Manual shifting?

  • Thread starter Thread starter sicbeing
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Thanks for the input guys. I think I wanna start using MT in game. I just wanted to learn how well GT4 mimics what I do in real life. RedWolf, thanks for pointing out the power chart, I didn't realize you could expand it into detail. Also, the clutching technique you use is technically a bad habit, at least in real life it is. Again, I'm not how accurately the computer follows this. But, in proper real life driving theory, riding the clutch through a corner is slower. What this does is force the driver to either break traction on turn exit or slow the car slightly as the clutch is re-engaged during the exit. You're supposed to be in the correct exit gear before you even enter the turn, that's what heel-toe downshifts are for (which I don't even want to get into here). Again though, I don't know if any this even makes a difference in the game itself.
 
Viper Zero
Who drives automatic?!

Show yourself so I can laugh at you.
Click to expand...

Who here has driven manual since GT1??
Who's in the CLUB??
:):D:):D:)
LOL

L28eT

Edit: actually sometimes I use AT but I still use my R2 and L2 buttons to stay in a certain gear in a turn for more power out of it...
For example...
On a straight: I hold each gear to the maximum red in can go to for a tad more speed
In a turn on a low powered car...
Ill be coming into a turn about to shift to 3rd gear...I dont want to shift to 3rd so I hold 2nd gear and let it shift after I've taken the turn...so I have more power in the turn and out of it :)

L28eT
 
The easiest way I've found to find the proper shift point for each car is to test different ones out at the drag strip, and just use whatever is quickest.
 
I've played GTourismo with A/T until I bought the DFP. It was a pain in the ass to change gears on the normal controller...
Now, that's great to control the gearshifts.

And like punkrkr27 said:

Well I guess I should specify... is that true for all cars in the game? In real life that is not always the case. For example, my Mazda Protege5 has the redline marked at 6500rpm with a rev limiter at 7100 rpm. However, power actually falls off after 6000 rpm and it's best to shift there.

, you have to check the powerband of each car you're driving before determining the good time to upshift.
I have a Miata: the engine really kicks after 4000 rpm (1.6L, 16 valves) but loose power and torque after 5800 rpm (redzone starts at 6750rpm).
If you rev more, it's fust fun but useless because both curves are going down: It's better to upshift!
 
Absolutely dispise automatic, You don't have the same control over the car as some cars (especcially RR cars) have a tendancy for the back end just to let go if you let off the accelortor while cornering, now if you were using automatic and it changed gear not only may it slow you down but it may cause more tyre ware.

On the "Were do I change gears" subject, some cars get faster the higher the Revs but watch out, I've noticed in some cars that even before hitting the red the turbo pressure goes down the higher the revs get.

Never tried automatic as when I was extremely young and I played Test drive 5 the big muscle cars changed gears way to early and would go down even if you slowed down a bit.
 
punkrkr27
How can you differ? Every car has a peak power at a certain point in it's powerband. If you hold the gear longer than you are just wasting time because the car is not making any more power as the revs increase, in some cases a car can even start to drop in power after the peak point.
Click to expand...
Here's our sample car ...





Okay, so we have a peak hp of 300 hp @ 5000 RPM and a peak torque of 329.1 lb-ft @ 4500 RPM ...

Let's compare various shift points shall we ... Let's say 5500 RPM (right after peak hp), 6250 RPM (Optimum), and 7000 RPM (Redline)



Shifting at 5500 RPM (right after peak hp), you see that you're dropping a significant amount of Force when you upshift.

Shifting at 7000 RPM (redline), you see that you're making considerably less force from 6250-7000 RPM.

Shifting at 6250 RPM (optimal), you see that it's a completely smooth transistion. This is because the horsepower is the same at the shift point (6250 - 282 hp) and at the point you end up at in the next gear (4500 - 282 hp) ...

I think it's pretty hard to argue that another 1250 RPM is right after peak hp ...
 
