10 reasons why Ferrari Challenge is better than GT5P

Discussion in 'Gran Turismo 5: Prologue' started by Biggles, Dec 10, 2008.

  1. Biggles

    Biggles

    Messages:
    5,580
    It’s been increasingly frustrating to go online every evening & see my all GTP buddies logged into GT5P – none of them apparently willing to try Ferrari Challenge. So here, I've stuck my neck out, & as a public service, I've compiled the top ten reasons why Ferrari Challenge is a better game than GT5P. Yes, I know, I must be :crazy:

    1) Tracks – FC has got 14 excellent tracks, some of them long-established favorites like Spa, Mugello, Montreal, others great, but less-known like Mont Tremblant & Virginia Raceway. In comparison, GT5P offers a handful of tracks, some of dubious interest &, in any case, not all available for online racing.

    2) Physics – I wouldn’t go so far as to say FC has better physics. The physics are excellent, perhaps a little less detailed & complex than GT5P, but what is far superior IMO is the implementation of FFB. FC is the first console game I’ve played that really communicates the feel of driving & cornering at speed through the wheel. The driver can actually feel the sense of weight transfer & loss of grip – the tires not just sliding through the turn, but alternately gripping & slipping as they are pushed beyond their limits. On the fast downhill corners of Spa, you can actually feel the back end lighten up as the weight shifts to the front tires under extreme braking & turning – it’s really an amazing sensation. In comparison, in GT5P the physics may be there, but you don’t really feel them in the same way, you have to find the correct balance more by experience & trial & error.

    3) Private Lobbies – no need for further comment. Also: there is no region locking or “World Events” – Hello Oz! Hello Sweden! Hello Tajekistan! Let’s get it on!

    4) Online options – pick your car, track, the length of race (it’s great to have the option of running a 30 minute race with well-matched opponents!), assists available etc.

    5) Offline Gameplay - decent AI & no ridiculous "mission" events that require endless repetition to learn exactly how to pass 15 cars in 3 laps!

    6) Collisions – in FC the cars react to contact – bumping & ramming does have consequences – but not the wildly exaggerated shunting that takes place in GT5P. This remains one of the biggest mysteries about online GT5P – why did PD program these reactions into the online game? A good percentage of the posts on these forums have to do with online “punting”. A lot of that punting has less to do with bad or reckless driving & more to do with the weird consequences of the collision calculations. How many times have you been knocked off by someone ricocheting wildly from a collision with another ricocheting car bumped by another car? In FC you can actually drive side-by-side with another car through a corner, trading paint while you jockey for position.

    7) Weather – races in the rain are an option, with more demanding but reasonable physics. The wet graphics are outstanding – the best visuals in the game.

    8) Time clock – a small, but significant feature. The game shows the difference between your time & the car in front & behind allowing you to evaluate your driving on a moment-by-moment basis. In practice, this adds interest to long races, particularly when you are a significant distance away from your rivals. BTW, no RBE! Never had it, never will!

    9) Visual customization – as in Forza, you can paint & sticker your car to make it unique on the track.

    10) Cars – they’re Ferraris!

    So, to be fair, here are the shortcomings of FC:

    1) Graphics – it’s not GT5P. The visuals, although rich & detailed, have an unrealistic, almost cartoony quality to them compared to the startling realism of GT5P. This gives an arcadey feel to the driving, in spite of the great physics. It takes a while to get used to this after being accustomed to GT5P, but with time it is not something that you worry about. As always: Gameplay>Graphics.

    2) No tuning options – if you like to tinker around with your car, you’re out of luck. Personally, I don’t have much interest in this & it makes the racing dependent entirely on driver skill.

    3) Frame-rate stutter – although, in general, the online visuals are the same as offline, when you are close (within passing distance) to another online car, the frame rate & sound often “stutters”. This is a significant problem, detracting from the precision of close-racing. However, although disturbing, IMO the major negative aspect of the game, it is not a game-killer. Over-all the racing is very satisfying.

