- 17,719
- Florida
- GranTurismo0517
- RandomCarGuy17
I don't notice the frame rate drop either. I'm not saying it isn't there, I just can't see it.
Reasons to buy gt6
- Thread starter YUBOY7
- 303 comments
- 17,681 views
HKS racer
(Banned)
- 4,802
Here you go. A nice drop from 60 unstable fps to 48.Start at 23 sec.
It's the video from Samus links.
Maybe you just need to click on the links people post at you before using "Reply" button.
- 11,660
- GTP_Orido
Maybe these guys only have 720p TV, which means they'll never encounter any frame rate issues like on that video
- 17,719
- Florida
- GranTurismo0517
- RandomCarGuy17
Start at 23 sec.
It's the video from Samus links.
Maybe you just need to click on the links people post at you before using "Reply" button.
I did check out his links, I just didn't notice much about the frame rate dropping. On another note, my TV is a 1080p HD TV. I did go back and play my GT5 copy to see if I could notice anything this time round; I did notice a bit of the game fps slowing down whenever I made a turn at times and I noticed it again when I paid more attention to the video.
So yeah, the FPS I guess needs improvement. I just don't care much about it tbh; maybe that's why I didn't notice it before.
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- 7,830
- U S A
- Tetsumura
- Nigel Fox
On the first part, that's true, and that's what I get for posting after staying up till 6am.
I should have simply kept to my usual "looks like a PS2 game in HD." And that does ignore a few PC racers released since 2009.However on that point, you have to blame both the gaming media and PC racers both, because these games seem to offer nothing to write home about but slightly prettier graphics. I had poked at boards for chatter about new sims in the past and all they would talk about were GTR, Live For Speed, iRacing and the latest mods for rFactor. Oh, and how amazing GT5/Prologue looked, and some on how close to a sim they were. And then a couple of years ago it was all Project CARS, rFactor 2 and GTR3, which seems to be in limbo now. Recently, add in Assetto Corsa, which also looks pretty good as a sim.
As for whatever game your pics are from, couldn't care less because I own the games the majority of simmers have glommed onto, other than iRenting. And you may think I'm a Mad Hatter that Batman should be throwing in Arkham Asylum, but I prefer my nasty old Standard car pics to yours. I think they look far better.
Eh, I'll address my whole druthers concerning sim racing presently.
While I'm not sure what this has to do with my quote, the moddability of PC sims is gold for those who love that genre. It seems that the whole mod world has pounced on rFactor in particular, because it has a whole universe of mods available for it. So if you want to recreate a particular racing season of some league or other, there is probably a mod for that. Not that this was what I was ever after, though.
After further thought, I bet you're talking about messing with config files. Frankly, I've steered clear of most of the offerings on boards, because the first "awesome" setting had the wheel jerking out of my hand the first rumble strip I drove across, and I've mostly ignored them after that. Since you mentioned this in particular, your wheel controller has my sympathy because this will wear it out much faster. "Another cool thing in pc simracing is finetuning FFB. You think kerbs effects are too low? You can rise them."If you claim to be able then show me your customized Controller.ini file in rFactor. Let's have a look at your settings and compare them.
Oh, and though I own rFactor, I don't like it. Above all the racers I've played since 2000, it has the sensation of balancing and rotating your car on a spindle while the world turns beneath it. And the user interface is crap. I can't begin to recall where they buried the auto/manual tranny settings, but it took half an hour and pouring through the manual to find it! And the multitude of mods for it never did tickle my pleasure center.
I hope you guys who keep bringing up rFactor Pro understand that it's not a video game:
rFactor Pro is a high fidelity vehicle simulator with game-quality graphics and sound engines for human in the loop simulation. The architecture of the simulator allows the physics engine to be replaced with models developed using Dymola. This enables the same vehicle models to be used in the design office and on the simulator.
