(1) The Sim Wheel's Effect On Car Control...(Fanatec Example)

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Staying on topic here I checked out my 15.5 gram drag & steering correction example GIF that I thought seemed too fast (see my last post)

It's accurate. That is how long it took, seems to be artifacting from the MP4 to GIF conversion process which skips/blends frames. But the duration seems correct. Next week I will compare the round versus Formula wheels to see how the lower inertia of the latter may affect matters. Doing the same turn using a high drag round wheel and poof the magic goes bye-bye. I cannot correct as snappily, which is the main point I hope to convey. Which then leads to more frequent blown turns if you are at the limit.

Thinking about the matter some more, finding track speed benefits from low drag sim wheels means there are some other ways to find benefit for our hobby.

1) It should be fairly easy to come up with a new ** Standard Benchmark Test ** for this characteristic of sim wheel control. I dub thee "Magic" or "Countersteer" or "Reaction" or "MoJo" lol. Then we can more objectively test and rate wheels for their expected in-race capabilities when controlled by humans. A cool thing about that is that you'd have results for a particular human...yourself...and could reference that to others who may have selected their parents more or less carefully.

I have some ideas there and may track down Tucker to see if he is interested in adding a driver + wheel test option to his Wheelcheck program over at iRacing. Suppose you hold the wheel in some specific manner...then feel or see a signal or a "standard turn"...then you make a needed correction input. You could have a human reaction time and then a separate device related time and a grand total. Repeat x amount of times and statistically you'd have a more valid result.

For sure from what I am seeing, a stock Fanatec or other high drag wheel won't do as well here as a very low drag or modded wheel. Some of the cheap wheels like my G25 or Microsoft Wheel should do well compared to their price. This should help explain why some of the cheap wheels are more than capable of on track majesty even if they lack bling. Many cheap plastic-fantastic wheels are used by Alien level drivers. I know some that won huge acclaim on just DFGTs. Well those ARE low drag wheels with peppy controllers after all, even if they have weak FFB and other limitiations!

2) There are some things I will be trying out along the lines of driver aids or stability bumps that should prove interesting. Even faster correction. I can share some of those results conceptually if this is done even if I choose not to at first do a paint by numbers training video for "drive by" types who might demand that immediately and without delay or gratitude. ;-)
 
Nice, take a few more digs, good to see you paid attention to all the comments in this thread.

However, ON topic, I don't know if all this work you're doing in this direction is going to be of much benefit. Have you ever thought of trying to develop some kind of test that removes the human quotient? Ever thought of trying back-to-back testing on a low-drag setup vs. an actual completely stock wheel?
 
Ok I have been modding my All-Fanatec sim rig for some time. It's not very stock at this point lol, all of the components have many changes. I came across a concept I thought I would share, one that improves car control and therefore lap times. This can help any sim wheel of any brand, and it is my suggestion to keep this in mind if you are a DIY modder such as myself. There are myriad details as to how to embody the belownoted, but the concepts work on any wheel which is my point.

Thanks for going into some interesting concepts. I agree lowering mechanical drag and optimizing linearity are import factors in improving wheel performance. You've obviously put a lot of time and thought into developing improvements in the CSW and posting about the theoretical concepts.

One question. What modifications have you made to lower drag?
 
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So I can't believe I wasted 30mins reading this whole thread hoping to find out how to reduce drag however I still do not know HOW TO REDUCE DRAG.

Instead all I got was it would be beneficial for countersteer speeds if you reduce drag levels beyond stock levels (DUH).
 
There are some things I will be trying out along the lines of driver aids or stability bumps that should prove interesting. Even faster correction. I can share some of those results conceptually if this is done even if I choose not to at first do a paint by numbers training video for "drive by" types who might demand that immediately and without delay or gratitude.

Don't bother. What is the point of "share some of those results conceptually" if you won't share WHAT changes you've made to demonstrate those concepts?
 
RacerXX has got me thinking Since my CSW is now in the shop for motors I'm racing with my trusty old G27 again and it ain't bad. The smaller wheel rim's lower mass and diameter, and low drag gear drive make for quicker response to the car's dynamics. I've been running in a highly competitive league for some time and my speed relative to drivers I've been racing with hasn't suffered a bit. Certainly some of the fastest sim drivers have had good success with the Logitec wheels.

