1.17 update major issue *READ*

[karelpipa]

T
...the slider method is helpful to newcomers that don't understand how gearing works.

What about having an OPTION to have both types. But i know PD does not like to give much options for players..

That's Japanese version. Also, in GT2, the quick gearbox setting was measured in levels (Sports <-> Wide) instead of top speed.

Japanese ver used mph? Anyway doesn't matter which is the version. They just forgot to change the ratio of the x-line when changed mph to km/h. If you've had a 950 HP Skyline you could not see 5th gear properly.

 

[Speed Fiend]

I guess ill do some red bull standard races and rack up some cash while I wait for these clowns to fix their mistake. Get it together PD, before one of the various titles nipping at your heels gladly takes from you (and maybe rightfully so) the title of best sim racer.

 

[Speed Fiend]

I never played an earlier version of Gran Turismo, GT6 was my first... So, are you telling me that when I apply a tune and it says something like:

1) Reset to Default
2) Move Final Gear to 5.000
3) Move Max Speed slider to 112mph (minimum value)
4) Set 1st gear x.xxx
5) Set 2nd gear x.xxx
6) Set 3rd gear x.xxx
7) Set 4th gear x.xxx
8) Set 5th gear x.xxx
9) Set 6th gear x.xxx
10) Move Final Gear to 3.280

Are you telling me that I'm exploiting a BUG by setting the transmission that way? If so, HOW is that a bug? What's wrong with setting a transmission that way? Isn't the point of a "customizable" transmission to be able to put in just about any gear ratios you want? I mean, the game DOES limit us in the gear ranges for each gear. So, please tell me just HOW that is exploiting a bug, if that's what you're saying it is... I honestly don't know. This is how I've always seen transmissions get set in GT6. Well, 99% of the time.

amen

 

[whoozitz]

What about having an OPTION to have both types. But i know PD does not like to give much options for players..

Yes, ideally there should be an option to disregard the sliders and directly select all gear ratios, but I gave up on the ideal Gran Turismo years ago.

 

[tankuroded]

Japanese ver used mph? Anyway doesn't matter which is the version. They just forgot to change the ratio of the x-line when changed mph to km/h. If you've had a 950 HP Skyline you could not see 5th gear properly.

The Japanese version of GT1 has a different in-game font for HUD other small game text. From where you got that screenshot?

 

[TurismoBad]

In any case I would like to know how the inclusion of 3 cars can cause such a havoc inside the game.

 

[SJC ALPHA]

Once a change is made to the final drive setting everything is just as set while that car is on the track but once the race is finished or exited and car settings is re-entered the final drive is back to default and all the numbered gears are at their far left position.
I need a HOT FIX and I need it now. not right now but Right Now

In the dozen or so cars I have tried it is not just the final drive but every gear. I have changed one gear only left car settings gone back and it has reset, no race needs to be entered, just exiting the settings seems to be resetting to default.

 

[Lewis_Hamilton_]

Are you telling me that I'm exploiting a BUG by setting the transmission that way? If so, HOW is that a bug? What's wrong with setting a transmission that way?

The reason it's considered a "bug" is because two identical cars with apparently identical gear ratios can actually have completely different length gearing.

Just a theoretical example. Set up one car this way:

Default the gear ratios, let's say that the final gear at default setting is 3.000
Set max speed to 124mph
Set First to 4.000
2nd - 3.500
3rd - 3.000
4th - 2.500
5th - 2.000
Final - 2.500

Say for example, this makes the car top out in 1st @ 40mph, 2nd @ 60mph, 3rd @ 80mph, 4th at 100mph, 5th @ 120mph

Now do the same as above with another identical car. This time though, when you default the gearing, set the final gear ratio to 5.000. Next, set the Max Speed to 127mph and back to 124mph again. You'll notice that all of the gear ratios in the chart will shift slightly. Now, do exactly the same as what you did above, match the gear ratios exactly. This time though, you'll notice that the gears on the chart are longer. Take the car on track and you'll find that you top out in 1st @ 50mph, 2nd @ 75mph, 3rd @ 100mph, 4th @ 125mph and 5th @ 150mph, but according to your settings page, these two cars are identical.

Basically, it allows you to make gears significantly longer than if did not "flip" or do the tranny trick. It's very useful for making nice long 1st gears to minimize wheelspin at the start of a race and out of tight hairpins, and to set the rest of the gearing nice and close to each other so that you are always in the peak of the car's powerband.

For people handing out tunes, it's very important to state whether the tranny trick was used and how, otherwise when someone is trying to match your setup, you'll have all the same settings/numbers, but your gearing will be completely off, usually much shorter.

 

[karelpipa]

The Japanese version of GT1 has a different in-game font for HUD other small game text. From where you got that screenshot?

