1.17 update major issue *READ*

  • Thread starter X3sgteX
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Garage13
I actually have a book that contains a section on optimum gear ratio theory and yes to get the required ratios factor in things that polyphony doesn't give us so we can figure it out like tire size(345/55R20 as an example) that would be required to figure out what the Tire rolling diameter is.I could give you the formula but I don't have the book with me at the moment.
The transmission flip as far as I am aware you can do since GT3,never tried it on GT1 OR GT2.The main issue with the transmission flip in GT3-GT6 is that the layout was much easier to do in GT5 because it told you what your theoretical top speed was. Mine was always ridiculous :lol::lol::lol:

I know this may sound somewhat noobish but I do also have a book on real life race car development and tuning. The author worked on Foyt's and Iyckx's cars along with some other names you might recognize
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You can obtain the tyre + wheel diameter by measuring the speed at a certain rpm and apply this formula:

speed / (rps / total gear ratio) / π

Where:
speed = meters per second
rps = engine revolutions per second
total gear ratio = gear ratio * final drive
π = 3.14159 etc...

The result is the total diamater (in meters) of tyre + wheel
 
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eran0004
Edit: I think I may have found the culprit behind this. Check the gear ratios of the Alpine VGT, the 1st gear has a ratio of 13.660 and a final drive of 1.150. To make such extreme settings possible they may have been forced to tweak the transmission script and while they did that they accidentally broke something...

It's interesting though that it still seems to work online. Would that indicate that there's a different script for online racing, possibly more streamlined than the offline script?
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For GT6, there's a difference in loading a car when you go on track in an offline mode, versus loading it when going on track online. Without going into detail, it especially concerns the reset of parts installed.
 
I seem to recall this has happened before, though it's so fuzzy I don't even remember whether it was GT6 or GT5 it happened to. Tuned gearbox sliders suddenly appeared all left and the numerical ratio was displayed as 0.000. Unfortunately I also can't remember how long it took PD to fix it.
 
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Speed Fiend
EXACTLY!!! (why don't these amateurs get it?) THIS IS A GLITCH not a fix to some perceived manipulation of the system. the gearbox is not returning to default only the top speed slider and final drive go back to default the numbered gears all slide far left!!!!!!! which is not their default position thus IT IS A GLITCH
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Just because it seems a bit too structured to be a bug. For instance, when you went online and changed cars and no one but you saw that car..that's definitely not intended behaviour.

This seems intentional rather than something that broke. Now, I know many many have noticed that trying to tune a transmission online can be PAINFUL because of how slow the process is. It's been a slow process overall since GT6 launched, so something more is happening int he background. It might be a necessary evil to fix some other issue.

I'm not denying that the transmission tuning has worked a particular way for 15 years. There was something similar to this in GT5 when people were modding transmissions. Maybe they've found some data that shows this type of tuning breaks something else in the game.

In any event, I think this is what others are feeling. That this seems to intentional to be a straight up bug.
 
shmogt
Ok so basically the majority consensus is we can't make tunes until it's fixed?
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You can make tunes but you can't adjust the final gear after you set the top speed. Just have to think differently but they still work and still have same benefits as prior for final drive placement for flipping. Just skip the IFG and place it at its final location.
 
Otaliema
So for all this all we have effectively lost is the tighter gear ratio's on the flipped transmissions? This will slow the cars down a tad but a well made transmission will only be affected a little bit. Just have to rebuild the transmission for every track right now.
Set your Final drive to place you normally would at the end of your transmission tuning.
Set your top speed to what you need +2 clicks if you reduce your last gear to shortest possible.
Build your transmission.
Honestly it makes more sense and it easier this way. More realistic, sorta. PITA? yes.
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It can't be both easier, and a pain in the ass. ;)

Building your transmission over and over again on every track is in no way whatsoever easier than adjusting a final drive.
Final drive - 1 adjustement.
Transmission - 1,2,3,4,5,6,fd,ts 7-10 adjustements, depending on the car. (8speed plus fd plus ts slider)

Voodoovaj
It might be a necessary evil to fix some other issue.
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Do you listen to your words before you post?

I get that yu don't want to blame PD for anything, but this is a joke, right? "A necessary evil to fix issues"?
What, PD can't fix it the right way? By trying to defend them, you basically are calling them inept.
 
I agree tuning transmissions for each track is abit asinine because you are contantly readjusting the trans for each track.
 
