able to learn through trial and error after taking onboard tips in this thread. Timewise, it could take you a matter of a few minutes to quite a few hour sessions to get good at braking with no ABS. Balancing car with throttle helps especially final part of braking for corner.

 

[Ridox2JZGTE]

I found 3F/2R to work well for Toyota 86 GT at recent seasonal. Very well balanced.

First time not using ABS on time trial, Ridox2JZGTE constantly saying about no ABS got into my head to try it . Did not spend too much time on it, maybe would have got into top 10 if spent more time and got a car with dirty oil.

You can drive more or less as well with no ABS as with ABS if you get used to it. I don't think no ABS is that realistic in GT5 due to it being too unstable but can be good fun. If people are worried about it taking long to learn, it doesn't if you understand what is happening and should be able to learn through trial and error after taking onboard tips in this thread. Timewise, it could take you a matter of a few minutes to quite a few hour sessions to get good at braking with no ABS. Balancing car with throttle helps especially final part of braking for corner.

What sort of input device do you use ? I have heard quite often that some wheels/pedals are hard to master when driving without ABS, lock ups and no feel seems to be the common issue. We need to have a guide for each wheels/pedals that most GTP user have - G25, DFGT,G27, etc which enable them to easily get into no ABS without much issues - like pedal travel, no feedback,etc.

Some drivers who are fast to adapt like you can drive with ABS 0 in minutes or hours, I spend good 6 months to get used to it and get close to decent ABS1 time on seasonals TT or GTA, having a stick might have something to do as well

IMO, stability issue when ABS 0 is more to the way the brakes applied and the BB used, I personally rarely have unstable braking issue, even if I have , usually a few tweaks with BB or LSD can cure it.

 

[goofycool]

Nice thread Ford. I'm glad that you addressed the LSD with regards to no ABS while trail braking. What have you found out about suspension settings with regards to no ABS? It seems to me that braking is very dependent on suspension settings. While testing for the Le Mans 24 hour, my car didn't feel too bad but the AIs were outbraking me badly at the end of the Mulsanne straight. After I made an adjustment of adding 1.0 to the front springs, I could easily hold even with them while braking there. I think that I wound up with a 3/2 bb. Seems to me that no ABS braking is very sensitive to the entire chassis setup. That sucks for me because I can't tune my way out of a paper bag.

 

[FordMKIVJ5]

Thanks, yes setup is a big part of no ABS.

Generally a stiffer car will give you more straight line grip (in GT5), so it makes sense that it helps your braking. However if you over stiffen your car will "hop" over the bumps over the track and you'll have far more chance of locking up. 👍

The second damper/shock setting (think it's compression) is useful for curing over rotation when trailbraking. I always have a higher rear than front without ABS as rotation is accentuated. 👍

Not sure on other settings. And this was how it worked until the 2.08 update, not too sure since it.

As far as I understand a lower Deceleration LSD value will lock the inside wheel earlier, a higher one, the outside wheel.

 

[GTP_CargoRatt]

What sort of input device do you use ? I have heard quite often that some wheels/pedals are hard to master when driving without ABS, lock ups and no feel seems to be the common issue. We need to have a guide for each wheels/pedals that most GTP user have - G25, DFGT,G27, etc which enable them to easily get into no ABS without much issues - like pedal travel, no feedback,etc.

Some drivers who are fast to adapt like you can drive with ABS 0 in minutes or hours, I spend good 6 months to get used to it and get close to decent ABS1 time on seasonals TT or GTA, having a stick might have something to do as well

IMO, stability issue when ABS 0 is more to the way the brakes applied and the BB used, I personally rarely have unstable braking issue, even if I have , usually a few tweaks with BB or LSD can cure it.

This is a very good idea Ridox. The more expensive pedals (CRS, CRS Elite, etc) use a different type of brake pedal mechanism as opposed to the medium priced pedals. (G27, etc) I just ordered the CRS Elite and I'm sure its going to take me a minute to get used to that brake pedal as opposed to my G27 pedals. I briefly tried out the CRS Elite and I can tell you the feel of the brakes with that pedal set is different, in a good way. So yea, you have a good idea here and I think it should be followed up on for this thread.

