2008 BMW M3: Now In ALMS for 2008 Season

  • Thread starter Thread starter YSSMAN
  • 247 comments
  • 14,652 views
...And I love the Sagaris, just not as much as my beloved Corvette...

For what it is worth, I'd be happy just to see a few of our models considered as competition against the M3, or better yet having a car or two that can keep-up.
 
Ugh. Another Ugly Bimmer. Although I will admit that it is at least an agressive ugly Bimmer.

I maintain that this is the only true, and very best M3:
bmwe30m3side2tr1.jpg


156500iz6.jpg

That was the m3 in its prime. Beautiful!
 
...And I love the Sagaris, just not as much as my beloved Corvette...

For what it is worth, I'd be happy just to see a few of our models considered as competition against the M3, or better yet having a car or two that can keep-up.

AMEN!!! The Z06 is definitly my favorite home-grown sports car (S7 aside), and therefore it will always rank highly in my book. Yes, it would be nice to see a few yankee M3 rivals, but we will have to work a bit at it. Perfection is pretty much second nature for the German manufacturers, while we focus on bang for the buck. That habit would have to be broken for a true M3 competitor.

With regards to lap times, two cars within five seconds of each other on the 'Ring doesn't really matter. At that point, you consider other points because the time comarison is pretty much useless, unless it is a track car. But if the difference is more like 20 seconds, that would be a major issue. As for ride, you guys complain of lousy rides. I hate soft suspension. I like feeling connected to the road, which would bring me to a firmer car in almost every circumstance.
 
Two things...

OMFG that sounds wicked.... WVREOOWWMMpoppoppop...VREOOOWWMMpoppoppop...

Moar. MOAR MOAR MOAR! Owned.

Second, it's supposed to look like a slightly absurd, but generally normal 3 series...that's the point, so most people go "oh, it's just another bimmer..." til someone puts their foot in it's ass and you hear that sound.
 
^ Its certainly not the best-sounding V8 I've ever heard, but that is just my opinion. As noted before in this thread, I'll take the soundtrack of a small-block (be it a Chevy, Ford, or Chrysler (Dodge)) over the M3.

If the soundtracks were like alcohol, the M3 would certainly be a kind of Sekt, while the American soundtracks I like would be a clean and simple Tennessee Whiskey.

Different strokes for different folks, and I'll take the hard stuff.
 


A V8 is "breaking with tradition"? Obviously they forgot about the E30 M3....

YSSMAN
...And that is only two of the "major" competitors...

- RS4
- RS5
- IS-F
- C63
- CLK63
- F-Type R
- CTS-V (yes... I know all about the 5-series stuff)
- GT500 (kinda)
- Challenger SRT-8 (kinda)
- Camaro SS (kinda)
- Commodore in various HSV versions (Pontiac G8 GXP too)
- Monaro (once they build it, kinda)

So in 10 years we've moved on from a dozen hot hatches making for an exciting magazine roundup, to a dozen V8, rear-engined sports cars. Thatsa nice....
 
So in 10 years we've moved on from a dozen hot hatches making for an exciting magazine roundup, to a dozen V8, rear-engined sports cars. Thatsa nice....

Um, all of those are front-engined....

Anyway, I like these V8 front engined cars. Hot hatches of course will be more appealing in Europe, but this is speed and quickness that Americans and Europeans alike can love. This battle should be very exciting.
 
A V8 is "breaking with tradition"? Obviously they forgot about the E30 M3....
They said "in the last 15 years..." They didn't forget about the E30 M3. They just ignored it, like pretty much anyone who isn't at least semi-familiar with BMW does.

So in 10 years we've moved on from a dozen hot hatches making for an exciting magazine roundup, to a dozen V8, rear-engined sports cars. Thatsa nice....
Um, all of those are front-engined....
He probably meant to say rear-wheel-drive, but even then, the RS4 and RS5 don't quite fit that mold, either. ;)
 
42008bmwm3conceptzz6.jpg


To me this looks a little 'under-wheeled', especially at the rear, even though this concept runs on the optional 19" wheels. It's going to look like its running on roller-skates on the standard 18"s.
 
To me this looks a little 'under-wheeled', especially at the rear, even though this concept runs on the optional 19" wheels. It's going to look like its running on roller-skates on the standard 18"s.


how do you know the standard is going to be 18s? the E46 had the standard as 18 while normal E46s can go only up to 18s as an option , The normal E92 can go up to 19s from teh factory , so the standard for the M version might be 19s and the optional might be 20s .
 
how do you know the standard is going to be 18s? the E46 had the standard as 18 while normal E46s can go only up to 18s as an option , The normal E92 can go up to 19s from teh factory , so the standard for the M version might be 19s and the optional might be 20s .

The latest copy of Evo magazine says that the concept wears the optional 19"s with the standard issues being 18"s. They might have got their facts wrong i suppose.
 
Well the only thing about it I don't like is the bonnet bulge. It's too high for my liking. I wonder how much E46 M3 prices will start to drop now....

