2008 Best Car Series: (Vote Japan!)

[nd 4 holden spd]

Ah well, I'm lazy. I still stand up for the GT-R. Yes, most people say it lacks the 'soul and passion' but still, I don't see many people say other Japanese cars have this either.

The AE86 Corolla had soul, and so did the NSX, the Supra, the older model GT-Rs, the RX-7 (not my kind of soul though ), the 3000GT (my favourite Japanese car ever apart from maybe the IS-F and M45, perhaps a tie between the 3). Loads of Japanese cars have had soul, but not the new R35, not IMO.

 

[Famine]

Okay so driving is about going fast, making noise, unpredictability in handling, looking good and talking with your friends about how heavy it is.

How about the sound the engine puts out? The GT-R is abysmally quiet and flat.

Having never driven one, I wouldn't know. Nevertheless, I'd quite like a quiet, flat engine note when doing 70mph along a motorway. I can't imagine a 3.8 litre V6 twin turbo would be quiet when giving it beans but, having never driven one as I said earlier, I can't speak for it.

How about "flare" in the handling, the GT-R, by comparison, is all point the wheel and go.

I'm at a loss to explain how having the car go where you point it is a bad thing for a sports car. The MX-5 goes where you point it and that's pretty much the definitive sports car.

Unless you're talking about going sideways - which isn't exactly a desirable trait on the road, but you've made it clear that since the GT-R excels on track you don't want to talk about track driving - in which case you can't possibly be talking about the GT-R...

​

Enough "flare"?

How about liking the look of your car and knowing what you are driving makes you feel happy?

Given that I asked you to list important characteristics of "driving" and how the GT-R's "too much technology" and weight proved "major downfalls" to them, I can't imagine how you're taking a subjective field like aesthetics and trying to say that technology and weight are a hindrance.

What about idle chat with your mates? "How much does your car weigh?"

In the 13 years I've owned a car, I've never once been asked how much any of them weighs except for a short conversation about an axle stand.

Oh yes, the Nissan GT-R is no lighter than an SV6 Commodore. It's not that it negates its weight, but simply that it has it, like Nissan don't care, so why does it deserve all that praise.

I often look at the GT-R and think "You know, that's a car made be people who really just couldn't be bothered."

Technology, makes our lives easier and harder at the same time. More to the point, it makes us domber and lazier.

There's some considerable irony here, given how intelligent your points are and that you're expressing them through the internet. And you still haven't addressed the question for what, exactly, the GT-R has too much weight and technology.


However, I have a solution for you. Instead of babbling about all sorts of facets about which you have no knowledge at all in order to back up a position to which they don't actually apply and doesn't really make any sense under even the smallest scrutiny, just fall back to the simplest position.

"I don't like the GT-R. I just don't."​

You haven't driven it. I haven't driven it. Neither of us have a position of authority from which we can state factual absolutes about the vehicle. You may not see it, but inventing points ("It's too heavy.", "It has too much technology") to support a position without any real evidence is fanboyism, but on the other end of the scale - negative fanboyism. You'd get a crapload more respect for:

"I don't like the GT-R. I just don't."​

than you do for:

"it's got some major downfalls. It's too heavy and has too much technology."​

No-one would really care if you said you didn't like it (except the pro-GT-R fanboys - who would also construct points to support their position without any real evidence - and that's what the GT-R thread eventually descended into, with made up points being thrown from both sides. Pretty much like any XBox360/PS3 debate EVER). Liking it - or not - is up to you.

 

[Muzaffar]

Urgh.

When someone ever mentions a GT-R in a thread there would always be a long debate about it. It doesn't matter if the GT-R has no heart, soul and passion in it (well, who says it can't?) and its horibly designed (again, different opinion) but you get a car which could cost a lot more than your average Japanese sports car and the car is amazing in any possible way in terms of speed, acceleration, handling and ride comfort. Its a supercar which could beat Ferrari and Lambo's for breakfast!!!!

If you love it, then you would love it. If you hate it, then you hate it. Simple as that. But again, the GT-R is winning by a country mile, which is a little unfair to say the least. 👎

 

[nd 4 holden spd]

Taken to PM to save this thread.

 

[Joey D]

Some people fail at the voting process, is it really that difficult to just pick two?

 

[nd 4 holden spd]

Some people fail at the voting process, is it really that difficult to just pick two?

Are people voting more than 2?

Edit: Yes, they are, some are voting more like 5 or more.

 

[///M-Spec]

Urgh.But again, the GT-R is winning by a country mile, which is a little unfair to say the least. 👎

What does 'fair' have to do with anything?

Are you not familiar with how 'voting' and 'majority rule' works?


M

 

[Muzaffar]

What does 'fair' have to do with anything?

Are you not familiar with how 'voting' and 'majority rule' works?


M

I know, is just that the other cars don't have a fighting chance of winning this. But I guess it cant be helped at all......

 

[///M-Spec]

I know

No offense (which means you're about to be offended), but I don't think you do.

This is not platonic Truth. It's a popularity contest. Nothing more, nothing less. Just leave it at that, and you'll feel much better about it.


M

 

[Muzaffar]

No offense (which means you're about to be offended), but I don't think you do.

