How "Special" are PRO race Drivers?

  • Thread starter Rich S
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In particular F1 drivers and Nascar drivers.

Everyone knows its pretty expensive to start karting. Only a select few kids will ever get to step foot in a racing kart. Those that make it to the bigger leagues essentially only have to beat a few hundred other kids, whereas someone who's compete-ting in a popular Olympic sport is looking at millions of competitors.

So how does a group of racing fans view the subject? Are race drivers of the same substance of swimmers, footballers & all the other athletes?

I dont think they are. Also bear in mind that many of the athletic sports are more dangerous than top tier motor racing.
 
In particular F1 drivers and Nascar drivers.

Everyone knows its pretty expensive to start karting. Only a select few kids will ever get to step foot in a racing kart. Those that make it to the bigger leagues essentially only have to beat a few hundred other kids, whereas someone who's compete-ting in a popular Olympic sport is looking at millions of competitors.

So how does a group of racing fans view the subject? Are race drivers of the same substance of swimmers, footballers & all the other athletes?

I dont think they are. Also bear in mind that many of the athletic sports are more dangerous than top tier motor racing.

Your last statement is false by a wide margin. When is the last time you saw a football player, a baseball player, a basketball player, a tennis player, a hockey player or a soccer player actually die on the field? Its very uncommon. Racing is a lot more dangerous in many aspects because you could hurt yourself (or kill yourself) without anyone else being a part of it.
 
Well you're saying it's more difficult to be an athlete than a top motor racer? Are you mad? Do you know how many thousands of kids want to be racing drivers? For every 1,000,000 kids who want to drive in F1, their must be only one who makes it. It is incredibly specialised, and you have to be literally the best in the world to get to the top.
Rich S
Also bear in mind that many of the athletic sports are more dangerous than top tier motor racing.
Really? Dan Wheldon? Marco Simoncelli? Do they ring bells?
 
I dont mean to stir up anger, but indeed; motor racing has become safe compared to surfing, competitive skiing for example. Dan Wheldon, along with his Moto GP counterpart, were a tragedy. May the Rest In Peace.

But it is true that activities like scuba diving, bull riding & american football have some pretty nasty rates.... Now football might not claim alot of immediate victims, but the damage done can certainly take a large toll....
 
I don't think they are. Also bear in mind that many of the athletic sports are more dangerous than top tier motor racing.

In the current state, yes. However there was a time before roll cages, fire suits, helmets, various track safety elements and safety crews where you were lucky to leave the track in one piece.

If you want an idea as to how hard the top tier is, look at the GT Academy, they are the best drivers in the game, yet start out in low class cars.
 
I dont mean to stir up anger, but indeed; motor racing has become safe compared to surfing, competitive skiing for example. Dan Wheldon, along with his Moto GP counterpart, were a tragedy. May the Rest In Peace.

But it is true that activities like scuba diving, bull riding & american football have some pretty nasty rates.... Now football might not claim alot of immediate victims, but the damage done can certainly take a large toll....

It´s funny because you change your argument as you go along.

First you claimed that you can match Webber in an F1 car in less then 30 laps.

Then you say the drivers in F1 isn´t special.

then you say they aren´t fit enough compared to other athletes.

And now you say something about the sport being safe compared to others.
 
Assorted laptimes in a Suzuki Liana round Dunsfold park.

1:46.7 – Ellen MacArthur
1:46.9 – Jimmy Carr
1:47.1 – Simon Cowell
1:47.3 – Ronnie O'Sullivan
1:47.8 – Ian Wright
1:47.9 – Chris Evans
1:47.9 – Rory Bremner
1:48.0 – Justin Hawkins
1:48.0 – Jodie Kidd
1:48.0 – Paul McKenna
1:48.0 – Patrick Kielty
1:48.3 – Jay Kay
1:50.0 – Jeremy Clarkson

Sebastian Vettel did it in 1:44.0. That's 2.4 seconds quicker than a "normal" person over 1.75 miles.