*Wanders off to start argument with wife.
 
He probably meant to say rear-wheel-drive, but even then, the RS4 and RS5 don't quite fit that mold, either. ;)

I figured such. Just clarifying, or he wanted to say frond engine, rear drive and got the two mixed up.

As for the RS models, what could they be considered? There has to be a separate term for cars with the engine in front of the axle...

With the "underwheeledness," we may have an issue. Upon examination, it does look really akward. Maybe if they cut into the side of the car in back and put on 22s? Presenting the DUB3:sly:.
 
Anyway, I like these V8 front engined cars. Hot hatches of course will be more appealing in Europe, but this is speed and quickness that Americans and Europeans alike can love. This battle should be very exciting.

I think the hot hatch market is a total miss here. All this talk of "fuel frugality == patriotism" is bunk if no one acts on it. If there's ever a country that needs to return to small, fun cars....

They said "in the last 15 years..." They didn't forget about the E30 M3. They just ignored it, like pretty much anyone who isn't at least semi-familiar with BMW does.

Bah. Who listens to pointless dialog when there's a fantastic V8 to be heard.

:dunce:


Wolfe
He probably meant to say rear-wheel-drive, but even then, the RS4 and RS5 don't quite fit that mold, either. ;)

I did, and they don't. ;) But they'd be fun nonetheless.

http://img126.imageshack.us/img126/3073/42008bmwm3conceptzz6.jpg

To me this looks a little 'under-wheeled', especially at the rear, even though this concept runs on the optional 19" wheels. It's going to look like its running on roller-skates on the standard 18"s.

It looks that way because of the new trend in rear-half styling. As the rear axle moves forward, it gets caught under the C-pillar's downward slope. Since modern C-pillars are gi-normous, this creates a lot of body panel space above the wheel, giving the illusion of small wheels. This is prevalent on just about every post-2000 sedan I can think of, even those with larger rear wheels.

How do you fix it? One way is to make it a coupe shape (G35, CLS, etc.), but that doesn't always work (A5/S5). Another way is to make the rear wheels (and corresponding wheel arches) larger than the front, but that messes with the ride & handling, and usually for the worse. Yet another way is to move the rear wheel back, but that reduces trunk space and lessens the rear crash protection. I'm not sure if this is really a design trend or if it's safety-influenced, but I hate it. It's uglifying just about every nice sedan on the market.
 
I think the hot hatch market is a total miss here. All this talk of "fuel frugality == patriotism" is bunk if no one acts on it. If there's ever a country that needs to return to small, fun cars....

In Europe? They have the darn things, don't they? And there are a bunch on the market, so hot hatches must be a trend across the pond. In the US? No dice. Gas prices and overcrowdedness have a long gway to go before that happens. I think our version of this battle is this small car, V8 business, and it will go on for awhile.

It looks that way because of the new trend in rear-half styling. As the rear axle moves forward, it gets caught under the C-pillar's downward slope. Since modern C-pillars are gi-normous, this creates a lot of body panel space above the wheel, giving the illusion of small wheels. This is prevalent on just about every post-2000 sedan I can think of, even those with larger rear wheels.

How do you fix it? One way is to make it a coupe shape (G35, CLS, etc.), but that doesn't always work (A5/S5). Another way is to make the rear wheels (and corresponding wheel arches) larger than the front, but that messes with the ride & handling, and usually for the worse. Yet another way is to move the rear wheel back, but that reduces trunk space and lessens the rear crash protection. I'm not sure if this is really a design trend or if it's safety-influenced, but I hate it. It's uglifying just about every nice sedan on the market.

So you think the only logical solution would be to slim down the C pillars? What if the beltline was lower? I wonder what effect that would have.... Would it totally screw up the proportions? I'm also wondering if that overhang has something to do with the issue. It seems that placing a wheel closer to the middle causes problems.
 
As for the RS models, what could they be considered? There has to be a separate term for cars with the engine in front of the axle.
Cars with the engine infront of the front axel are front engined, cars with the engine between the front and rear axel are mid-engined, though if the engine is between the axels but infront of the driver, people tend to call it front engined anyway. though a few use the term, front-mid engined.
 
In Europe? They have the darn things, don't they? And there are a bunch on the market, so hot hatches must be a trend across the pond. In the US? No dice. Gas prices and overcrowdedness have a long gway to go before that happens. I think our version of this battle is this small car, V8 business, and it will go on for awhile.

I think there's a fair amount of hot hatches here (GTI/R32, Cooper S Works, Mazda3 MPS), but, GTI aside, they sell in relatively low numbers and aren't treated with nearly the same respect as a V8, rear-drive sedan/coupe is. For some reason, few here see the validity of a sporty compact car. Size has always had a strong pull for American consumers, although I've never quite connected with that. I much prefer quality to quantity.


philly cheese
So you think the only logical solution would be to slim down the C pillars? What if the beltline was lower? I wonder what effect that would have.... Would it totally screw up the proportions? I'm also wondering if that overhang has something to do with the issue. It seems that placing a wheel closer to the middle causes problems.

