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How much of Massa's "problem" was down to them trying to get him out of the pit quickly so they could service Kimi was was waiting in line behind him?
2008 Singapore GP.
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ROAD_DOGG33J
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I don't think it's safe to say that. It's like saying Alonso would win the championship if he was still at McLaren. It could be possible, but everything would be changed.
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Well, I wasn't focusing on his start, but on how Alonso overlapped the entire field (I don't remember if he got to catch the 2nd and 3rd drivers twice) by the time his team screwed up the whole race.
Now, sadly, there's no way to make a comparison. No Michelin, no TC, no Schumacher in the track anymore. But Hamilton is gonna have to drive from 16th to 1st in five laps, go at least two seconds per lap faster than the rest in an average car (as average as the Renault was compared to MSC's Ferrari) and really own it in rain to make me stand corrected. He's got three more years to do it.
While I agree that Alonso is a stellar driver and his performance at Hungaroring 2006 is comparable to say Senna at Donington in '93, you also can't say that the Renault was an "average" car. The Renault was the best car in 2006. It was quick (as proven by Fisi's in Malaysia, if Fisi can win the race, then it IS a quick car), and also extremely reliable.
Hamilton looks to be very good in the wet as well. I do however also think that he is extremely lucky. When the rain came at Spa, I could not believe that they didn't send Kimi and Massa in for rain tyres. I thought Barichello proved to all the teams at silverstone that even with a 30 second pit stop, if it rains, rain tyres will make up like 30 seconds per lap, so it was worth it even with 2 laps to go. They're supposed to have accurate weather forecasting, so there's no excuse for not knowing it would pour.
Note: I'm not trying to make any excuses for Raikkonen or Massa, i'm just pointing out that ferrari was dumb on that ocassion (as was McLaren really).
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To be fair on McLaren, Hamilton was still driving fast laps akin to Barrichello's at Silverstone even though he was on intermediates, so it made sense that they just left him out at Spa.
But, most drivers in the top 8 positions wouldn't want to risk it anyway, what you see usually is just the drivers behind have nothing to lose and go with the wet tyres just as a last ditch effort.
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This is true, but these guys surely should KNOW that heavy rain is coming right. Common sense would say that they should have spotters all over the track to tell them how much rain is pouring down, but I guess they don't. All I'm saying is that for teams with so much money, they should have weather equipment to tell them if the rain is heavy for full wets (which it was during last 2 laps, as shown by Heidfeld). Anyway, this is a bit off topic now since this is the Singapore thread.
i congratulate alonso for winning, but I do think he was pretty lucky for it. He did however make the most out of his luck which is what really counts. It's annoying what happened to Massa, that's some REALLY bad luck, just like he DNF'd at Hungaroring. I feel bad for him.
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Well, apparently McLaren had a technician drive to the other side of the track with a mobile phone to tell them if and when rain had arrived there, lol.
They do have weather forecasts, but it probably told them that rain was coming for the last few laps but they can't always have accurate data, so they were probably on the fence of whether to go for wets or not.
However, at Silverstone it made no sense at all, because Barrichello made the switch what, 10 laps or more before the end? And he was very clearly making a huge difference.
I think Ferrari have proved their incompetence plenty this year though, its almost nostalgic,
I agree Alonso lucked into this win, but he did deserve it after a long season of non-stop hard driving and he was performing great at Singapore till Q2 of Qualifying.
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Yes he was doing well in qualifying, so I would agree that in a way it is deserved. Like I said, you can be lucky and also not make the most of it. Like the way Piquet was in 1st place at Hockenheim a while back, he coulda won the race, but he didn't show the pace. Alonso didn't have a ferrari or mclaren directly on his tail, but as soon as that 2nd safety car went off, he put quite the gap between him and Nico, and the Renault isn't exactly the best car.
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If there was one thing I would praise Alonso for is that he never gives up, even though he clearly has an awful car that will never be competitive, he's still driving it hard. Thats what a racing driver should do 👍
Piquet has done nothing to even show that he deserves to stay in F1 yet, he will surely be given the boot. Just like surely Sebastien Bourdais will be given another chance.