Webber did a 1:47.9 even though the track for his run was very wet, and they say a very wet time is 4 seconds a lap slower than what he could do in the dry. 4 sconds off would be a 1:43.9 which fits in with Vettel's lap.
 
Trust me, there are some people out there who are just special drivers.

I race go karts and there are just some people who just have an amazing skill at driving that doesn't just come through practise. Everyone can become good through practise, but some people are beyond good. Like Lewis Hamilton when he won his first race against many, much more experienced drivers.

I bet you that even in my kart after 30 laps you wouldn't be within 0.5 secs of my time, that amount of time alone isn't even enough to learn a track let alone beat someone who has spent their life practising, and has been picked out of hundreds of thousands of hopefuls to fill that dream space in f1.

Dream on if you think you are as good as f1 drivers, if you really think you are get out there on a racetrack and prove me wrong.
 
Hamilton did it in 44.7 that was a track "with water and oil"

Just to show the conditions Hamilton vs Vettel,




0.7 seconds from beating Vettel in those conditions!

And for those who say Vettel was not taking it seriously, he was the only one asking what the tire pressures were before heading out.

This is another point in why i think Hamilton is the absolute fastest driver since Ayrton Senna in terms of raw speed.
Nobody has the raw talent Hamilton have. Even Alonso admitted to that a few days ago.
 
Lets say F1 drivers in general. No, I do not think they are at the same level as athletes in various other sports. Many are good because they have had good financial opportunities as kids, raced since a young age, lots of experience and a team which had backed them up. Their skills come from practice and competition experience.

A top-tier athlete in a serious sport (lets say gymnastic, considered the most difficult sport) is superior compared to an F1 driver. The sport requires more (skills, training, experience) and as in other individual sports, requires a lot more from the athlete.

Then, there are these few race car drivers which becomes legends. The ones we talk about to our kids. These are the only ones comparable to Olympic gold winners. They were born to do this activity and have natural talent.
 
Unfortunately, LH can't fall back on that "raw talent" all the time ;)

In reply to Rich S, F1 drivers are amongst the fittest athletes there are.
 
f40
Unfortunately, LH can't fall back on that "raw talent" all the time ;)

To quote another great driver ;)

"We are not capable to prove without the machine, we rely on teamwork, on car, on so many factors before we can add on our last little bit of taste" - Schumacher

Basically why most of the problems this year has happened with Hamilton is because he tries to compensate when the car don´t have the pace.

Monaco, he was driving like a mad men just to climb up and we all saw what happened there.
 
F1 drivers of recent such as Nakajima and Grosjean for example may have looked terrible, but literally, these guys are the best drivers around.

Think about how many people are racing at the moment, or aspire to. Only the 24 best get to race in Formula 1. Competition is INTENSE. It can look easy because we only ever hear about those that do well, but there are infinitely more that go nowhere, either because they don't have the money, or because they simply aren't good enough. It's an incredibly expensive sport. You're taking a huge risk on it and you have to be incredibly determined, or incredibly rich, if you want to get anywhere.
 
Sorry, Rich S. But I can't take anyone seriously who claims they could be within half a second of Mark Webber's time in the RB7 after just 30 laps. As someone pointed out in the other thread. Jean-Eric Vergne, who is one of the most promising young drivers in the open-wheel world, is still over 1 second slower than Mark Webber after two days and well over 100 laps of testing in the RB7.
 
Pro race drivers are reasonably fit, of considerable intelligence and naturally skilled.

But the fundamental difference is the nature of the sport they compete in. Their health, and their life, rests not only in their hands but those around them and in the garage.

In regards to how "special" they are amongst the general population, well consider there are more players in a soccer squad than drivers on an F1 grid. But then there far more kids trying to be pro soccer players than race driver.
A top-tier athlete in a serious sport (lets say gymnastic, considered the most difficult sport) is superior compared to an F1 driver. The sport requires more (skills, training, experience) and as in other individual sports, requires a lot more from the athlete.
Considered the most difficult sport by whom? Bearing in mind it has been common place for athletes in their early 20s to medals in the Olympics, how is experience greater?
 