Source: The internet

Yes, ideally there should be an option to disregard the sliders and directly select all gear ratios, but I gave up on the ideal Gran Turismo years ago.

I too, but i still have my weaker moments

 

[Stoop Solo]

Yikes. That bug meets the criteria for nasty. I shall jump through the required hoops to get the VGT cars then await a fix before any further driving.

 

[sk8er913]

In any case I would like to know how the inclusion of 3 cars can cause such a havoc inside the game.

Maybe they are using the havoc engine...

 

[UltimateLurker]

Maybe they are using the havoc engine...

Or a rotary? lol

 

[THOMASBARNES]

Wait I'm a little confused I've never touched the final gear on my cars I only adjust the top speed does this mean that my cars are affected?

 

[ALB123]

The reason it's considered a "bug" is because two identical cars with apparently identical gear ratios can actually have completely different length gearing.

Just a theoretical example. Set up one car this way:

Default the gear ratios, let's say that the final gear at default setting is 3.000
Set max speed to 124mph
Set First to 4.000
2nd - 3.500
3rd - 3.000
4th - 2.500
5th - 2.000
Final - 2.500

Say for example, this makes the car top out in 1st @ 40mph, 2nd @ 60mph, 3rd @ 80mph, 4th at 100mph, 5th @ 120mph

Now do the same as above with another identical car. This time though, when you default the gearing, set the final gear ratio to 5.000. Next, set the Max Speed to 127mph and back to 124mph again. You'll notice that all of the gear ratios in the chart will shift slightly. Now, do exactly the same as what you did above, match the gear ratios exactly. This time though, you'll notice that the gears on the chart are longer. Take the car on track and you'll find that you top out in 1st @ 50mph, 2nd @ 75mph, 3rd @ 100mph, 4th @ 125mph and 5th @ 150mph, but according to your settings page, these two cars are identical.

Basically, it allows you to make gears significantly longer than if did not "flip" or do the tranny trick. It's very useful for making nice long 1st gears to minimize wheelspin at the start of a race and out of tight hairpins, and to set the rest of the gearing nice and close to each other so that you are always in the peak of the car's powerband.

For people handing out tunes, it's very important to state whether the tranny trick was used and how, otherwise when someone is trying to match your setup, you'll have all the same settings/numbers, but your gearing will be completely off, usually much shorter.

Thank you, @Lewis_Hamilton_! I had absolutely no idea that's what was going on when I was setting my transmissions all this time. You provided a very informative answer...something I was afraid wasn't going to happen. I know the words "tranny flip" or "tranny trick" get thrown around all the time here on GTP, but I truly never knew exactly what that was. Thank you so much for explaining it the way you did. This is very fascinating and kudos to whomever first discovered this "tranny flip" technique.

Perhaps this is a question that belongs in a different thread, but how PD could remove that from the game? We are just manipulating the sliders that they give us. Unless there is actually something in the code that causes something to happen that shouldn't be happening. Regardless, I am blown away by this new information. All this time I thought I was just setting up my transmissions, little did I know I was actually exploiting something in the software.

 

[Tijee]

In any case I would like to know how the inclusion of 3 cars can cause such a havoc inside the game.

PD is with no doubt working on several features / bug fix in the same time, and perhaps a bit of code has insidiously been released with the last update. Being a developer I can say those things happen

 

[DSUjoeDirte9]

Every car of mine except my drift cars have a flipped or tuned transmission. Guess I won't install this patch for now.

 

[sk8er913]

There has been a hotfix it seems, dont know what it did though. Was that part of the update?

 

[another_jakhole]

View attachment 332349
https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/thre...-2015-1-17-coming.325549/page-3#post-10543505

haha I remember being annoyed by that comment. But the size of the update is curiously large. Does anyone remember if this type of little content, big size update is usually continued by a major update? I think the Red Bull Ring was the only one. If not, correct that.

Edit -
Remembered about the videos. I forgot about the VGT videos.

 

[JCH8r]

Well, now that I find out about the "tranny flip" trick, I don't feel so bad about being slow or losing races online. I mean, if the point of GT is to find endless little tricks in the code then I'm not that interested.

 

[pogledrip]

There has been a hotfix it seems, dont know what it did though. Was that part of the update?

Just tried out a couple of cars i'm not fussed losing the tune on,and if there has been a hotfix,it hasn't reached the UK yet,or if it has its done sweet fanny adams...
Oh well theres always tomorrow...

 

[Brewguy44]

Does anybody know if it's been fixed yet???

 

[dddsprayshop]

Wait I'm a little confused I've never touched the final gear on my cars I only adjust the top speed does this mean that my cars are affected?