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Who else is putting money on this being the new Renault strategy for the rest of the year? Alonso pits, Piquet stacks it somewhere inconvenient for the marshals, Safety Car comes out, profit.
It's pretty genius.
It's pretty genius.
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True or not, that's all Piquet is worth for this season
ROAD_DOGG33J
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True or not, that's all Piquet is worth for this season
And 2nd at the German Grand Prix
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I don't think anyone including Piquet will put that 2nd down to him. He had a chance to win that but didn't. It was complete luck, and teams don't hire drivers for lucky results.
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Okay. I just got through watching the replay of the F1 Grand Prix of Singapore. My fears of a wildly wet race didn't come to fruition. It would have shaken up the race a great deal. It was as magical of an event as I thought it would be. I've seen as much as I could ranging from Maasa's tough luck to all the hard-fought racing action. This was a very cool event. I still wouldn't mind this being a Saturday night race rather than a Sunday night race. Maybe it's just me. And when I mean Saturday night, I mean Saturday night local time in Singapore.
So I can now look ahead to the Grand Prix of Japan on October 11th. I have to salute Kazuki Nakajima for getting points as well as Nico R. giving Toyota a 2nd place finish in Singapore.
[UPDATE] So you just saw the race too, RACECAR? I'm assuming F1 has been around since 1950. Wonder what F1 would do when they get to their 1,000th race...
So I can now look ahead to the Grand Prix of Japan on October 11th. I have to salute Kazuki Nakajima for getting points as well as Nico R. giving Toyota a 2nd place finish in Singapore.
[UPDATE] So you just saw the race too, RACECAR? I'm assuming F1 has been around since 1950. Wonder what F1 would do when they get to their 1,000th race...
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So if I counted Correctly, that would be almost 60 years?
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Well maybe because he had the fuel rig attach to his car while doing so?
Anyways, that should be the end of the FIA being known as Ferrari International Assistance or whatever bullcrap you guys call it. I'm getting sick of hearing the FIA being bias to other teams besides Ferrari.
I don't think so, 1 little penalty and you think that clears the suspicion. Only Ferrari would get a 'drive' through penalty for dangerous pit antics when other teams get a 'stop go' penalty for pulling into the pits to re-fuel when they had no other choice.
It will be interesting to see what Ferrari get upto to stop Lewis winning this year, especially now that all he has to do is finish 1 place behind Massa for each of the remaining races.
Hasn't GP racing been around since the 1920's? Not sure that it was with an offical body to start with but I'm sure some of the great tracks have been going since the 1st world war. Silverstone has been going itself since the 50's and it certainly isn't the oldest track by a long way. I'm sure that Brooklands used to hold F1 races before all the problems with banked tracks that meant they fell out of use. Anybody back me up here?
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I believe the 1st F1 world championship occured in 1950.
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Grand Prix racing has existed since 1906 but only became international from the '20's onwards when it became a (manufactures) championship, as opposed to a series of single events. It was only a drivers championship from 1950 onwards which is also when the 'Formula One' name was first used.
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I wasn't comparing the penalties for different incidents and I'm aware that it is a rule for re-fueling with the pit lane closed. What I'm saying is that typically Ferrari get a drive through penalty for dangerously leaving the pit box, complete with fuel hose, whilst other teams get a stop go penalty for re-fueling when they have to.
Does that make it any clearer?
TheCracker
Thanks, knew that it had been going for longer than the 50's but I didn't realise that it was over 100 years old. Wonder if it will last another 100 years?
Yes in many way the GP was like a circus, first of all: -
Ring master = Alonso = was in total control of the show
Circus band = Nelson Piquet = now he had a big hit
Lion tammer = Raikenn = Even when the shows nearly over don't lose control or it really is over and out
Clowns = Massa and Ferrari pit crew = Clown 1 driving the car with all the other clowns running after it
Trapize = Lewis = flew round gracefully but in the end played it safe as even in F1 there is no safety net
Audience = McLaren pit crew = how they laughed and cheered on the clowns
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