This is not platonic Truth. It's a popularity contest. Nothing more, nothing less. Just leave it at that, and you'll feel much better about it.


M

Well okay. I mean its just poll and the GT-R is really popular. Yeah, sorry if I sound as if I didn't care at all. I do like the GT-R myself, but I do have a soft spot for the Lancer and Evo.

 

[Tornado]

The NC MX-5 is... well... not an MX-5. It's a Ford Focus with rear wheel drive that they've tried to make look like an NA MX-5.

Wait...what?

 

[Famine]

Wait...what?

It's a fat little sod which shares no components with the NB MX-5 and is built predominantly with Focus parts and engines (well... the 2.0 MZR is from the Mazda 3, but the 1.8 is a rebadged Ford Duratec). It also requires a £400 Eibach suspension upgrade - which was present on the concept car but deleted from the production model - before it handles.

 

[YSSMAN]

Some people fail at the voting process, is it really that difficult to just pick two?

There are a couple people in there, and its going to cut down some of the scores for a lot of those cars (I take the votes on the first cars they select, from the top down) and none of the rest. Not that it will really effect the GT-R that much, but yes, its going to lose some votes from some members.

ALSO:

I like how some of them vote but do not care to comment. That's 3/4s of the fun right there!

Still, its the GT-R's race it seems. If I were to be evil I'd put it in a very tough bracket. We'll see how the pieces fall. Either way, its a #1 seed with votes that high.

 

[Famine]

Yss - Would you like me to adjust the numbers, top down like you suggest?

 

[YSSMAN]

If you're up to it, otherwise, its not too big of a deal. At this point, the S2K and the GT-R are quite literally walking away from everyone else. So, I suppose that kinda negates the need to.

 

[homeforsummer]

Bah, been away for a few days and predictably I see the GT-R running away with it.

Anyway, I voted Mazda 2 and Mazda MX-5. Only two I've driven on that list incidentally too.

 

[Famine]

I'd like to pass on my thanks to:

bergauk; JER_CREST; sLg; Troux​

For their creative interpretations of:

Same rules as always. Vote for two of the cars,

Meaning I had to lock this thread while I edited the poll. Cheers guys. 👍

 

[Joey D]

I wasn't going to call them out as I felt them might be a little insulted by it but hey at least it's fixed now.

 

[Greycap]

Is it just me or do I feel a GT-R fanboy landslide in the voting?

...As predicted, the GT-R is really pulling away from everyone else. Do we have an early favorite for a final four car?

The GT-R is quite literally running away with the poll.

If I were a betting man, I'd bank on the GT-R making (at the very least) to the "Final Four."

Still, its the GT-R's race it seems. If I were to be evil I'd put it in a very tough bracket. We'll see how the pieces fall. Either way, its a #1 seed with votes that high.

At this point, the S2K and the GT-R are quite literally walking away from everyone else.

This is a bit of a survey post. Above I have quotes from every single post YSSMAN has made in this thread, and in every one of them he mentions the GT-R. Sometimes the people voting for it are said to be fanboys, and he very obviously wants to make it clear that he doesn't want it to win. Well, each to their own. Apparently one car shouldn't get significantly more votes than the others in his opinion.

Then he goes and nominates the Corvette for the best American car. Like it isn't going to walk the poll there.

Seriously, somebody tell me why the GT-R supporters are always the ones who are called fanboys and are always on the "wrong side" by default while the Corvette supporters are called car enthusiasts and are always on the "right side" by default. There must be some deeper logic to it that I simply don't get.

I'll take one more example. I was going to test this in the American thread when the voting begins but I can as well do it here. When someone says "the GT-R sucks because it's so heavy" there's a dozen people nodding and agreeing, it's a widely accepted fact. I agree partially, the car is too heavy but it certainly doesn't suck because of it as we've seen. Then when someone says "the Corvette sucks because it can't put the power down" there's a huge uproar, the person is shouted to the corner and the dozen people shove it down the sayer's throat that the Corvette handles like a true sports car should. Again I agree partially, it has trouble putting the power down but it certainly doesn't suck because of it as we've seen.

If there's anyone interested enough in replying to this, all I ask is to put the possible nationality bias to the side for a while and keep it civil. I don't want another flame war, just one good answer why the situation is as it is. If you're going to take the "usual" Corvette vs. GT-R style, please don't press the "Submit Reply" button. 👍

 

[wrcsti]

NO COMPETITION



Sorry for all the pics, there are even more super hot GTR's starting to appear, just don't wanna make this into a GTR pic thread (sorta)

Just threw up in my mouth.

 

[McLaren]

Greycap, you wonder why the supporters are called fanboys? It's because of posts like your's, assuming that YSSMAN does not want the GT-R to win just because he's mentioned it running away in the polls. I see nowhere in his posts that he doesn't want to the GT-R to win, rather that's he's stating the truth.

Honestly, I don't think I've seen one GT-R post (besides the Oldie thread in the GT5P area) where you haven't been there to defend the car. It appears, thanks to you, you're going to turn this into another GT-R thread.

