2008 Chinese Grand Prix

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Despite that... there's no rule in F1 saying that you shouldn't back off and let your team-mate past. :lol: Though I would rather have Felipe Massa earn that place than have Kimi just slow down to a near-stop and let him catch up over the last few laps... that's the sad part. FM just ain't in the chase in this race. KR was, till he got hung up on traffic.
 
Good for the boy! He's now 7 points ahead again...

Next round will be a damn catfight... Lewis just needs 4 points to win the championship... expect murder, mayhem and screams of "drive-through penalty fer yew, yew bastich!" in the last race at Interlagos... I'll be watching that one keenly... :lol:
 
niky
Despite that... there's no rule in F1 saying that you shouldn't back off and let your team-mate past. :lol: Though I would rather have Felipe Massa earn that place than have Kimi just slow down to a near-stop and let him catch up over the last few laps... that's the sad part. FM just ain't in the chase in this race. KR was, till he got hung up on traffic.
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You know it was team orders, I know it was team orders, anyone who doubts it was team orders is either in denial or very naive. Its however impossible to prove, so we live with it and move on.

It will at least make Brazil a very interesting weekend, and it was good to see that LH and Massa can handle the pressure and don't crack, despite the predictions of many on here.


Regards

Scaff
 
I'm surprised that both of those two didn't do a dirty here and lose it... although Lewis had just one worrying squiggle that probably showed how hard he was pushing in those first few corners each lap to nab laptimes that were faster than most qualifying times...

I'm just disappointed at Massa's complete lack of pace. If he'd been on the ball in this race, KR wouldn't have had to slowed down for him... Massa would have been able to legitimately pass him in the pits.

I'm impressed with that Renault... but who knows how much of that is the car and how much the driver? (with Piquet now on pace)... I wish we could have a picture of Fernando winking at the Ferrari pits as he passes them... :lol:

But honestly, with the Renault package finally coming together, it may not make sense for Alonso to jump ship again.
 
Boring processional race.

Good composure from Hamilton when he needed it.

Massa shows why he should never be a world champion, he’ll be brilliant in Brazil though. That's his problem. Great in one race, rubbish in another.

Now to see if the Stewards can put their foot in it again!
 
Cultlife
Love how Massa awkwardly fumbled around the issue of Team Orders... and Kimi's just pretty much up front about it.
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Massa should have got an oscar for that press conference. Anyone who hadn't seen the race would have been forgiven for thinking he actually beat kimi.

Priceless! :lol:
 
What are the actual rules on team orders? Anyone willing to find them?

I thought it was a very poor race in terms of action, but Lewis was faultless. Fantastic drive.
 
Do you race?
I meant a realistic one; Rosberg will be remaining at Team Willy. And Bourdais? I'd be surprised if he can land something in the midfield, much less McLaren ...
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Eh, well Rosberg seems like a candidate that McLaren might be interested in, but yeah, he's sticking with Williams for a year or two more.
Sadly, after this race, I have to agree with you about Bourdais......I said it would be difficult to pass Trulli, but I didn't mean it like that.
Watching the replay of turn 1/2 (whatever you call the long corner, lol), it was more of a normal racing incident really, maybe Bourdais should have backed off, maybe Trulli should have watched his inside.

Still, Bourdais' chances for a seat next year look grim, with two 7th places and a mere 4 points in a championship that has featured some very varied classifications.....beating Button, the Force India's and Super Aguri's sounds pathetic.

Anyway, shame that Kubica couldn't make something (in qualifying and race), but looking at how well Hamilton dominated, he didn't have much chance anyway.

I think I'll throw down my bet for the championship being Hamilton.
 
Scaff
Ahhhm - Ferrari = Team Orders?


Scaff
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Just like you said; You know, I know, we know. But ofcourse these things are done secretly within the team, so we'll never be able to proove them. However, the same situation has been going on at Mclaren all season long now. Those aren't team orders, but Heikki's been placed as the second driver from day 1, getting the worse strategies and the slower car. Now, you cannot blame Heikki form being a bad driver, after his first season in a Renault, you don't just move to Mclaren, this lad knows how to drive an F1 car. Now, I know this is the way F1 has been going on for a long time now, and it's something typical for Mclaren in my opinion (Coulthard-Hakkinen era) but as long as Hamilton drives for Mclaren and is ranked as a first driver, Heikki will never be able to show us his true speed, which in secretly, we know he has to become a champion...