The rFactor Pro product is the outcome of a major development partnership with a high budget racing team. The team demanded a simulator that is not only physically accurate, but which is also visually and aurally realistic. rFactor Pro creates detailed 3D models of tracks and vehicles and accurately models their vehicle dynamics. That means engineers and designers have a complete solution: virtualized engineering development, setup evaluation, driver training, race engineer training and strategy evaluation.
So in essence, rFactor Pro is indeed a professional simulator which is also available for public consumption for a price, which puts it on an even higher level than the much lauded iRacing.
Furthermore, while I wouldn't doubt that it's a good platform for racing team training, the "several F1 teams using it" meme is a little dodgy, and I refer you to the one solid Google link I could find on that.
I do have a gaming PC more than good enough to run every racing sim other than possibly the forthcoming wondersims, and a G25 wheel which is much more than adequate as a wheel controller, though I would like to get one of those nifty Thrustmasters soon. And other than iRenting, I have the most highly regarded games. I just don't play them.
And there's a basic reason. For all their gloriousness, PC sims are essentially built to serve as platforms for gamers to start clubs and leagues online or in LANs, and have been since the dawn of the intranets. I don't know why you guys think the bots in sims are all that great, because for the most part, they're polite cruise missiles with a limited aggression tendency, much as the bots in Gran Turismo. Except in certain situations, such as in the GTRs when the bots smash their way horrifically through chicanes. Intelligence... yeah.
And yes, the physics are nice and all, especially in my preferred physics showcase, LFS which you don't have to rent constantly to have a good experience.
Except - and I know what's coming - Gran Turismo 5 gives me that experience just as well. I know most of you guys on the PC side disagree vehemently. We're just going to have to agree to disagree on how good or bad GT's physics are. Soundwise, you should know by now that things like exhaust sound and damage are pretty low on my list of essentials. In the area of customization, you do have a point, but that's where Forza comes in as my "guilty pleasure." No PC sim offers what Forza does, except through mods. And even then, how many mods offer hundreds of street cars with fairly accurate dynamics for each car? And in the case of GT5, make that around 1000 unique cars. And even then, who agrees completely with someone's build of a street car? Rather, there's an inevitable board fight over it. Plus, I'm just not into the whole club/clan/league thing with tight schedules and calendars, all to see how many people are awesomely better than I am on the podium at the end of a virtual season. I'm a casual racer and have enough trouble keeping to my own schedule.
And if you want to quibble about padding GT5's car count, where does that leave the typical PC sim? A car list of 20 unique rides? Perhaps 30, 40 some odd? And all race cars. In the case of Formula 1, one or perhaps three unique cars which aren't all that different from each other. And this is what always gets lost in these discussions over why we love either Gran Turismo or Forza, or both. I love cars. Lots of cars. I want those cars.
You can argue that no sane person would race more than a few dozen of GT5's several hundred unique cars. Maybe I'm crazy, but I've literally cycled through several hundred Standard cars in Arcade Mode, in which the only reward is the race itself. And if I hadn't, I would have missed out on a few dozen rides I dearly love now. Peugeots, VWs, Fords, Mazdas, Nissans... lots of cars I can't remember them all. I'm still kicking myself that I waited so long to try the Countachs and some of the Jaguars. And as awesome as Forza 4 is, I've about had it with the idiot bots and am going back to GT5 and the Academy demo for a while. And while I miss the sense of danger in that much too safe GT ride, I get over it pretty quickly, because the drive is still intuitive, dreamy, and just darn rewarding. Especially on my Course Maker tracks and the dreaded Nurb'.
Like a_jak says, you guys take it too personally, as if I'm saying your games are worthless. Not at all. But if you insist that you have to race a PC sim to get an authentic racing experience, I disagree.
Anyhow, it's about time to enjoy some virtual GT5/GTA pleasure.