 

[Ridox2JZGTE]

Increasing rear LSD braking value can also help with rear oversteer while trail braking, although too much will cause slight understeer. A rear positive value toe will also help, although not by much. If the front is easy to lock up, having low compression ( damper ) and slightly higher extension can help too, I think, not too sure yet

 

[Saidur_Ali]

What sort of input device do you use ? I have heard quite often that some wheels/pedals are hard to master when driving without ABS, lock ups and no feel seems to be the common issue. We need to have a guide for each wheels/pedals that most GTP user have - G25, DFGT,G27, etc which enable them to easily get into no ABS without much issues - like pedal travel, no feedback,etc.

Some drivers who are fast to adapt like you can drive with ABS 0 in minutes or hours, I spend good 6 months to get used to it and get close to decent ABS1 time on seasonals TT or GTA, having a stick might have something to do as well

IMO, stability issue when ABS 0 is more to the way the brakes applied and the BB used, I personally rarely have unstable braking issue, even if I have , usually a few tweaks with BB or LSD can cure it.

I'm using G27 but I think I will be able to drive the same way with a DFGT and stock pedals.

Took me a few minutes to adapt, a few trial and error attempts with no ABS braking gives me sort of a full picture and I was more or less just as competitive as with ABS.

I'm comparing against reality and other simulations, GT5 is a lot less stable in my opinion, dealable with once you get used to it after first few laps.

 

[Ridox2JZGTE]

I'm using G27 but I think I will be able to drive the same way with a DFGT and stock pedals.

Took me a few minutes to adapt, a few trial and error attempts with no ABS braking gives me sort of a full picture and I was more or less just as competitive as with ABS.

I'm comparing against reality and other simulations, GT5 is a lot less stable in my opinion, dealable with once you get used to it after first few laps.

Do you modified your pedal or use any trick ( sponge ) ? It's quite rare for Logitech wheels user to have no issue with no ABS in GT5. One of the testers of my tune in a tuning shootout who uses DFGT have a hard time driving my tunes without ABS, mostly due to lock up, I think he even reduce the BB to 3/1 just to be able to brake without lock ups and his time got hurt badly.

I am inviting any wheels user who have experience with ABS 0 to give some advice or maybe write a short guide, do or don't, what trick to use or mod to get into trailbraking with ease and effectively. Thanks Cargorat for the affirmation 👍

 

[Saidur_Ali]

Do you modified your pedal or use any trick ( sponge ) ? It's quite rare for Logitech wheels user to have no issue with no ABS in GT5. One of the testers of my tune in a tuning shootout who uses DFGT have a hard time driving my tunes without ABS, mostly due to lock up, I think he even reduce the BB to 3/1 just to be able to brake without lock ups and his time got hurt badly.

I am inviting any wheels user who have experience with ABS 0 to give some advice or maybe write a short guide, do or don't, what trick to use or mod to get into trailbraking with ease and effectively. Thanks Cargorat for the affirmation 👍

No modifications to pedals, just need to be used to travel. If you modify pedals to make it more resistive, you are still relying on same levels of travel to brake effectively on Logitech pedals but I guess some drivers prefer it as they can get some muscle memory easier. I prefer it like it is as it requires less effort, easier on equipment and faster for me. I'm a newbie when it comes to no ABS driving in GT5.

 

[GTP_CargoRatt]

Do you modified your pedal or use any trick ( sponge ) ? It's quite rare for Logitech wheels user to have no issue with no ABS in GT5. One of the testers of my tune in a tuning shootout who uses DFGT have a hard time driving my tunes without ABS, mostly due to lock up, I think he even reduce the BB to 3/1 just to be able to brake without lock ups and his time got hurt badly.

