2008 Best Car Series: (Round 2) Nissan GT-R vs Holden Commodore

[Jay]

That'd be like me getting excited over an LS3 C6 beating a Skyline sedan.
What say you to that?

They are in the same class, that class was group A, they were in the same class because they are built to be matched to together, just look how fast the Larry Perkins VL was. The Nissans ended up winning so many races they added ballast and reduced power to even them up.

We are not talking about stock for stock cars here.


Saying this, I really enjoyed watching Brocks VP on it's qualifing lap, it's sounds wonderful, better than current V8 supercars sound. Personally I love all the Group A cars, I like the Group A Commodores much more than the V8 Supercars that followed.
But really, this thread is about the current R35 vs VE.

 

[nd 4 holden spd]

Yet Group A was mismatched, if they were even then don't get too excited, it was all the driver and car setup. V8 Supercars today need to be seen in real life to appreciate their sound. TV makes them sound less muscular and more Italian.

 

[Leonidae]

^is that a bad thing? Italians make the best sounding engines ever..

 

[nd 4 holden spd]

^is that a bad thing? Italians make the best sounding engines ever..

I for one still prefer the sound of a muscle car, and even like some 4cyl sounds better than a Ferrari V8 a la F430.

 

[Leonidae]

F430 is lame.. 355/F40/Testarossa were last good sounding Ferraris.. but the ultimate sound is still Pagani Zonda F.

 

[nd 4 holden spd]

F430 is lame.. 355/F40/Testarossa were last good sounding Ferraris.. but the ultimate sound is still Pagani Zonda F.

Yeah, they're nice, but I still prefer the muscle car symphony.

 

[Holdenhsvgtsr]

but the ultimate sound is still Pagani Zonda F.

That doesn't have an italian engine though

 

[Muzaffar]

..... if you just have faith, that's what my mom tells me. I thought it was going to be impossible to buy the GT-R (dream car) because I thought it was too expensive but then my mom encouraged me that anything is possible, but if you replaced the car you wanted so badly with the cheaper car, you have given up on the car you wanted, and that's sad.

Its a forum Gator, relax. Don't get too stressed about it. Anyways, I can't agree with that statement at all. Sure its true that if you put your mind to it you could achieve your dream, but you ain't going nowhere if you don't work for it. Don't set your ambitions too high if youc can't reach them. As I always learn in economics, if can't have afford the best things in life, you have to settle for second best.

And again, many would disagree with you (even some who like the car would maintain it's a bit soulless).

Agreed. As much as I loved that GT-R it just lacks that certain something that most car nowadays are missing......

It's a nice sentiment to have, it's also the typical naïveity of youth. Whilst I don't want to be the one to rain on your parade, life isn't that simple. Obviously if you don't try you don't achieve, but many can spend their lives trying and still not achieve. By all means set that goal to own a GT-R one day but don't be surprised when life throws you a curve ball either...

Agreed as well. Don't expect too much from life, just take it as it is.... 👍

F430 is lame.. 355/F40/Testarossa were last good sounding Ferraris.. but the ultimate sound is still Pagani Zonda F.

That doesn't have an italian engine though

Lol, the Pagani sounds more like muscle than Italian. The best sounding Italian car must be that F40..... 👍

 

[Leonidae]

Zonda F? sounds like uscle? when did you wash your ears last time?



and while the engine isn't italian, the exhaust is.. and exhaust determines the engine note, as does intake.

 

[Philly]

Zonda F? sounds like uscle? when did you wash your ears last time?

Aren't those AMG V8s "muscle" engines? They certainly aren't 1970s American muscle, but I think those are as close as you can get these days.

 

[Leonidae]

ah, but Zonda F has proper supercar engine, it's a V12, not a lowly 8-potter..

 

[gator of kana]

ah, but Zonda F has proper supercar engine, it's a V12, not a lowly 8-potter..

Didn't the Zonda have a Mercedes-Benz engine?

 

[Tornado]

ah, but Zonda F has proper supercar engine, it's a V12, not a lowly 8-potter..

A huge, American-like V12 engine.

 

[Jim Prower]

Damn fan boi's, R35=fail!

