2006 Chevrolet Corvette Z06 @ the N-Ring

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BlazinXtreme
The Viper is a joke, I've never ever liked that car. It's a motor with wheels, a needlessly big motor. The Vette Z06 gives you better preformance and it has to less cylinders and better gas mileage. I don't see what the obsession with the Dodge Viper is, I don't think it looks cool and I'm not impressed with preformance other then the accleration and top speed (well sorta impressed). I'll stick with my Corvette any day.
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That's cool, but I definately wouldn't call it a joke.

In the 1990s, I"m sure RT-10 could probably eat up any Corvette back in the day.
I wouldn't doubt, thanks to Dodge, Chevrolet has put even more eyes on making the Corvette badder. (In a good way, I mean)
 
The Viper's handling is just as underrated as the Corvette's. While I doubt you could call it "comfortable", the Viper can take a turn very well. Also, it has some of the most effective brakes around (60-0 in less than 100 feet). I'd wager on the new coupe being a fair match for the Z06, though I'm not so foolish to believe it would completely destroy it.
 
Show me the official times from the 'ring of the SRT-10 and the M3 (E46) CSL--I think the Viper SRT-10 posted an 8:13 and the CSL posted a 7:50.
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Wow, who was driving that CSL? That's pretty damn good. Still, I'm 90% sure that was the SRT-10 convertible. If so, the coupe is lighter, has excellent brakes, and is more structurally sound. It should outperform the convertible by a fair margin.
 
Say the Viper can turn very well to all the people who test drove them in Europe, thay called it a sack of **** but in nicer words. That fact was represented with poor on track performances getting beat by much less powerful cars on the TopGear track, Nurburgring and others. For a 70 grand 500Bhp sportscar, it's pretty appaling, the 350Bhp TVR T350C beats it as does the CSL and the C6.

BTW, anyone noticed just how baddass the Morgan Aero 8 GT is on a track, I was so suprised when it appeared on TopGear and did as well as it did. My jaw hit the floor.
 
Frankly, I think the Top Gear tests were done under some bias. I've been to many Viper forums in my day, and just about everybody who has one says it takes a corner far better than most give it credit for. There's some lift-throttle oversteer, but anyone who knows what they are doing can deal with that (or even USE it; the Viper has competed successfully in drifting events).

Though, to be perfectly honest, this is the ONE car about which I can say that I honestly don't really care about all of that. I simply love the car. Beyond reason.
 
It's not just TopGear, it's EVERY review in Europe I've read and I've heard the same from someone who bought the SRT-10 and said the same thing about it and then sold it. TopGear's tiems are all done by the same person on the same track, they don't come fairer than that. They don't deliberately drive one car slower, also the cars the SRT-10 got beat by are the same cars it got beat by at other tracks in other tests. It's handling is quite poor, theres nothing wrong in liking the SRT-10, or Vipers in general, I like TVR's for many of the reasons Jerremy Clarkson criticises them for, you're hopefully not going to explore the Vipers limts on a public road, 99% never will anywhere same with most cars.
 
And, for reference, Clarkson absolutely loved the SRT-10 - especially the way the door sills were on fire.
 
Mmm...I'm still not convinced, since I've heard nothing but good things about the Viper's handling abilities, save the lift-throttle oversteer. Also, the stats don't support such claims; the newest generations of Viper have heart-stoppingly short braking distances, enough torque to get going from a trundle faster than you can say "Aremburg", and good scores on the skidpad and slalom. With all that, the Viper still isn't supposed to be able to take a turn? Come on, something's up.
 
Yes somethngs up, the official numbers are far better than all the independent ones I've read including the best automotive magazines in the world and the ones shown on TopGear. They compared the SRT-10 to the C6 and showed just how much worse round a track the SRT-10 was, Jerremy did his usual over exaggreation stuff but the point was made and the backed up by the Stig's lap and has been backed up before and since with various other tests and articles in car magazines. Slalom tests arn't always best either because you can use the oversteer to you're advantage whcih was probably the case in most slalom tests that have given missleading results.

Good cornering is when a car goes round a corner fast without the back end stepping out into a big oversteer. Thats bad for a track, not so much so in a slalom since you can manipulate the oversteer into a flowing rythem. A car with good cornering would be the F430 or Noble M12, they corner precise and flat, the SRT-10 sways and steps out. The C6 steps out when you try to get it to or push a little harder than normal, the SRT-10 trys hard to step out before the limits are close.
 