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- 1,708
- GTPlanet
- Cosbuster
People didn't start complaining only after seeing the videos. The issue was observed way before any video like that was ever posted. It's just being used as proof for the naysayers. You might not notice them yourself but that doesn't mean that others don't. Framerate issues can render games unplayable for many people even if you're not one of them.
- 1,410
- London, UK
- Shirrako
I know that, i consider myself very lucky, i did experience framerate issues in Tomb Raider like crazy and other games, but none of the Gran Turismo games, the more GB is left on your PS3 the better it functions in the XMB, the less people experience framerate issues the better, let's hope GT6 is a fantastic game for us all.
HKS racer
(Banned)
- 4,802
That's probably Real Feel plugin using too strong settings. There's also Logietch control panel that play a role on that. Let's say if you download Enduracers Mod you are basically forced to use their FFB setting at first. If you are lucky and your hardware is similar you may end up with great setting at the first run. If you are not lucky you need to undestand where the problem is and the crazyness begin. I own a DFGT, usually G25 / G27 settings are too stiff for my wheel. So I decided to reduce the use of Leo and Real Feel plugins and create my own Controller.ini file starting from this guide.
I understand the trouble of a new comer to rFactor from GT.This game is like a development tool. It can be everything, very bad or very good depending on your settings. Because of that you people should try GameStockCar by Reiza Studios, everyone seems to praise the game for the good FFB stright out of the box.
Basically it is rFactor with all the tweakings done.
- 13,726
- Adelaide
- Neomone
It's not an agree to disagree thing. There are major deficiencies in GT5s physics, and it appears that there are in GT6s physics too. That they don't bother you is all well and good, as is the fact that all the other deficiencies with GT don't bother you. But you're just like the guy above saying that because he can't see the frame rate issues it doesn't matter. Just because you can't feel a meaningful difference between GT physics and others, doesn't mean that it isn't there.
If you're happy with GT, then more power to you. But you can hardly argue that GT doesn't have problems with physics and other areas, because it does. Particularly compared to modern PC sims.
Zer0
(Banned)
- 1,624
Don't pay atention. The framerate have never been a worrying issue in the demo, there are players more sensitive to lower than 60fps framerates but even in cockpit view and at 1080p (the worst case scenario) the game is smooth and playable with 48fps at the worst. Most console games still render at 30fps. With hd tvs the frame drops are not like in the past when on a crt tv a drop will mean half of the original framerate to sync in multiples with the tv Hz (60 ntsc and 50 pal), so from 60fps to 30fps, and from 30 fps to 15fps. That was very noticeable. In hd tvs the drops can be dynamic to any framerate and is not much noticeable except if the lows are very lows and the game becomes choppy to render, not the case with the demo.
Also in 720p and 1080i modes the demo run almost at fixed 60fps, same as with 1080p in first person and external view. What to say... this is drama-planet.
- 7,368
- Houston, TX
- ryandude2448
There is a lot of negativity on this thread... If we're comparing GT to computer simulators, lets do this then
A PS3 capable of playing GT5- $125
GT5 Disc- $10
Wheel- $110(optional, as you can actually drive with a DS3)
total cost- $135/$225
Online PC simulator
Computer capable of playing the game without framerate issues- no less than $500 including monitor, and that may not be able to consistently play some sims
Internet- around $50 a month for adequate, minimal lag internet
Wheel- $110(necessary as driving with arrow keys just doesn't work)
Which is $1510 for the 1st year and then $600 every year after, PLUS paying for each and every car/track($ varies)
Internet is NOT necessary for a PS3 consistently, so you could buy it for 1 month, download all the updates and be done. Now you have a multitude of aspec and bspec races plus access to every car and track.
My point is that's what some people can afford. Some people can't justify a little bit of more realistic physics as being worth $600 a year, plus an additional $700 1-time cost compared to just a $135/$225 1 time cost.
