2008 Australian Grand Prix

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(2) Who do you think will be the better of the Japanese makes in Formula One this season: Honda or Toyota? Will either or both even place in the Top 3 for the Manufacturer's crown? Which has more to lose? Do you think Toyota will sack its F1 program should they continue to not post a win or even come close?
While Toyota may withdraw at the end of the 2009 season as threatened, I don't think Honda will be going anywhere any time soon now that they have Ross Brawn. And if they can repeat this weekend's performance - minus the whole disqualification thing - they're certainly going to get a respectable place in the standings. Certainly not third, but they'll be on a level with their 2006 pace.
 
(2) Who do you think will be the better of the Japanese makes in Formula One this season: Honda or Toyota? Will either or both even place in the Top 3 for the Manufacturer's crown? Which has more to lose? Do you think Toyota will sack its F1 program should they continue to not post a win or even come close?

I think Toyota will be the better make this year because their engine is in the Williams. Even though Honda might be doing better this year, I don't think they and Super Aguri will be as good as Toyota and Williams. Take Williams and Super Aguri out of the picture and I think it will be Honda slightly better than Toyota.
 
Did Kovalainen accidentally press the Pitlane button?



He literally punched it, celebrating the race one lap too soon! :D


Oh, the irony.. a failed attempt at mocking Alonso's fist-pumping antics. (It's funnier to me if I look at it that way, no matter how the mistake was made). But yes, as was already stated, hit the limiter.
 
Speed showed Ron Dennis after Kovalainen made the pass, I wonder how he looked like after that.
 
I was present at the race on Sunday, being my first visit to a Grand Prix I must say it was an amazing experience. They look so much bloody faster in real life then at home in the living room!

The event in itself was a bit dissapointing though, being a Ferrari fan it was extremely depressing to see both cars retire, the waning note of Raikkonen's engine before his demise was especially depressing. Lewis was absolutely unchallenged, as many of us predicted. There's no doubt that this will be Lewis' Championship year, if this is the reliability that Ferrari can expect for the rest of the year then they are in big trouble.
 
Who wouldn’t be? I mean seriously…



You wouldn’t hit that?

No sorry, I can't look past his sucky car tastes.

John's Debate! - Australian F1 Venues and Honda vs. Toyota

(1) Bathurst would be a dream track to see F1 challenge in Australia. Trouble is (and the reason why I think this will NEVER happen), Bathurst is very confined and too dangerous (at least to me) to race at. If you were in charge of a committee to bring Formula One racing to any other venue besides Albert Park, where else would be great venues to showcase Formula One in Australia? Or is Albert Park the best true Australian offering for the F1 circus?


Bathurst? No way that would ever happen, nor do I want it. but I thought the choice was obvious, the true home of F1 in Australia is Adelaide.....
 
The problem with tracks like Eastern Creek and Phillip Island is that they're too far away from anywhere. Phillip Island is a good 2 hour drive from Melbourne Airport and on a busy GP weekend I wouldn't even want to think. I haven't been to Eastern Creek in years but if I recall that's also a good couple of hours from Sydney airport.

Unless a F1 grade purpose built track is made close to either city, I can't see it staying at Albert Park for too much longer. It's a decent track for something that was made from nothing, but really isn't a suitable location now financially.

To me the only obvious solution is a full on street circuit. Adelaide street circuit is the prime location, with previous experience in F1, and still currently holding top level racing. It's also not Monaco like enough to say it's just another Monaco, the last thing we want is another circuit that no one can overtake on.

Surfers Paradise is the above, It's too narrow, it'd just be another Monaco and no one would overtake except on the first corner where half the field would be wiped out and it would be hella boring.

I think creating another street circuit is an option. Either in Melbourne, Sydney or Perth. Melbourne because it's hosted the GP so well over all the years, and is the sporting capital of Australia. Sydney because it's a huge place, which probably deserves it, and a race that went over the harbor bridge would be insane. Perth is probably a wildcard, but it could work well, being an extra 3 hours closer to Europe may fit in with time slots better.
 
Wow...... I'm not bothered to read the entire thread and I'm just gonna sum up on my thoughts of the weekend.