Otaliema
You can make tunes but you can't adjust the final gear after you set the top speed. Just have to think differently but they still work and still have same benefits as prior for final drive placement for flipping. Just skip the IFG and place it at its final location.
Click to expand...

Without the second flip, it will always be slower. The pull from lowering the final again has been like that for years.
 
X3sgteX
Without the second flip, it will always be slower. The pull from lowering the final again has been like that for years.
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Lower final drives were only faster in previous games, it doesn't apply to GT6, last I tried it.
It's the spacing of the gears(which is 100% realistic) that gains the speed.
In GT5, just setting a lower final drive was faster with the same spacing. (which sounds more like a bug)
 
CSLACR
Lower final drives were only faster in previous games, it doesn't apply to GT6, last I tried it.
It's the spacing of the gears(which is 100% realistic) that gains the speed.
In GT5, just setting a lower final drive was faster with the same spacing. (which sounds more like a bug)
Click to expand...

You may want to re test your theory then.
 
shmogt
Ok so basically the majority consensus is we can't make tunes until it's fixed?
Click to expand...

You can make new tunes just fine. The problem is that some old tunes may have the gearbox reset. You also need to make sure you set the final gear ratio before you set max speed. The flip "bonus" that may or may not have been present can't be obtained until this is fixed, but the low ratio final drive "bonus" that may or may not have been present can still be obtained as usual.
 
eran0004
You can obtain the tyre + wheel diameter by measuring the speed at a certain rpm and apply this formula:

speed / (rps / total gear ratio) / π

Where:
speed = meters per second
rps = engine revolutions per second
total gear ratio = gear ratio * final drive
π = 3.14159 etc...

The result is the total diamater (in meters) of tyre + wheel
Click to expand...

Actually the formula is:

r=v/[2*π*(rpm/total ratio)*0,06]

v = speed (in km/h, 1mph = 1.6km/h)
π = 3.14...
rpm = revs per minute
total ratio = gear ratio*final ratio

And you get: r = tire radius (in meters)
 
Okay, so I was reacting to information that it appears was not correct. I am not a politician or a troll. I was wrong. I apologize. As the transmission adjustments are explained further in this thread, I realize I use them that way myself. I've never been completely convinced the final drive trick was effective, but people with much more tuning skill than I have, swear by it, so I plan on doing more transmission tuning based on what I've learned here.

TLDR: I was wrong, sorry.
 
eran0004
You can make new tunes just fine. The problem is that some old tunes may have the gearbox reset. You also need to make sure you set the final gear ratio before you set max speed. The flip "bonus" that may or may not have been present can't be obtained until this is fixed, but the low ratio final drive "bonus" that may or may not have been present can still be obtained as usual.
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You can make new tunes but they won't be optimal. Where this bug really hurts is in the case of high powered two wheel drive cars, like the Group C racers. The available gear ratios just using the top speed slider are too wide for these cars, you'll either buzz the tires in first or you won't be able to use all of your top gear. You need to be able to adjust the final drive after you tune your gearbox in order to get a tight ratio spread and a final drive ratio that allows you to reach top speed.
 
notStig
You divided the revs by pi instead of multiplying. Besides that, I only used units you are more likely to see in the game.
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Division is just reversed multiplying. The result is the same.

whoozitz
You can make new tunes but they won't be optimal. Where this bug really hurts is in the case of high powered two wheel drive cars, like the Group C racers. The available gear ratios just using the top speed slider are too wide for these cars, you'll either buzz the tires in first or you won't be able to use all of your top gear. You need to be able to adjust the final drive after you tune your gearbox in order to get a tight ratio spread and a final drive ratio that allows you to reach top speed.
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What kind of ratios would you need for a group c car?
 
CSLACR
It can't be both easier, and a pain in the ass. ;)

Building your transmission over and over again on every track is in no way whatsoever easier than adjusting a final drive.
Final drive - 1 adjustement.
Transmission - 1,2,3,4,5,6,fd,ts 7-10 adjustements, depending on the car. (8speed plus fd plus ts slider)
Click to expand...
It is easier to build the transmission as your not having to guess or calculate the IFG for your car. It's a pain for just the reason you explained.
X3sgteX
Without the second flip, it will always be slower. The pull from lowering the final again has been like that for years.
Click to expand...
Only if you over speed the car. With this bug you have to under speed and use the full power band for the final gear of the car, you get the shorter gears for accelerating and most of if not all off the top speed.
CSLACR
Lower final drives were only faster in previous games, it doesn't apply to GT6, last I tried it.
It's the spacing of the gears(which is 100% realistic) that gains the speed.
In GT5, just setting a lower final drive was faster with the same spacing. (which sounds more like a bug)
Click to expand...
It's not a huge difference like it was in GT5 but it's there, a well made transmission with a long final drive flip with will out accelerate a short final drive flip to 90% of the top speed of the car.
 
eran0004
Division is just reversed multiplying. The result is the same.