A PS3 capable of playing GT5- $125
GT5 Disc- $10
Wheel- $110(optional, as you can actually drive with a DS3)
total cost- $135/$225
Online PC simulator
Computer capable of playing the game without framerate issues- no less than $500 including monitor, and that may not be able to consistently play some sims
Internet- around $50 a month for adequate, minimal lag internet
Wheel- $110(necessary as driving with arrow keys just doesn't work)
Which is $1510 for the 1st year and then $600 every year after, PLUS paying for each and every car/track($ varies)
Internet is NOT necessary for a PS3 consistently, so you could buy it for 1 month, download all the updates and be done. Now you have a multitude of aspec and bspec races plus access to every car and track.
My point is that's what some people can afford. Some people can't justify a little bit of more realistic physics as being worth $600 a year, plus an additional $700 1-time cost compared to just a $135/$225 1 time cost.
- 659
- Germany
- ZoidFile
To me the framerate drops in the demo are very noticeable. I hope they can sort it out till the final release.
I have to agree here, so far the look of cars in Gran Turismo is unmatched by any other car game or simulation on the marked. On other games the cars look either like paper models, plastic or just fake. I don't know what it exactly is, maybe it's the lighting system or the shaders? It can't be the models alone, other games have very detailed cars to, but they still look somehow very fake.
I have to agree here, so far the look of cars in Gran Turismo is unmatched by any other car game or simulation on the marked. On other games the cars look either like paper models, plastic or just fake. I don't know what it exactly is, maybe it's the lighting system or the shaders? It can't be the models alone, other games have very detailed cars to, but they still look somehow very fake.
- 17,719
- Florida
- GranTurismo0517
- RandomCarGuy17
- 613
- TWNTYB_4ME
- F Caris
I own GT5 and will be buying GT6 because:
-new physics
-new tyre model
-more cars
-more tracks
-faster and simpler menus
-quicker load times
-fresher design (every one is sick and tired of the GT5 design by now)
-more parts to modify each car
-standard cars are supposed to look better than standard cars in GT5
-if you had been thinking of deleting your GT5 save and starting again from scratch but didn't because of repetitiveness, GT6 is the perfect opportunity as it is quite different and improved compared to GT5
-think of the money you will save by not having to buy a next gen console at lauch date prices!
-improved car/engine sounds
-easier to convince wife/husband/partner/girlfriend/boyfriend why you spend so much time playing it because it's new and different to GT5
-new physics
-new tyre model
-more cars
-more tracks
-faster and simpler menus
-quicker load times
-fresher design (every one is sick and tired of the GT5 design by now)
-more parts to modify each car
-standard cars are supposed to look better than standard cars in GT5
-if you had been thinking of deleting your GT5 save and starting again from scratch but didn't because of repetitiveness, GT6 is the perfect opportunity as it is quite different and improved compared to GT5
-think of the money you will save by not having to buy a next gen console at lauch date prices!
-improved car/engine sounds
-easier to convince wife/husband/partner/girlfriend/boyfriend why you spend so much time playing it because it's new and different to GT5
- 10,938
- Canada
- 17,719
- Florida
- GranTurismo0517
- RandomCarGuy17
Yeah, I actually had a thought; if driving games were looking really good now on the PS3 and xbox 360, I think the visuals could possibly peak on the PS4 and xbox one in terms of realism for driving games if developers work hard enough to a point where no more improvements could be done with the graphics.
- 7,368
- Houston, TX
- ryandude2448
Good point and you didn't even take into account that if you already have a PS3, GT6 will only cost you the price of the game. Next gen consoles will also cost a lot more than GT6
Yea, I was just doing a example as if someone was starting from scratch and has been A. saving up...or B. restarting the game of life
For example, I am lucky enough to have both a PS3(a used 60gb, but still a ps3) and a computer that is easily capable of playing basically any game on max settings, and I suppose a few more intense at medium.