Most repliers seemed to concentrate on average person vs. F1 driver, but I thought the OP was trying to compare racing drivers more to other pro athletes. I agree with ExigeEvan and fps_christian. I'm a lazy fat ass, but without a doubt I can put olympic level athletes above top tier racing drivers. I think this shouldn't even be a controversial subject, because motorsport is called motorsport for a reason. And the popularity (I mean amount of people who take part) can not be even compared to major and so to say traditional sports.
 
I´ve heard that if you take an athlete from every sport and let them try every sport, the gymnast would come out on top overall everytime due to their physic.

Someone already touched on the matter but just to follow up,

There are only 24 places in F1, the highest level in open wheel racing.
Compare that to nearly 700 NHL players. the highest level of ice hockey.

Then take football or soccer, whatever you want to call it. Football is even bigger then hockey, the amount of high level teams are even greater.

You have Premier League, Series A, La Liga etc etc.
 
Talent is often a by-word for how quickly someone can pick up something new or how committed/hard-working they are to keep pushing to improve.

Now you have to combine that with getting all the right opportunities. I feel that opportunity is the big one, otherwise you wouldn't get generations of the same family in a particular sport. If the parent was an F1 or NASCAR driver, the child would have been exposed to that from a very early age, and would likely have the funds and the contacts to get the opportunites required to follow in their parent's footsteps.

Development in the early years is key to doing well at something (Unless you're a really special talent). F1 drivers have had that through all the opportunites they have been given. Now combine that with the physical and mental fitness and conditioning, and how they have to still perform at the same level of skill in a harsher physical environment as they go up the motorsport ladder.

Let's say for example, I could do a 1'32.x lap of Suzuka in an F2010 in GT5. Now this would have taken me many many laps to achieve, probably into 3 figures. Can I do this consistently over a race distance whilst sat on a hard floor with my legs up in the air, with very heavy steering and lateral G-forces that are trying to detach my head from my neck? Hell no. I don't think anybody on this forum could do that as good an an F1 driver even with practice.

You see, it doesn't take someone special of 5-6 years old to put in a kart and start training them up, taking them through various formulas in competitive machinery to eventually end up and compete in F1. But the end result that comes out of that, is something very special.

So the short answer: Very.
 
You see, it doesn't take someone special of 5-6 years old to put in a kart and start training them up, taking them through various formulas in competitive machinery to eventually end up and compete in F1. But the end result that comes out of that, is something very special.

Actually it does. Because what is forgotten is that you have hundreds of these little kids with the same background.

What separates these kids? Talent. And it´s that one kid out of all these hundreds of kids that actually will end up in F1.
 
Professionals are generally those who are better at what they do; it's not always by some ginormous or other-worldly amount skill than others, but they are by definition the best at what they do.

Once anyone has a lot of practice, training, education, discipline, and experience, they could probably function at 90-97% of a professional at nearly anything, given enough time, and without regard to any physical or emotional limitations.

That last 3% is what separates the rest of us, and that's why we watch them perform their sport: The percentile increases, and the rest of us can't compete with them on this level. The 97th percentile is normally quite awesome, but compared to his peers, he's quite ordinary.

The 98th percentile is pretty damn good on his or her day, but usually the average one...might be a local favorite, but on a national or international scale...they aren't well-known.

That 99th percentile...they are some of the best around at whatever they do. They're well known outside their realm, they are respected outside their circles, and they command whatever dollar they ask for their services.

And then there's the very few who seemingly transcend their career, their sport, their livelihoods and become icons, coined words, household names...they are legends that are still respected long after they've retired or passed on.

