2007 Grand Prix of Europe

  • Thread starter Thread starter Pupik
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I was really mad when FIA made Hamilton slow down to let Massa by, when the Ferrari wasn't even in his mirrors!

If at least there was a drive through in Nurburgring, Hamilton could grab a burger when he almost stoped to let him by... :)

I think it was Hamilton's decision to slow down that much. He probably didn't want to get accused of helping Alonso.
 
Had nothing to do with the FIA, he just made the decision to get out of the way after the first blue flags instead of later, probably didn't want to get involved in the battle between Massa and Fernando. Shame though, if it weren't for that I'd say he'd have nicked 8th

Tell ya what though, when he came out of that turn and had slowed down my first thought was "*****ck, his cars broken down" because of how slow he was going lol.
 
He saw the first blue flag about 3 mins (about 2 laps) before actually did let him by. And you could see Ron Dennis holding the FIA radio button for a loooooong time before he did slow down.

In the end he was not harmed but it could have cost him a point or two. And in the end of the season... who knows. He may need it.

EDIT: Tiago Monteiro, ex-F1 driver was the guest commentator for Portuguese Tv and pointed that out... He actually said he was used to get that (being always in the last positions) but this one (blue flag) had come very soon.
 
Tell ya what though, when he came out of that turn and had slowed down my first thought was "*****ck, his cars broken down" because of how slow he was going lol.

That's when I think Ron told him to do so. He couldn’t even know who was behind him... he was so far.

But maybe it's for the better. If he didn't he could be accused of aiding Alonso.
 
I didn't see the first stint of the race but...How the hell did Hamilton got out of the graveltrap? He spun off the tracka nd clearly he was stcuk, then Sutil spun off and parked just in front of him...Did he used a reserve car or something?
 
A crane came along, picked him up, and put him back down on tarmac. One of the funniest things I've seen in F1 for ages, though if the safety car had also ended up in the gravel, that would have been even funnier :lol:
 
Your argument seems to lack credibility. You say that you don't like overtaking to be spawned because "one car is working better than another", and yet you say that a dry/wet/dry/wet race is "crap". This is odd.

I don't see what your point is here.

It's no more or less than a statement of fact that these changeable conditions bring out the skills of the best drivers. Why was it that only one driver missed the pit entry at the end of lap 1? If it was a mindless environmental factor, or a blind expression of car capability, surely at least one other would have gone off too?

Are you saying that I'm defending Kimi's mistake in some way? He was running third right behind Alonso when his hydraulics started crapping out and eventually forced him to retire.

I still don't see a point in this.

Yes, luck plays a big part in changeable races, but where sport is concerned, the luckiest players also happen to be the best.

Yes, Fernando was clearly the best on sunday. Would you say that Olivier Panis/Jenson Button were the best aswell?

Your posts on the topic confirm one of the ills of F1 supporters: namely that the hardcore find it difficult to accept when the natural order of things is thrown on its head. Would you rather that Ferrari had turned their .4 sec advantage into the race win? What is that if not simple car superiority? Or, to use your words, that "one car is working better than another"?

Your point is at best unresolved.

This race was pretty crucial for the championship, and when it comes down to the championship I would want the best car/driver combo to win, whether it be Alonso/Hamilton/Massa/Kimi. If every race of the season turned out like this and Ralf Schumacher won the championship because of some bizarre luck, would you still enjoy it?

I thought that one of the best drivers out there was Bernd Maylander. The way he scarpered when he saw the Toro Rosso careering towards the Safety Car was comedy genius.

Yes, he showed good reflexes there.
 
I found a translation, don't know if it's correct.


Alonso: "You broke my sidepod there..., go and have a look at it!"
Massa: "Go **** yourself! You've won and you say something like this, *******, you win and say something like this."
Alonso: "I fought with Heidfeld, i fought with everyone, but you can't do that."
Massa: (Touching Alonso) "Try to learn something"
Alonso: "You try to learn something"
Massa: "Try to learn something!"
Alonso: "Try to learn something, i fought with all the world today, and with 3 laps to go, we touch!"
Massa: (sitting on his chair) "Good job!"
Alonso: "Good job!"
Massa: (Standing up, sarcastic tone) "I did that on purpose, like i did that on porpuse in Barcelona!"
Alonso: "Ok, ok..."
Massa: (Touching Alonso) "Try to learn something"
Massa: (Looking to someone who invite him to relax) "That's him!"
Fia official: "Quiet"
 
I found a translation, don't know if it's correct.