Qualifying:
Didn't get to watch the qualifying live, but managed to watch the re-run of the qualifying later that day. It was wonderful to see the F1 cars run again on TV, especially around Albert Park. :D Disappointing to see Piquet Jr. only manage to qualify 21st, I mean.... 🤬? As for Kimi and his car problem, I could only imagine how bad must he feel for a world champion not making in into the top 10. BMW however did surprise everyone with their qualifying pace and Kubica almost got 1st when he ran wide on the 12th turn and lost a chunk of time. Still, only a few tenths of a second of Hamilton's time.... 👍

Race:
The first race of the season. As always, the first corner would have an accident. Fisi didn't even make 1 lap and he already retired. :ouch: The sad part was, none of the Force India made it...... As the race progressed, many cars did retire from the race, but the retirement at the end was very unfortunate. After Massa retired a few laps after hitting Couldthard, I thought Ferrari had a bad day. It got worse when Kimi retired with just 5 laps to go. But the saddest part was when Bourdais retired with 3 laps to go! :eek: Must be the worst weekend for Ferrari. None of the Ferrari powered cars finished the race. Alonso did a good job securing 4th with a car that is "just" keeping up with the top team, and keeping Heikki behind him for the last few laps must be something...... Its a shame that Heikki didn't manage to stick to 4th after overtaking Alonso, but I guess it happens to the best of them...... NOT!!!! 👎
 
I think creating another street circuit is an option. Either in Melbourne, Sydney or Perth. Melbourne because it's hosted the GP so well over all the years, and is the sporting capital of Australia.
Somehow, I see Formula One cars and tram tracks mixing about as well as Fernando Alonso and Lewis Hamilton. Or electricity and water.
 
Somehow, I see Formula One cars and tram tracks mixing about as well as Fernando Alonso and Lewis Hamilton. Or electricity and water.

If they ran perpendictular to the track they'd be fine. It's not like they're raised above the surface of the road, just a tiny half inch gap.
 
That was def. not a smart move by Ferrari

^ That statement could be applied to almost anything Ferrari did during the race.

He's forgotten how to drive.

That was what I felt - as if I'm watching my own lame attempts at gaming. Sliding, spinning, oversteering, and some very aggressive moves I'd expect from a GT4 gamer, not a world champion.

I only saw one mistake by Kimi. He did a great job making up 7 positions at the start and after a great bit of driving he actually found himself in 3rd place. He should have pitted when the pits were opened with the safety car out, but that may have been the teams fault, and not his. Then, the only mistake I saw was trying that pass with cold tires.

I counted four major ones, and many small mistakes that we really shouldn't see from such a fellow. A stupid move on Glock, the slideoff on Kovalainen, etc:

If one driver showed some very bad driving at Australia, then it's Raikkonen. Even ignoring his Saturday blockage on Kubica, which he wasn't punished for (while Glock got two!), his overtaking and driving were horrendous. Not quite the "machine" he was considered in testing...

He hopeless against Barrichello (who put up a fantastic drive, especially early on) until a mistake by the latter, about 19 laps too late - but once he overtook, he nearly forced Barrichello off the road. People bitch and complain about the Alonso/Hamilton battle at Spa's La Source, but this is when it gets dirty. While Hamilton could escape to the runoffs (and Alonso knew that), Barrichello had nowhere to go, and had to stop completely as Raikkonen, from his inside line, just went straight to the outside, cutting him off.

And his move on Kovalainen was as insane as Massa's, and essentially the same type of move. He braked, just like Massa, an age and a half too late for the corner, hoping to cut Kovalainen's line and slow him down while recovering his own pace - it was Kovalainen's luck that he braked extra hard in order to avoid Kimi, else the two would've been out of the race. Running off the track was a miscalculation on his side - he carried more speed than he wanted.

The move behind Timo was just bad driving. Instead of waiting another corner for a better opportunity (he was catching up fast anyway), he braked hard enough to start locking the rears, fishtailing, and sending one to the grass. Doing that was an unnecessary maneuver.

Losing two places to Alonso and Kovalainen on the same corner... Well, that could be forgiven, considering the crash that happened right in front of him.

And people rave about how good he overtook 7 cars at the start - but to be honest, when so many ahead of you crash, there's nothing that impressive about gaining seven in a fast car. I was far more impressed by Sato's ten places gained, in what is unarguably the slowest car in the field.
At the same time, most of his overtaking wasn't that good to begin with. He pushed some drivers physically, making contact with their cars as he went. He touched a Red Bull on from the outside, pushed a Toyota, like a madman.

Not counting dropping a tyre onto the grass chasing Kovalainen and spinning it then?

That was Glock. The mistake with Kovalainen was when forgot the brakes on cold tyres. ;)

Roo
Both. On one hand, he was still on track at the end of a race of high attrition; on the other, he very nearly wasn't when he hit Kubica.

An entertaining race, if not a classic one - a battle for the lead would've been nice. Brilliant to see Rosberg on the podium. Bourdais showed that a cool head travels well across the Atlantic - unlucky not to score more points than he did. A definate 👍 to no driver aids.

I'm split on Nakajima the same way. He also drove quite steadily, defending well against overtakers...