The races are one hour and longer so torque fade from heat can be an issue. While the G27 does seem to go a bit numb after a while the better feel of low forces make it easier to deal with. I'll be getting Eric's mod and will be interested to see the better feel of low level forces from smoother and stronger motors as others have reported.
 
RacerXX has got me thinking Since my CSW is now in the shop for motors I'm racing with my trusty old G27 again and it ain't bad. The smaller wheel rim's lower mass and diameter, and low drag gear drive make for quicker response to the car's dynamics. I've been running in a highly competitive league for some time and my speed relative to drivers I've been racing with hasn't suffered a bit. Certainly some of the fastest sim drivers have had good success with the Logitec wheels.

The races are one hour and longer so torque fade from heat can be an issue. While the G27 does seem to go a bit numb after a while the better feel of low forces make it easier to deal with. I'll be getting Eric's mod and will be interested to see the better feel of low level forces from smoother and stronger motors as others have reported.

Wouldn't it be interesting to try implementing a gear drive in a CSW? Using proper ground helical gearing and maybe graphite powder lubricant it would be amazing IMO. No drag at all. Very very expensive though. I'm thinking along the lines of hardened steel on maybe brass gear wheels on barely there aluminum hubs to keep inertia very low. Of course the best approach is still probably direct drive servo wheels.
 
RacerXX has got me thinking Since my CSW is now in the shop for motors I'm racing with my trusty old G27 again and it ain't bad. The smaller wheel rim's lower mass and diameter, and low drag gear drive make for quicker response to the car's dynamics. I've been running in a highly competitive league for some time and my speed relative to drivers I've been racing with hasn't suffered a bit. Certainly some of the fastest sim drivers have had good success with the Logitec wheels.

The races are one hour and longer so torque fade from heat can be an issue. While the G27 does seem to go a bit numb after a while the better feel of low forces make it easier to deal with. I'll be getting Eric's mod and will be interested to see the better feel of low level forces from smoother and stronger motors as others have reported.
I have a g27 too....what is the "Eric's mod"?

I did not know there was such a mod to better the feel of low level forces and increase the smoothness and strength of the g27.

Please enlighten me!!
 
He's talking about my mod for his Fanatec CSW... sorry! Nothing for the G27 from me. Does ARC team still offer their G wheel mod?
 
Personally I am more interested in exploring what things make our virtual cars faster, more in the Research side of things. I think it's a good thing to communicate that the concepts we might think are correct really ARE correct. For instance it was nice to see the video of the Russian scientist who just had his theoretical efforts (from decades prior) confirmed RE measured gravity wave remnants indicating Big Bang / Expansion concepts. In any hobby or field there are usually many things accepted as true which really aren't. There are a number in the world of sim racing which I may go into over time.

I came up with the end result (that low drag is vital) and an approximate real world cut-in point noted earlier and shown on the graph I posted at the beginning of this thread. If you aren't well below that "Magic" line, you are being held back by your sim wheel IF you truly are driving at the limit. My opinion there is based on a great deal of research and lap time testing over much of last year. On a Fanatec CSR-E round-rim diameter, the good stuff just begins to materialize below about 3 ounces at the rim. Just hang 15 nickels from the side of your powered down rim OD...you want it to turn, and not just dangle there. 9 nickels is solidly better and I ran at that level for a long time. Less is better, you can then feel things earlier and initiate responses in a more timely manner which helps you control your virtual racecar. As noted I'm at about 3 nickels and don't think I can get it much better than that. In use it feels basically like zero drag.

Cutting sim wheel drag/friction helps ANY wheel, however it can take very specialized efforts. So mainly I am sharing the goal as opposed to the voice assist GPS road map which also reminds you to buy milk on the way home. I'm sorry if some of you find that difficult to accept.

What I am doing with belts on my Fanatec wheel "can't be done" so it took me a few extra months to complete lol. It's pretty trick however and many custom bits, machined parts, extra mechanisms and the like are involved. If it was a product roughly three US patents might be involved. Those of you who also create may better understand my perspective here. It would take 100s of forum posts to adequately explain well enough for some of your DIY efforts. Those who originate/create have similarly faced some of the off topic remarks over time I see here I am sure, that is par for the course, shrug. Those tend to suppress sharing some think. For those who want a cheap, fast 1-800 / live chat way to cut your wheel's drag by a factor of 100, well that is not coming from me any time soon. But the concept drives great which really is the GOLD takeaway from this thread. If you do this and surpass my "Magic" threshold you may feel like hanging a picture of me on your wall haha. Cuz you'll run faster than ever in your races.

