2008 Chinese Grand Prix

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mustang245
I expect Brazil to be more exciting. Far more so than Shanghai. I counted on the two Ferrari's to take the fight to Lewis this season while Alonso couldn't. They didn't. Lewis Hamilton, World Champion... I'll be surprised if he can get his helmet on if (when) he wins.
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It'll be tough putting a Gold lined helmet on won't it?

I watched the race highlights and there were a few far better over takes than we tend to see in a normal GP, but most were coming down to turn 1.

And the Ferrari team orders point is nul and void. Is it difficult to believe that Raikonen knew full well that Massa was the only hope for competing for the title and did the "team" thing of letting him get by. While drivers might not be able to collaborate as much as I'd like personally (they are a team after all) I don't see how anyone could assume Raikonen even needed to wat for orders on the matter.
 
ExigeEvan
And the Ferrari team orders point is nul and void. Is it difficult to believe that Raikonen knew full well that Massa was the only hope for competing for the title and did the "team" thing of letting him get by.
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Why is it a nul and void point and why is it difficult to believe?

I honestly don't get what you are trying to say here.


ExigeEvan
While drivers might not be able to collaborate as much as I'd like personally (they are a team after all)
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Please no, when team orders were allowed and used blatantly (and not just in F1) you ended up with situations that totally ruined races.


ExigeEvan
I don't see how anyone could assume Raikonen even needed to wat for orders on the matter.
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I'm not assuming that he waited for an order at all, given the Ferrari machinery I'm personally certain that he was told before the race that should a situation such as this arise he was to give the place to Massa.

To not do so would be a very strange thing for Ferrari to do and Raikonen's manner in the press conference pretty much backs that.

Team orders may not be allowed to be given, and certainly to do so publicly would be insane, but they are still given. Ferrari 9as they should) want both titles tjis year, Massi finishing ahead of Kimi gives them the best chance of doing so and a good team principal is not going to 'hope' that Kimi understands that.


Regards

Scaff
 
Hell, I don't think Ferrari would have needed to tell him. Sure, Raikkonen would go for the win, but knowing he was no longer a title contender and that Massa was, he'd naturally want his team to do well and so move over. But if team orders were involved, I don't see it as being a bad thing. Sure, it was disgusting when Coulthard moved over or Hakkinen at Albert Park that one time, or when Barichello did it for Schumacher, but in this case, it's keeping the championship alive.

Other than that, it was a pretty boring race, though I only had the opportunity to watch in Live Timing. As I didn't see the start, I can't tell what happened, but I think Bourdais' drive might have been enough to at least offer a second season in the sport, if not with Toro Rosso. He had pretty good pace in there and made up quite a few positions, but I'm still afraid it may be too little, too late.
 
Do you race?
Hell, I don't think Ferrari would have needed to tell him. Sure, Raikkonen would go for the win, but knowing he was no longer a title contender and that Massa was, he'd naturally want his team to do well and so move over. But if team orders were involved, I don't see it as being a bad thing. Sure, it was disgusting when Coulthard moved over or Hakkinen at Albert Park that one time, or when Barichello did it for Schumacher, but in this case, it's keeping the championship alive.
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I don't disagree that Raikkonen needed to be told, however given the nature of the team (and most teams for that matter) I honestly believe that he would have been told or at the very least gently reminded.

The other part of your post is one of the problems that exist is that regulations should not be OK in some circumstances and not in others. Team Orders are either allowed or they are not, its inconsistency with the application of the regs that has caused so many problems during the course of this season.

I do however also believe that all the regulation regarding Team Orders does is stop the most obvious and blatant of actions, and will never (short of monitoring every single driver / team conversation) be truly enforceable.