On that, I'll go with Ardius and say that Hamilton is going to clinch it. If only Hamilton drove the whole season as he did today, the Ferraris would never have stood a chance...
 
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Sureshot
What are the actual rules on team orders? Anyone willing to find them?
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As far as I'm aware as long as you don't talk about it it's okay. I'm pretty sure theres an obscure, non-existent (at this time) rule that would have come into play had the shoe been on the other foot and Heiki had yielded to Lewis under the same circumstance, something around a 20 point penalty or having to race with no wheels at brazil.
 
FIA.com

Article 39.1 of the 2008 Formula One Sporting Regulations: “Team orders which interfere with a race result are prohibited.”

If no one in the Ferrari team said anything to Kimi over the radio then no rule was broken.
 
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No way, I think Kovalainen is over-rated as a driver. He was hired by McLaren specifically because he is not a Fernando Alonso.
He has shown some good speed at times...but he drops back down the field way too much. You can't blame it entirely on fuel strategies.

I think, taking into consideration what McLaren are looking for with a teammate for Hamilton right now, that Kovalainen does it well enough. His last 2 races have been retirements not of his doing, if he had finished both, he would have allowed McLaren to secure the constructors a lot easier, so I don't think McLaren are blaming him for any of it.
But, on the other hand, he hasn't been spectacular this season.
 
Tired Tyres
FIA.com

Article 39.1 of the 2008 Formula One Sporting Regulations: “Team orders which interfere with a race result are prohibited.”

If no one in the Ferrari team said anything to Kimi over the radio then no rule was broken.
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Right regulation, slightly incorrect interpretation.

The rule has still been broken if its discussed at all, not just over the radio. Discussing team orders in private doesn't make it legal, it just makes it impossible to prove.


Regards

Scaff
 
Bram Turismo
Alonso's car is nowhere near the speed of either the Ferraris or the Mclarens. His two victories were thanks to the stupidity of these two teams. I will agree that the Renault has become a seriously fast car though, the third fastest car, but it still doesn't come close to the biggest two...
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Come now, Bram... Alonso was nose to nose with Kovalienen's McLaren on the back straight to take back P4. He then maintained the pace of the Ferrari's, even surpassing them at moments through the sectors. However, I feel he respectfully refrained from passing either...
 
Orders which come from the team and determine the finishing order of their drivers are prohibited. The drivers can, however, choose to let one another past if they wish.
 
mustang245
Come now, Bram... Alonso was nose to nose with Kovalienen's McLaren on the back straight to take back P4. He then maintained the pace of the Ferrari's, even surpassing them at moments through the sectors. However, I feel he respectfully refrained from passing either...
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Despite what I just said about Kov, he did have serious brake issues this race, it's not surprising Alonso took him so easily.
Though, the R28 is up there with the F1.08 and TF108 now I think.
 
mustang245
Come now, Bram... Alonso was nose to nose with Kovalienen's McLaren on the back straight to take back P4. He then maintained the pace of the Ferrari's, even surpassing them at moments through the sectors. However, I feel he respectfully refrained from passing either...
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To be honest, I haven't seen Alonso in Ferraris neighbourhood today, and the fact that Alonso was threatning Heikki as due to the fact, and I still hold this opinion, that Heikki is purely driving under Lewis, no perfect fuel strategy, no perfect setup, that all goes to Lewis. I will admit though, that I want to see Alonso at Ferrari, that would be his perfect team. However, seeing to circumstances for next season, we can't really tell who'll go for the title next year. Who knows, we may just see a finishing Sutil with 15 seconds over Nakajima ;)


Oh man, I can't wait untill the '09 season!


Ardius
Despite what I just said about Kov, he did have serious brake issues this race, it's not surprising Alonso took him so easily.
Though, the R28 is up there with the F1.08 and TF108 now I think.
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The R28 has been on par with the TF108 pretty much all season long now, and the R28 came on par with the F1.08 after the second half of the season. Right now, since the last three races, the R28 is pretty much far ahead of the F1.08
 
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Bram Turismo
Heikki is purely driving under Lewis, no perfect fuel strategy, no perfect setup, that all goes to Lewis.
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I can buy the fact that the team are putting more resources towards Lewis. I can’t buy the fact that they’re neglecting Heikki to the point that he can’t challenge the Ferrari’s (or Alonso) and has barely scored half of Lewis’s total point score so far. At some point the blame has to fall on Heikki’s shoulders.
 