I've done some testing using my Formula Wheel as I'd promised last week. See example GIF below which is fully synced. I can hit wheel RPMs of about 240 at peak, which is higher than some theory predicts (about 200 being considered the point beyond which you don't need). That is also an area worth exploring. I'll have to look up what I've hit on my round rim from the data logger. In use, my present wheel drag/friction is so low that the livelier feel difference you get when swapping from a larger/heavier round to a smaller / low inertia formula rims is less apparent. Or another way of looking at it is that a heavy round wheel on a low drag setup winds up feeling more alive and peppier than a light Formula rim on a stock Fanatec. Those of you with both CSW wheels know the subjective change you notice when you swap.

If you want uber track speed cheap what you want to do is run a cheap one motor Logi wheel combined with upgraded pedals. My G25 is faster in some ways than a stock Fanatec ignoring the pedals. DFGT is good too. These are unrefined wheels in terms of immersion and build quality but they are certainly quick on the track for the cost. They are clearly slower than what I am doing of course.

Formula-Correction_zps39f40398.gif


Oh yeah I placed a picture of a one dollar mod in the GIF above which I think every CSR-E should use. These wheels use two bolts threaded into consecutive threads which is truly a Bozo No-No. Your wheel can loosen over time and develop a wobble. Particularly if you ever take your wheel off even once or ever have had it loosen. Especially if you have both rims for the base as I do...since swapping will occur depending on your preferences and car you are sim racing. The threads *will* wear since they are inherently fighting one another. Fanatec acknowledges the issue indirectly. They note in the CSR-E Formula wheel instructions that the wheels are not intended to be swapped back and forth very often due to the thread woe and the two electrical connectors not being high insert/remove rated. I think they hope that a racer who buys the Formula rim installs it and then never swaps back or winds up with some wobble. I've had no issues with my electrical connectors. If I do I will just load in some better ones.

Anyway my suggested mod is to use a hose clamp to do two good things for the cause. I like how two things are accomplished as that is often a goal in racecar design, to have a part do more than one thing at a time to save weight...ala Lotus for instance. Firstly, the clamp is positioned to straddle the base and wheel stub interface. Which stabilizes any tendency towards wobble (you wind up with zero forever). And secondly since it pressed down on the heads of the two allen bolts, it prevents them from loosening/unwinding as the wheel is used. I selected one with a plastic knob for no-tool swaps. And I slid on some black heat shrink tubing I had laying around to give it a coordinated appearance with the parts with which it lives on the sim wheel. In use you kill the wobble concern and things never loosen up or wear unnecessarily.
 
What I am doing with belts on my Fanatec wheel "can't be done" so it took me a few extra months to complete lol. It's pretty trick however and many custom bits, machined parts, extra mechanisms and the like are involved. If it was a product roughly three US patents might be involved. Those of you who also create may better understand my perspective here. It would take 100s of forum posts to adequately explain well enough for some of your DIY efforts. Those who originate/create have similarly faced some of the off topic remarks over time I see here I am sure, that is par for the course, shrug. Those tend to suppress sharing some think. For those who want a cheap, fast 1-800 / live chat way to cut your wheel's drag by a factor of 100, well that is not coming from me any time soon. But the concept drives great which really is the GOLD takeaway from this thread. If you do this and surpass my "Magic" threshold you may feel like hanging a picture of me on your wall haha. Cuz you'll run faster than ever in your races.

Much as I'm equipped with many and varied barbs in my arsenal, I'm not a completely write a person off kind of guy. To be honest, the first bold bit is the part that actually resounds with me. I feel that you have every right to be protective over those sorts of things. It absolutely pisses me off when I see people profiting from pirating my music, and patent issues tread very similar ground. As for the second bold bit: un-openness and lack of information are not the same thing. Lack of information might be the flag, but I think that the sense of un-openness is at the heart of what people take issue with.

Super low drag doesn't really interest me that much. It's only really of interest to the point where immersion is improved. I like the idea of being fast, but suspension of disbelief will always be king for me. Purity and clarity go hand in hand, and I'd hate to work really hard on improving clarity, only to find that the purity of the source is just not there.
 