    4) No ghost replays offline/online & limited replay functions.

    5) Cars – they’re ALL Ferraris!

    So, if FC is so good why are so few people playing it? Well, like Formula One Championship Edition before it, it had some problems when it launched. Like F1CE, it’s not a game that is likely to appeal to the “casual gamer”, so, for the casual gamer the reviews are pretty realistic. But for the committed GTPer, endlessly running the same couple of GT5P tracks online, over & over again, & waiting with infinite patience & dedication for any sign of the Fifth Coming, the purchase of Ferrari Challenge should be a no-brainer. Trust me... :)
     
    Last edited: Jan 18, 2009
  2. The Outlaw

    The Outlaw Premium

    Messages:
    3,041
    Location:
    United States
    If I get a wheel sometime soon I will join you. I picked up FC a while ago but have only logged about 30 minutes. I didn't like the physics all that much when I played it with the controller...sounds like it's impressive with the wheel. The thing I like about FC is all of the big name tracks to choose from.
     
  3. SteveO1965

    SteveO1965

    Messages:
    1,029
    Great writeup, i hope Santa is bringing me FC, i have dropped enough hints lol.
     
  4. Kryz11

    Kryz11 Premium

    Messages:
    6,674
    You compare a Supercharged DEMO to a full game. GT5 is just getting started.


    It's funny. Physics are not as close to GT5P and not even CLOSER to PC sim racing. Sim Racing Tonight did the review of it.. and it's far far behind PC.
     
  5. bicycleshorts

    bicycleshorts

    Messages:
    344
    I was considering getting Ferrari Challenge, till I read the following post in the FC forums:

    If anyone can confirm this is no longer (or was never) true, I will happily buy it. Until then I refuse to give anyone £40 who will lie on the cover of a game box.
     
  6. Exorcet

    Exorcet

    Messages:
    7,158
    When I heard about FC, I was very interested. Sadly, no demo has been released, and since I have GT5P already, I didn't see enough reason to risk $50.

    My main concern though was physics. That's enough for me to determine the better game. If what you say is true, GT5P is superior. However, the feel of FC sounds interesting and worth trying.

    For your other points, 1 and 6-10, Prologue is a demo so it doesn't bother me much. Everyone knew well in advanced that it would lack some features and bought it anyway.

    3-5 (the online parts in particular) should be in Prologue though.

    In anycase, Christams is quickly approaching, so I may end up joining you soon.
     
  7. P1

    P1

    Messages:
    599
    Id take GT5P of FC anyday but FC is all right when GT get a bit boring.
     
  8. theewar

    theewar

    Messages:
    506
    Location:
    Ireland
    I got the game last week,after GTP_hun put the tumb screws on me:p.And i have to say i liked it a lot.The graphics like you say are not the best,but the handling physics are great..:tup:.only problem is my ps3 got the (ylod)while i was playing it,so i cant play anything at the moment:sick:but rest assured when i get my ps3 back it will be seeing a lot of FC;).I just hope they send back the game to me as well,since its still in the dead one.
     
  9. Biggles

    Biggles

    Messages:
    5,580
    I don't have much doubt that GT5 will be a vastly superior game to FC, when it comes out, whenever that may be. My comparison is not FC to GT5, which doesn't exist, it is to GT5P

    I wouldn't say that GT5P's physics are superior. FC's physics are different from GT5P's, perhaps a bit less complex, but still very challenging & somehow more convincing in feel - hard to explain until you have devoted some time to it.

    Yes, there has been some BS with regard to the promises made by the publishers of FC. FC users are quite annoyed about it. However, my judgement is based on the game as it is, rather than what was "promised". I think you'll find GTP_Hun has forgiven & moved on... ;)

    Seems like PD also made promises about DLC, private lobbies etc. for GT5P, which haven't (yet) come to pass. Of course, with PD you can never be sure if the promises were actual promises, rumours, or just figments of someone's fevered imagination... :indiff:
     
    Last edited: Dec 10, 2008
  10. RACECAR

    RACECAR Premium

    Messages:
    32,429
    Location:
    United States
    I'm abit miffed as to how you are so frustraited that just your GTP buddies aren't playing. Have they listed any specific reasons as to why they don't play it?