- 1,130
- Mexico City
- ppmike921
- MikeB0ssMan
The "new" physics aren't even "new". GT5 and GT6 are still the same game underneath, it's so obvious. Also, I would like to know why some people use "improved sounds" as a reason to buy GT6 when there's no example of such a thing.
- 7,830
- U S A
- Tetsumura
- Nigel Fox
While I don't have any problem with people insisting that GT5 has holes in the physics engine that need plugging, it's the bold part that I have to question, because that's an old net meme from the days of GT1. And just like an environmentalist discussing the environment, somehow, it never gets better even when it does.
And in particular, that "major deficiencies" canard is always dropped like some kind of anvil without further explanation, which always has me questioning whether the poster knows squat of which they speak. Some obviously do, like Scaff who has a background in the automotive biz itself, and has done some sort of racing. He will make points and detail them. Others who have racing experience will disagree with some of them and offer their own points. Some of them think that GT5 is just awesome sauce for the most part.
One of them is an autocrossing/racing relative of mine who shall remain nameless because he has a presence on the net and doesn't want to get bogged down in my "silly board politics." He insists that in spite of all the numerous sims and claims about which game is better, GT5 is just about as close to reality as he cares about right now, and when he races around in the 240SX in GT5, it's remarkably similar to the behavior of his real life 240SX. He also owns a Sentra GT as his daily driver and current occasional racing car, and since there isn't one quite like it in GT5, he decided to kick around in Forza one day when I offered him a run, and he bought the Sentra in it. He had a blast, though he kind of loved it but didn't. He pointed out things one game did better than the other, but boiled down, he preferred the drive in GT5 because the cars react in ways more like he expects them to.
He also said something I'd been meaning to bring up, but he's such a fast talker and so authoritative on so many subjects, it's hard to remember everything. In any case, he mentioned a couple of things. One being that if you took the inputs to a racing game and fed them into an identical real car, they would likely wig it out and wreck it because you have to temper how you want to drive a car with how its reacting in real time to your control of it. And a whole ton of sensory response is missing when you try and force a virtual car in its own little world to do what you want it to. Sure, GT5 isn't perfect, but then no game is, and the number of people who can explain just exactly why cars in GT5 act wrong is a tiny fraction of the mass of online critics.
Another is that most of GT5's critics are arguing without any real world basis to substantiate from. Rather than being practicing racers, autocrossers or whatever, they base their judgment on what other videogames do, and that's just arguing on which dumbed down version of reality they're used to, rather than which one is more realistic. "I've had a number of times when I thought my car in real life should have done one thing, and it did something completely off the wall. And it didn't matter how much I knew or what experience I had, the car knows way more than I do about the laws of physics. So you might as well forget all this board nonsense and just enjoy your game. Unless you're an automotive engineer with a PhD or the reincarnation of Richard Burns, you're wasting your time because board debates are usually nothing more than a contest to see who's Truth Schwartz sounds bigger." So right!
Just to reiterate for the skimmers or quick to forget, I KNOW that GT5 isn't perfect, because it doesn't behave absolutely like cars do in the real world, though outside of a few points, there are a lot of fuzzy areas in which the distinctions aren't so clear. But just to reiterate something else, you can insist that GT5 has so many holes in the physics engine that you can't have a solid racing experience in it, and you need a PC sim for that, but I'm not the only one who disagrees with that.
And on that note, I think it's time for some more GT5, as accurate or inaccurate as it is. 👍
By the way, HKS's YouTube looks compelling, but with the games I already own collecting dust in the face of GT5 and Forza 4, I think I'll just wait to see how P CARS, rF2 and A.C. shake down.
- 13,726
- Adelaide
- Neomone
Are you suggesting that we need to be practising race car drivers to be able to make statements that GT5s physics aren't all that flash? Can I not read posts from knowledgeable people like Scaff, understand their well thought out explanations, observe that I get the same results in game as they describe and come to similar conclusions?
Or am I barred from all discussions of physics because I don't have ten grand spare for a race car?