Much as I'm equipped with many and varied barbs in my arsenal, I'm not a completely write a person off kind of guy. To be honest, the first bold bit is the part that actually resounds with me. I feel that you have every right to be protective over those sorts of things. It absolutely pisses me off when I see people profiting from pirating my music, and patent issues tread very similar ground. As for the second bold bit: un-openness and lack of information are not the same thing. Lack of information might be the flag, but I think that the sense of un-openness is at the heart of what people take issue with.

Super low drag doesn't really interest me that much. It's only really of interest to the point where immersion is improved. I like the idea of being fast, but suspension of disbelief will always be king for me. Purity and clarity go hand in hand, and I'd hate to work really hard on improving clarity, only to find that the purity of the source is just not there.

Yeah I recall an article from 2011 that noted that 19 out of 20 music downloads => illegal. Between things like that and all the privacy / security / governmental control issues coming up over the last year or so it can make you wonder. Maybe the internet could use some fine tuning? How can this be accomplished without crushing freedom and raising costs I wonder. Not making it worse I mean. I'm one of those folks that BUYS their music, movies, and games legit, and I tip well when I go out.

On drag levels..when you are racing and narrowly lose to some rival...well you may want lower drag at that time since it would have sped you up and possibly higher results or even victory. In my research efforts to figure out how important drag is to car control and feel, I needed to get it uber low so that it was effectively gone. A good practical goal for sim wheels might be to get it under about 50 grams at the rim which is not that hard to accomplish. It is enough below the "magic" threshold that you'll certainly find speed out on the track.
 
Much as I'm equipped with many and varied barbs in my arsenal, I'm not a completely write a person off kind of guy. To be honest, the first bold bit is the part that actually resounds with me. I feel that you have every right to be protective over those sorts of things. It absolutely pisses me off when I see people profiting from pirating my music, and patent issues tread very similar ground. As for the second bold bit: un-openness and lack of information are not the same thing. Lack of information might be the flag, but I think that the sense of un-openness is at the heart of what people take issue with.

Super low drag doesn't really interest me that much. It's only really of interest to the point where immersion is improved. I like the idea of being fast, but suspension of disbelief will always be king for me. Purity and clarity go hand in hand, and I'd hate to work really hard on improving clarity, only to find that the purity of the source is just not there.

That's understandable in such a case. But in this instance we have been told over and over that the OP is not interested in selling anything, so IMO that doesn't hold water in this case. Just like the "hundreds of posts" it would take to explain. OP acts as though he has a captive audience of kindergarteners. It's the same story over and over again.

These types of comment:

So mainly I am sharing the goal as opposed to the voice assist GPS road map which also reminds you to buy milk on the way home. I'm sorry if some of you find that difficult to accept. For those who want a cheap, fast 1-800 / live chat way to cut your wheel's drag by a factor of 100, well that is not coming from me any time soon. But the concept drives great which really is the GOLD takeaway from this thread. If you do this and surpass my "Magic" threshold you may feel like hanging a picture of me on your wall haha. Cuz you'll run faster than ever in your races.

are exactly the type of thing that irritates the heck out of everyone, and were mentioned throughout the earlier part of this thread by several members. The first bit is a subtle insult, and the 2nd is just ridiculous. People should hang a picture of you on their wall because you offered a generality?! :bowdown: 🤬 Oh, uh, RacerXX - you should totally mod your wheel to make it better. Perhaps think about messing with the firmware, or figure out how to lighten your rim near the periphery to reduce rotational inertia. Now you should be thankful to me and idolize me, I totally gave you a generality that should just rock your world. :rolleyes: :D On another note, kudos for actually posting a pic and describing a useful mod for the Elite guys. Was that so hard?

As for the "low drag" situation it is certainly a good thing for feel and thus immersion but I think there is a point of diminishing return which is arrived at quite rapidly and that there are very few amongst us who are consistent or fast enough to be worried about the fractional tenths of a second difference the reduction might make to lap times. Better would be to concentrate on practicing our laps, I think. I am surprised to hear that you don't feel much of a difference in going from the stock Elite rim to the Formula rim considering there is nearly a 1.5" difference in diameter. They are nearly equal in weight in stock form however: 2lbs. 10.5oz for the formula rim and 2 lbs. 9 oz. for the stock CSR Elite rim.
 