    I think his point was why compare a complete game to a teaser demo at all.
     
  11. tinram

    tinram

    Messages:
    1,255
    I have FC ( got it the same week it released ) and GT5P.

    FC has this raw feeling when driving the car, but i feel detached.
    FC's graphics is good, but when you are used to GT5P, it just does not compare.

    FC does not have that "thing" that brings me back ever so often like GT5P.

    When i'm stressed out there's always GT5P waiting to clear my mind.

    just my thoughts.
     
  12. Biggles

    Biggles

    Messages:
    5,580
    Yes, there is a "rawness" to FC (partly the sound of the cars), but definitely not "detached" feeling. I think GT5P has a more complex, sophisticated feel but more "detached".

    I am encouraging fellow GTPers to see that there are good options other than the brilliant, but limited GT5P, & waiting for GT5.
     
  13. JosVerstappen

    JosVerstappen

    Messages:
    495
    graphics are pretty good 8/10
    sounds are not bad but shifting sounds dull 7/10
    physics, I have no idea, can't feel anything through the wheel (g25)
    FFB, like I said, hardly any feeling off driving a car, that's where the game fails for me.

    I enjoyed the game more with a gamepad then the g25 tbh...
     
  14. Zathra5_

    Zathra5_

    Messages:
    811
    Jos: when did you last play the game and what setting did you have the ffb at?

    The steering with the G25 is considerably better now that the patch is out. I keep the ffb at its highest setting. It does give a lot of feedback that is missing from GT5P. I think that GT5P is probably more realistic but FC gives feedback that you are missing from your other senses. Consequently I find correcting slides much more realistic than in GT5P (not that I spin out cars at over 160kph).

    I guess what it comes down to is that FC is really the only alternative to GT5P. GT5P is currently limited in tracks and online options. If you can only afford one, get GT5P. If you can afford both, I'd suggest that you get both. FC is a really fun game. The new patch has made a world of difference with the steering. The tracks are a lot of fun and quite a bit different from what you get with GT5P. I haven't played a lot of online but my impression is that it just lags differently. In GT5P you get people zig-zagging in FC they kind of disappear and reappear.

    Sorry Jos, I see that you are from Holland. Europe doesn't have the fixed ffb yet. You will still have a lot more feedback if you set the ffb to high but it has a deadzone problem. Hopefully you will get that patch soon. It makes a world of difference.
     
  15. LR-PR-ProtoX

    LR-PR-ProtoX

    Messages:
    148
    I totally agree with you expect in one thing....Online Racing. Online Racing is so laggy, you have no idea where the car is front you, they already said that they aren't going to fix it...since they are working on the new sim game. Oh well...I guess it's time for me to return the game and get some cash while I can. Hopefully the new game is going to be better than this, other than that, awesome game, if you like Ferraris only! :p
     
  16. peter_vod69

    peter_vod69

    Messages:
    2,073
    Location:
    Australia
    The one thing that I _really_ hate about Ferrari Challenge is the huge deadzone in the middle, means that on the long straights I'm constantly correcting one way or the other - the damn thing just won't settle. It is annoying it what is otherwise a comprehensively entertaining game.
     
  17. Zathra5_

    Zathra5_

    Messages:
    811
    The only online races I did were with two guys in France. Lag wasn't too bad.

    Peter: the north american patch has fixed the deadzone. I assume that Europe will eventually get the fix as well. Europe usually gets patches long before we do.
     
  18. peter_vod69

    peter_vod69

    Messages:
    2,073
    Location:
    Australia
    Cheers Zathra, although I don't hold out much hope for anything being released for FC now.
     
  19. panjandrum

    panjandrum

    Messages:
    1,027
    I also have Ferrari Challenge but haven't really found the time to delve into it. The primary thing holding me back (other than lack of time) is the graphics. They are just not up-to-par.