I am inviting any wheels user who have experience with ABS 0 to give some advice or maybe write a short guide, do or don't, what trick to use or mod to get into trailbraking with ease and effectively. Thanks Cargorat for the affirmation 👍

I'm using a Logitech for now and I don't have an issue with no ABS. I'm not as fast as I am with ABS 1, but I'm good enough to be competitive among equally skilled drivers.

 

[Ridox2JZGTE]

No modifications to pedals, just need to be used to travel. If you modify pedals to make it more resistive, you are still relying on same levels of travel to brake effectively on Logitech pedals but I guess some drivers prefer it as they can get some muscle memory easier. I prefer it like it is as it requires less effort, easier on equipment and faster for me. I'm a newbie when it comes to no ABS driving in GT5.

I'm using a Logitech for now and I don't have an issue with no ABS. I'm not as fast as I am with ABS 1, but I'm good enough to be competitive among equally skilled drivers.

Thanks guys for the response, so it seems to also involve drivers adapting ability. Those who have no issues with the pedal can adapt better and faster . Different driver have different level of skill as well as experience, now I have another suggestion, what about if anyone who is about to open a public room online for ABS 0 practice to post the room number here.

That way, anyone can join in for a track day or race to polish their braking skills in particular. A weekly themed room is also nice, stock cars, comfort tires, race cars, or tuned cars at various tracks, then maybe end the week with some short races with several different cars/drivetrain, just a friendly casual clean races.

 

[NCRthree]

Until I stumbled across Amar's post several months ago I found it impossible to use the DFGT pedals. I didn't have any Might Sponge Balls at my disposal so I cut up pieces of a firm sponge until I got sufficient resistance. Got a tile grout clean up sponge from Lowe's. Then I added a couple lightweight bungees as well. Works pretty well, at least it takes a fair amount of resistance to push 90-100% pedal travel.


Not having any information about BB settings made ABS 0 completely frustrating and uninviting. Worse is PD's default 5/5. What's up with that PD? No wonder the vast majority of GT5 players/tuners stuck with ABS 1 as default.

 

[NABeast]

Until I stumbled across Amar's post several months ago I found it impossible to use the DFGT pedals. I didn't have any Might Sponge Balls at my disposal so I cut up pieces of a firm sponge until I got sufficient resistance. Got a tile grout clean up sponge from Lowe's. Then I added a couple lightweight bungees as well. Works pretty well, at least it takes a fair amount of resistance to push 90-100% pedal travel.

Not having any information about BB settings made ABS 0 completely frustrating and uninviting. Worse is PD's default 5/5. What's up with that PD? No wonder the vast majority of GT5 players/tuners stuck with ABS 1 as default.

I also found The post by Amar several months ago and used it as a guide to practice non ABS racing. Been using the g27 for awhile and thought it would be an interesting to start learning ABS off. At first with the stock pedals it's just a little difficult to determine exactly how much pressure to apply since there is no feedback from the pedals at all. Then a friend bought the GTeye progressive brake spring and told me how nice it was,as he was still using ABS,so I thought I'd get one and try it. I must say I hated it at first but it's so nice,especially for non ABS driving. Sorry for the shameless plug.

The point is that driving without ABS just ads another physic to the driving experience in GT5. If you have a G27 buy the spring,or use a sponge ball,do something! Because its makes it a lot easier to modulate the brakes and learn the feel of the car. Thank you guys for the info and tips! I still have hundreds of cars to drive so I have a long way to go! Now I'm just wishing there was more adjustment of the brake balance,at least 0-20. It would add alot more definition to the feel of adjustments.

 

[Anathema]

From the FE10 Tuning House;

I use the same brake settings on almost every car I drive, whether I'm using ABS or not - 6 front, 9 rear. Gives me more kick and the slide feeling than a lower setting.
Really cannot explain my preference besides the fact that it seems to work well with anything for me.