There are obvious holes in GT physics. Launches. Tyre widths. These things don't need an advanced degree in race physics to identify. Anyone with a moderate interest in cars probably knows enough to be able to figure out what's going on.
You can have a decent racing experience on GT, but depending on your level of experience with other sims it may be somewhat frustrating. GT's limited physics and super-smooth tracks means that if you're used to something like iRacing or a good rF mod it just feels watered down. GT is what it is, a sim that is simplified for a mass market appeal, based on the assumption that most of that market can't tell the difference. As you rightly point out, they can't. For most people GT is exactly as good as iRacing or rF2 or a F1 simulator.
That should hardly mean that those of us that can see it shouldn't be able to say so. For those people that notice the tearing, it's a big deal. If you're used to something with a smooth frame rate it's massively distracting and it really spoils the experience. The physics is the same way. If you're used to something with a more advanced tyre and suspension model and more detailed tracks, it really does feel like you're playing with Duplo instead of Lego. Fun, but not quite as good as it could be.
GT does OK, but it's just a shame to look at it sometimes knowing how much more it could be.
- 7,830
- U S A
- Tetsumura
- Nigel Fox
No no, I think some of you are reading too much into what I'm saying in my essays. I was hoping in my walls of text that my meaning was pretty clear.
If GT5 was perfect, I wouldn't have hopped into the "Should Gran Turismo be more like a racing sim?" thread and said "Oh heck yes, I'm all for it." Which I am, perhaps to some of your surprise. In fact, I was dismayed at how many people said that GT was fine as it was and no need to be super realistic. If anything, I think "The Real Driving Simulator" should be!
And I'm not a real life racer either. The closest I've come to that is the occasional drag down a mostly empty street with my friends, or going a bit too fast around curvy country roads, or getting a rare ride with my relative when he races or autocrosses. And I don't consider that being a car owner makes me any more of an authority than the next guy, concerning the critique of Gran Turismo as a series.
I do however think there is way too much anvil dropping with no explanation, and I also think the dire "GT5 is full of wrongness" is way overblown, as is the attitude that GT5 isn't remotely realistic. A number of people here have mentioned how both GT5 and Forza 4 are both pretty darn good simulators in different ways.In my case, I have learned to respect both of them for the strengths they offer, and when I go to one, I miss the other, and eventually have to go back. It took a while of being away from Forza to realize it, like two years, but I gave it a second chance and was rewarded for it.
When I tried my PC sims, I was reminded of how good they were, especially Live For Speed. But going from them to Forza 4, I immediately noticed how lively the cars felt, and how well mannered and "safe" the sims felt, much like GT5. And I wondered how come Turn 10 had managed to breathe life into a car game that was beyond the best simulators, even as I struggled to come to terms with it. Struggled to the point that I remembered why I dropped Forza back in 2011 (edit: woops, not 2010!) just seven or eight weeks after I got it. It's hard, even on cars of a mere 200hp. The cars feel wobbly on those suspensions. I went back to GT5 and it felt amazingly like my sims, even with those physics flaws almost everyone agrees on. But I began to miss those lively suspensions, and the next day, I tried F4 again. And kept at it. And in a day or two I decided to stick with it, because it was like Live For Speed, almost, with 500 cars.
To me, it seems almost like Forza and Gran Turismo are two different aspects of what cars are in essence, kind of like quantum physics in describing reality. Forza is the rowdy, dangerous aspect, and GT is the intuitive, precise aspect. Even their tire models seem to follow this duality. Merge these two games somehow, and I believe you'd have the perfect racer on par with the new kids on the block like rFactor 2 and Assetto Corsa. But with way over a thousand cars.
Forza 5 may be that game, but I'm hopeful that GT6 is too. It has come out in discussions with Kaz and other Polyphony folk that there will be a hard core mode in GT6, which hopefully is the basis for videos like this one. Because it looks FREAKING REAL!!@1
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