The rear overhang is a result of the rear wheels moving forward (thus more trunk space). In general, modern cars have horrific visibility compared to their ancestors. Observe the M3's evolution:

E30:
140584-1.jpg


E36:
143148-1.jpg


E46:
2005_bmw_m3_manu_01.jpg


E92:
img03.jpg


At first glance, things pretty much look the same. The rear wheel is directly under the hofmeister kink, and everything else is pretty much laid out the same way. However, the angle of the rear (and front) windscreens gets increasingly lower, meaning there's more bodywork obstructing the view from inside the car, and more bodywork "over" the rear wheel. At the same time, the windowline gets increasingly higher making it look like an old man with his pants pulled up too high.

These changes occur for a number of reasons. A higher waistline and thicker pillars mean more bodywork can protect the occupants. Lower windscreens increase aerodynamics, and add to the sleek, coupe-ish look. There's also the rising beltline/windowline, which is supposed to give the effect of motion, agression, or speed (depending on which marketing fluffhead you speak to). That rising line, however, has done nothing but make the rear wheel look smaller, since it creates an inequality of the wheels' relative spatial occupancy front-to-back. Kinda like this:

Ames.jpg


...only not so exaggerated, and without the balloons. It probably comes from drag racers or Can-Am cars, where the rear wheels were much larger, causing the entire car to be tilted up from the rear. My solution? Stop trying so hard to make cars seem like they're something they're not. The best-looking designs over the past 100 years have had nothing to do with "visual aggression" or "moving 100MPH while standing still". A Miura looks like it really could go fast, whereas the E92 M3 looks like it will be a bit faster than a 335i.
 
The latest copy of Evo magazine says that the concept wears the optional 19"s with the standard issues being 18"s. They might have got their facts wrong i suppose.

I've just re-read the article and it would seem that i've totally imagined the standard fit 18" wheels thing up :boggled: - i don't know where the hell i plucked that nugget of info from :odd:
 
The BMW M5 is a car I wouldn't like to buy. In the Car And Driver magazine, it says it has terrible handeling! The racecar version of it is better. 👍

Strange as most other pieces on the M5 have praised its handling for a car of its size and weight.

I'm also unaware of any M5 race car, I have seen one used as a pace car a number of times (Formula BMW races supporting BTCC events), but that was a standard car. Are you sure you don't mean the M3 GTR?

Regards

Scaff
 
The problem with the wheel arches seems to me is caused by the car being too low and that the flared arches don't merge gradually enough at the front and back of the car.
 
No. Here is a pic of it.

Errr, what daan said, its quite obviously a photoshoped picture and hardly a convincing one at that.

Show me proof of a real M5 race car, such as details of which team raced it, what series it raced in, at which tracks and its placing in a few races and I would be quite happy to admit I'm wrong.

Scaff
 
Errr, what daan said, its quite obviously a photoshoped picture and hardly a convincing one at that.

Show me proof of a real M5 race car, such as details of which team raced it, what series it raced in, at which tracks and its placing in a few races and I would be quite happy to admit I'm wrong.

Scaff

It isn't much on TV, but on Motor Trend there is a whole lot of pics. It doesn't race for a series. When will you guys learn the real cars out there? :rolleyes:
 
Errr, you do realise that's made up. To my knowledge, there are no M5 racing cars.

What are you talking about? Of course the car is real; it has a full leather interior and everything.
 
I didn't make it up! I got it from the BMW website! Then I edited it and put it somewhere else. This is a made up one!

sti-m5.jpg
No way on earth did that first picture you posted come from an official BMW site, I've worked closely with BMW both in the UK and Germany and something of that low quality would ever come from any manufacturer and certainly not BMW. I'd love to have the exact link of the location on this BMW website.



Here is another real one.

7450_01t.jpg

And if we follow the link to the site that picture comes from we get this...

http://www.hpiracing.com/

...a website for R/C cars, in fact here's a direct link to the very bodyshell shown in that tiny picture.

http://www.hpi-europe.com/piw.php?lang=en&partNo=7450

For a 1/10 scale R/C car.

It isn't much on TV, but on Motor Trend there is a whole lot of pics. It doesn't race for a series. When will you guys learn the real cars out there? :rolleyes:
So now its a race car that doesn't race in a series (so how exactly is it a race car), you have yet to actually prove its existence. For example, would you care to share the links to the pictures on Motor Trend, because a quick search of the site using "BMW M5 Race" provides only links to the road car.


As for "learn the real cars out there? :rolleyes:", you may want to get to know a few of us before questioning our knowledge of all things automotive.


Regards

Scaff
 
It isn't much on TV, but on Motor Trend there is a whole lot of pics. It doesn't race for a series. When will you guys learn the real cars out there? :rolleyes:

When will you start telling the truth instead of BSing everyone here? :rolleyes:
 

Latest Posts

Back