2007 Grand Prix of Europe

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I speak neither Italian nor Spanish but after watching the YouTube clip of their argument, Alonso seemed to started it...They shaked hands and suddenly Alonso reacted as if he was saying "What? You obviously tried to take me out..." and then Massa was unstoppable...Hilarious though :lol: We need more drivers like these, indeed. Remember some time Michael Schumacher started crying in the pressconfrence? Italian GP 2000:




I miss Hakkinen, I really miss him. We need more drivers like him. "Hakkinen, was the Ferrari better then the Mclaren? Gimme a break! Continue! Go to Ralf!" :lol:
 
Did anyone else laugh at Webber being almost the same height as Alonso on the podium despite finishing third?
 
Touring Mars
Speaking of putting a different spin on things, I was annoyed at ITV for a couple of things before the race... they suggested that, although sympathetic to Hamilton after his crash, Alonso may not be 'too upset' because it means that he could really close the gap on Hamilton.... well, that in itself was not too bad, but they showed a clip of Alonso in his car, apparently rubbing his hands together - although he was rubbing his hands together like people often do, the insinuation was clear and completely misleading, infact it was nothing short than a gratuitous and totally unnecessary slight on Alonso's character. The deliberate editting of that particular shot with those particular comments was grossly unfair in my opinion.
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As far as I saw, Alonso was tapping his fingertips together all the time after Hamilton's crash. One can't be relaxed or happy when your teammate has a mechanical failure and he crashes straight into a barrier, right? Especially when you have your engineers check your wheel again and again.

At least I'd be scared as hell.
 
I guess he was like any other driver - champing at the bit to get back out onto the track. The drivers were already psyched-up and the adrenaline would have been pumping - hence it's not surprising if they appeared to be 'on edge' whilst waiting to go back out on track.

However, the footage of Alonso rubbing his hands was clearly stock footage from the previous day that bore no relation whatsoever to Hamilton's accident or the wait in the garage... it was just an editor thinking "Oooh, a shot of Alonso rubbing his hands together... we'll splice that with a voice overlay of someone insinuating that Alonso might be 'rubbing his hands together in glee' at the prospect of not having to race Hamilton this week..."... a bit of selective editing and hey presto, you make Alonso look like an opportunist revelling in the misfortune of his teammate, when in reality, he did nothing of the sort.
 
Bram Turismo
I speak neither Italian nor Spanish but after watching the YouTube clip of their argument, Alonso seemed to started it...They shaked hands and suddenly Alonso reacted as if he was saying "What? You obviously tried to take me out..." and then Massa was unstoppable...Hilarious though :lol: We need more drivers like these, indeed. Remember some time Michael Schumacher started crying in the pressconfrence? Italian GP 2000:




I miss Hakkinen, I really miss him. We need more drivers like him. "Hakkinen, was the Ferrari better then the Mclaren? Gimme a break! Continue! Go to Ralf!" :lol:
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They were arguing about the scene Alonso made to the camera man, pointing to his car where Massa touched him and doing the "no-no" with his hand.

Inside, Massa asked to Alonso if he thought he touched him on purpose. He said "You win and you do that?" "Vá cagar!" :lol: Something like "go take a dump". :p

He kept repeating the "You win and you do that", and Alonso was being very sarcastic about it. In the end Massa asks sarcastically "So in Barcelona, was that on purpose too?" Then someone asked him to stop arguing.

I loved it! :D
 
Touring Mars
I guess he was like any other driver - champing at the bit to get back out onto the track. The drivers were already psyched-up and the adrenaline would have been pumping - hence it's not surprising if they appeared to be 'on edge' whilst waiting to go back out on track.

However, the footage of Alonso rubbing his hands was clearly stock footage from the previous day that bore no relation whatsoever to Hamilton's accident or the wait in the garage... it was just an editor thinking "Oooh, a shot of Alonso rubbing his hands together... we'll splice that with a voice overlay of someone insinuating that Alonso might be 'rubbing his hands together in glee' at the prospect of not having to race Hamilton this week..."... a bit of selective editing and hey presto, you make Alonso look like an opportunist revelling in the misfortune of his teammate, when in reality, he did nothing of the sort.
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Man,that just sounds sick :sick: how can anyone portray Alonso like that?Alonso should sue the person who did that.He is a nice guy you know...anyone have that footage?
 
mnm_bmx
Man,that just sounds sick :sick: how can anyone portray Alonso like that?Alonso should sue the person who did that.He is a nice guy you know...anyone have that footage?
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You know Fernando personally I see?
 
mipuumal
All you people make me sick. I can't believe you are calling this "the best race in F1 history", entertaining yes but overall a crap race.