But Bourdais... Perfectly cool, not a single mistake. You can see the no-TC practice leaking from his car. He raced as if he was in last year's F1. :eek:

See why I said this? That was the best driving from Alonso I've seen in years, edging into every damn turn and going wide like... 20 times? Without losing a bit of control. :D

Yes, absolutely great driving from him. Stable, calculated - so unlike the Alonso we have seen at Canada or Barcelona last year. His double-move on Kovalainen and Raikkonen was awesome...

STR's holding up mclarens and Honda's holding up Ferraris certainly seems like closer racing in general.

Bourdais even pulled away from the Alonso/Kovalainen duo! :eek:

Kovalainen had a good race, the safety car didn't help him but didn't seem too far behind his teamate for pace, hopefully a few races down the line he will be right up there with Hamilton the whole race he certainly seems to have the ability.

Don't forget that it wasn't Hamilton who set the fastest lap of the race - Heikki took that honour.

Timo Glock....For Shame on track marshals to have that section

Yes, they said they'll discuss that in the GPDA meeting - such a thing to happen on an F1 track is inexcusable. Problem isn't the actual grass - problem were those two bumps right ahead of it. Kubica was very lucky he didn't repeat his 2007 accident on Saturday - he ran just like Glock, only had the luck of pulling in just a meter earlier back onto the track, and missed the two "ramps" that launched Glock into that frenzy of a spin.

Sadly $50 million more isn't enough to help Force India any time soon.

Don't forget Fisichella was on a fast lap, beating his previous split-times by more than half a second, when Sutil's crash forced him to slow down. There's a penalty for scoring a fastest lap under a yellow flag...

If they ran perpendictular to the track they'd be fine. It's not like they're raised above the surface of the road, just a tiny half inch gap.

If we can afford the bumps and niggles of a street-circuit, tram-lines shouldn't be a problem. I like the idea, though.
 
Someone who has gone largely unmentioned is Nelson Piquet Jr. He was awful. Will he be like Kovalainen at the start of last year?
 
Someone who has gone largely unmentioned is Nelson Piquet Jr. He was awful. Will he be like Kovalainen at the start of last year?

While he wasn't impressive in qualifying either, his race can be excused - his diffusor was damaged by a rear-ending in the first-lap clashes, despite a rather good start - I think he was 13th at some point in the beginning - and from that point onward, he drove a damaged car. Diffusors produce a large percentage of an F1 car's downforce, and while relatively protected, damage there means an end to the race.

His car then failed completely after a long, long while.
 
I taped the race Sunday and I started watching it yesterday got through the first six laps then I left to go out. before I got to starting watching it again I inadvertently found out the results. Needlss to say I just lost all interest in the race so I deleted it. Glad to hear Hamilton won though.
 
See why I said this? That was the best driving from Alonso I've seen in years, edging into every damn turn and going wide like... 20 times? Without losing a bit of control. :D

I'm in TOTAL AGREEMENT! He keeps it up he'll be taking Massa's seat.
 
I'm split on Nakajima the same way. He also drove quite steadily, defending well against overtakers...

I forgot to mention: his overtake on Piquet was pretty stellar, into Turn 9. For me, that just swings it towards a good drive for a newbie.
 
While he wasn't impressive in qualifying either, his race can be excused - his diffusor was damaged by a rear-ending in the first-lap clashes, despite a rather good start - I think he was 13th at some point in the beginning - and from that point onward, he drove a damaged car. Diffusors produce a large percentage of an F1 car's downforce, and while relatively protected, damage there means an end to the race.

His car then failed completely after a long, long while.

His race can be excused, agreed. 21st in a Renault in qualifying though? Briatore won't be a happy bunny.
 
His race can be excused, agreed. 21st in a Renault in qualifying though? Briatore won't be a happy bunny.

I agree Briatore gave out to Kovalinen last year in Australia for finishing something like 11th after starting 9th I think, Piquets race was far worse, although I think Kovalinen did spin 3 times on his debut.
 
His race can be excused, agreed. 21st in a Renault in qualifying though? Briatore won't be a happy bunny.
Briatore's never happy. He's just a cranky old man with old ideas on how to run a Formula One team (like supporting one driver and having the other there to make up the numbers). And he plays at favourites, which is never a good thing.
 
If we can afford the bumps and niggles of a street-circuit, tram-lines shouldn't be a problem. I like the idea, though.

Wouldn't want to go over them if it rained, those tram lines seem to turn into strips of ice.
 
Wouldn't want to go over them if it rained, those tram lines seem to turn into strips of ice.

Bah. For a real challenge they should try driving on them in the rain, sharing the road with trams on them.
 
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