In Real life, I solely drive Manual. It's simply more efficient. In GT4 though, With the slower more compact cars like in begginer i use manual, so i can get an advantage. But now i have soo much money, and multiple 500+ HP cars, i just drive automatic
 
Viper Zero
Who drives automatic?!

Show yourself so I can laugh at you.
Click to expand...

Me! I've done the manual bit through many 100% games in GT3 and just want to have some fun with GT4. Later, when I get through GT4 and feel the need for more challange, I may go back and do it all again in manual. Maybe not. Who cares, its just a game. We paid our $$$s we can play it as we like... :grumpy:
 
in RL i drive a auto. manual in peak-hour would be a pain... I have only had gt3 and 4 but have never driven auto in the game.

in the end tho it is really just peanuts vs beernnuts isnt it.
ie, just a matter of taste
 
I use manual, because you can't get the control of the car with auto that you can manually.

I shift as late as I can, making use of the gear, and when I'm in the next gear, the engine's at a more powerful RPM.
 
IRL, manual is faster and more economic than auto... but in gt3 and 4, with the proper techniques (slightly different from manual when it comes to throttle breaking and race line) its just about as fast. I never use automatic in any games though.
 
Jmac279
Here's our sample car ...





Okay, so we have a peak hp of 300 hp @ 5000 RPM and a peak torque of 329.1 lb-ft @ 4500 RPM ...

Let's compare various shift points shall we ... Let's say 5500 RPM (right after peak hp), 6250 RPM (Optimum), and 7000 RPM (Redline)



Shifting at 5500 RPM (right after peak hp), you see that you're dropping a significant amount of Force when you upshift.

Shifting at 7000 RPM (redline), you see that you're making considerably less force from 6250-7000 RPM.

Shifting at 6250 RPM (optimal), you see that it's a completely smooth transistion. This is because the horsepower is the same at the shift point (6250 - 282 hp) and at the point you end up at in the next gear (4500 - 282 hp) ...

I think it's pretty hard to argue that another 1250 RPM is right after peak hp ...
Click to expand...

Could you please attach a copy of the Excel spreadsheet you show in this post, I've been looking for something like this for quite a while.

Thanks in advance, BTW, quite agree with what you say, when you change gear you should ensure that you keep the engines power in the optimal range.
 
But to do the shifting at a different point on each car will take an enormous amount of research though ... I use manual shifting and shift when the little light starts blinking red ...

But to give you a real world example as well ... I drive a A3 1.8T and to shift at 5500rpm rather than redline of 6500rpm keeps it in the powerband (turbo boost) range ... so it does not help to change only at the redline ... in this car though. But have been told that if I change the intake manifold it should keep the power for longer in the rev range.
 
I started to use Manual for Gt4 and I can safely say its much more fun, more challenging and it makes me laugh when people come round and cant use Manual! I think its faster too, although im not certain - you certainly get more control
 
punkrkr27
Thanks for the input guys. I think I wanna start using MT in game. I just wanted to learn how well GT4 mimics what I do in real life. RedWolf, thanks for pointing out the power chart, I didn't realize you could expand it into detail. Also, the clutching technique you use is technically a bad habit, at least in real life it is. Again, I'm not how accurately the computer follows this. But, in proper real life driving theory, riding the clutch through a corner is slower. What this does is force the driver to either break traction on turn exit or slow the car slightly as the clutch is re-engaged during the exit. You're supposed to be in the correct exit gear before you even enter the turn, that's what heel-toe downshifts are for (which I don't even want to get into here). Again though, I don't know if any this even makes a difference in the game itself.
Click to expand...

Glad to help!

As for the "clutch" technique, I know it's really bad in real life, but this is a video game! lol There is no cluch to re-engage (though revs must drop). It works very well for me, especially when that cursed AI starts running me to the outside of a corner. I let off the gas, shift down, and accelerate a little early to finish my turn on the inside. If I didn't shift down, I would understeer and be stuck in the same position because the lower gear gives me less torque (because of the gear ratio) but a higher speed on the tire which sometime causes oversteer. It's not too much oversteer because I let off the gas so it's not hitting the rev-limiter. Like I said it's a tricky technique, but it works very well in cornering for me.