What kind of ratios would you need for a group c car?
Click to expand...

I can't give specifics without the game right in front of me, but when I tuned the Jaguar XJR9 I found that grouping the gearbox ratios as closely as possible creates a nice spread. Once you set the final drive you end up with a car that launches very nicely (no banging off the rev limiter) and tops out just a couple hundred revs before redline. It might not have enough room at the top for drafting at Route X but you'd never have to adjust it again for normal circuit racing.
 
whoozitz
I can't give specifics without the game right in front of me, but when I tuned the Jaguar XJR9 I found that grouping the gearbox ratios as closely as possible creates a nice spread. Once you set the final drive you end up with a car that launches very nicely (no banging off the rev limiter) and tops out just a couple hundred revs before redline. It might not have enough room at the top for drafting at Route X but you'd never have to adjust it again for normal circuit racing.
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So, top gear as short as possible, 1st gear as tall as possible and the rest somewhere in between?
 
Otaliema
It is easier to build the transmission as your not having to guess or calculate the IFG for your car. It's a pain for just the reason you explained.

Only if you over speed the car. With this bug you have to under speed and use the full power band for the final gear of the car, you get the shorter gears for accelerating and most of if not all off the top speed.

It's not a huge difference like it was in GT5 but it's there, a well made transmission with a long final drive flip with will out accelerate a short final drive flip to 90% of the top speed of the car.
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You don't have to guess or calculate anything to do a transmission flip.
I know this because I never ever do. Once in a blue moon, I'll have to re-adjust, but 99% of the time my first guess is square on, and only the FD needs adjusted from there. Aka real life.
(Real life manufactures have historically changed gearing in cars by using different FD's, without touching the gearbox)

JCH8r
Okay, so I was reacting to information that it appears was not correct. I am not a politician or a troll. I was wrong. I apologize. As the transmission adjustments are explained further in this thread, I realize I use them that way myself. I've never been completely convinced the final drive trick was effective, but people with much more tuning skill than I have, swear by it, so I plan on doing more transmission tuning based on what I've learned here.

TLDR: I was wrong, sorry.
Click to expand...
It has always depended on the car, track, and especially power band.
Some cars it could be next to nothing, and other can gain half a second or more down a single straight. (In GT5 anyway)

eran0004
What kind of ratios would you need for a group c car?
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The kind that keep it in it's power band.
So, top gear as short as possible, 1st gear as tall as possible and the rest somewhere in between?
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As tall as "possible"?
You mean as tall as Gran Turismo limitations dictate, right?

That's the point, in real life, there's nothing stopping me from having 1st gear go to 70mph, and second gear only 80mph. GT doesn't "allow" this, without transmission "flipping".
 
CSLACR
As tall as "possible"?
You mean as tall as Gran Turismo limitations dictate, right?
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Yes, captain Obvious.

That's the point, in real life, there's nothing stopping me from having 1st gear go to 70mph, and second gear only 80mph. GT doesn't "allow" this, without transmission "flipping".
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Yes it does. You can do that without transmission flipping. Just set a tall 1st gear and a short 2nd gear and you'll get just that.
 
eran0004
Yes, captain Obvious.



Yes it does. You can do that without transmission flipping. Just set a tall 1st gear and a short 2nd gear and you'll get just that.
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No. In order to get 1st and 2nd as close as possible you need to manipulate both the top speed and final drive sliders.
 
whoozitz
No. In order to get 1st and 2nd as close as possible you need to manipulate both the top speed and final drive sliders.
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Well, you don't. Tested earlier today, I could set a 2nd gear that was almost identical to 1st gear.
 
eran0004
Yes, captain Obvious.
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Boy I hope that doesn't count as clever for you. :lol:

There's quite a difference, which seems to have blown over your head at the speed of light.
Yes it does. You can do that without transmission flipping. Just set a tall 1st gear and a short 2nd gear and you'll get just that.
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Well you couldn't for the past 15 years, and I doubt you can now. I'll check it with other things later, but you've got all the making of a know-it-all that doesn't actually know jack.
 

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