That explains a lot. The Viper has never been a particularly forgiving car (though the SRT-10 is better in this regard than the GTS). 50 to 1 says that's the lift-throttle oversteer I was talking about. With practice, it can be lessened (some guys can virtually eliminate it altogether) and the cornering times improved (though some people prefer to just adjust the suspension and wheels instead and tame the oversteer that way). It's not a permanent impairment that can't be dealt with.
 
You can modify any car to reduce oversteer/understeer, which is nice. I prefer the C6 to the SRT-10 though, I'm not a big SRT-10 fan but I quite like the C6. I just wish it was leather and was offered with rhd, then I'd like to think I'd consider one, but deep down I know I'd just pick the Sagaris no matter what, I just love that car.
 
Well, I'm not going to force my opinion on ya. :) And I'll admit that it is a weakness of the Viper that, instead of having enough balance for a casual driver to corner more or less efficiently right off the bat, you have to drive the car for a while and learn how to counter the lift-throttle oversteer before you see those lap times start dropping (or just get into the thing's guts and make it handle the way you want). Such is the way of an imperfect world.
 
Actually back in the day the Viper and Corvette were on par, the only thing the Viper did better was the top speed. I wrote a 20 page paper my sophmore year between the Viper and Corvette, as my final project. I concluded that both were superior cars.

I just don't like the Viper, never had and more then liikely never will.
 
Everybody's got their favorites and least favorites, nothing wrong with that. And, to be honest, I'm glad that there's at least ONE American car out there that can prove the nay-sayers wrong.
 
Elegy
Well, I'm not going to force my opinion on ya. :) And I'll admit that it is a weakness of the Viper that, instead of having enough balance for a casual driver to corner more or less efficiently right off the bat, you have to drive the car for a while and learn how to counter the lift-throttle oversteer before you see those lap times start dropping (or just get into the thing's guts and make it handle the way you want). Such is the way of an imperfect world.
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The lap times won't drop much, but you can argue that the times for any car can be beaten so the argument is mute.The times done on the Ring and TopGears track were done by professionals, it's not like they didn't know how to handle it. I think the Viper is capable, but it's a lot more in line with how Europeans generally view American cars, the C6 is much better suited to Europe so it will be looked upon more favourable over here generally. I don;t know the situation between the two in the States but I am aware theres a nice rivalry between fans of the two ;). At the end of the day the Vipers still capable of speed faster than anyone is likely to take it, which is why I always sayt buying a sportscar in this sort of class is more to do with personal taste and image rather than whats faster to the tenth round the Ring.t
 
I wouldn't be entirely sure. Professional driver or not, the Viper is unforgiving. If they attempted to drive it as if it were something like the Noble M12, it wouldn't surprise me that they got underwhelming results. The Viper is its own beast with its own rules. This isn't exactly a great thing, but it's the truth.
 
The Stig can drive other cars just a unforgiving as the SRT-10, and he's driven them fast enough, look the the TVR Tuscan, thats probably even more unforgiving than the SRT-10 and thats faster. I know where you're coming from thats one of the reasons I like TVR's, they make up theri own rules and say screw you to convention. It's a negative to the majority but a positive to me beacsue TVR's are my thing and it's the same for you with the Viper I guess. The M12 handles pretty unique in a very good way so it's not the best example to use, but as I said he's driven hard to drive cars faster, the Viper isn't the ONLY car with a bad temper.
 
IF the corvette and Viper were on par how come the Viper dominated Le Mans til factory backing dissappeared?

I wouldn't go as far as to say the Viper is unforgiving, but it's definately not the easiest car to drive. You can't just hop in it and turn out decent lap times in it. But it is in NO way a slow car. It's a great car, it's just one of the cars that you either love or you hate.
 
I'd love to give you the benefit of the doubt on that, but that just doesn't mesh with all the positive things I've heard about taking the Viper around corners. With all due respect to Stig, I'm more inclined to believe someone who has owned their car for at least several months more than someone who only drives it a few times and not any more after that.
 