Blake
I can buy the fact that the team are putting more resources towards Lewis. I can’t buy the fact that they’re neglecting Heikki to the point that he can’t challenge the Ferrari’s (or Alonso) and has barely scored half of Lewis’s total point score so far. At some point the blame has to fall on Heikki’s shoulders.
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True. Well, the only thing I can say in his defence is that it's his first season with a major team, with a teammate who's contending for the title... Oh well, I guess next year will reveal more about his future?
 
Tired Tyres
Boring processional race.

Good composure from Hamilton when he needed it.

Massa shows why he should never be a world champion, he?ll be brilliant in Brazil though. That's his problem. Great in one race, rubbish in another.

Now to see if the Stewards can put their foot in it again!
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Nice summary, I watched past lap 10 just to bear witness. I can't wait for '09 already, as this year has been farsical, in my opinion. I know now, realistically, Hamilton will nab the WDC.:(
 
mustang245
Nice summary, I watched past lap 10 just to bear witness. I can't wait for '09 already, as this year has been farsical, in my opinion. I know now, realistically, Hamilton will nab the WDC.:(
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Perhaps farsical in the sense of the FIA nonsense...but a great season in respect to the action we have had....I mean, TORO ROSSO WON A RACE. Almost all of the drivers had their moments of glory, and almost all of the teams too.

We very almost had every team score points too...and it was a very good exhange between the championship leaders, no one dominated this season and no one team has been superior, though I think most will say that overall McLaren were strongest, it has not been as clear as years past. Lots of wet races and general good racing.

I think 2009 will see the field spread out a lot more, the KERS system will see many teams fall behind and some go far ahead I think. With such big rule changes, I doubt we will see as much great racing as we did this year
 
Surprise, surprise. Sutil's tenth retirement of the season! If it wasn't for Monaco he probably wouldn't have been racing for those minuscule 15 laps!
 
I expect Brazil to be more exciting. Far more so than Shanghai. I counted on the two Ferrari's to take the fight to Lewis this season while Alonso couldn't. They didn't. Lewis Hamilton, World Champion... I'll be surprised if he can get his helmet on if (when) he wins.
 
Hearing about helping others to a title, who should REALLY be world champion... someone's got to step in and restore some order around F1. Making the World Championship race sound like a political race. Part of me thinks that maybe Felipe Maasa wanted to bide his time and unload in his home country to push Hamilton to the limit and win the title. Either a silver car driver wins the title, or a red Ferrari driver wins the title. My Hamilton pick was money.



To pass the time, I've put together a little debate. I'm not trying to insinuate something, but here's the question:

John's Debate! - Defending Home Turf
What do you think is the best drive ever put forth by an F1 driver in that driver's home track, home country, or home Grand Prix? What about the worst drive ever put together by an F1 driver returning to his/her home country or home track?[/I]
 
JohnBM01
To pass the time, I've put together a little debate. I'm not trying to insinuate something, but here's the question:

John's Debate! - Defending Home Turf
What do you think is the best drive ever put forth by an F1 driver in that driver's home track, home country, or home Grand Prix? What about the worst drive ever put together by an F1 driver returning to his/her home country or home track?[/i]
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Markus Winkelhock at the '07 European GP is a notable one, but only because he thought it would rain.
 
Durh... Hamilton at Silverstone... lapping nearly the entire field and making it look like he wasn't even trying.

I'd say Alonso's results are half having a car that's clearly in the fast half of the field, for once, and having the balls to use it. He was safely within the four fastest all race... that would have been patently unbelievable four races ago.

McLaren not supporting Hekki? Why? So that they can lose the constructor's championship they so dearly want to win to give ol' Bernie a black eye? If Hekki had qualified second, as it seemed he was capable off, McLaren would have more points overall than Ferarri and Massa would have two less points. To say that they're purposely sandbagging the boy defies logic... besides... Hekki's eventual retirement pointed at a more mundane reason for his lack of pace.
 

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