I just tested it again, entered a-spec season event with a adjusted gearbox.
before enter, gearbox is fine.
Enter event, gearbox is still fine
enter race and exit, gearbox is reset.
But!! then i changed only topspeed from 270kmh to 280kmh, entered race, exit and settings stay.
The bug only applies when the final gear is changed, but i did not test that yet.

There has been a hotfix it seems, dont know what it did though. Was that part of the update?

Only fix here in europe is the b-spec enter championship after save fix.
tested it a few minutes ago, it is still in there.

Does anybody know if it's been fixed yet???

Nope, still active.

Only fix i did, enter event, enter race, checked gearbox, did not exit event, but hit PS button on controller and shut down ps3.In that way the game does not save.

Keep 200% login bonus, start game, get bonus, exit game backup savegame onto usbstick.
if you tried stuff and game saved and you lost settings? copy savegame back and repeat next day.
or, write down gearbox settings for each car you entered while playing.

It's going to be fun tomorrow when the new season events appear..
i guess i'm using my own simple tunes were i only use the topspeed slider.. Time will tell.

 

[Mike_grpA]

The top speed slider is about as unrealistic as it gets. It doesn't actually have a real world counterpart, because it changes the speed range in all gears, while the gear ratios remain the same. The flip trick is only possible because of the top speed slider, without it, there's no flip trick. I'm not sure why they included it. If the point was to be able to have a larger set up window for gearing, then the flip trick is simply moving that window to allow longer gears, but it still is wildly unrealistic. Why didn't they just allow for a wider range of ratios?

Then again... trying to guess what pd thinks when they do things is a fools game...

 

[breyzipp]

It's going to be fun tomorrow when the new season events appear..
i guess i'm using my own simple tunes were i only use the topspeed slider.. Time will tell.

Do them with 100% bare bone stock cars, it's so much fun!

 

[dddsprayshop]

Do them with 100% bare bone stock cars, it's so much fun!

A-spec, yes and maybe.

Hotlaps/timelaps? i'm dead meat in my friends list.
But if i can gold them, i'm good.At least we can adjust topspeed, that's mostly my thing.

O damn, new events, i have to shop for cars again or i hit the credit limit again...

 

[Rotary Junkie]

Oh lawd teh misinformation.

It's only worked this way as long as the "top speed" option has been included. Which is redundant when you have a final drive adjustment.

It worked so much better in GT1, which showed your in-gear speeds and top speed.

GT1's showing of individual gear speeds was excellent. I *think* GT2 had the 25-position autoset and know for a fact GT3/4 did. GT5/6 use the exact same system (still 25 increments too) just with autoset rebranded as "top speed".

The reason it's considered a "bug" is because two identical cars with apparently identical gear ratios can actually have completely different length gearing.

Just a theoretical example. Set up one car this way:

Default the gear ratios, let's say that the final gear at default setting is 3.000
Set max speed to 124mph
Set First to 4.000
2nd - 3.500
3rd - 3.000
4th - 2.500
5th - 2.000
Final - 2.500

Say for example, this makes the car top out in 1st @ 40mph, 2nd @ 60mph, 3rd @ 80mph, 4th at 100mph, 5th @ 120mph

Now do the same as above with another identical car. This time though, when you default the gearing, set the final gear ratio to 5.000. Next, set the Max Speed to 127mph and back to 124mph again. You'll notice that all of the gear ratios in the chart will shift slightly. Now, do exactly the same as what you did above, match the gear ratios exactly. This time though, you'll notice that the gears on the chart are longer. Take the car on track and you'll find that you top out in 1st @ 50mph, 2nd @ 75mph, 3rd @ 100mph, 4th @ 125mph and 5th @ 150mph, but according to your settings page, these two cars are identical.

Ummm... You wouldn't be able to set the same gears doing so. You'd wind up with a completely different set of ratios available.

Example of how it actually works (arbitrary numbers but the math should be fairly correct)
If final is at, say, 2.500, you get [6.000/4.000/3.000/2.250/1.750/1.500] for x top speed setting. Move the final to 5.000, wiggle the top speed slider to reset the ratios to match the new final, and you'll get something close to [3.000/2.000/1.500/1.125/0.875/0.750]. Then when you move the final gear back down, HEY! Closely spaced gears, except long!

Basically, it allows you to make gears significantly longer than if did not "flip" or do the tranny trick. It's very useful for making nice long 1st gears to minimize wheelspin at the start of a race and out of tight hairpins, and to set the rest of the gearing nice and close to each other so that you are always in the peak of the car's powerband.

For people handing out tunes, it's very important to state whether the tranny trick was used and how, otherwise when someone is trying to match your setup, you'll have all the same settings/numbers, but your gearing will be completely off, usually much shorter.