Massa again proving that he is useless in the wet (and Fernando proving that he is brilliant).

I made a similar post after Hungary 2006, let's hope I don't have to make one next year aswell.

China 2006 was a much better and even more entertaining wet race (I don't get my thrills from seeing cars going off the track uncontrollably).



I wonder how happy you will be after Lewis looses the championship.
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Your argument seems to lack credibility. You say that you don't like overtaking to be spawned because "one car is working better than another", and yet you say that a dry/wet/dry/wet race is "crap". This is odd. It's no more or less than a statement of fact that these changeable conditions bring out the skills of the best drivers. Why was it that only one driver missed the pit entry at the end of lap 1? If it was a mindless environmental factor, or a blind expression of car capability, surely at least one other would have gone off too?

Yes, luck plays a big part in changeable races, but where sport is concerned, the luckiest players also happen to be the best.

Your posts on the topic confirm one of the ills of F1 supporters: namely that the hardcore find it difficult to accept when the natural order of things is thrown on its head. Would you rather that Ferrari had turned their .4 sec advantage into the race win? What is that if not simple car superiority? Or, to use your words, that "one car is working better than another"?

Your point is at best unresolved.

I thought that one of the best drivers out there was Bernd Maylander. The way he scarpered when he saw the Toro Rosso careering towards the Safety Car was comedy genius.
 
VashTheStampede
It will go down in history for being the first race in which a driver, Markus Winkelhock, started last and then also started first in. :lol:
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No F1 driver has ever started last and vaulted to first in just two laps, or passed 22 cars in such a short period of time. As a side note, in the 1983 Long Beach GP, John Watson and Niki Lauda qualified 22nd and 23rd and finished 1-2 in the end; however, they didn't lead the race until about halfway. So although a casual glance at future record books might just show an "R" with "engine failure" noted next to Marcus Winkelhock's name for this race, the "3-4 laps led" are from one of the most unusual of circumstances in F1 racing history! Spyker's sponsors must have been enjoying every minute of it, as they usually only get TV close-ups when it's retiring from the race or being lapped.

Overall, this wasn't a great race, but it wasn't lacking excitement, passing, or interest either. Take the Spanish GP this year; no passing but lots of interesting events occurring all race long! Hardly the best race ever, but if you've only been following the sport for a year or two, it was a classic of sorts in some respects.

Anyhow, Alonso deserved it. I can't blame him for making a pass as time may have been running out before the laps did. Massa did shut the door on him in the those esses. Hamilton just got darn lucky in a way; I suppose if you are in a dangerous place (as evidenced by the red flag), you can receive assistance as long as you don't leave the car or try to move it yourself.
 
About the Alonso Massa incident. Well, a Brazilian and a Spanish, arguing in Italian. It's not easy... but a video with Portuguese (BR) subtitles helped:


In short, their positions:
Massa complaining "you win and do something like that..." (EDIT talking about the no-no to the camera)
Alonso doesn't believe it wasn't on purpose: "you don't do that..." (EDIT touch him during the overtake)

Massa brings up the Barcelona memory... saying it was as much "on purpose" as he's move back then.

Personally I think it's a normal race incident. Massa had no intention of deliberately touching, just tried to squeeze Alonso back (not push out) like he did a few moments earlier in the first corner (same lap I think). Alonso didn't back down, and good for him.

It's racing... good, fair and close racing.
 
Alonso didn't do anything wrong when he overtook Massa, and that's the end of it. Massa has been getting a bit blinded by his own fame, since he won his first GP.
 
zoxxy
Alonso didn't do anything wrong when he overtook Massa, and that's the end of it. Massa has been getting a bit blinded by his own fame, since he won his first GP.
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Massa wasn't complaining about Alonso's overtaking. They argued about Alonso's no-no at the camera.
 