As for using MT in games, it becomes instinct. You'll hardly notice when you shift. I usually just go by sound when I shift, but in GT4 sounds are a lot better so I have to relearn that all over again. Good news is the tachometer is a lot more accurate this time through. :) In real life, MT is more of a habit than an instinct if that makes sense. You have to know how to let off the clutch for your car because the pressure is different for each car and you also have to know how much gas to give it so you don't tear up your flywheel and/or clutch. MT is a LOT trickier in real life obviously. Still fun, nonetheless.
 
kragbees
But to do the shifting at a different point on each car will take an enormous amount of research though ...
Click to expand...


No, you're wrong, it is very easy: just take a look at the small diagram on the top right of your set-up car (red toolbox) before the race...
It says you all you need to know when to upshift.
 
I used to be an avid anti-manual fan. Couldnt focus on my lines, too much hassle in fast cars when banging up n down the gears constantly.

Then I played GT4 - and tried the 2CV racing. By using manual, I could downshift to keep the engine at its peak power (i.e revving as hard as it could!), which meant I destroyed the CPU cars up any hills. I've been using manual gears ever since. So thank you 2CV - you brought me the world of manual gearing. I dont think I'll be going back to auto in a hurry - in GT4 the advantage is big. GT3 it didnt matter too much - I outpaced my very experienced, manual-driving friend by 5secs on one track - no R2, no triangle-business either. Just auto.

Re: this diagram, just press "Start" on the settings screen to bring it up.. otherwise you have to manoevre the cursor into the top right..
 
RedWolfRacer
Glad to help!

As for the "clutch" technique, I know it's really bad in real life, but this is a video game! lol There is no cluch to re-engage (though revs must drop). It works very well for me, especially when that cursed AI starts running me to the outside of a corner. I let off the gas, shift down, and accelerate a little early to finish my turn on the inside. If I didn't shift down, I would understeer and be stuck in the same position because the lower gear gives me less torque (because of the gear ratio) but a higher speed on the tire which sometime causes oversteer. It's not too much oversteer because I let off the gas so it's not hitting the rev-limiter. Like I said it's a tricky technique, but it works very well in cornering for me.

As for using MT in games, it becomes instinct. You'll hardly notice when you shift. I usually just go by sound when I shift, but in GT4 sounds are a lot better so I have to relearn that all over again. Good news is the tachometer is a lot more accurate this time through. :) In real life, MT is more of a habit than an instinct if that makes sense. You have to know how to let off the clutch for your car because the pressure is different for each car and you also have to know how much gas to give it so you don't tear up your flywheel and/or clutch. MT is a LOT trickier in real life obviously. Still fun, nonetheless.
Click to expand...

Yeah I know, it's just a game. But as we all know GT4 is weird in that some odd things are represented pretty accurately in the game and some things aren't. I just wanted to learn a bit about how the game reacts to shifting so I know what to expect when I give the MT a shot. I drive MT in real life and wouldn't be caught dead in an AT and I pride myself on proper shifting technique. There's nothing more fun than ripping into a turn and banging down through the gears in perfectly matched heel-toe downshifts. :)
 
I could drive perfectly happily in Manual :cool: , but if you're listening to music, then you can't spot the optimum time to change gears! :scared: Catch 22- faster drive or headbanger?!? :boggled:
 
turn the music up, but not loud enough to drown out the engine. Thats what i do when listening to music on those long endurance races in gt4 or LFS.
 
Scaff
Could you please attach a copy of the Excel spreadsheet you show in this post, I've been looking for something like this for quite a while.
Click to expand...
I'll probably PM it to you later this afternoon ... I'm still working a few things out on it to try to make it a little more user-friendly ...
 
Jmac279
Here's our sample car ...
Click to expand...

Awesome. 👍

I love it when someone actually comes up with that answer. It's not merely a function of horsepower, but also gearing. You need to graph out the torque curves in each gear in order to find out the truly optimal shift point, despite what many people believe and "feel".
 

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