Elegy
I'd love to give you the benefit of the doubt on that, but that just doesn't mesh with all the positive things I've heard about taking the Viper around corners. With all due respect to Stig, I'm more inclined to believe someone who has owned their car for at least several months more than someone who only drives it a few times and not any more after that.
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I'm inclined to believe a guy (or gal) that's been a racecar driver and has driven hundreds of cars around the same track all with completely different handling capabilities...and considering alot of them he or she has never driven before on the same track (TopGear course for instance). I've driven previous gen Vipers and every Corvette generation...I still think the C5/C6 is superior versus the Viper R\T-10/GTS or SRT-10. Cornering the Vette easily beats the Viper...I love oversteer as much as the next guy...but sometimes you want to take the turns in the correct corning line at a quicker pace without oversteer. 👍
 
JCE3000GT
I'm inclined to believe a guy (or gal) that's been a racecar driver and has driven hundreds of cars around the same track all with completely different handling capabilities...and considering alot of them he or she has never driven before on the same track (TopGear course for instance). I've driven previous gen Vipers and every Corvette generation...I still think the C5/C6 is superior versus the Viper R\T-10/GTS or SRT-10. Cornering the Vette easily beats the Viper...I love oversteer as much as the next guy...but sometimes you want to take the turns in the correct corning line at a quicker pace without oversteer. 👍
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The GTS was quite a bit more cantankerous than the SRT-10. That snake bit a hell of a lot of inattentive drivers.

That said, though, I really don't think that familiarity can be brushed off so easily regardless of who's doing the driving. I've also seen Viper drivers pull through tight corners at speed with no hint of oversteer, so I'm certain that it is not the fatal flaw many believe it is.

Still...it'd be nice if Dodge was able to neutralize the car's handling even more in the new SRT-10 coupe. :D
 
All these regular people that own a Viper won't have ever pushed it like the Stig will be able to, within a single day a driver like the Stig culd get more feel of how a car will drive at the limts than the average owner ever will. Once again I emphasise, the Stig isn't the only person to show the Vipers handling flaws in a fast lap, it's ALL the performance tests that we see over here and they all go hand in hand. Other track test show the SRT-10 gets beat by the same cars it got beat by round the TopGear track. I'm not saying the Viper is crap, but you can't say that all the professional drivers are wrong and the owners that pootle around town in them know more about how well the car handles at speed, I gaurentee you that if you take a well experienced SRT-10 owner and had him race against the stig in the same car the Stig would be faster. As for cornering at high speed with no oversteer, maybe it can on the right corners but you have to look at the fact that rivals can probably go round that same corner faster with no oversteer.

And Drifster, you can't say Vipers are better beacuse they won more GT races, the race versions do not represent the performance of the road versions. If that was the case then we'd all be expecting the Aston Martin DB9 to keep up with a Z06 on a track and so on. Race cars are built to a class spec and in LeMans GT racing they are very different to the road cars.
 
I wonder if Rumple could give us his opinion. Except he hasn't been here for a while :(

The original Stig has driven in a number of race categories I believe, possibly even a short stint in British GT.

The new stig(s) no doubt have experience comparable and TG would probably choose the most appropiate driver if possible.
 
The thing is, though, most Viper owners don't just ride around in town with their cars, they race them more often than not (the car isn't exactly practical for much else).

I want to believe you, really, but if Top Gear had problems overcoming a handling characteristic that I've honestly seen good Viper pilots successfully deal with...I'm sorry, it just doesn't gel with what I've been told and seen. It's not even necessarily a problem on their end; maybe the Vipers I saw blasting through tight corners (I'm talking stuff like hairpins and tight esses) with ease had their suspension tuned to kill the oversteer. But SOMETHING isn't adding up, SOMEWHERE. And, again, this is all the convertible SRT-10; we don't know what might be different on the new coupe yet.

I can understand where Top Gear might be coming from if it is from a suspension tweak; it's better for a car to have good cornering from stock than to have to create it yourself. A gearhead might disagree, though. :lol: But from what I've seen of the Viper on the curves, it's been given the same undeserved disrespect as the Corvette.
 
Well if you've seen the being raced (on circuits I hope) I'd say they've been tuned, and no MOST owners just flash their cash in them, it's the same with any high performance cars that are capapble on a track. The only type of car around where most owners track them is track day cars like the Radical. TopGear never modify the cars before they test them, that defeats the purpose of testing a caras it comes off the showroom as it will be when most drivers will use it. The Corveet isn't getting any dissrespect, not hear anyway. Theres people, myself included that don't think it will sell well in Europe, but no ones said the Vette isn't capapble or good round a track. Well maybe the odd person, but the majority are in agreement on the C6.
 