Goes both ways with this one...and I think the R35 is genuinely the better car in this case. It pushes the limits more, is really something different, not more of the same...like the Commodore.

I think, though, that there's fewer R35 fanboys in this case, and if the GT-R gets paired with the R8...well, I think the Anti-GT-R crowd should have their field-day, as the car is a viable alternative...and less controversial. and miles more expensive...

 

[McLaren]

Zonda F? sounds like uscle? when did you wash your ears last time?



and while the engine isn't italian, the exhaust is.. and exhaust determines the engine note, as does intake.

Maybe when you're outside the car. Just listening to your video & Tiff's review of the CLK GTR, both the Zonda's & CLK GTR's engine note from the interior, is extremely similar, thanks to the 7.3L V12 being built off the 6.9L of the CLK GTR. The only thing the Zonda F does is make it seem louder. From the interiors of both cars, the engine notes both contain AMG's deep, muscular sound.

 

[JCE]

GT-R wins this fairly easily--even though I LOVE the Commodore.

 

[Philly]

ah, but Zonda F has proper supercar engine, it's a V12, not a lowly 8-potter..

Oops. I was thinking of the 6.3 and forgot that they were still running the 7.3

But it's still a "no replacement for displacement" style engine, similar to every AMG engine.

 

[YSSMAN]

I don't see why people don't like the GT-R. You hardly ever get a car that is hand-crafted by professional people, usually you got machines doing all the installments to the car.

That isn't exactly the be-all-end-all way of finding out how good or bad a car is. Anyone with a knowledge of British sports cars can tell you that being "hand built" is usually one of the last things you want them to be. Then again, a bunch of Communists high on wood glue don't exactly make for good workers on the factory lines either...

I don't think you'll find that the machine-built Mazda Miata (fore example) lacks soul by comparison to other hand-built models. Those silly Spyker models come to mind...

I thought it was going to be impossible to buy the GT-R (dream car) because I thought it was too expensive but then my mom encouraged me that anything is possible, but if you replaced the car you wanted so badly with the cheaper car, you have given up on the car you wanted, and that's sad.

That isn't exactly the point of the discussion here. The issue here with pricing is that there are cars that are nearly as good, just as good, or better all within the same price window as the GT-R, and while some people may be dead-set on what they view to be ideal, others may be able to slide a bit. I'd be far more adept at saving over $10,000 and sacrificing a lot of performance against the GT-R by choosing a BMW M3, or getting 98.9% of the performance of the GT-R with the (slightly) cheaper Z06. Or throw all of it out the window and shell out an extra $10,000 in favor of a Porsche 911.

Pricing is sill important, no matter what. When I was out looking to replace my (now dead and gone) Jetta, I had a good idea of what I wanted and what I wanted to spend on it... But as I slowly began to realize what was feasible and what was not, I eventually settled on the Celica I have now. It wasn't even a car that was on my radar before that, but, I've grown to like it quite a bit. I would have loved to have had that Mazda3, or the Civic(s), or worked my way into a Camaro Z/28... But, I had to go elsewhere.

 

[bobzed]

My vote goes to Commodore

 

[Prosthetic]

Yeah, they're nice, but I still prefer the muscle car symphony.

I really don't call rumbling V8's a symphony. Because symphony's are constructed of multiple pitches of different instrument. The V8 just rumbles and rumbles some more. Where are high strung V10's and V12's give both low end grunt and then hits you with the high notes at a million miles an hour.

 

[Muzaffar]

Zonda F? sounds like uscle? when did you wash your ears last time?

German engine = Muscle. Besides, have you tried listening to Ferrari and Lamborghini engines before? Those are what real Italian engines should sound like.......

Maybe when you're outside the car. Just listening to your video & Tiff's review of the CLK GTR, both the Zonda's & CLK GTR's engine note from the interior, is extremely similar, thanks to the 7.3L V12 being built off the 6.9L of the CLK GTR. The only thing the Zonda F does is make it seem louder. From the interiors of both cars, the engine notes both contain AMG's deep, muscular sound.

+1. 👍

 

[Jay]

V8 Supercars today need to be seen in real life to appreciate their sound. TV makes them sound less muscular and more Italian.