Regards

Scaff
 
JohnBM01
John's Debate! - Defending Home Turf
What do you think is the best drive ever put forth by an F1 driver in that driver's home track, home country, or home Grand Prix? What about the worst drive ever put together by an F1 driver returning to his/her home country or home track?[/I]
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Mansell in the Williams at Silverstone was pretty special. I can't remember the year but he was 25 seconds down with about the same laps to go to catch his team mate and broke the lap record numerous times and caught him up and dummied him down hanger straight to take the lead.

Edit:
Have a video:


'By lap 45 the gap, between Mansell and Piquet was just over 20 seconds with Mansell lapping around 2 seconds a lap faster than Nelson. The Brazilian's tyres were shot and Nigel was moving with greater urgency. He may have been a long way down behind a driver with two world championships under his belt but that was not going to stop Nigel. By lap 53 the gap was 9.6 seconds, on lap 60 it was down to 1.6 seconds and then came lap 60 and the move of the decade.

Just 0.5 seconds split the pair as they approached Stowe. Mansell feinted left and Piquet sought to block the move. He had been sold a dummy and Nigel was already pointing to the inside. He darted through and beat Piquet by almost two seconds, sent the crowds delirious. '
 
JohnBM01
To pass the time, I've put together a little debate. I'm not trying to insinuate something, but here's the question:

John's Debate! - Defending Home Turf
What do you think is the best drive ever put forth by an F1 driver in that driver's home track, home country, or home Grand Prix? What about the worst drive ever put together by an F1 driver returning to his/her home country or home track?[/I]
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Easy, René Arnoux, Dijon, 1979. Although he didn't win, he had arguably the best battle in F1 history ever with Gilles Villeneuve:
#

As for the worst....thats a difficult one, there have been many, many bad drivers who have driven at their home GPs....Pedro Lamy at Estoril in 1993, 1995 and 1996. Mark Webber at pretty much every Australian GP except 2002 and 2005. The list goes on, there are plenty of awful home drives.
 
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The question (concerning the Chinese race) I'm currently asking myself is: if McLaren had done the swap in positions for the championship, would the FIA impose a penalty?
 
Only_in_f1
Jean Pierre Jabouille won that race. French car, French driver, French track.
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Indeed, but he didn't have the awesome battle with Gilles did he? ;) The question was the best drives, not the best wins.

the Interceptor
The question (concerning the Chinese race) I'm currently asking myself is: if McLaren had done the swap in positions for the championship, would the FIA impose a penalty?
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Probably not, although I would say that its not beyond the FIA to make rediculous decisions, I think thats a bit too out there, even for them.
 
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Damn, I just had to go out after the F1 race. Now I can't comment on anything....... 👎

Just to keep it short, that was an amazing drive by Hamilton. Surely showed how much he has changed since last year. :p Massa was probably happy with that 2nd place, and is now 7 points behind Hamilton going into the final race in Brazil. 👍

Although now Kubica has not a chance to challenge for the title. :(
 
the Interceptor
The question (concerning the Chinese race) I'm currently asking myself is: if McLaren had done the swap in positions for the championship, would the FIA impose a penalty?
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We'll never know. If they do in Brazil then the can give a penalty due to what happend today.


Ardius
Indeed, but he didn't have the awesome battle with Gilles did he? ;) The question was the best drives, not the best wins.
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But he didn't put a foot wrong all race and pressure was on him.
 
I do hate to say it, but Hamitlon is probably going to win overall. If Massa is to take the title, he's going to need some results to really go his way; Hamilton cannot finish higher than about sixth. He'll need to win and have four drivers between him and Hamitlon, and he can probably only count on Raikkonen and Alonso to run intereference, and that's assuming they can keep Hamilton at bay. Heidfeld and Kubica might prove to be the leverage Massa needs, but a lot depends on McLaren's pace. Massa is going to have to go balls-to-the-wall at Interlagos; there's no two ways about it. I hope we have a good clean race; I wouldn't put it past Alonso to aid Massa by having a suspension failure when Hamilton is nearby.
 