Alonso: "You broke my sidepod there..., go and have a look at it!"
Massa: "Go **** yourself! You've won and you say something like this, *******, you win and say something like this."
Alonso: "I fought with Heidfeld, i fought with everyone, but you can't do that."
Massa: (Touching Alonso) "Try to learn something"
Alonso: "You try to learn something"
Massa: "Try to learn something!"
Alonso: "Try to learn something, i fought with all the world today, and with 3 laps to go, we touch!"
Massa: (sitting on his chair) "Good job!"
Alonso: "Good job!"
Massa: (Standing up, sarcastic tone) "I did that on purpose, like i did that on porpuse in Barcelona!"
Alonso: "Ok, ok..."
Massa: (Touching Alonso) "Try to learn something"
Massa: (Looking to someone who invite him to relax) "That's him!"
Fia official: "Quiet"
Hmm, that's quite different from the translation the Brazilian tv showed (the video is in this page or in the previous one). I'll have to watch it at home again with audio to see if I can understand what they're saying.

Ozzy could help us. :p
 
man alonso's getting too arrogant, i mean does he expect everyone to let him by without a fight?

He might be arrogant, but Massa has been the one loosing his nerves there, and acting like a child. In my honest opinion, Alonso showed how Massa is nowhere near his level, and made him look like a moron.
 
yeah massa's a mystery to me, sometimes i think he's a good driver but other times not, he shines when he's in the lead and nothing unexpecting happens (like rain), but he's not good at catching up the leaders if he's further back...
 
This race was pretty crucial for the championship, and when it comes down to the championship I would want the best car/driver combo to win, whether it be Alonso/Hamilton/Massa/Kimi. If every race of the season turned out like this and Ralf Schumacher won the championship because of some bizarre luck, would you still enjoy it?
No, and excellent points! 👍





He [Alonso] might be arrogant, but Massa has been the one loosing his nerves there, and acting like a child. In my honest opinion, Alonso showed how Massa is nowhere near his level, and made him look like a moron.
I find them both to be quite childish, but I suppose you are right and that Masa is not quite at the same level (of childishness) as Alonso.

As for racing talent, I think when Masa passed Alonso at the start and continued to outpace him until the second set of rain came at the end shows he is very much at Alonso's level and that Ferrari still have a lot of work to do to get their cars to perform at their best in the wet.

I'm not a fan of either driver as far as their personality goes, but I'm glad I'm not so biased one way or the other to not be able to recognize they are both extremely talented drivers. Hopefully someday they both can grow up and behave like men. Heck, I've seen more maturity from kids at Go-Cart races.
 
So did anyone figure out why they let Hamilton pass all the cars?

I think it was a matter of timing and scoring; as soon as the red flag was displayed, that lap is null and void, and any changes in positions do not count. Since the other cars had gone around to complete the lap, perhaps the timing mechanism on Hamilton's car needed to "hit the timing beams" one more time to accurately put him one lap down, and not two laps down. By letting him get ahead of the field (and not in NASCAR "Lucky Dog" style), he was then on the proper lap according to the timing/lap count system.

At least that's how it appeared to me. If this is incorrect, just print out my post and crumple it into a ball, and throw it in the nearest waste paper receptacle. Thank you for not littering.
 
I find them both to be quite childish, but I suppose you are right and that Masa is not quite at the same level (of childishness) as Alonso.

As for racing talent, I think when Masa passed Alonso at the start and continued to outpace him until the second set of rain came at the end shows he is very much at Alonso's level and that Ferrari still have a lot of work to do to get their cars to perform at their best in the wet.

I'm not a fan of either driver as far as their personality goes, but I'm glad I'm not so biased one way or the other to not be able to recognize they are both extremely talented drivers. Hopefully someday they both can grow up and behave like men. Heck, I've seen more maturity from kids at Go-Cart races.

I agree. The only thing is that I would expect a little more maturity from the defending world champion.
 
when it comes down to the championship I would want the best car/driver combo to win, whether it be Alonso/Hamilton/Massa/Kimi. If every race of the season turned out like this and Ralf Schumacher won the championship because of some bizarre luck, would you still enjoy it?
The driver/car who wins the championship is, by definition, the best. If he weren't, how did he accrue the most points? It is impossible to win the championship based on luck alone, because it is so long. The best drivers often appear "lucky", but it is because they will find luck, as opposed to luck finding them.
I agree. The only thing is that I would expect a little more maturity from the defending world champion.
Two-time defending world champion. And he's only 26 years old. Ask my sister: all guys under 30 are immature by nature.
man alonso's getting too arrogant, i mean does he expect everyone to let him by without a fight?
No, but he expects that others will not drive him off the road. Alonso makes some aggressive moves, but rarely are they ill-advised. Just because a driver isn't expecting him to make a move doesn't allow them to stubbornly turn into him (red cars seem to do it more than most). Nobody owns any part of the racetrack.

Side note: why has Massa turned into Mr. Grumpy all of the sudden? He used to be so cheerful all the time.
 
I think Massa is being a bit arrogant this season. I think he's trying to show to Ferrari that he is the number one driver, not Kimi. I still cheer for him because he's Brazilian and because I like his driving style, most of the time, but I'm not liking his attitude outside the track so much this year.
 
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