    I've spent maybe 12 hours total on it, and I do enjoy it. The wheel-feedback is much "cruder". It just feels rougher around the edges. However, it also rewards driving the proper line better than GT5P does (in other words, it is less forgiving of driver error). It may be that the physics overall are not any more realistic than GT5P, but I do appreciate that when I screw up badly, the proper result happens (ouch!)
     
  20. Zathra5_

    Zathra5_

    Messages:
    811
    Peter: Unfortunately you could be right there. I wouldn't buy the game assuming that any more content will come available (especially the promised DLC).

    If the online is really as bad as people say, I guess I'll continue playing FC offline and GT5P online. But I just moved and have a faster internet connection. I wouldn't mind trying to host some games sometime. On my old connection, I could only host a two car race on GT5P.
     
  21. Biggles

    Biggles

    Messages:
    5,580
    The deadzone issue was a major problem that was fixed with the N.A. patch. I play against a number of European racers using wheels, some of whom have indicated that they have no problem with a deadzone, but I can't speak from personal experience about the European situation.

    I'm baffled about Jos the Boss's comments with regard to FFB - I have heard many complaints about the FFB being too heavy (before the patch), but no comments about it being too light. I would never give FC an 8/10 for graphics - more like a 6.5 or 7, where GT5P is a 9/10. Coming from GT5P the graphics bothered me at first, but now I find them perfectly fine & mostly irrelevant to the racing experience.

    I have played online quite a lot now, with players from N.A. & Europe. In general, I experience no lag at all, except for what I describe as a "stuttering" frame rate when you get very close to another car. It is quite unlike the occasional lag that occurs in GT5P & it is a significant problem. However, I must emphasize: the online is very satisfying overall.

    I think what you are saying Zathra, is correct: there's more to PS3 sims than GT5P. FC is not perfect, but it is very good & offers a great alternative to endlessly running the same tracks in GT5P. To fully appreciate it does take a little time & practice, however. I'm hoping to get together with more GTP drivers online, but be warned, as with GT5P, there is a high skill level required & some very fast drivers out there.
     
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2008
  22. unimental

    unimental

    Messages:
    284
    I want to like FC, I really do... but two things conspire against it:

    1) 30 FPS (concerns me with RACE Pro on the 360 as well... no "sim" runs at less than 60).
    2) The tracks are, in many cases, way off. Mugello and VIR are horrendous, I think due to a general problem with elevation changes in their modelling.
     
  23. DriifterX

    DriifterX

    Messages:
    138
    Does FC have clutch function for G25 use?
     
  24. Hun200kmh

    Hun200kmh

    Messages:
    6,612
    Location:
    Portugal
    Are you french canadian and in anyway related to Piers Courage, Biggles??? :D

    Well, I'll just add a few thoughts. First, I don't take anything back from what I wrote a few months ago and has now been quoted here. I was very angry, and I still am. But ... the truth is that:

    a) after my return to GT5P, I did - again, and again, and again, ... - many races in HSR, Suzuka, Fuji and now a few at Daytona Road, and ... I got a litle bored of it. I know Gt5P is just an enhanced demo, and a great one because it kept me (and still keeps hundreds) a few more months of almost exclusive play. In fact, I still play it every now and then, particularly when the "Thunder & Lightning Team" organizes events :D ... but it is very limited. PD could take 70% of the cars it has, I wouldn't mind. But the lack of other tracks really limits the fun I can get from it.

    c) FC is a great game, there's no denying it. Very hard at first, very rewarding after ...

    Jos, back when you and I both used to post in the FC forum, I was using the pad because the game didn't recognize properly my old wheel (a Driving Force). In the meantime, two patches came out and I got myself a G25. So I can't compare how was the deadzone issue then to what it may be now. However ... I have no complaints. In fact, I find the overall feel of the G25 and especially the FF implementation in FC nothing short of brilliant and surely a lot better than it is in GT5P. In FC I "feel" the road, the weight of the car, in GT5P I just see it and hear it.