I also use about 85% DS3 and 15% G25 - My G25 is nearly dead (numerous wiring issues that I've never managed to work out, even after re-installing the paddle shifters.) I'm not going to buy the PBS (progressive brake spring) because I don't use my wheel enough to make it a worthwhile purchase. At some point I will be getting a G27, but I really don't know when that's going to be.

For the time being, I use the DS3 (automatic only. I tried to make the switch to manual, but it affected my real life driving so I stopped with that.) I use the square button, but solution to the lock-up that you get with that is adjust the settings of the sensitivity of the buttons - or use the method I'm comfortable with, which happens to be braking early while still holding the gas (trying to smoothly transfer your thumb pressure between the buttons.)

It took me a long bit of practice, but when I do run ABS off, I'm confident in my abilities.

 

[Johnnypenso]

Do you modified your pedal or use any trick ( sponge ) ? It's quite rare for Logitech wheels user to have no issue with no ABS in GT5. One of the testers of my tune in a tuning shootout who uses DFGT have a hard time driving my tunes without ABS, mostly due to lock up, I think he even reduce the BB to 3/1 just to be able to brake without lock ups and his time got hurt badly.

I am inviting any wheels user who have experience with ABS 0 to give some advice or maybe write a short guide, do or don't, what trick to use or mod to get into trailbraking with ease and effectively. Thanks Cargorat for the affirmation 👍

I've used ABS=0 on and off for several months, depending on where I'm racing. I added a bungee cord to the brake pedal of the my DFGT when I first got it almost 2 years ago and when I started experimenting with no ABS, I put various things behind the brake pedal to improve feel, and finally settled for a very soft sponge ball I found in a local Dollar Store.

My typical setting is 2-4 front and 0-1 back but I'm usually racing street cars on street tires. Race cars or cars on stickier tires I'd use higher numbers. The trick for trailbraking is getting used to much lighter brake pressures. I've watched my replays and often find myself trailbraking with 20% or less brake pressure, sometimes barely moving the brake meter. I'm doing it by feel as I'm driving obviously, not watching the meter for brake pressure. On lower PP cars and street tires my lap times are the same with or without ABS.

Don't be afraid to use lower balances to avoid lockup. There are only miniscule differences between the low end and the high end of the BB scale in terms of braking distances and lower BB's tend to keep the car more settled and predictable, often making for smoother laps. If you can lock up the front end with a setting of 2 for example, obviously anything above 2 will not lower braking distance, but it will reduce the amount of pedal travel necessary to reach lock up, meaning you have a much smaller effective range of brake pedal travel with progressively higher BB settings.

 

[FordMKIVJ5]

My typical setting is 2-4 front and 0-1 back but I'm usually racing street cars on street tires. Race cars or cars on stickier tires I'd use higher numbers. The trick for trailbraking is getting used to much lighter brake pressures. I've watched my replays and often find myself trailbraking with 20% or less brake pressure, sometimes barely moving the brake meter. I'm doing it by feel as I'm driving obviously, not watching the meter for brake pressure. On lower PP cars and street tires my lap times are the same with or without ABS.

Don't be afraid to use lower balances to avoid lockup. There are only miniscule differences between the low end and the high end of the BB scale in terms of braking distances and lower BB's tend to keep the car more settled and predictable, often making for smoother laps. If you can lock up the front end with a setting of 2 for example, obviously anything above 2 will not lower braking distance, but it will reduce the amount of pedal travel necessary to reach lock up, meaning you have a much smaller effective range of brake pedal travel with progressively higher BB settings.

Big point and one that takes a lot of getting used to (it's in my OP somewhere with an explanation of the grip levels etc.) for people making the transfer. 👍

Another point I've made is about people worrying about being slower. And it's simply not true, on a perfect lap with both, there'll be little to no difference. It's only because people aren't used to it that they're slower, if you're practiced with it there'll be little difference.

 

[FsharpAsharp]

Can I just say, what a great post. Thanks, I'm definitely going to use your tips. Even though I'm a padder, I'm pretty certain I can manage.