 

[Joey D]

Greycap, you wonder why the supporters are called fanboys? It's because of posts like your's, assuming that YSSMAN does not want the GT-R to win just because he's mentioned it running away in the polls. I see nowhere in his posts that he doesn't want to the GT-R to win, rather that's he's stating the truth.

Honestly, I don't think I've seen one GT-R post (besides the Oldie thread in the GT5P area) where you haven't been there to defend the car. It appears, thanks to you, you're going to turn this into another GT-R thread.

QFT'ed and +1'ed 👍

===

I don't want the GT-R to win because I think there are far better cars from Japan that are more meaningful then some halo vehicle. The S2000, while I didn't vote for it, is a very good example of a sports car that has very good performance and a resonable price.

** Oh an for the record I don't want the Vette to win either, there is more to life then a fast car.

 

[Perfect Balance]

I don't want the GT-R to win because I think there are far better cars from Japan that are more meaningful then some halo vehicle. The S2000, while I didn't vote for it, is a very good example of a sports car that has very good performance and a resonable price.

I think the price of the GT-R is far more reasonable than the S2000 when considering the performance you get out of it.

 

[homeforsummer]

** Oh an for the record I don't want the Vette to win either, there is more to life then a fast car.

Amen 👍

 

[sLg]

I'd like to pass on my thanks to:

bergauk; JER_CREST; sLg; Troux​

For their creative interpretations of:



Meaning I had to lock this thread while I edited the poll. Cheers guys. 👍

Sorry, I didn't read that part.

 

[Tornado]

I think the price of the GT-R is far more reasonable than the S2000 when considering the performance you get out of it.

How do you figure that?
GT-R: Performance slightly better than its nearest competitor for the price (Corvette Z06). Outruns many cars worth much more (911 Turbo, Gallardo).
S2000: Performance slightly better than its nearest competitor for the price (350z Cabrio, BMW Z4 3.0i). Outruns many cars worth much more (Boxter, SLK).
The fact that the GT-R is a huge performance bargain for the price does not negate the fact that the S2000 has been doing the same thing in its performance segment for 9 years now.

 

[Perfect Balance]

How do you figure that?
GT-R: Performance slightly better than its nearest competitor for the price (Corvette Z06). Outruns many cars worth much more (911 Turbo, Gallardo).
S2000: Performance slightly better than its nearest competitor for the price (350z Cabrio, BMW Z4 3.0i). Outruns many cars worth much more (Boxter, SLK).
The fact that the GT-R is a huge performance bargain for the price does not negate the fact that the S2000 has been doing the same thing in its performance segment for 9 years now.

True, but the S2000 is a lightweight 2 seater sports car. You expect it to perform well, it's not so amazing that it's that fast.

 

[Tornado]

True, but the S2000 is a lightweight 2 seater sports car. You expect it to perform well, it's not so amazing that it's that fast.

None of which has to do with the price.

Besides, the GT-R is a GT-R. You expect much the same thing, and it similarly isn't amazing when it accomplishes such.

 

[Perfect Balance]

None of which has to do with the price.

I know, the S2000 is still a great bargain, but it doesn't doesn't have the "wow" factor that the GT-R has. It's a lighweight 2 seater with over 200hp, why wouldn't it be fast?

Besides, the GT-R is a GT-R. You expect much the same thing, and it similarly isn't amazing when it accomplishes such.

I don't. The name means nothing to me, it's just the fact that the car weighs 1700kg and has around 500 hp, but it can completely destroy cars that "should" be faster considering the specs.

It's the combination of performance and engineering that you get for the price, and all along what you have is basically a daily drivable luxury sedan that makes it so awesome for me.


This is really not the right thread, and I can't seem to think at all.

 

[YSSMAN]

Sometimes the people voting for it are said to be fanboys, and he very obviously wants to make it clear that he doesn't want it to win. Well, each to their own. Apparently one car shouldn't get significantly more votes than the others in his opinion.

There isn't a single case anywhere in this thread where I've stated that I do not want it to win. I have yet to say anywhere that I don't want to make it anywhere... What I was stating were truths, and what will likely be ineviateabilities. My personal feeling for the car, despite not being overly positive has nothing to do with it. I respect it for what it is, an amazing piece of mechanical engineering, but it is not my ride of choice.

If anything, it is you who is attempting a fanboy stir-up here.

Then he goes and nominates the Corvette for the best American car. Like it isn't going to walk the poll there.

I'm not sure what the point of that is. Everyone knows that its "my car," of course I was going to nominate it. I considered the Mustang for a fraction of a second, but I said to myself "well, that would be weird if I didn't nominate the Corvette..." and went about my business. To be completely honest, I don't expect the Corvette to do well with this new setup to the game. Whether or not it comes out of the American thread or not, if it gets matched up to good cars early on (and I plan to make it interesting for every match up), it could get screwed easily.

----

It was my intention to not have this be yet another "lets compare the Corvette to the GT-R" thread. If anything, the high number of votes for the GT-R symbolize how popular the car is, and generally speaking, show that it will have a very good chance of doing well in the final competition. I meant absolutely nothing other than to share my surprise with how far the car had jumped out ahead of everyone else. Sorry if that caused a stir.