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RacerXX. If you surely believe that lowering the drag is that important to you then I have a much better idea for you.
How about totally eliminating the belt drive method and replacing it with a chain drive. With this method there is no need to have any measurable tension and therefor greatly reduced friction and virtually no drag at all. No worn belts to deal with along with reduced friction on the motor shaft.
Or how about a little exercise now and then. You just might be surprised at the effects.
By the way if you decide to use my idea you can go ahead and use my picture on your wall.💡
 
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RacerXX. If you surely believe that lowering the drag is that important to you then I have a much better idea for you.
How about totally eliminating the belt drive method and replacing it with a chain drive. With this method there is no need to have any measurable tension and therefor greatly reduced friction and virtually no drag at all. No worn belts to deal with along with reduced friction on the motor shaft.
Or how about a little exercise now and then. You just might be surprised at the effects.
By the way if you decide to use my idea you can go ahead and use my picture on your wall.💡



LOL
 
That's understandable in such a case. But in this instance we have been told over and over that the OP is not interested in selling anything, so IMO that doesn't hold water in this case. Just like the "hundreds of posts" it would take to explain. OP acts as though he has a captive audience of kindergarteners. It's the same story over and over again.

The right, and reserving the right to patent something or make money from something are both fine with me. If it was stated as that, and only ever stated as that being the reason, it'd be disappointing, but I'd have no issue. Trouble comes with the multiple defensive acts. Most important for me is the prevailing attitude, and it doesn't take hundreds of posts to let people know that you're genuine and open.

Ultimately this thread has ended up involving two things: 1. One person telling others what they should learn (drag, yada, yada), but not attempting to teach the people that are willing to hear, and 2) Others telling the one person what should be learnt (how to interact with people), and actually attempting to teach the one that doesn't want to hear.

That said, RXX could still win me over in an instant. It wouldn't take a step by step guide, and detailed list of parts. All it would take would be to impart that he's a part of, and not above the community.
 
Guys, I have been extremely busy since the last half of last year...still ongoing, sorry. I'm not likely to have as much time for my sim forum posting hobbies as I'd prefer for awhile. I've remained very active in actual modding and making parts to try out. Found some good stuff IMO. When I have more time I'll be more present.

I'm much less likely to share much about some other interesting out of the box things I have come up with if the ensuing discussion is mostly off topic. There are several other things that will find you sim racing speed, and they are seldom or never discussed. In this thread, please feel free to share your own drag measurements and what you have noticed on track once you get drag nice and low. You know, get back on topic?

Meanwhile I've shared this worthy goal along with some measured threshold figures which I believe to be very important to sim racing performance. Those who have a chance to incorporate goals like this one into their own modified rigs will most certainly find on-track speed if that is something they prioritize. I think finding speed is important, others may have different goals for their sim racing which is fine of course.

My view on the group matters is to look back at my comments earlier in this thread RE group dynamics. If you are trying to discover some things, (pure research) they will hold you back. That is a big part of why you'll seldom read about them on most forums in general. If you don't create much some of this will not click with you. I'm not trying to sell products to you guys or win any popularity contests. If you get your wheel drag very low I am 100% sure that you will really like how it allows your skills to achieve better results against the clock and in finishing positions. And secondly your skills can further develop if you feel you have plateaued. You'll break personal bests at tracks you've been wrestling with for years, and beat rivals you've always had trouble with out on the track. Do that a time or three and it may be tough to wipe the smile off your face.
 
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Research? isn't that what we are doing? Are you talking about scientific analysis involving developing hypothesis and testing, and developing conclusions with proper documentation? Whoa whoa whoa, we're sim racers not scientists man! Isn't that the whole reason for the internet anyways?
Anybody else getting this kinda vibe from him>
Ian-Malcolm-e1316167525729_zps373065e2.jpg
[/URL][/IMG]
Dr. Ian Malcolm: If I may... Um, I'll tell you the problem with the scientific power that you're using here, it didn't require any discipline to attain it. You read what others had done and you took the next step. You didn't earn the knowledge for yourselves, so you don't take any responsibility for it. You stood on the shoulders of geniuses to accomplish something as fast as you could, and before you even knew what you had, you patented it, and packaged it, and slapped it on a plastic lunchbox, and now [bangs on the table] you're selling it, you wanna sell it. Well...
 