Most every Viper owner I've talked to has either raced their car or done time trials on a track with it. *shrug* Maybe not a whole hell of a lot of people, but then again Dodge doesn't normally build a lot of Vipers per model year.

When I'm talking about disrespect, I mean in general, not just this site. This site's been better than most in that regard, thankfully. :)

Frankly, though, these are times when I wish I had some movies of the things I've seen these Vipers do. Makes it a hell of a lot easier to drive home a point when you can, you know, actually back it up. :lol: As it is, though, I got nothing. 'Cept of course for my word. Ah, well, still love the Viper. :D
 
And I bet most of them were met online. I have seen what a STOCK Viper can do, and I wasn't impressed in terms of track capability, it's a fast roadd car and if you like the styling and the BIG V10 theres no reason not to like one, but it's not a very track capable car straight off the showroom. They have the power and torque, so theres no reason a good suspension setup and nice racier tyres won't make it go fast round a track too.
 
They were, but most of them had some sort of proof as to what they were doing (there are almost NO Vipers around where I actually live, sadly).

The only reason I'm not 100% certain that it's always a suspension setup is that I've read several good reviews of Vipers that were using the stock suspension. To be honest, it's kind of confusing as to the truth. I've heard descriptions of the handling ranging from "gripping the asphalt like an overcaffeinated cat" (single review) to "still feeling a little numb in the corners" (a track test comparison between the SRT-10 and the Ford GT). If you ask me, for there to be this wide a range of opinions and results is really, really odd. :odd: My personal guess is that the truth is somewhere in between the doom and gloom and the glowing reviews.
 
I've read from, sloppy to not good exiting at speed to the odd American review I've read out of interest hats said it's decent. I've seen not good at exiting with speed. I haven't read a SINGLE review of it that says it grips the track really well. I've read positive reviews, but none that say it's a very good track car. All the tv appearances I've seen of it suggest the same, all the magazine review and road tests suggest the same. Like I said, if you like it's shape and engine theres no reason not to like the car, it's still faster than most people will take it. I think it's a capable car, I don't rave over them though beause I'm not a fan, but most reviews compare them to Ferrari's and the Ford GT and similar cars. Lets face it, an SRT-10 gets owned round corners by the 360CS and Ford GT, but they're brilliant. 5 years ago I'd guess the SRT-10 wouldn't recieve as much criticism in Europe but cars like the 360CS, Ford GT ect have raised the bar recently and I guess thats why you get a different perspective of how good a car handles in different area's. While the 360CS wa extensively featured in road tests and car magizines and on TopGear over here it wasn't so much in the US. Bear in mind, I don't agree with reiews that say it's sloppy when it's meant literally, it's a descriptive exaggeration in most cases over here though.
 
Hmm. Well, here's a piece from the Viper-GT comparison:

The previous-generation Viper had a reputation for punishing slow-reacting and inattentive drivers. It had high limits, but they were never reached or communicated to the cockpit in anything resembling a progressive manner. The SRT-10 has much-improved on-limit handling behavior and feedback. But the chassis still feels a tad numb, at least as compared with the mongoose-quick GT. Without an electronic stability-control system to lean on, Viper pilots are well-advised to restrict oversteer tricks to the track, while keeping the cell-phone holstered.
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This seems like a fair appraisal. Maybe not the best (and yes, the GT beat it in most cases except braking ability...though not by as much as you might expect), but not the garbage some claim it to be. That was from Motor Trend, by the way.

One more, from Car and Driver:

One thing is for sure: The 2003 Viper feels locked down, stable, less likely to flick out the tail. The steering is linear, accurate, and organic. It inspires massive confidence. And the levels of grip are nothing short of awesome. Even pushing the car hard around the artificial curves inside the avenues of cones, the Viper would cling well beyond the expectations most people have of available grip, and when it did start to relinquish its resolute grasp of the line, the transition seemed gradual and easy to read.
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This is pretty much the high end of what I usually encounter on the Viper. This isn't the only review that's claimed this for it, so there has to be something to it, but I'm still certain the truth is really in the midline between this and the bad reviews.
 
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