That's not how this works, that's not how any of this works. If you don't give how you set the trans up, nobody will be able to get the ratios you used. I've been known to use arbitrary base finals to set ratios as I generally use minimum final (there's a very minor gain to be had in acceleration from doing so while maintaining the same overall ratios).


Anyway, point being it isn't exactly a glitch. It's been baked in to Gran Turismo for at least two console generations, they wouldn't simply say "NOPE THIS ISN'T HOW THIS WORKS ANYMORE" without saying something about it. Therefore, the whole "yeah let's just default your gearing" thing going on with 1.17 is in fact the glitch, not gearing working how it was always intended to.

 

[Vegard]

It doesn't actually have a real world counterpart, because it changes the speed range in all gears, while the gear ratios remain the same.

I don't know what game you are playing but the top speed slider in GT6 changes the gear ratios. That's the only thing it does. Think of it as changing the entire set of gears for taller/shorter ones.

 

[Mike_grpA]

Yes, but if you change your top speed slider, and then set the individual ratios back to what they were, the in gear speeds are different.... Name one part on a car that does this.

 

[Vegard]

but if you change your top speed slider, and then set the individual ratios back to what they were, the in gear speeds are different..

Again, I don't know what game you're playing but GT6 gives you the same road speed at the same rpm given identical gear ratios and final drive ratio.

Edit - I read your post again. When you said top speed slider, did you really mean final drive ratio?

Your post would make sense then.

 

[X3sgteX]

The reason it's considered a "bug" is because two identical cars with apparently identical gear ratios can actually have completely different length gearing.

Just a theoretical example. Set up one car this way:

Default the gear ratios, let's say that the final gear at default setting is 3.000
Set max speed to 124mph
Set First to 4.000
2nd - 3.500
3rd - 3.000
4th - 2.500
5th - 2.000
Final - 2.500

Say for example, this makes the car top out in 1st @ 40mph, 2nd @ 60mph, 3rd @ 80mph, 4th at 100mph, 5th @ 120mph

Now do the same as above with another identical car. This time though, when you default the gearing, set the final gear ratio to 5.000. Next, set the Max Speed to 127mph and back to 124mph again. You'll notice that all of the gear ratios in the chart will shift slightly. Now, do exactly the same as what you did above, match the gear ratios exactly. This time though, you'll notice that the gears on the chart are longer. Take the car on track and you'll find that you top out in 1st @ 50mph, 2nd @ 75mph, 3rd @ 100mph, 4th @ 125mph and 5th @ 150mph, but according to your settings page, these two cars are identical.

Basically, it allows you to make gears significantly longer than if did not "flip" or do the tranny trick. It's very useful for making nice long 1st gears to minimize wheelspin at the start of a race and out of tight hairpins, and to set the rest of the gearing nice and close to each other so that you are always in the peak of the car's powerband.

For people handing out tunes, it's very important to state whether the tranny trick was used and how, otherwise when someone is trying to match your setup, you'll have all the same settings/numbers, but your gearing will be completely off, usually much shorter.

Oh lawd teh misinformation.



GT1's showing of individual gear speeds was excellent. I *think* GT2 had the 25-position autoset and know for a fact GT3/4 did. GT5/6 use the exact same system (still 25 increments too) just with autoset rebranded as "top speed".



Ummm... You wouldn't be able to set the same gears doing so. You'd wind up with a completely different set of ratios available.

Example of how it actually works (arbitrary numbers but the math should be fairly correct)
If final is at, say, 2.500, you get [6.000/4.000/3.000/2.250/1.750/1.500] for x top speed setting. Move the final to 5.000, wiggle the top speed slider to reset the ratios to match the new final, and you'll get something close to [3.000/2.000/1.500/1.125/0.875/0.750]. Then when you move the final gear back down, HEY! Closely spaced gears, except long!



That's not how this works, that's not how any of this works. If you don't give how you set the trans up, nobody will be able to get the ratios you used. I've been known to use arbitrary base finals to set ratios as I generally use minimum final (there's a very minor gain to be had in acceleration from doing so while maintaining the same overall ratios).


Anyway, point being it isn't exactly a glitch. It's been baked in to Gran Turismo for at least two console generations, they wouldn't simply say "NOPE THIS ISN'T HOW THIS WORKS ANYMORE" without saying something about it. Therefore, the whole "yeah let's just default your gearing" thing going on with 1.17 is in fact the glitch, not gearing working how it was always intended to.

Yes! Thank you rotary..

The only way you're getting different top speeds for the "same" transmissions is because you haven't changed the final, that's no bug, you simply have 2 different finals with no second final flip, you seem to be implying even with a second flip the 5.000 will have a higher top speed on the said gear, but in fact a 4.000 1st with a 3.200 final gear will top out at the same speed as a 4.000 with a 3.500 final gear, both being set to a 2.500 final.