Research? isn't that what we are doing? Are you talking about scientific analysis involving developing hypothesis and testing, and developing conclusions with proper documentation? Whoa whoa whoa, we're sim racers not scientists man! Isn't that the whole reason for the internet anyways?
Anybody else getting this kinda vibe from him>
Ian-Malcolm-e1316167525729_zps373065e2.jpg
[/URL][/IMG]
Dr. Ian Malcolm: If I may... Um, I'll tell you the problem with the scientific power that you're using here, it didn't require any discipline to attain it. You read what others had done and you took the next step. You didn't earn the knowledge for yourselves, so you don't take any responsibility for it. You stood on the shoulders of geniuses to accomplish something as fast as you could, and before you even knew what you had, you patented it, and packaged it, and slapped it on a plastic lunchbox, and now [bangs on the table] you're selling it, you wanna sell it. Well...

Lol I remember that scene...was just discussing a movie (Event Horizon) yesterday where the actor who played the JP paleontologist (who warned Ian to "freeze") played the space ship drive inventor, another egghead role for him.

The concept in this thread (Linearity & Low Drag) is one of five sim racing hardware areas I've looked into over the past year. Each of the five has lap time effects. I should have a chance to post about the second concept fairly soon. It's somewhat related to this one and I have some nice datalogs for it proving the point. Gotta locate those, very accurate measurements using additional sensors and a Race Technology DL1 datalogger (which is independent from the wheel base electronics or PC or sim software). It goes against conventional wisdom and brings up some new areas to investigate, but the data is the data.

Back on topic for this thread, here is what a power off low drag wheel acts like when cold with a gentle flick. It improves noticeably after about 5-10 race laps, or with a heavier wheel (will add GIF when available). Warmed up the wheel eventually settles upside down since the top of the Formula Rim is the "heavy" side of that device. The stock round rim is bottom heavy. You won't notice this when driving or at all when coasting with a high drag wheel base.

I'm losing some energy with my near stock steering travel limiters, but I have a zero drag limit design completed. It's very simple, adjustable, and actually much less expensive to produce than what Fanatec utilized. This won't help you find track speed (since if you keep hitting the 900º range on the track all the time something is wrong), however it will be kinda cool. Some of my setups wind up Wheelcheck Step testing with lots of end limit action. As in hitting the end limits at each of the three 300 ms pulses. And then going back and forth for awhile after the 3rd pulse ends and the wheel is just coasting. Presently it can do 5 or 6 clacks during the test when set for low drag and high torque/rpm. Maybe I can get it to go longer. Plus no more cleaning/lubing the stock limiter threads.


Lo-Drag-E_zps8df8c83e.gif
 
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Are you still using the quad setup of stock motors?

I mostly use either two or four stock motors that have been tweaked. I have lots of the stock motors laying around so I can use many at once if desired. I also use brushed non-stockers and am playing with brushless and servo direct drive rigs this year. No motor woes whatsoever - due to the ultra low drag, low belt tensioning, and cool operating temperatures under full load they actually have an easy life now.

So far I have not found my old datalogs (changed computers a couple times, now on rMBP 15) for my next thread. I can redo those when my logger gets serviced if need be. In the meantime I may use some high speed video 120 - 240 fps to show something I came across which can help modders find speed on the race track as there are some characteristics that make stock wheels hold the driver back a bit.
 
Edited title to add "(1)" as number (2) will be coming out fairly soon. This one has to do with another speed secret that can help you find lap time results, however it is an offshoot of (1). At this point I have a total of five topics to share over time.
 
At this point I have a total of five topics to share over time.
You just made me laugh out loud...I hope I didn't wake my mother (seriously). Thank you for lifting my mood.

I eagerly await the topics.
 
Edited title to add "(1)" as number (2) will be coming out fairly soon. This one has to do with another speed secret that can help you find lap time results, however it is an offshoot of (1). At this point I have a total of five topics to share over time.

Oh be still my heart, LOL.
 
Cutting drag a bit further, here is the stock mechanical limiter which I've just replaced with a lo-drag variation. Note that it is sitting on an angle, and that the stop hangs up a bit at that end of the travel. They have some drag at the four poles, as well as at the threading. The latter is more of an issue at the ends of travel on my sample, since the sides of the threads jam up against one another at those times. While I'm at it I'll also cut some drag at the cables that run through the steering shaft. Those two changes should put me under 15 grams on the Formula rim. My old limit was 15 grams at the (larger) OD of the round CSR-E rim.

Also note the very low drag exhibited by the Bodnar Wheel and presumably the Accuforce. You can see the former device free wheel by hand at the beginning of some of the sample videos. Hey mine is similar and it really DOES feel great on the track, and it does help you uncover speed compared to the usual High-Drag FFB wheels out there.

IMG_2007_DxO_zpsc3b5eab6.jpg
 
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