Only_in_f1
But he didn't put a foot wrong all race and pressure was on him.
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Well, lets just leave it at they were both good home drives, shall we?
I suppose you can't get any more patriotic than a french driver in a french car, with a french engine, french fuel and french tyres winning the french grand prix.
 
the Interceptor
The question (concerning the Chinese race) I'm currently asking myself is: if McLaren had done the swap in positions for the championship, would the FIA impose a penalty?
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Only if they could prove that one driver deliberately let the other pass.
 
PeterJB
Only if they could prove that one driver deliberately let the other pass and were told to do so by the team.
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Important part added. One driver letting any other driver past is fine, even if it's his teammate. But the team cannot tell them to do it. Or cannot let anyone find out they've told them to do it.
 
Famine
Important part added. One driver letting any other driver past is fine, even if it's his teammate. But the team cannot tell them to do it. Or cannot let anyone find out they've told them to do it.
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Mine was meant be kind of jokey, since the Stewards hate McLaren.
 
If anything was said to Kimi it was probably in a meeting before the race but nothing should need to be said, While Kimi surely does not want Massa to win the championship he knows what needs to be done.

That is no more underhanded or against the rules than Heikki parking the McLaren from 17th place so he can get a fresh engine at the next race with no penalty!
 
TheMoose
If anything was said to Kimi it was probably in a meeting before the race but nothing should need to be said, While Kimi surely does not want Massa to win the championship he knows what needs to be done.

That is no more underhanded or against the rules than Heikki parking the McLaren from 17th place so he can get a fresh engine at the next race with no penalty!
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Clearly you missed the smoking brakes he was using all race.....
 
There was smoke coming out of his right front wheel on the starting grid.
 
PeterJB
Mine was meant be kind of jokey, since the Stewards hate McLaren.
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Well, they don't need to rely on existing rules to punish McLaren. They can invent one after they decided to punish them for... something.
 
JohnBM01
John's Debate! - Defending Home Turf
What do you think is the best drive ever put forth by an F1 driver in that driver's home track, home country, or home Grand Prix? What about the worst drive ever put together by an F1 driver returning to his/her home country or home track?[/I]
Click to expand...
John, please stop these bits. They just take the thread off topic.

By all means, ask them in their own thread, but don't take the race thread off track. (pun intended...)
 
Do you race?
I do hate to say it, but Hamitlon is probably going to win overall. If Massa is to take the title, he's going to need some results to really go his way; Hamilton cannot finish higher than about sixth. He'll need to win and have four drivers between him and Hamitlon, and he can probably only count on Raikkonen and Alonso to run intereference, and that's assuming they can keep Hamilton at bay. Heidfeld and Kubica might prove to be the leverage Massa needs, but a lot depends on McLaren's pace. Massa is going to have to go balls-to-the-wall at Interlagos; there's no two ways about it. I hope we have a good clean race; I wouldn't put it past Alonso to aid Massa by having a suspension failure when Hamilton is nearby.
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your right about that but wasn't that the same exact attitude everyone was having last year about Raikkonen and Hamilton? and seeing as Massa does extraordinary at Interlagos, he should have better odds at what happened last year then even Raikkonen did. im almost certain Massa will finish first at Interlagos the question is, will Hamilton have another mechanical problem like last year and fall behind for a bit or are Raikkonen and Alonso going to have to do ALOT of blocking and letting everyone BUT Hamilton go by.
 
Famine
Well, they don't need to rely on existing rules to punish McLaren. They can invent one after they decided to punish them for... something.
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LAWL!...So true. Hamilton should have wrapped up the Driver's title by now...if it weren't for "them"...
 
Kimi not keeping a straight face during the post race interview had me laughing like mad. Very, very funny. We actually got to the see the man laugh.
 
If I was Kimi, I probably would have fallen off the chair or spilled my drink when Massa was describing that moment.


I loved Hobbs' commentary. And who said Massa can't pass...
 

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