Yeah, but you don't think I've seen them? They run right through my city every year

I still think Brocks Group A VP sounds better.

 

[nd 4 holden spd]

Aren't those AMG V8s "muscle" engines? They certainly aren't 1970s American muscle, but I think those are as close as you can get these days.

AMG as close as you can get these days to 1970s US muscle? How about the Chev small block, which is more or less the same since then but with leaps and bounds in technology added?

ah, but Zonda F has proper supercar engine, it's a V12, not a lowly 8-potter..

Lowly? High standards much?

Goes both ways with this one...and I think the R35 is genuinely the better car in this case. It pushes the limits more, is really something different, not more of the same...like the Commodore.

I think, though, that there's fewer R35 fanboys in this case, and if the GT-R gets paired with the R8...well, I think the Anti-GT-R crowd should have their field-day, as the car is a viable alternative...and less controversial. and miles more expensive...

GT-R vs R8, R35 wins for me.

I really don't call rumbling V8's a symphony. Because symphony's are constructed of multiple pitches of different instrument. The V8 just rumbles and rumbles some more. Where are high strung V10's and V12's give both low end grunt and then hits you with the high notes at a million miles an hour.

Allow me to rephrase then, I'd prefer the drum solo of the V8 muscle cars still.

Yeah, but you don't think I've seen them? They run right through my city every year

I still think Brocks Group A VP sounds better.

Probably, not much stands up to the 427 Nations Cup Monaro though, that thing was just They all sound good though.

 

[BayConRong]

who else is Defending the American Australian except the dude with a commodore of his own?

 

[Wolfe]

The issue here with pricing is that there are cars that are nearly as good, just as good, or better all within the same price window as the GT-R...I'd be far more adept at saving over $10,000 and sacrificing a lot of performance against the GT-R by choosing a BMW M3, or getting 98.9% of the performance of the GT-R with the (slightly) cheaper Z06. Or throw all of it out the window and shell out an extra $10,000 in favor of a Porsche 911.

I'm not crazy about the GT-R, the 997 Turbo is a dream car of mine, and it's pretty easy to predict that I'd rather have the M3 than the GT-R, but the Nissan is far and away the fastest and most practical car of the four.

 

[Tornado]

AMG as close as you can get these days to 1970s US muscle? How about the Chev small block, which is more or less the same since then but with leaps and bounds in technology added?

Mercedes has this spectacular ability to make big monster V8s and V12s that are incredibly similar in purpose to various muscle car engines of the past. The M117 (Hammer!) and M119 (500SL) were good examples of this, but so were/are the AMG versions of the M113 (CLK 55) and the M120 V12 (SL73, Zonda). To an extent, the M156 (SL63) is also like this.

 

[Wolfe]

For a while now I've also held the opinion that Mercedes/AMG is Europe's muscle car manufacturer. The concept of building large, torquey, inefficient engines and sticking 'em in otherwise ordinary coupes or sedans smacks of 1960s Detroit.

 

[YSSMAN]

Couldn't agree more... The C63 oozes a feeling similar to that of the old big-block Novas, and quite certainly, the E63 has more in common with the old Malibu SS than it may care to admit as well.

Nothing against AMG, however.

 

[nd 4 holden spd]

Mercedes has this spectacular ability to make big monster V8s and V12s that are incredibly similar in purpose to various muscle car engines of the past. The M117 (Hammer!) and M119 (500SL) were good examples of this, but so were/are the AMG versions of the M113 (CLK 55) and the M120 V12 (SL73, Zonda). To an extent, the M156 (SL63) is also like this.

They all sound like proper German muscle, they have DOHCs, and they're in cars roaring German technology. Maybe next to GM, Ford and even the Hemi still, they are the closest to classic muscle, but the Detroit 3 still are the closest.

I do love AMG quite a bit though, nice cars.

 

[Rotary Junkie]

They all sound like proper German muscle, they have DOHCs, and they're in cars roaring German technology. Maybe next to GM, Ford and even the Hemi still, they are the closest to classic muscle, but the Detroit 3 still are the closest.

I do love AMG quite a bit though, nice cars.

You do realize musclecars used all they had at the time to make power, right?