    One simple example on how GT5P got it wrong and FC got it right:

    When you start to lose grip in your front tyres (because you locked your brakes, because of understeering), everybody knows that the wheel of a car IRL becomes lighter. And that happens in FC, you can feel that the front tyres "detached" themselves from the tarmac (and it is a great help to deal with understeering) but not in GT5P, where the FF of the wheel remains constant, or even gets stronger when you start understeering and try to correct it.

    I think Biggles covered it all, both the pros and the cons of FC, so there's no need for me to go over that again. I'm not impatient about meeting other GTPers in FC online. Most of my closest GTP friends already have it and I'm sure we'll soon have hard fought battles using several Ferraris in tracks I love (like Spa) in dry and wet conditions, in our own private lobbies, only open to people we invite ... and with in game voice chat (I don't think Biggles mentioned this, he's a silent guy, doesn't talk while racing :) ).

    Until GT5 arrives ...
     
  25. Biggles

    Biggles

    Messages:
    5,580
    1) 30 FPS doesn't really bother me.

    2) As with the graphics in general, the track "realism" just isn't there. The two things together give an arcadey visual quality to the game, that I found disturbing at first. However, the actual physics of the racing is good, & after a while you become accustomed to the visuals & accept them for what they are.

    3) I forgot to mention: the "cockpit" view doesn't even begin to compare with GT5P.
     
  26. geo1098

    geo1098

    Messages:
    77
    I bought Ferrari Challenge when it came out in the states and I will agree, when on the brakes, it is very realistic. You can feel through the wheel the tail lighten up. Unfortunately that was the only thing I liked about it. I do hope PD is looking into a way to steal that feeling for GT5. That was the only advantage, that said, the disadvatages are extensive.
    The worst probably was the AI, it would just crash into my car or ram me, actually not unlike playing online GT5P with all the punters. My only hope was to get out front before another car crashed into me. Tons of bugs on the release, and I mean tons. Could not exit out of the reply, hangs during the game, some cars inside view was great, others was like the driver was sitting on the dash. Handling of certain cars was arcade like, i.e. too fake. If you enjoy GT5P for it's attention to detail you will not be pleased with FC.
     
  27. Biggles

    Biggles

    Messages:
    5,580
    Yeah, FC was released prematurely. Most of the bugs have now been ironed out. The AI, while not perfect, is significantly better than GT5P's IMO, but my focus is now on online racing anyway. Please see my original comment about "collisions" - as I say, one of the most puzzling things about GT5P online.

    No question, the GT series has always been about attention to detail. It's why we are still waiting for any additional content for GT5P (let alone GT5), but why, when it does finally arrive, it will be excellent.
     
  28. unimental

    unimental

    Messages:
    284
    It's not so much the look of the tracks or graphics in general that I'm referring to, but the actual layouts of the tracks. Again, I think it gets worse with more undulating courses.
     
  29. Kneedragger

    Kneedragger

    Messages:
    295
    If (and its a big IF) the FC developer could have coded the game for PS3 only, it would have probably been an instant classic-of-sorts. The developer admits that multi-platform constraints got in the way of adding certain features. Its a huge shame really.
    Nobody doubts that GT5 is going to shake up the world, but it would have been nice to play for several months on a true quality product in the meantime. Polyphony are the only ones who seem to dedicate themselves to greatness one platform at a time. The others just toss out platform versions like confetti.
     
  30. Biggles

    Biggles

    Messages:
    5,580
    Yes, I understood that was what you were referring to.

    Hmm... I just realized I forgot to mention:

    11) Drafting - in FC the drafting is "realistic": in FC if you manage to fight your way close to the car in front coming out of a turn, you are able to draft it on the straight. Unlike GT5P drafting doesn't take effect when you are 200 metres behind the car in front. :rolleyes: I really have no idea why GT5P is like this. Like "Collisions" in GT5P it really makes no sense.