So a professional racing driver just happens to be that much quicker than anyone else; it might look easy, but they have the right mix of talent, skill, bravery, knowledge, and in some cases, "right opportunity" to make it happen. Someone on the back of a Formula One grid would usually be a top-notch driver at the next step down, and when that car is barely qualifying at 7% slower than the fastest guy out on the track, he still has buckets more talent than you or I have, without the requisite experience.

Players, drivers, professionals make mistakes, and our emotions carry us away when we say "He's an idiot...I could do that...I wouldn't have made that mistake." Boloney...you're not in his shoes, with the same pressure and spotlight on you, controlling a 800-horsepower missile around a track isn't easy until you've been there.

Nearly every racing driver is an athlete; the fitness of keeping up with the physical demands of driving a car at it's limits, without air conditioning, with high body temperature, a high heart rate, and with the mental will and discipline to control all the external surroundings, the immediate moment, understanding the limits of the machinery, following the rules, and keeping one's internal demands at bay is definitely something that requires a fitness that many people are completely unaware of.

Oh yeah, motor racing is dangerous, on top of all that. You're only as good as your last performance. Sponsors are waiting. This puts food on the table (or more yachts in the harbor). Ignore that little voice telling you otherwise. Try to keep all that out of your head at the same time.
 
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Actually it does. Because what is forgotten is that you have hundreds of these little kids with the same background.

What separates these kids? Talent. And it´s that one kid out of all these hundreds of kids that actually will end up in F1.

There is still a fairly large performance gap in the lower formulas. Those given the best opportunities make their way up, it's as simple as that. As I mentioned 'talent' is just how quickly they pick it up, or how hard they work to improve their skills. Those who get to kart several times a week are obviously going to be better than the guy who can afford to go once a month. Regardless of how much talent you have, you still have to be given all the right opportunities to reach the top. Obviously as you get further up the motorsport ladder the opportunities are harder to come by as there are fewer of them, so this usually sieves out the best drivers naturally, but a lot of potential greats lose out at the same time. You get the odd 'bad egg' that gets to the top though, and in F1 it really shows (Not mentioning any names, though it rhymes with Baldonado).
 
You get the odd 'bad egg' that gets to the top though, and in F1 it really shows (Not mentioning any names, though it rhymes with Baldonado).

Yea GP2 Champions really do suck. It´s all "opportunities" and has absolutely nothing to do with talent.

I also don´t buy the "if you train hard enough you will eventually get better"

That might be true to a certain extent but there are drivers in GP2 that have been there for a long time but have simply stopped evolving because they can´t get any better.

Talent is something you are born with. Not everyone can be as quick as Hamilton even if they had twice the learning curve as he did.
 
Yea GP2 Champions really do suck. It´s all "opportunities" and has absolutely nothing to do with talent.

I also don´t buy the "if you train hard enough you will eventually get better"

That might be true to a certain extent but there are drivers in GP2 that have been there for a long time but have simply stopped evolving because they can´t get any better.

Talent is something you are born with. Not everyone can be as quick as Hamilton even if they had twice the learning curve as he did.

I think this is the thread you are looking for. Hamilton had talent yes, but he wouldn't have got as far without his sponsorship (May have still ended up in F1 mind, depending on what other opportunities were offered to him). Without the sponsorship he wouldn't have been in a frontrunning team throughout the various Formulas he raced in. I'm saying you need both the opportunities and the talent. You can't get anywhere unless you have both.
 
He wouldnt have gotten so far without talent.

With talent you get sponsors.

At the end of the day its about how quick you are and how you perform.

If you cant perform then it doesn't matter how much money you have or what sponsors you have becaus you wont get any sponsors if you suck.

By talent i mean that in a scientific way obviously. Hamiltons brain and body are wired differently compared to you and me, that is why he is in F1 and not you or me.

There is no secret to go fast on a track. There is no secret in how to put a ball into the net aswell so at the end of the day it's talent.

FYI Hamilton has not been in a top team all his career. just like Vettel.
 

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