FatAssBR, I dont think they argued about that, they were arguing about the bumping, not about the pointing and no-no sign, I thought Felipe didnt see that?
 
sejtur
FatAssBR, I dont think they argued about that, they were arguing about the bumping, not about the pointing and no-no sign, I thought Felipe didnt see that?
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"You win and do that" refers to something after the race finish.

Either he saw it live, on Tv, replay or someone told him, but yes they were arguing about that. The whole itilian dialogue doesn't leave room for another interpretation.
 
sejtur
FatAssBR, I dont think they argued about that, they were arguing about the bumping, not about the pointing and no-no sign, I thought Felipe didnt see that?
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In the video you can see there's a TV in the room where they're arguing.

Also, the first thing Massa says to Alonso is "Do you think I did that on purpose?".
 
Guys.... They do hug each other at first and Alonso seems to whisper something before they started to argue out loud. Someone had to say something we couldn't hear first.
 
Eh, Massa should've given more room when he had clearly lost the place. Don't think the bump was intentional, just accidental caused by Massa chasing a lost cause. I'll admit, Alonso's no no was probably a little unnecessary.
 
Damage to the company car surely comes out of Alonso's paycheck.
 
Kylehnat
Damage to the company car surely comes out of Alonso's paycheck.
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Win the race, and the team gladly covers all damages. Make sure you initial the paperwork during the walk-around, or you lose the deposit.
 
Kylehnat
Damage to the company car surely comes out of Alonso's paycheck.
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... in which case, Hamilton must be hunting bank loans right now :lol:
Being McLaren, I wouldn't be half surprised if they docked the drivers for damaging the cars..

About the safety car ducking out of the way... I agree that he accelerated hard at just the right time, but did anyone see the F1 car climbing out of the gravel in front of him? I'm not sure he actually saw the flying car coming up behind him, it looked like he had been waiting for the F1 car in front to make it back on the track (he was certainly waiting for something), and once that F1 car was out of the way, he accelerated.

So either he saw the accident coming, or it was just blind luck.
 
Acorrding to the Mirror. Alonso went up to Massa and said 'You did that on purpose.' Then Massa cambe back with 'learn to ******* drive. **** you.' or something along those lines.

That probably was the mirror trying to make a big thing out of something very little.
 
I missed the whole race weekend:grumpy: does anyone in the uk know where and when the highlights are showing?
 
I think the decision to put Hamilton on the slicks early was more for the team than for Hamilton. He was in last place and I think the team thought he wasn't going to be in the points, so he could go out and let the team know when to put Alonso on the slicks. Turns out that he may have gotten 8th if he had stayed on the intermediates a little longer, but then would Alonso gone to slicks a the the right time and gotten first?

It was an entertaining race, but I don't like races with that many people retiring. So I wouldn't call it a great race. It would have been better with Kimi trying to battle back to the front.

Nice to see Red Bull get some points, I like to root for the underdogs. Seeing Winkelhock at the front was awesome. I hope he gets more experience and can be competitive.
 
Slick Rick
I missed the whole race weekend:grumpy: does anyone in the uk know where and when the highlights are showing?
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Unless they re-run the race or highlights on ITV3 later in the week, you're out of luck as the highlights on ITV1 are shown at like 23:45 the same day as a the race.
 
Alfaholic
Being McLaren, I wouldn't be half surprised if they docked the drivers for damaging the cars..
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No, that would be Prost charging Jean Alesi $10,000 for throwing his steering wheel into the woods. Then again, we always knew that the French were cheap.

Alfaholic
About the safety car ducking out of the way... I agree that he accelerated hard at just the right time.
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A bit dicey either way. The AMG Merc is just as tail-happy as the racecars themselves. That could have been bad times if he also aquaplaned on the river. A crane hoisting the safety car out of the gravel would have made for a hilarious picture, though.
 
So did anyone figure out why they let Hamilton pass all the cars?
 
ROAD_DOGG33J
So did anyone figure out why they let Hamilton pass all the cars?
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Hamilton had been lapped during his excursion into the gravel at turn one. Lapped cars are allowed to un-lap themselves on safety car laps, so Hamilton was un-lapping himself so he could keep challenging for position once they began racing again.
 
I was really mad when FIA made Hamilton slow down to let Massa by, when the Ferrari wasn't even in his mirrors!

If at least there was a drive through in Nurburgring, Hamilton could grab a burger when he almost stoped to let him by... :)
 
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